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CNN Sunday Morning

Car Bomb Explodes Northeast of Baghdad; Pakistan Arrests Several Suspected Terrorists

Aired August 22, 2004 - 07:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: From the CNN Center in Atlanta, this is CNN SUNDAY MORNING. It's August 22nd, 7:00 a.m. on the East coast, 4:00 a.m. way out West. Good morning, everybody, I'm Drew Griffin.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Betty Nguyen. Thanks so much for being with us today. Now in the news, a car bomb explodes in a town 45 miles northeast of Baghdad, killing two bodyguards. That blast, which went off about six hours ago, wounded five people, including the deputy governor of the province. It's the second time in two weeks that he has survived a car bomb attempt on his life.

In Pakistan, five arrests and counting. The information minister announces up to 10 people had been rounded up in a plot for a week long bombing situation in Islamabad. Among the targets, the U.S. embassy and the official residences of Pakistan's president. Authorities say all the suspects appear to have ties to al Qaeda.

Well, it's now officially disbanded, but the 9/11 Commission has released two staff reports that go beyond its so-called final report, which was issued last month. One report deals with how the hijackers got into the U.S. and remained here until the suicide attacks. The other deals primarily with the financing of terrorist attacks.

And the U.S. men's basketball team is still in the running in the Olympic games. The Americans have backed into the medal round, despite a two and two record. Their latest loss was to Lithuania, which is undefeated. Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

GRIFFIN: A Bush campaign adviser is the latest man overboard in the swift boat controversy. We'll take a look at the latest salvos fired by both sides in this ongoing debate about military service back in Vietnam.

An American swimmer didn't even have to get wet to enter the Olympic history books. We're going to get a full update live from Athens just ahead. And it's a buffalo wing and a prayer. Getting young people into a Hooters restaurant in Atlanta. Or is it really those skimpy outfits? We're going to explore that one just ahead on SUNDAY MORNING.

It is our top story this morning. Soft money and swift boats. More veterans are joining the burgeoning brouhaha over attack ads targeting John Kerry. One player, retired Air Force Colonel Ken Cordier, who appears in the latest commercial by the group calling itself Swift Boat Vets for Truth. One day after the Edwards release, Cordier quit as a veterans affairs adviser to the Bush re-election campaign. Kerry charges the Swift Boat Veterans group is lying about his Vietnam War record and coordinating with the Bush campaign. The Bush people deny any connection. And they say they didn't know Cordier had appeared in that ad.

NGUYEN: Wayne Lanehoffer was a gunner on another swift boat involved in an attack for which John Kerry was decorated. Now Lanehoffer told CNN quoting, "I was with Kerry when he won his silver star and as far as I'm concerned, he did right." Kerry is also getting support from another veteran, who was decorated after that 1969 firefight. Jill Dougherty reports now from Crawford, Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It happened thirty-five years ago on a river in Vietnam, a military mission led by Lieutenant John Kerry that won him a silver star. Now a newspaper editor who served with Kerry during that mission breaks three decades of silence.

William B. Rood of "The Chicago Tribune" in an article taking aim at the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, whose ads charge Kerry lied to win his medals. "Their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us," he writes. "It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there."

Polls show that ad is hurting Senator Kerry, especially among veterans. His campaign is demanding President Bush renounce it.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president needs to step to the plate, not through a spokesperson, himself, and say take down these ads.

DOUGHERTY: The Bush campaign won't take the bait. What you're seeing from the Kerry campaign is a series of false and flailing attacks, they charge. The president himself has been the targeted of $63 million in attack ads they claim. And Mr. Bush wants all soft money ads stopped.

The Kerry campaign also launched a new Internet ad, accusing Mr. Bush of remaining silent, as he did during soft money attack ads on his rival in the 2000 primaries. Senator John McCain.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Five United States senators, Vietnam veterans, heroes, some of them really incredible heroes, wrote George a letter and said "apologize." You should be ashamed.

DOUGHERTY: The Bush campaign fired back. "John Kerry's campaign is the only campaign that has questioned anybody's service during the Vietnam War."

But all this sniping, political experts say, hurts Senator Kerry more than President Bush. NORM ORNSTEIN, POLITICAL ANALYST: The more we focus our attention on attacks or counterattacks about what happened in Vietnam, the less the Kerry campaign and Kerry himself are able to frame the issues and the agenda the way they want to.

DOUGHERTY (on camera): That agenda, the economy and Iraq, all but buried this week in the crossfire.

Jill Dougherty, CNN, Crawford, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: More on this story coming up from Andrea Seabrook, an NPR correspondent who's been covering the Kerry campaign. That happens at 7:50 Eastern time right here on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

GRIFFIN: American workers could get some surprises tomorrow when a new law governing overtime goes into effect nationwide. Senator John Edwards, the Democratic vice presidential candidate, calls the new law a paid cut. And Edwards is blasting the Bush administration for endorsing it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president and the administration is now changing the rules on overtime pay, which amounts to a pay cut for millions of Americans. You know the last thing in the world we need to do at a time when people are having trouble paying their bills, you know, what's happening in America today, you all know this, you know, everybody says on the kitchen table you got two piles of bills. One is pay now, the other one is...

CROWD: Pay later.

EDWARDS: You don't want to say it. And the problem is everybody's struggling and trying to figure out how to make -- how (UNINTELLIGIBLE) need a pay cut? That's exactly what this is is cutting -- changing the overtime rules to eliminate peoples' overtime is a pay cut. We ought to raise the minimum wage in America. And we ought to get rid of these new overtime rules.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: What are the real facts? And will your overtime be affected by the new rules? The Bush administration says more people will be eligible for overtime under the rules. We'll have some examples in a report two hours from now during the 9:00 a.m. hour of CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

NGUYEN: New Jersey's embattled governor is defending his decision not to leave office immediately because of a sex scandal. McGreevey announced earlier this month he is leaving his post in November, after disclosing he is gay and had an extramarital affair with a man. Stepping down now would allow a special election to be held in November for the remaining 14 months of his term. In an op/ed piece in today's "New York Times," McGreevey says, "This decision was a difficult one and it was made with serious deliberation. While I see the merits of both sides of the debate, I stand firm with my decision. My obligation is to complete the important work already started and to achieve an effective transition of state government."

(WEATHER REPORT)

GRIFFIN: Well, it is Sunday morning. Biblical archaeology doesn't normally make news, but in Duffy Hills outside of Jerusalem, a tiny cave appears to hold intriguing clues to one of the bible's most intriguing figures.

CNN's Stan Grant went to see it for himself.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John the Baptist in all his glory. You can see...

STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a crude cave drawing, but it could be proof John the Baptist existed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...dies of a long nose. The mouth...

GRANT: To archaeologist Shimon Gibson, this cave is a doorway into the time of Jesus. For centuries, hidden near Jerusalem, close to where John was born, only now giving up its secrets. A place where the fiery new testament preacher carried out his cleansing rituals.

SHIMON GIBSON, ARCHAEOLOGIST: The evidence we have baked up to the late 1st century B.C. and early 1st century, A.D. to the time of John the Baptist himself. And this is quite astounding.

GRANT (on camera): According to archaeologists, this footprint represents an important part of the puzzle. It shows a break with Jewish tradition. It was here that followers would come and place their feet to be anointed with oil. They'd then undergo a new ritual, baptism performed by John.

GIBSON: Following that, people would then have immersed themselves in the water at the back of the cave. Then it would have come out and put on new robes. And it would have been purified. And then they would have set out from the cave.

GRANT: Who was John? The bible says a man who preached in the wilderness, depicted as a wild figure living on locusts clad in camel skin with matted hair. He's believed to have been the cousin of Jesus and baptized him.

Shimon Gibson imagines Jesus himself with John in this cave.

GIBSON: But this is speculation. But it's nice to think about it, the idea that down these steps, Jesus himself walked, and then performed baptism rites...

GRANT: But is all of this to be believed? There are no inscriptions, no written proof. The evidence Gibson concedes is circumstantial.

GIBSON: It would be wonderful if John the Baptist had sort of inscribed in the wall, I am John the Baptist and this is the place where I baptized. But you know, that's nature of archaeological discovery.

GRANT: Gibson is ready for the debate. For five years, he has kept his discovery a secret, since he was told about the cave by locals. The story of John, he says, is on the walls. Depictions of decapitated head and severed arm. All pointing, he says, to one of the great archaeological finds of the gospels, the cave of John the Baptist.

Stan Grant, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Very interesting.

NGUYEN: Yes.

GRIFFIN: Stay close, too. We're going to learn more about this archaeological discovery of biblical proportions near Jerusalem. We'll have a live report from Rome.

NGUYEN: Looking forward to that. Plus, the U.S. men's basketball team is holding onto medal hopes, but they're still not getting much love in Athens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bible study at Hooters? You got to be kidding me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: What would Jesus do? Hot wings, cold beer, and nearly naked waitresses gather around the good book?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Some other stories across America this Sunday morning. Two more emergency rooms in southern California shutting down. One in East Los Angeles, the other in Northridge. Administrators say they're treating large numbers of uninsured patients, including illegal immigrants. And it's racked up millions of dollars of debt. Four other area ERs have closed in the past two years there.

In Port St. John Florida, a funeral for Paul Johnson Junior. He was the engineer kidnapped and killed in June by militants in Saudi Arabia. He's a former resident of Florida. Johnson's remains will be cremated and then sent to Thailand. His widow if from there. In Hackensack, New Jersey, a propane tank explosion near the courthouse was, according to authorities there, a freak accident. The blast blew out windows in downtown businesses. Nobody hurt. Investigators say a defect in the tank led to that explosion.

And near the New Hampshire seacoast, one person injured critically when a powerful thunderstorm slammed into a campground. It knocked down trees and power lines as you can see. Nine other people were also hurt. Eight still in hospitals. It took about four hours to free some of those people trapped inside crushed campers. We'll have a full report. It's coming up later this hour.

NGUYEN: Just in case you've been counting, it is day nine of the 28th Olympiad in Greece with 27 medals it's on the agenda. Mark McKay is in Athens with the latest on the games of summer.

This has been fun so far. Exciting overnight, especially.

MARK MCKAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No kidding, Betty. Yes, we will focus first of all on the Iraq National side. You know, Betty, they came here with 29 Olympic athletes, competing in such sports as weightlifting, judo, swimming. But it's the soccer side that's making the biggest impact here at the summer games.

Saturday night on the Greek island of Crete, Iraq beat Australia 1-0, to secure a berth in the semi-final round. The win greeted by joyous fans, not only here in Greece, but also in Baghdad. It was party central there on Saturday night. Iraq will next play Paraguay, even if they lose, they still are in the running for a medal.

Speaking of medals, Baltimore swimmer Michael Phelps, he will be able to show off an impressive souvenir collection from the Athens Olympic games. The 19 year old gets to show off six golds and two bronze. Quite a collection from the 2004 Olympics. Phelps was able to equal the Olympic record for most medals at a single Olympics on Saturday with a little help from his friends. Phelps opted out of the 400 meter medley relay, but the U.S. still won in a world record time.

If the United States men's basketball squad hasn't received its wake-up call yet here at the summer games, they had better check the alarm. On Saturday, team USA lost its second game of the competition, letting a big lead slip away to Lithuania. The Lithuanians win 94-90. The collection of NBA players will next meet and go up -- give a big shout out to the host nation.

Greece's win on Saturday night allowed the United States to advance to the quarter final round. But Betty, two losses here in Athens, that is as many as the men's hoops squad has endured in 68 years of Olympic competition. But he said earlier, no lull for team USA.

NGUYEN: No, not at all. Talking about waking up to that alarm, I think we were all alarmed when they lost twice. No one ever expected that. We'll see how it goes. Mark McKay, thank you.

GRIFFIN: All 19 September 11th hijackers broke immigration rules. The disbanded 9/11 Commission issues two additional reports on the miscues leading up to that fateful day.

NGUYEN: And this cave could have been visited by Jesus. More on the discovery in Jerusalem. That's next right here on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: An inspirational find in Israel. Archaeologists say they found a cave where they think John the Baptist anointed many of his followers.

For more on the discovery, we're going to go to Rome and CNN's Vatican analyst John Allen.

John, thanks for joining us.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Sure thing, Drew.

GRIFFIN: The big question is I guess, you know, some are saying this is, some are saying this isn't. What is the proof that this is indeed the place where John the Baptist, baptized people and perhaps even his cousin?

ALLEN: Well, you know, for one thing, this is an ancient baptismal pool that was in use during the era in which Jesus and John the Baptist were alive. It also contains wall carvings that depict various scenes from the life of John the Baptist, including his beheading by order of King Herod.

And it is only about five kilometers away from the village of Ein Kareem (ph), which according to tradition, is where John the Baptist was born. So you can see why putting all that together, people are connecting the dots.

On the other hand, the evidence, while tantalizing, I think we'd have to say is inconclusive for at least two reasons. One is that those wall carvings actually date from the Byzantine period, which is about four or five centuries after the death of John the Baptist. And for another, the bible, the new testament says that John did his baptisms in the Jordan River, which is actually about 25 miles to the east of this site, and not in a cave near his hometown.

So I think at the end of the day, what most scholars today are saying, Drew, is that this is fascinating, but the jury's still out.

GRIFFIN: And what does the jury have to deal with in terms of deciding whether this is or is not this spot? Is there enough evidence there to make a determination? Or will this simply be another one of those holy sites for believers, but not so for the scientists.

ALLEN: Well, you know, I think that's exactly the distinction. I think this reaction is going to occur on two levels. One is the scholarly verdict. And the truth is you're never going to get absolute certainty. I mean, it's not like we have, you know, ownership records in the first century that will tell us whether this did or did not belong to John the Baptist in any kind of totally satisfying way.

So I think that debate with some uncertainty is going to continue for decades to come. The other level is the level of popular religious reaction. And there's no doubt, I think that this cave, which is on a farm just outside Jerusalem, is going to become a very popular pilgrimage site for people of faith who will see this through the lens of their devotion to John the Baptist.

And so, you know, I'm sure that at that level, people are not going to wait a kind of definitive scientific verdict, Drew.

GRIFFIN: Discovered five years ago, we're told. Why did it take this long for us to find out about it?

ALLEN: Well, listen, I mean, you don't just sort of discover an archaeological site one day and start selling tickets to it the next. I mean, this thing was full of centuries worth of mud and sentiment. And it had to be excavated very carefully and very painstakingly.

And in fact, about one-third of the site is still unexcavated. Obviously, the archaeologist, the lead archaeologist in this case, Shimon Gibson, wanted to be very careful before he announced this discovery to the rest of the world. He wanted to make sure he had the thing adequately preserved and had all the evidence he was going to find.

And so that's the situation. I mean, unfortunately, you can't rush these things.

GRIFFIN: All right, John Allen, joining us from Rome this morning. Our Vatican analysis, thanks for that. Betty?

NGUYEN: The 9/11 Commission's work may be officially over, but we'll show you some new information just released about the logistics of terror. And you can bet the swift boat issue won't be going away swiftly. A Vietnam vet working with the president's campaign steps down as the political fallout continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Munch's famous paintings, "The Scream," "Madonna" and others were stolen from an art museum. While that museum was open, while people were there, brazen attack. Apparently some armed gunmen ran into the museum and took the paintings off the wall to a waiting car. We're going to get more on this in a live report on the phone, I believe. But again, a developing story out of Norway where there's been this art heist of Edward Munch's most famous pieces. We'll have more on that.

Meanwhile, a former POW has resigned as an adviser for President Bush's re-election campaign. It came after he appeared in one of those Swift Boat ads. The Bush campaign says it was unaware former Air Force Colonel Ken Cordier was in a commercial blasting John Kerry's involvement in the Vietnam anti-war movement. Kerry has accused the veterans group of working with the Bush campaign illegally. The former skipper, meanwhile, on a Navy swift boat with Kerry is coming to the senator's defense. His name is William Rood, a "Chicago Tribune" editor. And he says in today's "Chicago Tribune" that Kerry deserves the silver star he was awarded in 1969 Vietnam ambush. He says he knows because he was there. And the veterans behind the TV spots were not.

Across the country in Oregon, the Red Cross calling for a voluntary evacuation of 100 people in the path of a fast-moving wildfire. The Douglas County blaze spread to about 3,000 acres yesterday after igniting Friday. One structure has been destroyed, but no injuries so far. Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

NGUYEN: The 9/11 Commission, which ceased operations, has released two more staff reports. One includes details of 11 flights in the days just after the attacks. They were hearing Saudi nationals, including members of Osama bin Laden's family. Saudi and U.S. officials feared for their safety, but not everybody knew about the flights. The report says "President Bush and Vice President Cheney told the Commission that they did not speak with Saudi government officials about the flights before their departure." He goes on to say the president told the commission that the first he knew about the issue was when he read about it in the newspaper.

The reports also focus on the 19 hijackers and how they got into the country. Pictures of their visas and other official documents that weren't released before are featured now. The commission says the ringleader, Mohammed Atta, and most of the other hijackers had valid visas and photo IDs. The report concludes all the hijackers had violated U.S. immigration laws in some way, but they were still able to enter the U.S. The commission also says the hijackers got money from wire transfers. They also had travelers checks, along with credit or debit cards for overseas bank accounts.

Now we want to turn to the global fight against terror. Pakistan says U.S. interests were among the targets of a bombing plot. Pakistani officials are announcing the arrest of at least five men believed to have al Qaeda links. They're accused of plotting to bomb several high profile targets in Islamabad, including the U.S. embassy and the home of President Pervez Musharraf. Pakistan's information minister says the plot called for a week of non-stop attacks. He says the suspect had 50 bombs along with rocket launchers and guns.

GRIFFIN: Here are today's developments from Iraq. U.S. war planes bombed positions outside Imam Ali Mosque held by troops loyal to Sheikh cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The rebels remaining control of that shrine after talks on surrendering it from Shi'ite religious leaders ran into trouble.

Meanwhile, Iraqi officials say 49 Iraqis were killed. 27 wounded in Najaf just this weekend.

Elsewhere in Iraq, a car bomb blew up near a convoy carrying Iraqi government officials. This is north of Baghdad. Two people were killed, seven wounded. Iraqi officials say it appears the blast targeted a deputy provincial governor, who was among the injured. He was targeted just two weeks ago in a separate attack.

An aide to Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr says Iraqi kidnappers have lifted their threat to kill American journalist Micah Garen. The aide says mediators are working out a way to have that person released. The kidnappers threatened Thursday to kill Garen within 48 hours if U.S. troops did not leave Najaf. Garen and his Iraqi translator were kidnapped in the southern city of Nasiriya August 13th.

NGUYEN: We want to go back to that breaking news that we just told you about in Oslo, Norway, where Edward Munch's famous paintings, including "The Scream and "Madonna" have been stolen. We want to go live on the phone now to Jorunn Christophersen who is head of the information to tell us a little bit more about what exactly happened.

We understand armed gunmen came into the museum and just took the paintings. Is that the case?

JORUNN CHRISTOPHERSEN, MUNCH MUSEUM INFO DIRECTOR: Yes, that's the case. That's what -- all we know for now. At 11:30, when the museum was full of people, they rushed into the museum, threatened the guards with guns, they were disguised, and grabbed the pictures of the paintings down from the wall, ran out of the museum, and had a car standing outside. We don't know whether -- that's what we can tell. So it was a third person involved there as a chauffeur.

But they drove away. And it happened very quickly. And...

NGUYEN: So it appears that this had been planned, this heist of these famous paintings, actually, "The Scream" and "Madonna." We were showing some of those on the screen just moments ago.

Now you said people were in the museum at the time. How many paintings were taken in total?

CHRISTOPHERSEN: As far as we know now, it's the two.

NGUYEN: And what's the...

CHRISTOPHERSEN: "The Scream" and the "Madonna". That's all I know. The police is there. The -- now and that's all the information we have got yet.

NGUYEN: I know it appears kind of sketchy at the moment.

CHRISTOPHERSEN: But it's the most famous and valuable paintings we have.

NGUYEN: The two most famous and valuable paintings. What are -- what's the estimated value of these paintings?

CHRISTOPHERSEN: It's hard to say. I -- they are not possible to sell. That's the open market, that's for sure anyway.

NGUYEN: Priceless, I guess, many would say.

CHRISTOPHERSEN: Yes, they are priceless. You can say that.

NGUYEN: There has been some criticism already that there is no protection for these paintings, that these paintings were simply hung on the wall with wire, no security around them. Was that the case?

CHRISTOPHERSEN: I don't want to give any comments on that right now. That is something we must go into and see.

NGUYEN: OK. Well, let's talk a little bit about a heist back in 1994, where the painting "The Scream" was stolen at that time. Were any lessons learned then, anything put in place so that this wouldn't happen again, which it obviously has?

CHRISTOPHERSEN: It wasn't stolen from the Munch Museum. It was stolen from the National Gallery because Munch painted two versions of "The Scream." We have one in the National Gallery. And that's the one that was stolen, and one in the Munch Museum. And it was a totally different matter. They broke into the National Gallery during nighttime by breaking a window and climb the ladder and something. This was something quite different.

NGUYEN: But obviously, you said two of the same paintings, these paintings, are wanted paintings. Folks want to get their hands on them. It was stolen at another gallery. Obviously stolen at your gallery. What's being done right now to recover those paintings and find the people who took them?

CHRISTOPHERSEN: I can't tell you. The police is working. It happened just a few hours ago. So the police started -- they were here immediately after and started their work.

NGUYEN: All right...

CHRISTOPHERSEN: So I can't tell anything for them...

NGUYEN: I understand.

CHRISTOPHERSEN: ...what they've done now.

NGUYEN: Lots of information still to come on this story. A breaking news story again in Norway, where Edward Munch's paintings -- famous paintings -- two of them, "The Scream" and "Madonna" have been stolen from a museum there. And that was Jorunn Christophersen on the phone, the information -- head of information at the museum. We thank you for your time today.

And right now, we're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. You are watching CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Amid the hot pants and hot sauce of a popular local restaurant in Atlanta, there is one item not listed on the menu. It's an all you can eat buffet of spiritual food, no extra charge. Here's CNN's Fredricka Whitfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): It's a restaurant known for its waitresses.

And oh yes, the wings. But at this Hooters near Atlanta, the sexuality comes with a side of spirituality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're the neighborhood restaurant that will cater to anybody and everybody's needs.

WHITFIELD: And what people here need more than anything, according to Rich Lamborn, is Jesus Christ.

RICH LAMBORN, SINGLE FOCUS: That's why we come here, because this is where the unchurched are.

WHITFIELD: Every week on the restaurant's patio, Lamborn hosts a bible study group called Single Focus that caters to college aged singles.

LAMBORN: From whom do we learn our most valuable lessons?

JUSTIN JONES, ATTENDS BIBLE STUDY: I was like you're doing what at Hooters? A bible study at Hooters? You've got to be kidding me. And so I came. And it was cool.

WHITFIELD: Organizers say what better place to put the teachings of the bible into practice.

LAMBORN: When they see that it's not a book about rules, but it's about life, then I mean that's the opposite of what we try to do.

WHITFIELD: They're not really here to preach to customers, but they encourage waitresses to take part.

MICHELLE AMAYA, HOOTERS WAITRESS: And I've actually sat with them and had discussions when I wasn't busy. And it's just -- it's more along the lines of our age group, the stuff they talk about.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just have a nice time talking to them. And they always have a -- something to talk about, other than -- a lot different than other people.

WHITFIELD: Ashley Ellis, a Christian elementary school teacher, had her reservations about Hooters. But after meeting her fiance here, she's all for it.

ASHLEY ELLIS, ATTENDS BIBLE STUDY: Really it's a good way to like reach out to the girls and just tell people what we're all about and just make it comfortable setting for people to learn about God.

WHITFIELD: Adding a little spice to your relationship with God. These believers say it's one way of reaching an age group too often turned off by organized religion.

Fredricka Whitfield, CNN, Atlanta. (END VIDEOTAPE)

(WEATHER REPORT)

NGUYEN: Want to turn to top stories now. A volunteer adviser has quit President Bush's re-election campaign. Retired Air Force Colonel Ken Cordier appeared in this Swift Boat Veterans commercial. It blasts John Kerry's involvement in the Vietnam anti-war movement.

All but one of the 9/11 hijackers had valid U.S. identification. The 9/11 Commission is urging uniformed standards for U.S. IDs. They now vary from state to state.

And hundreds of motorcycle riders honor victims of the September 11th attacks. Their annual ride from Shanksville, Pennsylvania to the Pentagon, then to New York, raises money for fire departments involved in rescue efforts.

The most prestigious title for sprinters is up for grabs this afternoon in Athens. Who will become the world's fastest human? We'll have a preview in the next hour of CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

GRIFFIN: A family campground on the New Hampshire sea coast is still cleaning up after a ferocious storm ripped through the trees there.

Jennifer Millet (ph) with CNN affiliate WMUR has the story from Hampton Falls.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM RUSSELL, HELPED FREE CAMPER: Pretty much this size limb went through her leg, through the mattress.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Tom Russell and other campers helped a couple that was pinned underneath two huge pine trees. A limb went through the woman's calf.

RUSSELL: Well, she had to be freed from that limb before we could actually get her out of the camp.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To his amazement, a baby was on the mattress too.

RUSSELL: When I was cutting the canvas, I heard a baby's voice, you know, this cry. And so like I cut it open and I pulled out a baby that was -- I don't know, 14 months or so old. Not a scratch on her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was impossible for an ambulance to get here right away, but it just so happens that Russell is a paramedic. He knew how to keep the couple stable. And he hooked them up with IVs. Rescuers eventually got here by foot.

Not far away from this crushed pop-up camper, a 13-year old boy was also trapped. The boy was sitting on the couch when a tree landed right in his lap. JIM FISHER: It took a couple hours to get in there. They cut the whole side of that trailer out, but they finally did get -- he was a 13-year old boy with two broken legs, other injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jim Fisher says it's a miracle no one was killed.

FISHER: We're all worried, but we're hoping for the best. They said, you know, one gentleman had a broken back and one had a broken -- ruptured spleen and broken ribs and punctured lungs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Russell is relieved that his own family wasn't hurt. They had gotten out of their pop-up camper just moments before it was hit.

RUSSELL: And if I had one of my children on the end of my camper, it would have been all done. Yes. Yes, he wouldn't be with us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Scary night. That is from Jennifer Millet (ph) of our affiliate WMUR in New Hampshire.

NGUYEN: Controversial commercials have caused a political skirmish between presidential camps this week. We'll put it in perspective with one of our regulars, Andrea Seabrook, when CNN SUNDAY MORNING returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: As you all know, a series of political TV commercials have challenged John Kerry's war record. And that has sparked a firestorm on the campaign trail this week. They're known as the Swift Boat ads. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If ask any question about what John Kerry's made of, just spend three minutes with the men who served with him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I served with John Kerry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I served with John Kerry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is lying about his record.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know John Kerry is lying about his first purple heart because I treated him for that injury.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry lied to get his bronze star. I know, I was there, I saw what happened. (END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Now President Bush's campaign says he and the Republican party have no connection to the ads, but that's not good enough for Senator Kerry. He's filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer. Bring it on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: The Swift Boat spots attacking Kerry dominate our political briefing this morning. And NPR congressional correspondent Andrea Seabrook has this week's installment of campaign 2004 from Washington.

Good morning to you.

ANDREA SEABROOK, NPR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Betty.

NGUYEN: Well, John Kerry says the president is allowing these swift boat ads to do his dirty work. Should the president denounce those ads? That's what a lot of this argument is about, especially as of late.

SEABROOK: Well, it is interesting that he has not specifically denounced those ads. He denounces the campaign organization, the kind of campaign organization that has allowed this group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, to put on this ad. It's called a 527 organization. It's all sort of arcane campaign finance law.

But it's a way for the president to sort of denounce the idea and to fire a shot back at the Kerry campaign, which is getting a lot of support from the same kind of organization on their side.

Now you know, should the president denounce it or not, that's -- you know, that's a question for the voters to decide. And the campaigns will definitely go back and forth on this issue.

But you know, it -- one thing is sure that Kerry's war record is, in some ways, devastating to the Bush campaign, which doesn't have its own war record to lean on, meaning Bush and Cheney did not serve in Vietnam. And these ads are devastating to the Kerry campaign because they bring up questions and plant a seed of uncertainty in many voter's minds. And so, this is the hard stuff.

NGUYEN: Oh, definitely. Let's talk about that war record, because on one side, you have veterans that are supporting Kerry's record, saying it is valid. But on the other side you have that veterans that say no it's not. How confusing is that for voters? I know I can be very confused by all of this.

SEABROOK: I think it's terribly confusing. And even worse, I think that it serves the goal of some people out there. I think there are people who would like swing voters especially to be confused. They would like to -- they would like veterans to be confused and not know who to trust. That's in some ways the same thing as planting that seed of uncertainty.

These charges don't have to be truthful for these ads to work. You know, just causing people to be uncertain, it's a classic attack ad. The truth doesn't really have to come out. People will stay home if they're just -- don't know who to believe.

NGUYEN: And that's part of the problem, finding the truth in all of this. Now there was a new ad that came out late last week, but the first ad came out a couple weeks ago. How effective are these ads?

SEABROOK: You know, I think they're effective for that reason. I mean, I think that there are winners in this fight of some sort. Any -- you have to figure out who stands to gain from the electorate feeling uncertain and annoyed with this whole process. I don't know who that is. And it depends on the specific region.

But you can't just -- I mean, the way politics works is that, you know, if this is going to work, as people are going to stay home, if people are going to vote a different way, they'll do it, even if it's not true or you know, I don't mean to side with the Kerry campaign in this case. I think it's very important that many of these allegations come up.

But the thing is responsible voters that people -- what people should do is look at these things, decide what they think is reasonable and what they think is unreasonable, including who's attacking who and so on, and try then to ignore it as much as possible. Because the more they show, the more they act on these kinds of ads, the more negative ads you will see in the future. If they work, people are going to use them.

NGUYEN: All right, NPR's Andrea Seabrook. We thank you for your time today.

SEABROOK: Thanks.

NGUYEN: Well, both presidential candidates are in hot pursuit of a key demographic. And that, as Andrea mentioned, those undecided voters.

Our Paula Zahn is on that story as well. And she joins us today for a special encore presentation of a CNN townhall meeting on the undecided vote. That takes place at 5:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN -- Drew?

GRIFFIN: And Betty and Andrea, we may find out what people think about these swift boat ads and how they are or not coming out. So we're asking this question this morning. Swift boat ads, dirty politics or politics as usual? Getting a lot of responses and we're going to read some of those next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Jessica's sister Ashlee Simpson keeps her "Autobiography" album at number one on the charts, despite a decline in sales, "Pieces of Me," named the song of the summer at the Teen Choice Awards last week. Also in the top five, three debuts this week: "Shyne," aka (UNINTELLIGIBLE), "Mobb Deep" and "Alter Bridge." Really, I didn't know any of those, but they're all there.

NGUYEN: I was going to say, you are so hip, Drew. You know you have all these CDS in your car.

GRIFFIN: Never heard of those guys.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

Aired August 22, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: From the CNN Center in Atlanta, this is CNN SUNDAY MORNING. It's August 22nd, 7:00 a.m. on the East coast, 4:00 a.m. way out West. Good morning, everybody, I'm Drew Griffin.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Betty Nguyen. Thanks so much for being with us today. Now in the news, a car bomb explodes in a town 45 miles northeast of Baghdad, killing two bodyguards. That blast, which went off about six hours ago, wounded five people, including the deputy governor of the province. It's the second time in two weeks that he has survived a car bomb attempt on his life.

In Pakistan, five arrests and counting. The information minister announces up to 10 people had been rounded up in a plot for a week long bombing situation in Islamabad. Among the targets, the U.S. embassy and the official residences of Pakistan's president. Authorities say all the suspects appear to have ties to al Qaeda.

Well, it's now officially disbanded, but the 9/11 Commission has released two staff reports that go beyond its so-called final report, which was issued last month. One report deals with how the hijackers got into the U.S. and remained here until the suicide attacks. The other deals primarily with the financing of terrorist attacks.

And the U.S. men's basketball team is still in the running in the Olympic games. The Americans have backed into the medal round, despite a two and two record. Their latest loss was to Lithuania, which is undefeated. Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

GRIFFIN: A Bush campaign adviser is the latest man overboard in the swift boat controversy. We'll take a look at the latest salvos fired by both sides in this ongoing debate about military service back in Vietnam.

An American swimmer didn't even have to get wet to enter the Olympic history books. We're going to get a full update live from Athens just ahead. And it's a buffalo wing and a prayer. Getting young people into a Hooters restaurant in Atlanta. Or is it really those skimpy outfits? We're going to explore that one just ahead on SUNDAY MORNING.

It is our top story this morning. Soft money and swift boats. More veterans are joining the burgeoning brouhaha over attack ads targeting John Kerry. One player, retired Air Force Colonel Ken Cordier, who appears in the latest commercial by the group calling itself Swift Boat Vets for Truth. One day after the Edwards release, Cordier quit as a veterans affairs adviser to the Bush re-election campaign. Kerry charges the Swift Boat Veterans group is lying about his Vietnam War record and coordinating with the Bush campaign. The Bush people deny any connection. And they say they didn't know Cordier had appeared in that ad.

NGUYEN: Wayne Lanehoffer was a gunner on another swift boat involved in an attack for which John Kerry was decorated. Now Lanehoffer told CNN quoting, "I was with Kerry when he won his silver star and as far as I'm concerned, he did right." Kerry is also getting support from another veteran, who was decorated after that 1969 firefight. Jill Dougherty reports now from Crawford, Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It happened thirty-five years ago on a river in Vietnam, a military mission led by Lieutenant John Kerry that won him a silver star. Now a newspaper editor who served with Kerry during that mission breaks three decades of silence.

William B. Rood of "The Chicago Tribune" in an article taking aim at the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, whose ads charge Kerry lied to win his medals. "Their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us," he writes. "It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there."

Polls show that ad is hurting Senator Kerry, especially among veterans. His campaign is demanding President Bush renounce it.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president needs to step to the plate, not through a spokesperson, himself, and say take down these ads.

DOUGHERTY: The Bush campaign won't take the bait. What you're seeing from the Kerry campaign is a series of false and flailing attacks, they charge. The president himself has been the targeted of $63 million in attack ads they claim. And Mr. Bush wants all soft money ads stopped.

The Kerry campaign also launched a new Internet ad, accusing Mr. Bush of remaining silent, as he did during soft money attack ads on his rival in the 2000 primaries. Senator John McCain.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Five United States senators, Vietnam veterans, heroes, some of them really incredible heroes, wrote George a letter and said "apologize." You should be ashamed.

DOUGHERTY: The Bush campaign fired back. "John Kerry's campaign is the only campaign that has questioned anybody's service during the Vietnam War."

But all this sniping, political experts say, hurts Senator Kerry more than President Bush. NORM ORNSTEIN, POLITICAL ANALYST: The more we focus our attention on attacks or counterattacks about what happened in Vietnam, the less the Kerry campaign and Kerry himself are able to frame the issues and the agenda the way they want to.

DOUGHERTY (on camera): That agenda, the economy and Iraq, all but buried this week in the crossfire.

Jill Dougherty, CNN, Crawford, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: More on this story coming up from Andrea Seabrook, an NPR correspondent who's been covering the Kerry campaign. That happens at 7:50 Eastern time right here on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

GRIFFIN: American workers could get some surprises tomorrow when a new law governing overtime goes into effect nationwide. Senator John Edwards, the Democratic vice presidential candidate, calls the new law a paid cut. And Edwards is blasting the Bush administration for endorsing it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president and the administration is now changing the rules on overtime pay, which amounts to a pay cut for millions of Americans. You know the last thing in the world we need to do at a time when people are having trouble paying their bills, you know, what's happening in America today, you all know this, you know, everybody says on the kitchen table you got two piles of bills. One is pay now, the other one is...

CROWD: Pay later.

EDWARDS: You don't want to say it. And the problem is everybody's struggling and trying to figure out how to make -- how (UNINTELLIGIBLE) need a pay cut? That's exactly what this is is cutting -- changing the overtime rules to eliminate peoples' overtime is a pay cut. We ought to raise the minimum wage in America. And we ought to get rid of these new overtime rules.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: What are the real facts? And will your overtime be affected by the new rules? The Bush administration says more people will be eligible for overtime under the rules. We'll have some examples in a report two hours from now during the 9:00 a.m. hour of CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

NGUYEN: New Jersey's embattled governor is defending his decision not to leave office immediately because of a sex scandal. McGreevey announced earlier this month he is leaving his post in November, after disclosing he is gay and had an extramarital affair with a man. Stepping down now would allow a special election to be held in November for the remaining 14 months of his term. In an op/ed piece in today's "New York Times," McGreevey says, "This decision was a difficult one and it was made with serious deliberation. While I see the merits of both sides of the debate, I stand firm with my decision. My obligation is to complete the important work already started and to achieve an effective transition of state government."

(WEATHER REPORT)

GRIFFIN: Well, it is Sunday morning. Biblical archaeology doesn't normally make news, but in Duffy Hills outside of Jerusalem, a tiny cave appears to hold intriguing clues to one of the bible's most intriguing figures.

CNN's Stan Grant went to see it for himself.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John the Baptist in all his glory. You can see...

STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a crude cave drawing, but it could be proof John the Baptist existed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...dies of a long nose. The mouth...

GRANT: To archaeologist Shimon Gibson, this cave is a doorway into the time of Jesus. For centuries, hidden near Jerusalem, close to where John was born, only now giving up its secrets. A place where the fiery new testament preacher carried out his cleansing rituals.

SHIMON GIBSON, ARCHAEOLOGIST: The evidence we have baked up to the late 1st century B.C. and early 1st century, A.D. to the time of John the Baptist himself. And this is quite astounding.

GRANT (on camera): According to archaeologists, this footprint represents an important part of the puzzle. It shows a break with Jewish tradition. It was here that followers would come and place their feet to be anointed with oil. They'd then undergo a new ritual, baptism performed by John.

GIBSON: Following that, people would then have immersed themselves in the water at the back of the cave. Then it would have come out and put on new robes. And it would have been purified. And then they would have set out from the cave.

GRANT: Who was John? The bible says a man who preached in the wilderness, depicted as a wild figure living on locusts clad in camel skin with matted hair. He's believed to have been the cousin of Jesus and baptized him.

Shimon Gibson imagines Jesus himself with John in this cave.

GIBSON: But this is speculation. But it's nice to think about it, the idea that down these steps, Jesus himself walked, and then performed baptism rites...

GRANT: But is all of this to be believed? There are no inscriptions, no written proof. The evidence Gibson concedes is circumstantial.

GIBSON: It would be wonderful if John the Baptist had sort of inscribed in the wall, I am John the Baptist and this is the place where I baptized. But you know, that's nature of archaeological discovery.

GRANT: Gibson is ready for the debate. For five years, he has kept his discovery a secret, since he was told about the cave by locals. The story of John, he says, is on the walls. Depictions of decapitated head and severed arm. All pointing, he says, to one of the great archaeological finds of the gospels, the cave of John the Baptist.

Stan Grant, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Very interesting.

NGUYEN: Yes.

GRIFFIN: Stay close, too. We're going to learn more about this archaeological discovery of biblical proportions near Jerusalem. We'll have a live report from Rome.

NGUYEN: Looking forward to that. Plus, the U.S. men's basketball team is holding onto medal hopes, but they're still not getting much love in Athens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bible study at Hooters? You got to be kidding me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: What would Jesus do? Hot wings, cold beer, and nearly naked waitresses gather around the good book?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Some other stories across America this Sunday morning. Two more emergency rooms in southern California shutting down. One in East Los Angeles, the other in Northridge. Administrators say they're treating large numbers of uninsured patients, including illegal immigrants. And it's racked up millions of dollars of debt. Four other area ERs have closed in the past two years there.

In Port St. John Florida, a funeral for Paul Johnson Junior. He was the engineer kidnapped and killed in June by militants in Saudi Arabia. He's a former resident of Florida. Johnson's remains will be cremated and then sent to Thailand. His widow if from there. In Hackensack, New Jersey, a propane tank explosion near the courthouse was, according to authorities there, a freak accident. The blast blew out windows in downtown businesses. Nobody hurt. Investigators say a defect in the tank led to that explosion.

And near the New Hampshire seacoast, one person injured critically when a powerful thunderstorm slammed into a campground. It knocked down trees and power lines as you can see. Nine other people were also hurt. Eight still in hospitals. It took about four hours to free some of those people trapped inside crushed campers. We'll have a full report. It's coming up later this hour.

NGUYEN: Just in case you've been counting, it is day nine of the 28th Olympiad in Greece with 27 medals it's on the agenda. Mark McKay is in Athens with the latest on the games of summer.

This has been fun so far. Exciting overnight, especially.

MARK MCKAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No kidding, Betty. Yes, we will focus first of all on the Iraq National side. You know, Betty, they came here with 29 Olympic athletes, competing in such sports as weightlifting, judo, swimming. But it's the soccer side that's making the biggest impact here at the summer games.

Saturday night on the Greek island of Crete, Iraq beat Australia 1-0, to secure a berth in the semi-final round. The win greeted by joyous fans, not only here in Greece, but also in Baghdad. It was party central there on Saturday night. Iraq will next play Paraguay, even if they lose, they still are in the running for a medal.

Speaking of medals, Baltimore swimmer Michael Phelps, he will be able to show off an impressive souvenir collection from the Athens Olympic games. The 19 year old gets to show off six golds and two bronze. Quite a collection from the 2004 Olympics. Phelps was able to equal the Olympic record for most medals at a single Olympics on Saturday with a little help from his friends. Phelps opted out of the 400 meter medley relay, but the U.S. still won in a world record time.

If the United States men's basketball squad hasn't received its wake-up call yet here at the summer games, they had better check the alarm. On Saturday, team USA lost its second game of the competition, letting a big lead slip away to Lithuania. The Lithuanians win 94-90. The collection of NBA players will next meet and go up -- give a big shout out to the host nation.

Greece's win on Saturday night allowed the United States to advance to the quarter final round. But Betty, two losses here in Athens, that is as many as the men's hoops squad has endured in 68 years of Olympic competition. But he said earlier, no lull for team USA.

NGUYEN: No, not at all. Talking about waking up to that alarm, I think we were all alarmed when they lost twice. No one ever expected that. We'll see how it goes. Mark McKay, thank you.

GRIFFIN: All 19 September 11th hijackers broke immigration rules. The disbanded 9/11 Commission issues two additional reports on the miscues leading up to that fateful day.

NGUYEN: And this cave could have been visited by Jesus. More on the discovery in Jerusalem. That's next right here on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: An inspirational find in Israel. Archaeologists say they found a cave where they think John the Baptist anointed many of his followers.

For more on the discovery, we're going to go to Rome and CNN's Vatican analyst John Allen.

John, thanks for joining us.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Sure thing, Drew.

GRIFFIN: The big question is I guess, you know, some are saying this is, some are saying this isn't. What is the proof that this is indeed the place where John the Baptist, baptized people and perhaps even his cousin?

ALLEN: Well, you know, for one thing, this is an ancient baptismal pool that was in use during the era in which Jesus and John the Baptist were alive. It also contains wall carvings that depict various scenes from the life of John the Baptist, including his beheading by order of King Herod.

And it is only about five kilometers away from the village of Ein Kareem (ph), which according to tradition, is where John the Baptist was born. So you can see why putting all that together, people are connecting the dots.

On the other hand, the evidence, while tantalizing, I think we'd have to say is inconclusive for at least two reasons. One is that those wall carvings actually date from the Byzantine period, which is about four or five centuries after the death of John the Baptist. And for another, the bible, the new testament says that John did his baptisms in the Jordan River, which is actually about 25 miles to the east of this site, and not in a cave near his hometown.

So I think at the end of the day, what most scholars today are saying, Drew, is that this is fascinating, but the jury's still out.

GRIFFIN: And what does the jury have to deal with in terms of deciding whether this is or is not this spot? Is there enough evidence there to make a determination? Or will this simply be another one of those holy sites for believers, but not so for the scientists.

ALLEN: Well, you know, I think that's exactly the distinction. I think this reaction is going to occur on two levels. One is the scholarly verdict. And the truth is you're never going to get absolute certainty. I mean, it's not like we have, you know, ownership records in the first century that will tell us whether this did or did not belong to John the Baptist in any kind of totally satisfying way.

So I think that debate with some uncertainty is going to continue for decades to come. The other level is the level of popular religious reaction. And there's no doubt, I think that this cave, which is on a farm just outside Jerusalem, is going to become a very popular pilgrimage site for people of faith who will see this through the lens of their devotion to John the Baptist.

And so, you know, I'm sure that at that level, people are not going to wait a kind of definitive scientific verdict, Drew.

GRIFFIN: Discovered five years ago, we're told. Why did it take this long for us to find out about it?

ALLEN: Well, listen, I mean, you don't just sort of discover an archaeological site one day and start selling tickets to it the next. I mean, this thing was full of centuries worth of mud and sentiment. And it had to be excavated very carefully and very painstakingly.

And in fact, about one-third of the site is still unexcavated. Obviously, the archaeologist, the lead archaeologist in this case, Shimon Gibson, wanted to be very careful before he announced this discovery to the rest of the world. He wanted to make sure he had the thing adequately preserved and had all the evidence he was going to find.

And so that's the situation. I mean, unfortunately, you can't rush these things.

GRIFFIN: All right, John Allen, joining us from Rome this morning. Our Vatican analysis, thanks for that. Betty?

NGUYEN: The 9/11 Commission's work may be officially over, but we'll show you some new information just released about the logistics of terror. And you can bet the swift boat issue won't be going away swiftly. A Vietnam vet working with the president's campaign steps down as the political fallout continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Munch's famous paintings, "The Scream," "Madonna" and others were stolen from an art museum. While that museum was open, while people were there, brazen attack. Apparently some armed gunmen ran into the museum and took the paintings off the wall to a waiting car. We're going to get more on this in a live report on the phone, I believe. But again, a developing story out of Norway where there's been this art heist of Edward Munch's most famous pieces. We'll have more on that.

Meanwhile, a former POW has resigned as an adviser for President Bush's re-election campaign. It came after he appeared in one of those Swift Boat ads. The Bush campaign says it was unaware former Air Force Colonel Ken Cordier was in a commercial blasting John Kerry's involvement in the Vietnam anti-war movement. Kerry has accused the veterans group of working with the Bush campaign illegally. The former skipper, meanwhile, on a Navy swift boat with Kerry is coming to the senator's defense. His name is William Rood, a "Chicago Tribune" editor. And he says in today's "Chicago Tribune" that Kerry deserves the silver star he was awarded in 1969 Vietnam ambush. He says he knows because he was there. And the veterans behind the TV spots were not.

Across the country in Oregon, the Red Cross calling for a voluntary evacuation of 100 people in the path of a fast-moving wildfire. The Douglas County blaze spread to about 3,000 acres yesterday after igniting Friday. One structure has been destroyed, but no injuries so far. Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

NGUYEN: The 9/11 Commission, which ceased operations, has released two more staff reports. One includes details of 11 flights in the days just after the attacks. They were hearing Saudi nationals, including members of Osama bin Laden's family. Saudi and U.S. officials feared for their safety, but not everybody knew about the flights. The report says "President Bush and Vice President Cheney told the Commission that they did not speak with Saudi government officials about the flights before their departure." He goes on to say the president told the commission that the first he knew about the issue was when he read about it in the newspaper.

The reports also focus on the 19 hijackers and how they got into the country. Pictures of their visas and other official documents that weren't released before are featured now. The commission says the ringleader, Mohammed Atta, and most of the other hijackers had valid visas and photo IDs. The report concludes all the hijackers had violated U.S. immigration laws in some way, but they were still able to enter the U.S. The commission also says the hijackers got money from wire transfers. They also had travelers checks, along with credit or debit cards for overseas bank accounts.

Now we want to turn to the global fight against terror. Pakistan says U.S. interests were among the targets of a bombing plot. Pakistani officials are announcing the arrest of at least five men believed to have al Qaeda links. They're accused of plotting to bomb several high profile targets in Islamabad, including the U.S. embassy and the home of President Pervez Musharraf. Pakistan's information minister says the plot called for a week of non-stop attacks. He says the suspect had 50 bombs along with rocket launchers and guns.

GRIFFIN: Here are today's developments from Iraq. U.S. war planes bombed positions outside Imam Ali Mosque held by troops loyal to Sheikh cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The rebels remaining control of that shrine after talks on surrendering it from Shi'ite religious leaders ran into trouble.

Meanwhile, Iraqi officials say 49 Iraqis were killed. 27 wounded in Najaf just this weekend.

Elsewhere in Iraq, a car bomb blew up near a convoy carrying Iraqi government officials. This is north of Baghdad. Two people were killed, seven wounded. Iraqi officials say it appears the blast targeted a deputy provincial governor, who was among the injured. He was targeted just two weeks ago in a separate attack.

An aide to Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr says Iraqi kidnappers have lifted their threat to kill American journalist Micah Garen. The aide says mediators are working out a way to have that person released. The kidnappers threatened Thursday to kill Garen within 48 hours if U.S. troops did not leave Najaf. Garen and his Iraqi translator were kidnapped in the southern city of Nasiriya August 13th.

NGUYEN: We want to go back to that breaking news that we just told you about in Oslo, Norway, where Edward Munch's famous paintings, including "The Scream and "Madonna" have been stolen. We want to go live on the phone now to Jorunn Christophersen who is head of the information to tell us a little bit more about what exactly happened.

We understand armed gunmen came into the museum and just took the paintings. Is that the case?

JORUNN CHRISTOPHERSEN, MUNCH MUSEUM INFO DIRECTOR: Yes, that's the case. That's what -- all we know for now. At 11:30, when the museum was full of people, they rushed into the museum, threatened the guards with guns, they were disguised, and grabbed the pictures of the paintings down from the wall, ran out of the museum, and had a car standing outside. We don't know whether -- that's what we can tell. So it was a third person involved there as a chauffeur.

But they drove away. And it happened very quickly. And...

NGUYEN: So it appears that this had been planned, this heist of these famous paintings, actually, "The Scream" and "Madonna." We were showing some of those on the screen just moments ago.

Now you said people were in the museum at the time. How many paintings were taken in total?

CHRISTOPHERSEN: As far as we know now, it's the two.

NGUYEN: And what's the...

CHRISTOPHERSEN: "The Scream" and the "Madonna". That's all I know. The police is there. The -- now and that's all the information we have got yet.

NGUYEN: I know it appears kind of sketchy at the moment.

CHRISTOPHERSEN: But it's the most famous and valuable paintings we have.

NGUYEN: The two most famous and valuable paintings. What are -- what's the estimated value of these paintings?

CHRISTOPHERSEN: It's hard to say. I -- they are not possible to sell. That's the open market, that's for sure anyway.

NGUYEN: Priceless, I guess, many would say.

CHRISTOPHERSEN: Yes, they are priceless. You can say that.

NGUYEN: There has been some criticism already that there is no protection for these paintings, that these paintings were simply hung on the wall with wire, no security around them. Was that the case?

CHRISTOPHERSEN: I don't want to give any comments on that right now. That is something we must go into and see.

NGUYEN: OK. Well, let's talk a little bit about a heist back in 1994, where the painting "The Scream" was stolen at that time. Were any lessons learned then, anything put in place so that this wouldn't happen again, which it obviously has?

CHRISTOPHERSEN: It wasn't stolen from the Munch Museum. It was stolen from the National Gallery because Munch painted two versions of "The Scream." We have one in the National Gallery. And that's the one that was stolen, and one in the Munch Museum. And it was a totally different matter. They broke into the National Gallery during nighttime by breaking a window and climb the ladder and something. This was something quite different.

NGUYEN: But obviously, you said two of the same paintings, these paintings, are wanted paintings. Folks want to get their hands on them. It was stolen at another gallery. Obviously stolen at your gallery. What's being done right now to recover those paintings and find the people who took them?

CHRISTOPHERSEN: I can't tell you. The police is working. It happened just a few hours ago. So the police started -- they were here immediately after and started their work.

NGUYEN: All right...

CHRISTOPHERSEN: So I can't tell anything for them...

NGUYEN: I understand.

CHRISTOPHERSEN: ...what they've done now.

NGUYEN: Lots of information still to come on this story. A breaking news story again in Norway, where Edward Munch's paintings -- famous paintings -- two of them, "The Scream" and "Madonna" have been stolen from a museum there. And that was Jorunn Christophersen on the phone, the information -- head of information at the museum. We thank you for your time today.

And right now, we're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. You are watching CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Amid the hot pants and hot sauce of a popular local restaurant in Atlanta, there is one item not listed on the menu. It's an all you can eat buffet of spiritual food, no extra charge. Here's CNN's Fredricka Whitfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): It's a restaurant known for its waitresses.

And oh yes, the wings. But at this Hooters near Atlanta, the sexuality comes with a side of spirituality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're the neighborhood restaurant that will cater to anybody and everybody's needs.

WHITFIELD: And what people here need more than anything, according to Rich Lamborn, is Jesus Christ.

RICH LAMBORN, SINGLE FOCUS: That's why we come here, because this is where the unchurched are.

WHITFIELD: Every week on the restaurant's patio, Lamborn hosts a bible study group called Single Focus that caters to college aged singles.

LAMBORN: From whom do we learn our most valuable lessons?

JUSTIN JONES, ATTENDS BIBLE STUDY: I was like you're doing what at Hooters? A bible study at Hooters? You've got to be kidding me. And so I came. And it was cool.

WHITFIELD: Organizers say what better place to put the teachings of the bible into practice.

LAMBORN: When they see that it's not a book about rules, but it's about life, then I mean that's the opposite of what we try to do.

WHITFIELD: They're not really here to preach to customers, but they encourage waitresses to take part.

MICHELLE AMAYA, HOOTERS WAITRESS: And I've actually sat with them and had discussions when I wasn't busy. And it's just -- it's more along the lines of our age group, the stuff they talk about.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just have a nice time talking to them. And they always have a -- something to talk about, other than -- a lot different than other people.

WHITFIELD: Ashley Ellis, a Christian elementary school teacher, had her reservations about Hooters. But after meeting her fiance here, she's all for it.

ASHLEY ELLIS, ATTENDS BIBLE STUDY: Really it's a good way to like reach out to the girls and just tell people what we're all about and just make it comfortable setting for people to learn about God.

WHITFIELD: Adding a little spice to your relationship with God. These believers say it's one way of reaching an age group too often turned off by organized religion.

Fredricka Whitfield, CNN, Atlanta. (END VIDEOTAPE)

(WEATHER REPORT)

NGUYEN: Want to turn to top stories now. A volunteer adviser has quit President Bush's re-election campaign. Retired Air Force Colonel Ken Cordier appeared in this Swift Boat Veterans commercial. It blasts John Kerry's involvement in the Vietnam anti-war movement.

All but one of the 9/11 hijackers had valid U.S. identification. The 9/11 Commission is urging uniformed standards for U.S. IDs. They now vary from state to state.

And hundreds of motorcycle riders honor victims of the September 11th attacks. Their annual ride from Shanksville, Pennsylvania to the Pentagon, then to New York, raises money for fire departments involved in rescue efforts.

The most prestigious title for sprinters is up for grabs this afternoon in Athens. Who will become the world's fastest human? We'll have a preview in the next hour of CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

GRIFFIN: A family campground on the New Hampshire sea coast is still cleaning up after a ferocious storm ripped through the trees there.

Jennifer Millet (ph) with CNN affiliate WMUR has the story from Hampton Falls.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM RUSSELL, HELPED FREE CAMPER: Pretty much this size limb went through her leg, through the mattress.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Tom Russell and other campers helped a couple that was pinned underneath two huge pine trees. A limb went through the woman's calf.

RUSSELL: Well, she had to be freed from that limb before we could actually get her out of the camp.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To his amazement, a baby was on the mattress too.

RUSSELL: When I was cutting the canvas, I heard a baby's voice, you know, this cry. And so like I cut it open and I pulled out a baby that was -- I don't know, 14 months or so old. Not a scratch on her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was impossible for an ambulance to get here right away, but it just so happens that Russell is a paramedic. He knew how to keep the couple stable. And he hooked them up with IVs. Rescuers eventually got here by foot.

Not far away from this crushed pop-up camper, a 13-year old boy was also trapped. The boy was sitting on the couch when a tree landed right in his lap. JIM FISHER: It took a couple hours to get in there. They cut the whole side of that trailer out, but they finally did get -- he was a 13-year old boy with two broken legs, other injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jim Fisher says it's a miracle no one was killed.

FISHER: We're all worried, but we're hoping for the best. They said, you know, one gentleman had a broken back and one had a broken -- ruptured spleen and broken ribs and punctured lungs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Russell is relieved that his own family wasn't hurt. They had gotten out of their pop-up camper just moments before it was hit.

RUSSELL: And if I had one of my children on the end of my camper, it would have been all done. Yes. Yes, he wouldn't be with us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Scary night. That is from Jennifer Millet (ph) of our affiliate WMUR in New Hampshire.

NGUYEN: Controversial commercials have caused a political skirmish between presidential camps this week. We'll put it in perspective with one of our regulars, Andrea Seabrook, when CNN SUNDAY MORNING returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: As you all know, a series of political TV commercials have challenged John Kerry's war record. And that has sparked a firestorm on the campaign trail this week. They're known as the Swift Boat ads. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If ask any question about what John Kerry's made of, just spend three minutes with the men who served with him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I served with John Kerry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I served with John Kerry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is lying about his record.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know John Kerry is lying about his first purple heart because I treated him for that injury.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry lied to get his bronze star. I know, I was there, I saw what happened. (END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Now President Bush's campaign says he and the Republican party have no connection to the ads, but that's not good enough for Senator Kerry. He's filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer. Bring it on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: The Swift Boat spots attacking Kerry dominate our political briefing this morning. And NPR congressional correspondent Andrea Seabrook has this week's installment of campaign 2004 from Washington.

Good morning to you.

ANDREA SEABROOK, NPR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Betty.

NGUYEN: Well, John Kerry says the president is allowing these swift boat ads to do his dirty work. Should the president denounce those ads? That's what a lot of this argument is about, especially as of late.

SEABROOK: Well, it is interesting that he has not specifically denounced those ads. He denounces the campaign organization, the kind of campaign organization that has allowed this group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, to put on this ad. It's called a 527 organization. It's all sort of arcane campaign finance law.

But it's a way for the president to sort of denounce the idea and to fire a shot back at the Kerry campaign, which is getting a lot of support from the same kind of organization on their side.

Now you know, should the president denounce it or not, that's -- you know, that's a question for the voters to decide. And the campaigns will definitely go back and forth on this issue.

But you know, it -- one thing is sure that Kerry's war record is, in some ways, devastating to the Bush campaign, which doesn't have its own war record to lean on, meaning Bush and Cheney did not serve in Vietnam. And these ads are devastating to the Kerry campaign because they bring up questions and plant a seed of uncertainty in many voter's minds. And so, this is the hard stuff.

NGUYEN: Oh, definitely. Let's talk about that war record, because on one side, you have veterans that are supporting Kerry's record, saying it is valid. But on the other side you have that veterans that say no it's not. How confusing is that for voters? I know I can be very confused by all of this.

SEABROOK: I think it's terribly confusing. And even worse, I think that it serves the goal of some people out there. I think there are people who would like swing voters especially to be confused. They would like to -- they would like veterans to be confused and not know who to trust. That's in some ways the same thing as planting that seed of uncertainty.

These charges don't have to be truthful for these ads to work. You know, just causing people to be uncertain, it's a classic attack ad. The truth doesn't really have to come out. People will stay home if they're just -- don't know who to believe.

NGUYEN: And that's part of the problem, finding the truth in all of this. Now there was a new ad that came out late last week, but the first ad came out a couple weeks ago. How effective are these ads?

SEABROOK: You know, I think they're effective for that reason. I mean, I think that there are winners in this fight of some sort. Any -- you have to figure out who stands to gain from the electorate feeling uncertain and annoyed with this whole process. I don't know who that is. And it depends on the specific region.

But you can't just -- I mean, the way politics works is that, you know, if this is going to work, as people are going to stay home, if people are going to vote a different way, they'll do it, even if it's not true or you know, I don't mean to side with the Kerry campaign in this case. I think it's very important that many of these allegations come up.

But the thing is responsible voters that people -- what people should do is look at these things, decide what they think is reasonable and what they think is unreasonable, including who's attacking who and so on, and try then to ignore it as much as possible. Because the more they show, the more they act on these kinds of ads, the more negative ads you will see in the future. If they work, people are going to use them.

NGUYEN: All right, NPR's Andrea Seabrook. We thank you for your time today.

SEABROOK: Thanks.

NGUYEN: Well, both presidential candidates are in hot pursuit of a key demographic. And that, as Andrea mentioned, those undecided voters.

Our Paula Zahn is on that story as well. And she joins us today for a special encore presentation of a CNN townhall meeting on the undecided vote. That takes place at 5:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN -- Drew?

GRIFFIN: And Betty and Andrea, we may find out what people think about these swift boat ads and how they are or not coming out. So we're asking this question this morning. Swift boat ads, dirty politics or politics as usual? Getting a lot of responses and we're going to read some of those next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Jessica's sister Ashlee Simpson keeps her "Autobiography" album at number one on the charts, despite a decline in sales, "Pieces of Me," named the song of the summer at the Teen Choice Awards last week. Also in the top five, three debuts this week: "Shyne," aka (UNINTELLIGIBLE), "Mobb Deep" and "Alter Bridge." Really, I didn't know any of those, but they're all there.

NGUYEN: I was going to say, you are so hip, Drew. You know you have all these CDS in your car.

GRIFFIN: Never heard of those guys.

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