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CNN Sunday Morning
Airliner Goes Down in Greece
Aired August 14, 2005 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And we begin with breaking news near Athens, Greece. A Helios airliner from Cyprus went down today with 121 people aboard. Rescue teams are heading to the crash site in the mountains north of Athens. State television said there was an unconfirmed report that one of the pilots had collapsed just before the crash. A live report is just ahead.
It is a high alert in Gaza and the West Bank, as Palestinian and Israeli authorities ready for the pullout of Jewish settlers from the occupied land. 55,000 Israeli soldiers and police will monitor the historic withdrawal of Jewish settlers. A live report from Jerusalem is just ahead.
Iraqi lawmakers hope to have a constitutional draft finished by today, one day before its Monday deadline. Leaders have agreed that oil revenues will be distributed to all regions, but there's still some doubt a final deal can be reached. Completing the document is seen as a key in the rise of democracy in Iraq.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad introduced his new cabinet today. It's one with a definite hard line conservative tone. None of his 21 nominations are known for reforms, suggesting Iran will move away from the moderate policies of former President Mohammed Khatami. Iran's parliament will vote on the nominees this week.
And good morning, everyone. This is CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I'm Tony Harris. Breaking news this morning. A passenger jet has crashed north of Athens.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen. Let's get straight to this morning's top story. Breaking news that you're seeing right now.
The crash of a Cypriot jetliner in the mountains of north Athens, Greece. Joining us live via phone from Athens with more details is journalist Anthee Carassavas.
We want to thank you for being with us. First thing I want to ask you is what's the latest that you know about the possibility of any survivors?
ANTHEE CARASSAVAS, JOURNALIST: Well, Betty, the information that is coming in is very sketchy. Greek authorities, we understand, have launched a massive rescue operation north of Athens, trying to recover any possible survivors from debris of the crash. Now authorities have yet to determine the causes of this accident, billed one of the worst in Greece's recent aviation history. We understand that the passenger aircraft was carrying 121 passenger and crew when it rammed into a mountain north of Athens, the Greek capitol, around noon today. This happened about an hour after Greek air traffic control officials lost contact with the plane, as it had entered the Greek National air space from Cyprus.
Because of this loss of contact, two F-16 aircraft were ordered to the southeast Aegean Sea to aid the struggling plane aimed to Athens. But once the pilots, once the F-16 airplanes approached the troubled aircraft, their attempts to make contact again were unheeded.
A Greek Air Force spokesman we've been speaking to throughout the day told us that the two F-16 aircraft escorted the Cyprus passenger plane until it crashed. Betty?
NGUYEN: We're looking at video right now of rescue teams making their way up the mountain to the crash site. Talk to us a little bit about this crash site, where it happened and is it a populated area?
CARASSAVAS: Well, it's about 40 kilometers northeast of Athens, the Greek capitol. It's at an uninhabited area, but there are various hamlets on the basin of this particular mountain. It's very rugged territory. Rescue teams will have enormous difficulties trying to comb the particular area.
But again, it's close to the most popular town, one of the most historic towns in Greece, which is called Marathon.
NGUYEN: There are a lot of unanswered questions. And if you could, walk us through this, step by step. We'd learned from reports that when those F-16s went up, that one of the pilots had appeared to have collapsed. But then we're also reading that as the F-16s approached, their pilots saw no signs of life. So what are you being told?
CARASSAVAS: I'm being told by the senior -- by senior Greek Air Force officials that they are not ruling out anything. Either this being the result of foul play or malfunction.
One of the theories that is being put out here, especially by state media, is that the airport -- the pilots reported a malfunction or a problem in the air conditioning system shortly before take-off. In fact, some of the passengers here, some of the relatives of these passengers who were on board have received text -- e-mail texts indicating that they were freezing, as they were about to take off.
At the same time, officials from the Air Force are saying that the F-16 pilots that approached -- the aircraft approached as close as an be could not determine that the pilots were commanding the aircraft -- Betty?
NGUYEN: I think it's very important that you said that there were problems before take-off. Now of course we don't know if that had anything to do with the crash itself. We're learning all of this as it just comes in. Again, we're looking at pictures of rescue crews headed up the mountain to the crash site.
Let's go back, if you would, Anthee, to the point where contact was lost with the pilots of this plane. And how long did that occur before those F-16s were sent up?
CARASSAVAS: Well, contact was lost shortly after the passenger aircraft made its way into Greek national air space.
NGUYEN: So it wasn't after take-off?
CARASSAVAS: It was after take-off from Larnica of Cyprus. So it flew out of Cyprus. It streamed through Cyprus National air space. Once it entered Greek national air space set in the southeast Aegean, that's when the last contact was made.
And in fact, Greek Air Force -- air traffic control officials were saying that they never managed to make any contact whatsoever with this particular aircraft. One official was quoted as saying, "we have no idea who was commanding this particular aircraft."
And it was after at least 45 minutes of repeated and consistent attempts to make contact that the Air Force was drawn into this crisis, that two F-16 jets were sent to the particular location in the southeast Aegean. They tried to see -- to establish contact to wave to the pilots, to signal them and to of course, escort them in.
The reason F-16s and fighter jets are sent up to escort particular aircraft are for various scenario. Either hijackings, or terrorist attacks, or of course, mechanical failures and malfunctions, where they assist the particular aircraft and try and drive it home, drive it into the closest airport.
That according to a senior Air Force official was not the particular case here. And what they did instead, the F-16 pilot, was simply escort it until it lost all its fuel and rammed up, and basically hit this mountain north of Athens.
NGUYEN: So contact was lost shortly after take-off. This is going to be very important, this timeline, as investigators put together exactly what happened.
Do you happen to know at what altitude it was at when those F-16s reached the plane?
CARASSAVAS: No, there was no indication. We have no indication whatsoever. We simply have that the latest and the last contact was 10:26 local time, flight F522 Helios Airlines.
NGUYEN: All right, journalist Anthee Carassavas. We thank you for that update, that information. Of course, we're going to be following all of this.
And we have some more information -- Tony?
HARRIS: Yes, Betty, we're joined now by Vicky Xites. She is a commercial manager for Helios Airlines. And Vickie's on the phone with us.
Vickie, hello. How are you?
VICKIE XITES, COMMERCIAL MGR., HELIOS AIRLINES: Hello, I'm fine, thank you.
HARRIS: OK, I know this is a very difficult afternoon for you, but if you could, sort of walk us through the chain of events as you understand them? What is the latest information that you have on...
XITES: Well, there's not much information that I can give you.
HARRIS: OK.
XITES: Information you don't have. We are certain that the air -- that the airliner crashed in Greece, near Athens. There is -- the reason for the crash is still unknown. The authorities and every -- and our control center are trying their utmost to ascertain the reason for the crash.
We are also here -- our thoughts and concerns are for the families of the passengers. And we are setting up a control center here to look after everybody and try and contain the situation, this very unfortunate situation as much as we can.
HARRIS: OK, Vicky. Have you been in contact with the passengers families at this point?
XITES: I know they are being assembled in a special place in a special control center that we have set up at the airport. And we are going right in a few minutes to talk to them and...
HARRIS: And Vicky, which airport are we talking about?
XITES: We're talking about Larnica Airport in Cyprus.
HARRIS: OK. Our numbers are 115 passengers and 6 crew. Are those your numbers as well?
XITES: About that, yes.
HARRIS: OK. Who are you in contact with, authorities wise, in terms of getting you any additional information as to the circumstances surrounding this crash?
XITES: Well, you know, the civil aviation of Cyprus is very much involved. And all the other official channels that normally get involved in situations like this.
HARRIS: And I understand that Helios is a subsidiary of which company?
XITES: Of Libra Holidays Group.
HARRIS: OK. And I understand it was -- this plane was destined for a vacation spot? Is that correct? XITES: That's right. The airplane was on its way to -- from Larnica to Athens. And then it was going to go onto Prague.
HARRIS: Onto Prague. OK. Why don't we -- if you get any more additional information, we'll certainly be checking in with you throughout the course of the day for any...
XITES: Certainly.
HARRIS: ...additional information. Vicky Xites, we appreciate it. Commercial manager for Helios Airlines. We're going to take a break. Of course, we are going to be following the latest developments in this crash all morning long here on CNN SUNDAY MORNING. A quick break and we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: OK, here's a look at our top stories now starting with some breaking new overseas. A Cyprus jetliner crashed today in the mountains northeast of Athens, Greece. 121 passengers, that should be 115 passengers and six crew members were aboard. Rescue teams are headed to the scene. There have been no immediate reports of survivors.
Israel has given Jewish settlers until Wednesday to withdraw from Gaza and parts of the West Bank. After that, they will be forcibly removed. Some have vowed not to leave. The evacuation starts tomorrow.
In Iraq, several roadside bombings and a shooting incident have killed seven U.S. soldiers since Friday. 1850 American troops have been killed in Iraq. 52 so far this month.
NGUYEN: As Tony mentioned, the clock is ticking in Gaza and the West Bank. Midnight is the start of the historic pullout of Jewish settlers from the occupied lands.
Joining us now live from Jerusalem is CNN correspondent Paula Hancocks. Have you seen movement already, Paula?
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, the Israeli and the Palestinian forces and the security forces are already getting into place ahead of that deadline.
Midnight Sunday night, that's about 10 hours from now local time, is when the -- it will become illegal for the settlers to be in Gaza.
Now there's 21 settlements in Gaza. All of those will be dismantled. And four in the West Bank.
Earlier on today, we saw the vice prime minister Shimon Perez went down to meet some of the forces at the Kisophene (ph) checkpoint. Now this is the main checkpoint in between Israel and the settlements in Gaza.
And he went along to thank the forces for what they were doing and saying what is happening at the moment will be saving the state of Israel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHIMON PERES, PRIME MINISTER: Postponing the decision would not solve anybody, but would again play verbal and maybe violence and suffering. There is no sense whatsoever to remaining.
Now a nation must be able to take decisions democratically. And under no circumstances should the nation retreat from a national choice because of faults or power or threat of demonstrations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANCOCKS: Now roadblocks are being set up also in southern Israel to stop thousands of protesters who are expected to try and get down to that Kisophene (ph) checkpoint and either delay or cause trouble to this evacuation.
Now it's thought that after this midnight deadline, that early tomorrow morning, these officials, the police and the military, will be knocking on all the doors, telling the settlers they have to leave, and asking them if they need help in leaving, and if they need help in packing.
But from Wednesday, that is when the troops will go in and forcibly remove any settlers that are still left there, Betty.
NGUYEN: Paula, in the -- any idea or indication of how many settlers may resist this pullout and try to stay?
HANCOCKS: Well, that's a question that no one knows the answer to at the moment. It's really not certain exactly what is going to happen.
It is known, though, according to government figures, about 60 percent, maybe a little more, of those settlers have applied for compensation packages. Those compensation for the Jewish settlers that have to move out of Gaza and parts of the West Bank.
So that suggests that most people in these areas will be moving of their own accord. And some Israeli media today is reporting that they expect about 50 percent of these settlers at least to be moving in the next couple of days, before that Tuesday midnight deadline, when the forces will actually go in and forcibly remove the rest of the settlers.
The settler cancelers said they want to non violent protest. They want the settlers to try and talk to the soldiers, to try and persuade the soldiers not to carry out their duty and their mission. In that way, they want to be able to protest, many of them saying they will stay 'til the end, but they will not be violent.
But the one thing the security forces are worried about are the non residents that have infiltrated Gaza. It could be anywhere between 3,000 and 5,000 people. There really isn't a definite figure on how many have snuck into Gaza to try and bolster the support of the settlers and actually try and stop or delay, at least, this evacuation. It's those people that the security forces are not entirely sure how will react.
NGUYEN: We will be watching as the events play out. Paula, thank you for that update.
The estimated cost of the Gaza withdrawal is nearly $2 billion. Now that includes compensation to residents and businesses. And the price tag of security fence.
HARRIS: And here is the latest information we have on this morning's crash of a passenger plane in Greece. A Cypriot plane carrying 115 passengers, 6 crew members struck a mountain as you take a look at these pictures just into CNN.
And crashed just north of Marathon. There are at least right now no immediate reports of survivors. The plane was en route from Larnica, Cyprus to Athens.
And here's what's most disturbing about the reports coming into us so far. A spokesperson for the Greek Air Force has told CNN that the plane entered Greek air space about 10:30 local time, but efforts by air traffic officials to contact the pilots were futile. And after a brief period of time, two Greek F-16s were scrambled.
Now as the F-16s approached, their pilots saw no sign of life in the cockpit. A Cypriot plane carrying 115 passengers and six crew members down, having struck a mountain just north of Marathon. We'll continue to follow this story and get you the very latest information on the other side of the break.
This is CNN SUNDAY MORNING. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: We continue to monitor breaking news out of Greece this morning, where a plane crashed northeast of Athens, as rescue crews scrambling. A Cyprus jetliner carrying 115 passengers and six crew members struck a mountain and crashed around noon local time. It happened in a seaside resort town near the historic city of Marathon.
Now rescue teams are at the crash site. You're looking at some video now of smoke still coming from the crash site. There are reports that the pilot was not in the cockpit, and that the co-pilot was slumped over the controls. Now there are no immediate reports of any survivors.
All of this information is still coming into CNN. We're going to sort it out and bring you the latest information as we get it.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HARRIS: And we are still monitoring this morning's breaking news of a passenger plane crashing in Greece early afternoon, Betty, in Greece. So that emergency teams, rescue crews, will get a good look at the crash site and try to determine if there are any survivors. 115 passengers, six crew members on this Cyprus jetliner. And we're getting developing information even as we speak -- Betty?
NGUYEN: Yes, but let's go to Paula Anastasi, a journalist in Greece, to talk about what he has learned about this crash. Are you with us? Tell us what you know.
PAUL ANASTASI, JOURNALIST: Yes, well, the latest reports are that the crash has caused a fire, a blaze, a forest fire in the area. Therefore, there is black smoke billowing everywhere. And this is hampering the efforts of the rescue teams. They can see that, you know, the damage is extensive. There's no sign of life. They can see bodies everywhere, but they cannot actually get to recovering the bodies because of the blaze. That has broken out on the mountainside.
Apart from that, from the government, from authorities' point of view, we have an emergency cabinet session presided over by the prime minister. All the ministers have rushed back into the capitol, into Athens because they were on holiday. This is an important national and religious holiday weekend.
There has been an official government announcement. They are explaining that they're in contact with the government in Cyprus, that in fact the Greek foreign minister is speaking directly with the president of Cyprus Tassos Papadopolous. And the two countries are cooperating in every way possible.
The interesting new information that's come out, and this is official, is that the plane was in fact heading for Athens, but its final destination was Prague in the Czech Republic.
Out of the 115 passengers, 59 adults and 8 children were scheduled to disembark at Athens Airport in Greece for this local holiday weekend.
There was another 46 adults and 2 children who were heading for Prague in the Czech Republic. So about half the passengers were to come down in Greece. And another half in the Czech Republic.
What is also being denied is initial reports that the passengers included about 80 children. No, they say they're about a dozen children aboard. And as I said, some of them were going to come off in Athens and some in Prague.
That's the latest information. All sides are confirming about there are no survivors. But that the blaze that has broken out probably from the fuel of the aircraft is hampering the efforts of the rescue teams to actually get to the bodies.
NGUYEN: And we were just looking at some video of rescue teams trying to manage that blaze. Paul Anastasi, a journalist there in Greece, thank you for that update. Some very good information, especially on those on board. The fact that many of them were children and that this is a local holiday weekend there.
HARRIS: And Betty, our top guy, of course, in all things sort of space and science and aeronautical, Miles O'Brien joins us. He's on the phone with us now. And Miles, you've heard a lot of reporting so far this morning. And I know you've been up and working your sources and on the web, getting information on this crash.
What can you tell us, based on what you've been able to find out and learn this morning?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, thanks very much, Tony. But of course, I think a lot of us this morning remember back October of 1999 and the crash of that Lear jet containing professional golfer Payne Stewart.
HARRIS: Payne Stewart, yes.
O'BRIEN: Have been thinking a lot about that scenario this morning. That's my initial indication on this, is this has haunting similarities. A plane that was unresponsive, scrambled with fighters, all this harkening back to that particular incident. Ultimately of course that Learjet crashed in South Dakota after a wild trip from Orlando, Florida, across. At the time of that incident, the fighter pilots noted incapacitation of the crew, frosted over windows. It was some sort of decompression. Never been conclusively determined what happened in that case.
What's interesting in this, couple things to look at here, number one, I have not heard what altitude this airplane was at at the time. That's obviously very crucial, right around 12,000, 14,000 feet is the point at which the human body starts to suffer adverse consequences from lack of oxygen. Hypoxia is the term. That's a key point, what altitude was this airplane at the time.
Another really key thing which I've seen just gleaning from what I've been reading this morning is that there was only one crew member in the flight deck at the time. Typically when you're at that higher altitude and one of the crew members leaves the flight deck, it is routine. It is standard practice for the remaining crew member to don an oxygen mask as a precaution. That's another scenario to look at. Of course if there were some sort of decompression on the airplane, anybody who's flown an airplane knows those masks are supposed to drop down in front of the passengers automatically, if the cabin altitude indicates that the altitude in that cabin is above 14,000 feet.
So in theory, the passengers have automatic support in a situation like this. The pilots have to manually put masks on. But, of course, they would be aware with some warnings inside the cockpit. So that's the first indication I would have is that it has the earmarks of some sort of decompression scenario but it's hard to follow this situation, how a rapid decompression would put this airliner in this situation.
HARRIS: Miles, let me give you a bit of information and see if this helps you. You can plug this into your computer here. Passengers apparently reported to friends through cell phone text messages that they were freezing, surely indicating some kind of problem with the air conditioning system. Does that help you in any way? O'BRIEN: Well, certainly, you know, your first assumption would be that the thermostat is off, but that could very well be the fact that, you know, there was outside air coming in. Obviously temperatures much, much colder at altitude and if for some reason there was some sort of leak on board that plane for lack of a better term, and outside air was getting in, it would be very cold. And so that might lead them to believe the air conditioner was inoperative when, in fact, maybe there wasn't a good seal on that airplane. But once again, that would be something that would be -- on a plane like this and this appears to be a relatively new 737 Boeing airplane, that sort of thing would be, you know, the cockpit would light up like a Christmas tree for the pilots to indicate there was a problem.
HARRIS: And Miles, one other thought here, we had a note that the auto pilot was on. Haven't confirmed it, but that is a note, among all the notes we're getting this morning, that the auto pilot was on. How would that help? What does that do in this situation? How long can the auto pilot take over and fly the plane before the pilot has to take control again?
O'BRIEN: Well, a couple thoughts there. First of all, you know, any time you're flying an airliner, you're almost always on auto pilot, takeoff and landing being the exception but that's airliner practice and standard for them to be flying on auto pilot. Typically what they would do in a situation like this is plug in the entire route of that aircraft and in theory that auto pilot would follow that route all the way. But it's difficult right now to get a sense of where -- why it would have ended up in Marathon. In the case of Payne Stewart it was ultimately fuel, loss of fuel, lack of fuel, fuel deprivation, that caused the crash in South Dakota.
HARRIS: Miles O'Brien for us, Miles we appreciate it. Thank you. And please give us a shout if you get any more information on this. Thank you.
NGUYEN: And of course we are going to follow this all morning long. So stay with us for that.
Now we want to give you a look at some of the other stories making news around the world today.
HARRIS: CNN has gained exclusive access to North Korea's chief nuclear weapons negotiator with highlights from that interview, Femi Oke joins us now from our sister network CNN international, Femi, good morning.
FEMI OKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you all. Let's start with that CNN exclusive, a rare interview with North Korea's vice foreign minister Kim Gye Kwan. (INAUDIBLE) during a visit to South Korea, the minister said that Pyongyang was ready to abandon its nuclear weapons and even have nuclear facilities monitored.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM GYE KWAN, NORTH KOREAN VICE FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): For someone who is so concerned with regard to our possible nuclear activities which could lead up to the manufacturing of nuclear weapons, then we can leave the operations and the strict supervision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OKE: The United States, the two Koreas, Russia, China and Japan will pick up discussions on North Korea's nuclear program at the end of this month.
To New Zealand now where the nation is mourning the passing of former prime minister David Lange. The colorful politician was famous for his sense of humor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) He would have been with us today wouldn't he, if he hadn't been detained by a full length mirror.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OKE: Lange is best known internationally for making New Zealand a nuclear free zone working off a defense agreement with the United States and Australia. He died Saturday at the age of 63 from kidney failure. And finally, back to Betty and Tony. I'm getting to the real meat of the segment now, but first do either of you guys work out?
NGUYEN: Every now and then. Tony does more than anybody.
HARRIS: Yeah. I need to.
OKE: He lives in the gym.
HARRIS: Yeah.
OKE: Then he might have a little ways to go to beat some of these guys.
NGUYEN: Wow, yeah. A long way to go.
OKE: Oh, yes. Let me introduce you to the contestants to the first ever Mr. Afghanistan competition.
HARRIS: There you go.
OKE: Just like Tony.
NGUYEN: And we laugh.
OKE: Yeah, 48 competitors took part in the competition held in the Afghan capital of Kabul. Goodness me, the sight of that and some vegetables, thank you very much. And the winner weighing in at 212 pounds, most of that was oil Lakshman Basheri (ph). Congratulations. We'll see you in just a moment. There we go. I asked them to cut this video extra long for journalistic reasons, of course.
NGUYEN: Of course. There he is.
OKE: Mr. Basheri, congratulations to you.
HARRIS: (INAUDIBLE) with oil.
NGUYEN: It helps with the definition, I guess.
OKE: Oh, my goodness. I have to go back to the news desk and relax.
NGUYEN: ... A glass of water.
OKE: I'm shaking.
HARRIS: Femi, thank you.
OKE: All right. Take care.
NGUYEN: Of course, we are still following that breaking news out of Greece where a plane has gone down, a Cyprus plane, from Larnaca, Cyprus to Athens, Greece. It has crashed in the side of a mountain around 12:00 noon local time there. There is no indication as to whether there are any survivors of this crash. There were 115 passengers on board, six crewmembers and we learned that there were fighter jets that were sent up to see what was going on with the plane because it wasn't sending out any signals. The pilots were not contacting anyone about their condition, the situation, and where they were headed to, and those F-16s were sent up and when they did, they looked into the window and saw that there was no sign of life in the cockpit. So there are a lot of questions surrounding this crash. We're looking at all of this and we will bring you the latest as soon as it becomes available to us. Stay tuned to CNN all morning long as we give you updates. We're going to take a quick break. You're watching CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: And here is the latest bulletin on the breaking news we've been following all morning for you here on CNN. The government of Greece has now confirmed there are no survivors from the crash of a Cypriot airliner. The crash happened about 12:00 noon local time and it has sparked fierce forest fires in an uninhabited area where the plane went down and the forest fires are obviously hindering efforts to recover all the bodies of the victims, 115 passengers, six crewmembers. The government said in an announcement just recently that the firefighting aircrafts are in the area and there are rescue teams on the ground, but this looks to be a recovery effort right now. The government of Greece confirming that there are no survivors of this crash. We'll continue to follow the latest developments in this story and bring you those updates as we get them.
NGUYEN: OK. Here's a story that is affecting everybody. No matter where you live, soaring prices at the pump are probably making you dig deeper in your pockets these days. AAA says the average price for a gallon of gas is around $2.41. So is there any relief in sight? Roben Farzad, a contributor to "Smart Money" magazine joins us now from New York with some answers. Before we get to those, it's one thing to complain about high gas prices. It's another thing altogether to understand what's causing it. So let's break it down, get to the root of the problem. What's causing these prices just to soar?
ROBEN FARZAD, SMARTMONEY MAGAZINE: Well, pick your poison. We have all sorts of issues, both on the supply and demand side. If you want to just look at the supply side, in the past week the world has been concentrating on the Iranians returning to uranium enrichment and there could be sanction implications that could cut off the supply of oil. OPEC is operating at full tilt. The refineries here and abroad are operating at full tilt and even so, we've had about 14 refinery shutdowns in the past month. On the demand side, sure, we keep breaking new levels, $30 oil, $40 oil, $50 oil, now $60, can we hear $70? and yet people are still...
NGUYEN: Don't ask for 70. It could happen.
FARZAD: People are still laughing this stuff up. It's kind of really setting a new precedent and then throw in speculation from hedge funds and traders and we just really don't know where the top is.
NGUYEN: You said people are still lapping it up. We're still driving around in our cars, many of us have SUVs, a lot of cars that require lots and lots of gasoline and that equates to a lot of money. So at some point, when is this really going to start affecting the economy, sending it into a downward spiral perhaps?
FARZAD: Well, this kind of speaks to the strength of the economy. You have a very resilient economy in that we can absorb the hit of higher oil prices. I mean oil prices are up 50 percent in the past year, and the Treasury secretary recently commented that this could take as much as a half a point out of GDP, economic activity here. I mean you pretty much get the sticker shock every time you go to the pump. If you're spending another $20 to fill up, that's $20 you're not spending at Wal-Mart or on other items on clothing, on other goods. So it has its hit, but I wonder what the ultimate sticker shock is. Will people think twice when it hits $3 a gallon for gasoline? The verdict is still out.
NGUYEN: How far does it have to go? Because you say right now, the economy is absorbing this hit, but at some point it's going to reach a trickle down effect, correct?
FARZAD: Right. Well, consumers have been lucky for the most part because corporations have been holding off from passing down fuel price increases to customers. Let's take the airlines for instance. They've probably been the hardest hit, if you take any fortune 500 cluster of companies. You have Delta on the brink of bankruptcy. Northwest is talking about bankruptcy. United and U.S. Air have already visited bankruptcy court and these guys are really, you know, spending a tremendous amount on jet fuel and they can't increase this, they can't pass this on to consumers to travelers and ticket prices. This past week we finally did see the airlines come together and push through a price increase to kind of help them cope with these higher jet fuel prices. And to the extent you start seeing this in the retail realm where it's costing more to deliver goods, where raw materials cost more, if you start to see this in groceries.
NGUYEN: That means that we're going to be paying more, bottom line. Quickly though if you would, when we talk about the problem, let's talk about what can be done. Is there a solution? Are we talking about alternative fuel, hybrid cars, what's the solution here?
FARZAD: It sounds great but it's going to take a while for that movement to kick in. Hybrid vehicles are getting a lot of press. A lot of Hollywood actors drive them. It's just this feel good thing to have and it's great to save the money on gasoline, but it doesn't even represent really a sliver of automobile use in the United States. Even if you project it out to 10 years, it's not going to represent all that much at, you know, current manufacturing capacity.
What this is going to take is a true commitment to reducing America's dependency on foreign oil. We consume 25 percent of the world's oil and to the extent that you're seeing people talk about this at cocktail parties, people are complaining about prices at the pump. You're seeing more press coverage. This is going to become a bigger national policy issue and the country really has to want to tackle this head on.
NGUYEN: All right. Now the country is at least talking about it. Roben Farzad, "Smart Money" magazine, thank you.
FARZAD: Thank you.
NGUYEN: The web site gasbuddy.com can help you find cheaper gas. All you have to do is log on and type in your zip code or click on your state and you can find out where the lowest and the highest gas prices are in your area.
And that brings us to our e-mail question this morning. Are high gas prices causing you to change your spending habits? And what are you cutting from your budget to compensate? E-mail us at weekends@cnn.com and we'll read some of those comments all morning long.
HARRIS: And let's get back to our breaking news story this morning. A Cypriot plane has gone down just north of Athens near the town of Marathon in an uninhabited area. The plane crashed into a mountain. John Wiley is on the phone with us and John is a former Airbus pilot. He flew the 737. That's the aircraft involved in this crash, for years. John, good morning.
JOHN WILEY, FMR. AIRBUS PILOT: Good morning.
HARRIS: John, tell us about that 737, the type of aircraft we're talking about here.
WILEY: From a quick search we know that Helios flies one 737 300. They have two 737 800s. The 800s are part of what Boeing refers to as their new generation 737s. 737 is a work horse. It's been around for a long time. It has a good record. The 800 is a -- as I mentioned a newer version with updated systems on it and let's see, the 800 carries about 129 feet long and up to 184 passengers. HARRIS: Yeah.
WILEY: The 300 is one of the first of the versions where they changed the engines and stuff and the 300 is about 149 passengers in an all economy configuration. Simple airplane to fly. And basically medium to short range flight plan is what they're used for mostly.
HARRIS: John, quick question, what do you think happened here? We understand that at a certain point, F-16s were scrambled and the pilots of the F-16s were able to get close enough to take a look into the cockpit and saw no real sign of life. Miles has suggested that perhaps there was some kind of decompression scenario that took place here. What do you think?
WILEY: Well, certainly from that information it would lead to the possible supposition. Procedures are that crews, I don't know what cruise altitude they were at, I would suppose they were above 18,000 feet, half the oxygen atmosphere is below 18,000 feet. Most people misunderstand it's not less oxygen content. It's just less pressure to push those little tiny air molecules through the walls of your lungs so that you can breathe and remain conscious. Above 18,000 feet, we have what's referred to as TUC, which is time of useful consciousness. And above 18,000 feet, that time of useful consciousness starts to rapidly diminishing to the point where above 40,000 feet you could pass out very quickly. Typically when one pilot leaves the cockpit, the other pilot puts on the oxygen mask and is breathing oxygen. As we know from watching the briefings in the back, when the masks come down in the back, people are supposed to put those on. I understand from reading one of the reports that the fighters were able to see that the masks were down, so apparently we do have some sort of depressurization. That typically occurs at approximately 14,000 feet cabin altitude. Pressurization system much like your bathtub in that oxygen flowing into the cabin and they have an outflow valve so like water in your tub, you've got water coming in, you pull the stopper and the water goes out.
HARRIS: I see.
WILEY: But if you have a problem where you can't close that valve off and pressurize it, you can't fill the tub. You can't fill the airplane with air, and so you lose pressurization. You lose pressurization and we're back to the problem of 18,000 feet.
HARRIS: Right. OK, John Wiley, great information. John, thank you.
WILEY: Have a good morning.
HARRIS: Thank you.
NGUYEN: That is some very good information. Of course, all morning long, we are going to be following this breaking news, this crash of a Helios airliner in Greece, 115 passengers on board, six crewmembers. We're learning so much information by the minute so you want to stay tuned to CNN SUNDAY MORNING as we continue with the updates. Going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: In Ohio yesterday, the funeral for local war hero Lance Corporal Brett Wightman. Wightman was among five Ohio Marines killed two weeks ago by a roadside bomb explosion in Iraq. Lance Barry of CNN affiliate WCPO reports Wightman was buried with full military honors.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LANCE BARRY, WCPO CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Twenty one guns for a Clinton County hero. His casket wrapped in the flag, representing the country that he loved so much.
STEPHANIE MORETON, WIGHTMAN FAMILY FRIEND: He always wanted to be a Marine since he was three years old. That was his life-long dream.
BARRY: Hundreds packed East Clinton High's football stands for his funeral service. Some like Charlene Burns, arriving early for a private moment with the fallen Marine.
CHARLENE BURNS, MOURNER: You know the fact that he just gave his life for his country and here he was half way across the world and yet he was willing to make that sacrifice.
BARRY: Wightman was a popular student at East Clinton, the prom king and a standout athlete, in fact, the captain on the football team. Current members of that squad, wearing the school's red and white, remember him well.
JUSTIN STEWART, EAST CLINTON H.S. STUDENT: I watched him senior year play Clinton mass (ph). He had a separated shoulder, played the whole game with it. He knew it was going to be his last game and might as well go all out for it.
BARRY: It was that mentality that made him a standout Marine, according to the man responsible for his training.
CWO ORRIN BOWMAN, USMC: Lance Corporal Wightman really was determined. He wanted to be a good Marine and he was a good Marine.
BARRY: And now that good Marine is back home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Again, that report by Lance Barry of CNN affiliate WCPO.
We want to give you an update now on that plane crash that we have been following all morning long. We're learning some new information and we're going to go to Josef Pazderka with Czech TV. Josef, I understand that you just spoke with the prime minister of the Czech Republic. What did he tell you? Josef, are you there? Obviously we are having some technical difficulties trying to get Josef Pazderka with Czech TV on. When we do get him, we will try to get that to you. Of course we are following the story of the plane crash in Greece near Marathon, Greece, where a Cypriot plane from Larnaca, Cyprus, to Athens Greece, crashed around noon local time with 115 passengers on board, six crewmembers. We have learned that there are no survivors according to the Greek government there. Stay with us. We'll have much more. All right. I am learning right now that Josef Pazderka...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: We are keeping you informed on breaking news from Greece. There are no reports of survivors from the crash of a Cyprus jetliner, 121 passengers and crew were aboard the Helios airways plane. It was flying from Larnaca, Cyprus, to Greece when it crashed in the mountains north of Athens. Rescue teams at the scene report the airliner burst into flames.
Jewish settlers are now on deadline. Israel has given them until Wednesday to withdrawal from Gaza and parts of the west bank. After that, they will be forcibly removed. Some have vowed not to leave. The evacuations start tomorrow.
NGUYEN: And we are still gathering new details of breaking news, a plane from Cyprus carrying 115 passengers and six crewmembers has crashed in Greece. As I told you earlier, we do have Josef Pazderka from Czech TV on the phone and I understand Joseph that you spoke with the prime minister of the Czech Republic. What were you told?
JOSEF PAZDERKA, CZECH TV: Yeah. We have spoken with the Czech prime minister quite recently and he said so far he hasn't gotten any information there were Czechs aboard the plane. He said six to seven passengers were about to get off in Athens and the remaining of the 115 should head to Prague. We also got the information from the airport in Prague and according to our information -- that were no Czechs waiting for the plane at 1:00 p.m. today, so it supposedly confirms the information that were no Czechs. The prime minister also said he is trying to clarify the information about the nationality of remaining 15 passengers and he didn't exclude, there might be some Czech, but so far, there is no such information.
NGUYEN: But at this point, have you been able to get your eyes on that flight list to see for sure?
PAZDERKA: No, he said -- he's not 100 percent sure that there was no Czechs, but he said so far he hasn't got any information that someone is waiting for a Czech at all, that there's a Czech missing who was supposedly flying on the plane.
NGUYEN: Is there a hotline or anything set up for family members who may be watching this and trying to find out if their family member was, indeed, on that plane?
PAZDERKA: Yeah, there is a hotline with the minister of foreign affairs, and we've recently also spoke with the Czech ambassador in Athens and are trying to clarify who was exactly aboard on the plane, and whether there were really some Czechs or not. But the information so far we have and the authorities have, there was no Czech aboard.
NGUYEN: Joseph Pazderka with Czech TV, thank you for that update. And of course, we're going to continue with this story -- Tony.
HARRIS: Journalist Paul Anastasi joins us now. He's on the phone with us. Paul, how are you? Are you there? Paul Anastasi.
PAUL ANASTASI, JOURNALIST: Yes, I'm here.
HARRIS: Hello, Paul.
ANASTASI: Can you hear me?
HARRIS: Ah, there you go, there you go, I can hear you. And I just want to make sure, you're in Greece now, correct?
ANASTASI: That's right. I'm in Athens, yes.
HARRIS: All right. You're in Athens. What have you been able to learn about the circumstances surrounding this crash?
ANASTASI: Well, a series of announcements have come out officially from the government, from the various departments, as they are confirming that there are no survivors. One hundred and fifteen passengers and six crewmembers have apparently died in this crash.
The new information that has surfaced is that about 59 adults and eight children were scheduled to come off in Athens, Greece, for this local weekend religious holiday, mid-summer holiday, but that another 46 adults and two children were heading for Prague, for the Czech capital.
But according to the Cyprus government spokesperson, Mr. Krishostomidis (ph), it appears that all the passengers were Cypriots, Greek Cypriots, and only maybe one, the co-pilot, was a German. There does not seem to be any other foreign nationals aboard.
Now, as for the crash site itself, rescue teams are there. They have confirmed that there are bodies and debris everywhere, but a fire has broken out as a result of the crash. There's a forest fire. And so, there are about 11 planes and helicopters tossing water -- dousing the area with water, so that the rescue team can actually get to the bodies.
The third part of this drama is -- speculation as to what could have happened, what could have caused the crash. The terrorism theory, one of foul play, a criminal act, is receding. There doesn't seem to be any indication of foul play. Now, other theories are surfacing as to a technical problem that must have arisen, that is either decompression, or the oxygen system was poisoned, or something went wrong with the air conditioning, and this led to the pilot's or co-pilot and the passengers being knocked out, and, of course, losing control of the plane.
So the idea that a technical problem arose that led to the crash is gaining more and more ground.
HARRIS: Hey, Paul, just to clarify here, when you say that the air system may have been poisoned, you don't mean to suggest by foul play, do you?
ANASTASI: Not by foul play necessarily, no. In other words, there could have been a leakage.
HARRIS: Yeah.
ANASTASI: Experts are pointing out that the air conditioning system is fed, let's say, supplied from the engine. Carbon dioxide could have gone into the oxygen system, because the pilots, the jet fighter plane pilots that went right up to the plane as it was coming down...
HARRIS: That's right.
ANASTASI: ... noted that the oxygen masks had come down. There are -- they noted that the pilot was not in his place. He must have rushed back into the -- with the other crewmembers. They noted that the co-pilot was slumped over the controls. He seemed to be either dead or knocked out.
There are various indications -- there is also a report that this particular plane had some technical difficulties a week ago, even a day ago, and was undergoing checks, and that this problem could have arisen in mid-flight. But as I said, the terrorism theory is receding.
HARRIS: OK, Paul -- OK, Paul Anastasi, a journalist in Athens for us. Paul, thank you.
NGUYEN: In other news today, some Jewish settlers are packing up everything, including the kitchen sink. Others are vowing they won't go without a fight. About nine hours from now, midnight local time, is the deadline for the historic pullout to begin in Gaza and the West Bank. CNN correspondent Guy Raz is at a settlement, and he joins us now live with the movement there -- Guy.
GUY RAZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Betty, the calm before the storm here in the Gaza settlements and really throughout Israel and the Palestinian territories. Let's begin in Jerusalem, where thousands of Jewish worshipers gathered at the Western Wall -- that's Judaism's holiest site -- for prayers marking the end of a three-week commemoration period, mourning the destruction of two Biblical Jewish temples.
Now, security was beefed up around that site. There were fears that there could have been clashes between Jewish worshipers and Muslim worshipers, but the prayers passed without incident.
A bit closer to where we are now, just beyond these Gaza settlements, on the Palestinian side of Gaza, Palestinian security forces have started to deploy all along the Gaza settlements, just on the outskirts, in a bid to ensure that Palestinian militants do not attack the Gaza settlements during the evacuation period. The Israeli army says it will retaliate if it is attacked during that period of evacuation. Meanwhile, here, inside of the Gaza settlements, the residents and their supporters are marking that commemoration period, the mourning period, commemorating the destruction of two Biblical temples. Many of the people are drawing comparisons between those events and the demise of the Gaza settlements.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAZ (voice-over): A funeral pyre for a dying community. Burning the things they cannot carry away. It's Tisha B'Av, the peak of the Jewish mourning period marking the destruction of the two ancient Jewish temples. And destruction is on the minds of many.
The teary-eyed rabbi of this community, Josef Helnikave (ph), declares himself heartsick, comparing the demise of the Gaza settlements to the ancient tragedies that befell the Jews.
Inside the settlement's synagogue, the men rock back and forth, weary and hungry, fasting to cleanse their souls. Ritual demands they suffer the emotional pain of their ancient ancestors.
Others in this settlement are less gloomy, though. Moti Ohayon (ph) is moving out before the army arrives on Monday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We must begin a new life. It's sad to leave here, but it's possible the new place will be better, a better life, a happier life. It's all possible.
RAZ: In the settlement cemetery, neighbors gather, a final memorial service for those buried here. These graves will soon be reinterred inside Israel, where the majority of the country backs the end of the settlement enterprise in Gaza. But the ideological lines between secular and religious Israel are now sharper than ever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope that the Israeli society will think again about this step, which they began to do.
RAZ: On a street in Novei de Colene (ph), a family pulls out for one last time. The national flag waves from the truck. For a moment, right before it falls as well, the end of Israel's presence in the Gaza Strip.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RAZ: Betty, some time after midnight tonight, the Israeli army is expected to begin fanning out throughout all 21 of the Jewish settlements in Gaza, essentially notifying the remaining settlers they've got 48 hours to pack up and move out.
Now, those who do not move out by midnight on the 16th of August stand to lose about a third of the compensation that they've been promised by the Israeli government -- Betty.
NGUYEN: Guy Raz, thank you so much for that.
HARRIS: And now to Iraq. Lawmakers hope to have a draft constitution finished by today. Monday is the U.S.-imposed deadline. Leaders have agreed that oil revenues will be distributed to all regions, but there's still some doubt a final deal will be reached. "The New York Times" reports U.S. troops are still waiting to get new body armor. The Pentagon admits it will take several more months to send thicker, upgraded plates for vests. The delay means thousands of troops are on the front lines wearing armor that doesn't always protect them.
The U.S. military is analyzing chemicals found at an abandoned storage site in northern Iraq. The chemicals are commonly used for industrial purposes, but experts say they could also be used to produce weapons.
NGUYEN: Well, seven more U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq since Friday, most died during several roadside bombings. The Army is investigating the shooting death of one soldier on Friday. Meanwhile, family and friends gathered for the funeral of one Marine killed earlier this month. Marine Lance Corporal Brett Wightman. He was buried with full military honors at his home town in southwest Ohio yesterday. Wightman and four other Marines were killed two weeks ago by a roadside bomb explosion in Iraq. Friends also prayed -- or paid their respects to Lance Corporal Timothy Bell Jr., who was also in the same Marine company as Wightman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIMOTHY BELL, SR., LOST SON IN IRAQ: We hugged a long time, because I just -- you know, I knew I wasn't going to see him for a long time, and I told him I'm going to leave, I told him I'm not going to look back, because I'm just going to go ahead and go. And as I turned around, he grabbed me, he said "dad, hold on." And he handed me his Marine ring that he got for graduation, and he told me to wear it. But he wanted it back when he got home. So (INAUDIBLE), I'll wear it forever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Marine Lance Corporal Timothy Bell Jr. was 22 years old. To date, 1,850 troops have died in Iraq; 52 of them in this month alone. CNN SUNDAY MORNING will continue in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: We are following breaking news this morning, the crash of a passenger plane in Greece. New images from the crash site show a grim picture. Greek authorities have confirmed there are no survivors.
Now, there were 121 people on board that plane, which was from Cyprus. The plane crashed in the mountains near the historic city of Marathon -- there you see on the map -- Helios Airline flight 522 was bound for Athens, originating from Larnaca, Cyprus. And we will keep you posted on the latest information on this crash as it becomes available to us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS: And updating our breaking news -- the breaking news we've been following all morning long. Greek authorities have confirmed there are no survivors after a plane carrying 121 people crashed northeast of Athens. Children are among the dead. There are reports the pilot was not in the cockpit, and the co-pilot was slumped over the controls. The Cyprus plane slammed into a mountain near the historic city of Marathon. We'll continue to follow this story, and bring you the latest developments as we get them.
NGUYEN: Well, all of the missing are now accounted for after a tornado ripped through the eastern Wyoming community of Wright. Two people were killed. Residents of a mobile home park lost almost everything when the twister hit on Friday. People are still picking through their belongings, trying to salvage whatever they can. Some complain they had only five minutes' warning to get out of the storm's path.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I looked out the hallway window and seen the trampoline and all the debris flying through the air. So I told my girlfriend to lay down on the floor. We no more than got face down on the floor, and our trailer house started rolling down the street.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Weather experts say the tornado had winds from 113 to 130 miles an hour.
HARRIS: Boy, we've got hot, humid conditions in the East, we've got storms in the Ohio valley, and we've got tornadoes.
NGUYEN: A busy Bonnie Schneider, that's what we've got.
HARRIS: Bonnie, bring us up to date on everything.
(WEATHER REPORT)
NGUYEN: And we do continue to monitor the latest developments in Greece on that Cypriot jetliner crash. We'll bring you those updates just as soon as we get them.
HARRIS: Also, is there a place for political battles in the pulpit? We'll take a closer look at that issue in our "Faces of Faith." CNN SUNDAY MORNING continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: We are following breaking news this morning of a deadly passenger plane crash in Greece. The Cypriot jetliner carrying 121 people crashed northeast of Athens. The government of Greece confirms there are no survivors. Now, there are reports the pilot was not in the cockpit and the co-pilot was slumped over the controls. A lot of questions here. We're going to search for answers. The plane did slam into a mountain near the historic city of Marathon. It was en route from Cyprus to Athens, and we will continue to update you on this story.
HARRIS: In our "Faces of Faith" this Sunday morning, we're taking a look at an evangelical rally called Justice Sunday II. The rally takes place today in Nashville, Tennessee, and it is designed to drum up support for President Bush's Supreme Court nominee John Roberts. Some liberal groups say Christian conservatives should not drag religion into the confirmation fight.
Here to talk about that from Colorado is Ted Haggard of the National Association of Evangelicals, and Bishop Jerry Maynard, who joins us from Nashville. Gentlemen, good to talk to you both.
BISHOP JERRY MAYNARD, CATHEDRAL OF PRAISE: Good morning.
TED HAGGARD, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF EVANGELICALS: Thank you. Good to be here.
HARRIS: Well, Ted, let me start with you. Everyone that I've heard interviewed or talked to myself on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which has the job of this confirmation hearing starting in September, says they're not influenced, not influenced by events like today's Justice Sunday II. Do you believe it?
HAGGARD: I believe it to a degree. This is a program directed toward Christians to encourage them to be involved in the process as citizens. And so the Judiciary Committee needs to do their job, and I'm sure they will hear from some of their constituents, but that's not the primary target of this broadcast.
HARRIS: And the primary target is just to continue to bring the base together?
HAGGARD: Well, not really that. We're not a political group per se. We are a group that believes in democracy. We believe we're in a pluralistic society, where people of faith need to have a voice, not the voice. And so, all we're doing is we're trying to inform the people in our churches -- this is a downlink into churches -- and we're trying to inform people in churches that they -- for everything that they believe, that affects political process. If you believe that the Earth is God's creation and we're stewards of it, then that influences public policy. If you believe that a fetus is a human being, that influences public policy. If you believe that the Constitution should be defended and protected, that influences public policy. And so we're just encouraging people in churches to be active and involved.
HARRIS: Bishop, are you going to take part in Justice Sunday II?
MAYNARD: No, I will not be taking part in Justice Sunday. What I'm going to do is show that I am a Christian and there are many Christians who believe that the role of the church should be that to include all people. Candidates who are running for office should be those who represent all people, and that we should not have some people set aside to represent just some people.
HARRIS: What people? What people? Be specific. Yeah, be specific.
HAGGARD: That's ridiculous. People -- nobody represents all people. I serve -- I serve the National Association of Evangelicals. There are 30 million evangelicals in that group. And when you say anything, you don't represent all people. That's why we have elections, and that's why the person that wins the majority in the election is able to serve in office.
MAYNARD: Well, I believe that people run for office and people win. However, when you say that you represent the Christian belief, I do believe that you have to deal with that issue. We're talking about a Supreme Court justice who will be on the Supreme Court. We need very much to understand that we have problems in our nation, and one of the things that we have in our nation is the fact that there are people who are not included. They have to be included. You cannot legislate salvation. We need to understand that that is the role of a church to ...
HAGGARD: Yeah, but nobody's saying that, Bishop, with all due respect. Nobody is saying legislate salvation, and nobody is having this broadcast tonight for Roberts. Number one, Roberts is not running for office. He's been nominated by the president. There's going to be reasonable hearings. Hopefully, there will be an up-and- down voice in the Senate. He's not in a representative position. He's there to interpret the Constitution and make sure the laws adhere to the Constitution. That's his role.
MAYNARD: And I think that...
HAGGARD: We're not saying -- he's not running for office. He's not representing anybody. He is there to defend the Constitution, and so this whole line of reasoning is illogical.
MAYNARD: Well, thank you very much for your assessment, but I don't share it with you, and I'm sure that you understand that.
HAGGARD: So do you believe that Judge Roberts is running for office?
MAYNARD: I don't believe that Judge Roberts is running for office any more than you are.
HAGGARD: OK.
MAYNARD: But I do believe that those of you who have decided that you are going to come together and try to influence the people of Congress to pass on his nomination, I think that we need to understand that there are many Americans out there, many Christians out there -- I don't subscribe to the notion that I've heard some of you all say, that if you don't vote for this person or if you don't support this person in his nomination, that that appears to be non-Christian. I want you to know I'm very much a Christian, and there are so many of us out here who are.
HAGGARD: Sure.
HARRIS: And Ted, let me allow you to have the final word on this.
HAGGARD: Sure. Well, I would say Justice Sunday isn't about any of that that was just spoken about. Justice Sunday is for the process, it's for the constitutional process. It's saying it's a good one, that Judge Roberts needs to have a fair hearing in front of the Judiciary Committee, and he needs to be recommended or not recommended to the Senate, and there needs to be an up-and-down vote. We are not saying we represent all Christens. We are not saying we're speaking for all Christens. We're not saying Judge Roberts is running for office. We're just saying the constitutional process is a good one and people should be involved.
HARRIS: And on Sunday, I fibbed. All right, Bishop, you get 10 seconds.
MAYNARD: Well, thank you very much. I heard what he said, but there -- it should be known that there are many of us out here who believe in inclusion of people in the process and not in the exclusion.
HARRIS: OK. Gentlemen, thank you, both. Well, that was easy for me.
HAGGARD: Thank you. Thank you.
NGUYEN: Kind of took over there.
HARRIS: Thank you.
NGUYEN: Well, we are still following that breaking news this morning of a deadly passenger plane crash in Greece. The Cyprus jetliner carrying 121 people crashed northeast of Athens. The Greek government confirms there are no survivors.
Now, there are reports that the pilot was not in the cockpit and the co-pilot was slumped over the controls. The plane did slam into a mountain near the historic city of Marathon. It was en route from Cyprus to Athens. We're going to continue to follow all of this and try to solve some of these questions that remain as to exactly what happened on board that plane. CNN SUNDAY MORNING continues in just a moment.
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