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CNN Sunday Morning
One Ohio Company Suffers Heavy Losses in Iraq; Wildfires in California Still Raging; Bali Bombings Details; Who Will Replace Sandra Day O'Connor?
Aired October 02, 2005 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And now in the news. One person is dead after an explosion near the University of Oklahoma football stadium Saturday night. Investigators are treating the case as a possible suicide. University officials say at no time was anyone in the stadium in danger. The OU football team was playing Kansas State at the time.
The wildfire near Burbank, California is spreading. And about 60 homeowners have evacuated. The good news is firefighters believe they may have the massive wildfire near Los Angeles contained by tomorrow night. The blaze began Wednesday near Chatsworth and has quickly charred 24,000 acres.
And they should be off and running in the 21st Annual Army 10 Miler. This is a live picture now of Washington, D.C. It's billed as the nation's largest 10 mile road race with some 20,000 runners from all 50 states and 27 countries. Some U.S. Army wives are running, since their husbands are serving in Iraq.
And from the CNN Center in Atlanta, this is CNN SUNDAY MORNING. It is October 2nd. Good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris.
FREDERICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Fredericka Whitfield in for Betty Nguyen this morning. Thanks so much for being with us.
Looking ahead to what's coming up this hour, our Chris Lawrence updates the Crescent City's efforts to return to normal. He calls it a tale of two cities. Our investigative unit takes up the case of the missing generator. Drew Griffin reports at least a dozen New Orleans police officers stand accused of misconduct. And with gas prices and home heating costs inching toward record highs, are energy alternatives out there? Alino Cho talks to one homeowner who gets money back from the power company.
Terror in Bali. That's our top story. Authorities believe suicide bombers carried out yesterday's attacks on Indonesia's resort island. The explosion, or one of them, as it happened. This morning, we have new amateur video showing how a quiet dinner turned into chaos and horror after an explosion went off in a Bali restaurant.
It was just one of several blasts that killed at least 25 people wounded. More than 100 others. Journalist John Aglionby joins us now from Bali with the very latest. And John, you joined us yesterday and gave us a great picture of what was happening at the time at the start of the investigation. How are things going now? JOHN AGLIONBY, REPORTER, THE GUARDIAN: President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has just briefed the media here in Bali, where he's overseeing investigation briefly. And he said that he's convinced that all three explosions are caused by suicide bombers wearing explosives around their waists and belts, also containing ball bearings and other shrapnel. And that as the news exploded that the shrapnel and ball bearings scattered everywhere, causing such mayhem.
President Yudhoyono declined to say who he believes is responsible or why they did it. But he says they are following up good leads, particularly emanating from the body parts that are left at the scene of the explosion, and that they are following these body parts. And they hope that they will be able to identify the perpetrators and bring the other people involved to justice as quickly as possible.
WHITFIELD: Now John, there have been other suicide - other terror attacks there in various parts of Indonesia. Is this a first or is this unusual that suicide bombers would be used?
AGLIONBY: No, it's not unusual at all. The 2002 Bali bombing was also considered a suicide blast. Except that time, they used a car full of gasoline. And basically, it was a moving car bomb.
The terrorists have now adjusted their strategies, because they, in fact, they realize that the authorities have sort of clamped down on the possibility of using car bombs now. So they're using smaller devices which can be carried more easily by individuals.
And now the president admitted they're going to have to set up their campaign against terrorism. They're going to have to face this new threat. But at the same time, they don't want to turn the whole country into the fortress and particularly the resort island of Bali.
WHITFIELD: And John, in 2002, the reference you're making for the last very sizeable explosion, where 202 people were killed, among the majority, Australian tourists. In this case, 25 killed. What do we know about the victims?
AGLIONBY: Twenty-six killed. And one Japanese and two Australians, possibly three Australians. Not yet confirmed. And the rest are Indonesians.
The site for the terrorists targeted, while popular with Westerners, were much more popular with locals. And so, it seems that they were focusing on soft targets and - rather than overtly Western or tourist oriented targets.
WHITFIELD: John Aglionby, thank you so much for that report out of Bali. Tony?
HARRIS: Operation Iron Fist is the U.S. military's latest initiative to take out the insurgency in Western Iraq. This is video from Sada. A Syrian border town considered an entry point for terrorists coming into Iraq. In one day, the Marine led operation has killed eight insurgents. CNN's Aneesh Raman is live in Baghdad. Aneesh, good morning.
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tony, good morning. This operation comes just two weeks ahead of that critical vote in Iraq on the country's constitution. As you say, Operation Iron Fist launching yesterday morning in the town of Sada. That's in Al Anbar Province in western Iraq, a hotbed of consistently of insurgent activity.
They have killed, as you mentioned, at least eight suspected insurgents so far. Some 1,000 U.S. troops involved in this sweep and clean operation going house to house, trying not just to route out the insurgents that are having safe haven in that area, but as you mentioned really, cutting off the flow of foreign fighters that continues to come into Iraq along that porous Syrian-Iraqi border.
So they hope again to try and curb the bombs that are coming in, the weapons that are coming in, and then make their way into the capitol city, especially around events like October 15th.
The U.S. president, as well as Iraqi officials have warned that we would see a spike in violence towards that date.
Now also, Tony, worth mentioning yesterday, the U.S. military releasing another 500 detainees from Abu Ghraib prison. It brings to total 1,000 detainees released just last week, a sign of goodwill from the U.S. military at the behest of the Iraqi government to the population here ahead of the holy month of Ramadan that begins in just three days.
They are hoping that that will help increase voter turnout, a key number that we'll be looking at on October 15th - Tony?
HARRIS: Aneesh, you mentioned the detainees released. 1,000 now. The question has to be asked, were these bad guys or not? Who's being released?
RAMAN: Well, the - yes, the military - it's a very valid point. And the military was quick to point out that these were low level detainees. None of them involved in any potential bombings or in suspected kidnappings.
But it does raise the question, as you said, if they could be released now, why were they being held? And for a lot of Iraqis, there is incredible frustration at the number that are being held at Abu Ghraib without reason being given to the families.
But this gesture, if you will, of goodwill, trying to release those that might not be or clearly are not the worst criminals as a sign towards the community that there is some sort of bridge being - dividing bridge, Tony.
HARRIS: OK, Aneesh Raman in Baghdad for us. Aneesh, thank you.
The Iraq War along with Hurricanes Katrina and Rita are keeping a lot of pressure on President Bush, according to the latest CNN and "USA Today" opinion poll. CNN's Elaine Quijano tells us how the Bush administration hopes to change the public's perception of the president and his performance rating.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two weeks before Iraqis vote on a new constitution, President Bush warns of a possible uptick in violence.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The difficult and dangerous work still lies ahead. The terrorists have a history of escalating their attacks before Iraq's major political milestones. And two elections are fast approaching.
QUIJANO: Political success in Iraq is tied closely to President Bush's own political standing. His overall approval ratings have hovered around 40 percent. And a new "Newsweek" poll shows 62 percent disapprove of the president's handling of Iraq.
MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: I think the main liability for President Bush is Iraq. I mean, let's face it, this is the centerpiece of his presidency, the major decision that he made.
QUIJANO: To turn around negative perceptions, the administration is stepping up its efforts to tout what officials call progress in Iraq and the larger war on terror.
In his weekly radio address, the president explained one way in which the U.S. is working with Iraqi troops.
BUSH: By leaving Iraqi units in the cities we have cleared out, we can keep those cities safe, while moving on to hunt down the terrorists in other parts of the country.
QUIJANO (on camera): Monday, the vice president heads to Camp LeJeune, North Carolina to talk to Marines there. And on Thursday, President Bush will deliver remarks on the war on terror here in Washington.
It's part of the administration's concerted effort to rally faltering public support for the president's Iraq policy.
Elaine Quijano, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Throughout the day on CNN, we'll be focusing on the rebuilding of the Gulf Coast region in the aftermath of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. New Orleans takes another significant step toward recovery. The Army Corps of Engineers expects to finish pumping out the city's lower Ninth Ward by the middle of the week, but there may still be some isolated pools of water.
The Ninth Ward was flooded by both hurricanes. No word yet on when residents will be allowed to return to their homes. New Orleans is a city in paradox. As we've seen in the last week, in some areas the streets are dry, the power's back on, and resident's are returning. Well, some semblance of normalcy.
In other areas, quite the contrary. CNN's Chris Lawrence reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Music is playing again in parts of New Orleans, but it's dead silent in George Brumat's jazz club which still has no power.
Any idea when it's going to come up?
GEORGE BRUMATT, JAZZ CLUB OWNER: Only rumors. Only rumors. It's been five weeks now.
LAWRENCE: It has been more than a month. And many New Orleans hospitals are still shut down. In devastated St. Bernard Parish, the sheriff says less than one in four homeowners had flood insurance. Across the city, homes saturated with water have mold growing everywhere. And the city literally stinks.
BRUMAT: This is the fifth week they haven't even picked up the trash.
LAWRENCE: Mayor Ray Nagin is asking the federal government to provide an income tax credit for people who live and work in the city. He also wants a light rail train to Baton Rouge to avoid traffic jams. And he wants authorities to reinforce the levees to withstand a Category 5 storm.
Nagin is trying to bring people back to the city, but some residents like Brumat say the mayor helped drive them away with exaggerated reports of violence and by saying early on that as many as 10,000 people could be dead.
BRUMAT: All that did was convince the young people to get the hell out of here and work somewheres else. And in fact, they're doing so in droves.
LAWRENCE: There is life along Bourbon Street, as some bars and restaurants reopened. And the suburb of Metairie is back on its feet.
And while the storm destroyed hundreds of businesses in New Orleans, it could lead to a boom in others.
(on camera): The demand for roofers and contractors is just unheard of. Now some of the areas we've seen look like they could be back up and running in a matter of months. For others, looks more like years.
Chris Lawrence, CNN, New Orleans.
(END VIDEOTAPE) WHITFIELD: This now brings us to our e-mail question this morning. After the devastation caused by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, should your tax dollars be used to help rebuild the Gulf Coast Region? E-mail us at weekends@cnn.com. We'll read some of your comments coming up later on in the program.
HARRIS: And (INAUDIBLE), it's a topic we'll be following all day on CNN, rebuilding the Gulf, problems, politics, and paying the bill. Later this afternoon at 4:00 Eastern, tune into CNN for a look at where to begin the rebuilding process.
WHITFIELD: And with the new chief justice on the job, what can you expect during this year's term? And who's likely to replace Sandra Day O'Connor? Find out next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
HARRIS: And police are sworn to protect and serve, but in New Orleans, some officers are under the microscope for their actions during Katrina. CNN investigates later this hour.
And good morning, Bonnie Schneider.
BONNIE SCHNEIDER, METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Tony. It's going to be a beautiful day in Baltimore. Already shaping up to be a fine sunrise. Let's go ahead and take a live picture now of Baltimore, Maryland. What a beautiful sunrise there. So good morning, everyone. Get ready for a summer like day there with temperatures in the 80s. Perfect weather for October. A little warm, too.
Stay tuned. We're going to have the complete check of your forecast coming up next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: And here's a quick look at our top stories. Jakarta is on high alert this morning after Saturday's suicide bombings on Indonesia's resort island of Bali. Police are investigating the shopping and entertainment district, where the blasts killed 25, make that 26 people and wounded more than 100 others.
Authorities are investigating an explosion at the University of Oklahoma that killed one person. Authorities suspect it may have been suicide. The body was found near a packed Memorial Stadium where O.U. was playing Kansas State.
A new "Newsweek" poll shows an overwhelming 62 percent of Americans disapprove of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq. A third say they do approve.
And take a look at these pictures. The few, the lucky ones. The hard hit Lima Battalion is back from Iraq and getting ready for a high profile visit tomorrow in North Carolina. We'll bring you that story in about 20 minutes.
WHITFIELD: Well, Tony, key issues await the fall term of the U.S. Supreme Court, which begins tomorrow. Among them, abortion, assisted suicide, capital punishment, and who will replace Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.
Facing those issues is the new chief justice, John Roberts. Constitutional attorney David Oblon joins us live from Washington with his take on the new high court. Good to see you.
DAVID OBLON, CONSTITUTIONAL ATTORNEY: Good to see you, too, Fredericka.
WHITFIELD: All right, well, let's talk about the obligation that perhaps the president may have when thinking about a new nominee. Sandra Day O'Connor giving in her resignation. You have to wonder, this is the first time in 34 years that a president will have an opportunity to seek two Supreme Court justices in one term. You have to wonder if he is concerned about his legacy. And is he - does he have the allegiance to conservatism or is he trying to make a statement in trying to balance the court?
OBLON: You raised an interesting point by initially saying that he had an obligation. And that's kind of a charged word that seems to suggest that perhaps he's got an obligation to name a woman to replace a woman.
And there aren't, of course, in the Supreme Court, any reserve seats, any reserve seats for minorities, reserve seats for women. However, everyone was expecting the Roberts nomination to ultimately be a female. There certainly are not enough females and minorities on the court to have a balance that truly reflects America.
But ultimately, the president's obligation is to nominate the person who best supports his opinion as to who he wants the - the direction he wants the court to go.
Does he want the court to go more right ward? Or does he want the court to be in the middle of the road. And for that, I think he may decide that he wants to pick someone like Luddig, Michael Luddig, who's just a reliable conservative.
But as you correctly point out, there is a lot of temptation for a president to nominate a minority or a female.
WHITFIELD: Well, let's talk about some of those names that are on the short list. And we're going to break them down by race and gender, because the president has at least alluded to the fact that he is trying to be conscientious of diversity on the court.
And let's begin with some of the names on the list by way of Hispanics. Albert Gonzales, who's the attorney general, has always been on the list as a potential Supreme Court justice. He didn't make the cut for Chief Justice, but his name is still potentially on this list.
However, we're hearing from a number of conservatives in Congress who say they're not quite sure about him because they believe that he is a moderate. He is a, I guess, closet moderate. What's your view?
OBLON: Alberto Gonzales is very risky. Among conservatives, there's a joke going around. How do you say David Souter in Spanish? It's Albert Gonzales, because the fear is is that he will get - take the bench, take his lifetime appointment, and suddenly drift to the left.
You seem to have a problem of judges being nominated by Republicans who drift to the left. You don't seem to have the same kind of problem of Democrats nominating Supreme Court justices who drift to the right.
And so therefore, conservatives are very concerned that the person who is picked is someone who truly is going to be a conservative.
And Gonzales just doesn't have that very visible obvious background. And so as a result, Gonzales is going to be a very risky pick for the president because he not only has to convince the Democrats, who are going to oppose any Bush nominee, but he also has to convince the Republicans, the conservative Republicans, that Gonzales is the right choice.
And so, he could find himself making that nomination more difficult than most others.
WHITFIELD: And the potential of seating a third black man on the Supreme Court. Let's look at among the folks that are on the short list. Larry Thompson being a close friend of the president. He's one that the president has always spoken very highly of.
OBLON: Yes. Larry Thompson seems like he would be a very good pick. But you got to keep in mind that President Bush doesn't get real credit for nominating an African-American in the way that other people would - a Democrat would. When Clarence Thomas was nominated, he - it's still not considered to be an African-American, even though he is.
WHITFIELD: Well, Thorgood Marshall being the first one appointed as well.
OBLON: He's not a liberal. Yes, of course, but he was nominated as a liberal. Well, not as a liberal, but by a Democrat. And everybody knew that he was leaning to the left.
When Clarence Thomas was nominated, everyone knew he was going to the right, but Bush didn't get a lot of credit for opening up the court to African-Americans because a lot of African-Americans don't consider him to be representative of them.
WHITFIELD: All right. And now quickly, the women. We've heard President - we've heard First Lady Laura Bush mention three times publicly that she would like to see a woman replace Sandra Day O'Connor. And a name that we keep hearing, Judge Priscilla Owen, is also on the short list. What's the potential here?
OBLON: Unfortunately, I think Priscilla Owen has a zero chance of getting nominated. And the reason is is that she had such a tough time the last go around. And the Democrats have already told Bush that if you nominate one of the justices who we gave a tough time to the first time around, it's like putting a sharp stick in her eye.
And I don't think President Bush is going to want to put sharp sticks in anybody's eyes at this particular point.
So if he's going to nominate a woman, I think it's probably going to be Karen Williams from the Fourth Circuit.
Or he could do what Bush is akin to doing, which is picking people who are close to him that he trusts. And then he might pick one of his members from the White House counsel like Harriet Myers, for example.
WHITFIELD: And David, a quick hypothetical, since that seems to be something that people are willing to do these days is consider hypotheticals. If Sandra Day O'Connor perhaps doesn't like the person that the president picks, would she ever potentially rescind her resignation, to wait perhaps until the next administration?
OBLON: I doubt it. I don't think so. I think she's ready to retire. And it would truly shock me if she rescinded her retirement based on someone being picked that she didn't like. No, I don't think that's possible.
WHITFIELD: All right, David Oblon, thank you so much. Tony?
OBLON: You bet.
HARRIS: Well with gas and heating oil prices so high, why not let something free from the sun save you some cash? Details, later this hour. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
WHITFIELD: Well, coming up next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING, after losing 48 servicemen this summer in Iraq, the Lima Battalion is back on American soil. We'll take a look at their emotional return when we come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SUNDAY MORNING: Well, here's a question for you this morning. Is solar energy the right choice for your house? A few thousand dollars can save you a lifetime of energy bills. Welcome back, everyone. I'm Tony Harris.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SUNDAY MORNING: And I'm Fredricka Whitfield in for Betty Nguyen. That story in a few moments, but first a look at the morning news.
In Saturday's radio address, President Bush said defeating the terrorists in Iraq will require more time and more sacrifice, but a "Newsweek" poll shows 41 percent of Americans are fed up with how he's handling the war. A new CNN "USA Today" Gallup poll comes out at noon today. Small amounts of a bacteria that causes rabbit fever were found on Washington's national mall. The CDC says air monitors detected low levels of the bacteria during last weekend's war protest. Rabbit fever can cause flu-like symptoms, but health officials say there have been no reported cases linked to the bacteria.
And the winner is -- the New York Yankees. The Yanks wrapped up their eighth straight American league east title with an 8-4 win over Boston. The Red Sox are still alive to make the playoffs with one game to play today. Tony?
HARRIS: And time now to check out some of the other stories making news around the world.
WHITFIELD: Sorry about that. That's a trash can. Sorry about that!
HARRIS: Sorry about that. Things are a bit quieter in the Middle East this morning, but not up here on the set, that's for sure, with those details and a look at the other top world stories. Let's hand it over now to Anand Naidoo at the CNN international desk. Anand, good morning.
ANAND NAIDOO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Tony, thanks and good morning from me. There's been a slight easing of tensions in Gaza after the last week of fighting. You're quite right there. Israel says it will suspend its defensive into Gaza. That's after Palestinian militants stopped some of their rocket fire into Israel. There have been no missile attacks since Israel -- into Israel, rather, since Tuesday, but Israel has warned it will continue its offensive if the militant attacks resume. The recent violence came just weeks after Israel pulled out of Gaza after 38 years of occupation. The fighting erupted after an explosion at a Hamas rally killed 21 people a week ago. Hamas blamed Israel for the blast and then fired several dozen rockets into southern Israeli towns.
Now on to the still unresolved German election. Two weeks after the election showed no clear winner. The horse trading continues, but there could be movement today. A late election is being held in the city of Dresden and analysts say the outcome there may tip the balance one way or the other. Both (INAUDIBLE) Schroeder and his challenger (INAUDIBLE) wants a grand coalition involving both their coalitions, but they can't seem to agree on who will be chancellor.
In Afghanistan renewed clashes against - rather renewed clashes with militants near the Taliban stronghold of Kandahar has left one U.S. soldier and an Afghan national trooper dead. Another U.S. soldier and two Afghan service members were wounded. Officials say the militants attacked with small arms and rocket propelled grenades. The fighting has intensified before and after the September18th parliamentary and provincial elections. That's it for me. Fredricka, Tony?
WHITFIELD: All right, thanks so much Anand. Well, every week we bring you the more personal stories from the front lines. Lima company comes home from Iraq, down a few good men. The Ohio Marine reserve unit suffered heavy casualties in Iraq. Carol Lin has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A quiet homecoming for an Ohio unit that spent seven months in the thick of fighting in Iraq.
CPL. NATE ICKES, USMC: It's great. It's a great feeling to be back together, and just to be able to give her a kiss and a hug.
LIN: These are the men and women of a Marine reserve unit formerly known at luck Lima. They come back having sacrificed greatly, fortune not always on their side.
LANCE CPL. ERIC BILDSTEIN, USMC: It's good but it's kind of bitter sweet. We lost a few guys out there.
LIN: Lima company numbers 180 Marine, 16 lost their lives within a four-month span in Iraq.
CPL. DONALD BOSLEY, USMC: It's tough, but it's part of the job. And I think as Marines, we understand that and kind of expected it going into the whole thing.
LIN: Wesley Davids was killed May 11th, one day after his 20th birthday. His parents will never forget the moment they got the news.
MICHAEL DAVIDS, FATHER: I was making dinner.
JODY DAVIDS, MOTHER: One minute you have a normal life with dinner cooking and the next minute, everything changes.
M. DAVIDS: We regret to inform you --
LIN: And then there was August 3rd, a roadside bomb, the single most deadly attack against U.S. forces, 14 Marines killed, nine of them from Lima company. Back on U.S. soil, the members of lucky Lima are spending a few days in North Carolina before going home for a full reunion with their families.
SGT. TRAVIS BRILL, USMC: It's going to be a real transition, going from hunting down insurgents to going back to being a dad.
LIN: These men and women are reservists. They're going home to jobs at fire houses, stores and schools. But they go back changed by their experience, by the loss and by the knowledge that it could have been them, but wasn't. Carol Lin, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: And we bring you hero stories every week on CNN Sunday morning. Tony.
HARRIS: New Orleans police are investigating the looting of a generator from a New Orleans hospital, but wait until you find out who's on the list of suspects. That story from our investigative unit next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING. And later this hour, a perfect way to fight high heating bills this winter. Find out if it will work for you.
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HARRIS: In our CNN investigative unit spotlight this morning, the case of the missing generator. It was allegedly looted from one New Orleans hospital before it could be taken to help another medical facility evacuate. But it's not the who may have done it that's the real kicker. It's the reported reason why. CNN's Drew Griffin continues his probe of the New Orleans police department which is taking a hard look at a few of its own officers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For week the New Orleans police department called allegations of looting by its officers a misunderstanding. Now the new acting superintendent calls it an active investigation.
ACTING SUPT. WARREN RILEY, NEW ORLEANS POLICE: That I have ordered an immediate internal investigation by the department's public integrity bureau which will focus on at least 12 police officers who are being accused of misconduct.
GRIFFIN: Four officers have been suspended. One has been reassigned and interim Chief Warren Riley insisted all allegations will be thoroughly checked.
RILEY: I want to reaffirm our position that there is zero tolerance for misconduct or unprofessionalism by any member of this department.
GRIFFIN: Among the allegations under investigation, claims that eight officers holed up on the tenth floor of this Canal Street hotel were drinking and eating by day and looting by night. Police confirmed this is one of their officers caught on tape holding a gun as he appears to be blocking a photographer from entering the tenth floor through this door. This generator is one of the items at the hotel that witnesses say was stolen by police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they stole this from a hospital?
OSMAN KHAN, HOTEL MANAGER: They stole it from Tulane Hospital correct.
GRIFFIN: Hotel manager Osman Khan says the generator was stolen from Tulane Hospital and used by officers, he says, to keep beer cold. Tulane Hospital confirms the generator is owned by Tulane and during the hurricane's aftermath was being used to evacuate patients. Those evacuations were taking place on this parking deck. The generator was being used to light up the deck to keep the communications, the radios going so they could communicate with the helicopters. Tulane was finished with its evacuations but left the generator and all the communications and gas in place so that Charity Hospital could continue its evacuations. That is when the generator, now down there on the second floor of this hotel, was looted. GEORGE JAMISON, TULANE HOSPITAL: It was left on the parking deck specifically fueled up with fuel for Charity Hospital, because we thought they still had people and we thought that they were going to continue with an exercise to evacuate them.
GRIFFIN: Tulane's security officer George Jamison says he has no proof the taking of the generator cost any lives or even inconvenience. As for who took it and why - Jamison, would it surprise you to know it was taken by officers of the New Orleans police to cool their beer?
JAMISON: Well, since I'm not running for political office, I can say, no, it wouldn't surprise me.
GRIFFIN: In addition to the looting allegations, in the last few days police chief Eddie Compass suddenly resigned and another investigation was launched into why or if 249 police officers deserted their posts. The new chief said this when asked if his department is too dysfunctional or disorganized to keep the city safe.
RILEY: No. First of all, the department is not dysfunctional. The more than 2,000 men and women of this agency stand united in not letting a very small segment of members tarnish the great reputation this department.
GRIFFIN: The truth is, the New Orleans PD has a reputation, but not a good one. Two of its former officers are on death row. There have been multiple investigations of corruption. Atlanta Police Chief Richard Pennington tried to clean up the New Orleans police department when he was chief in this city from 1994 until 2002. Today he, too, says he's not surprised New Orleans police officers are under investigation.
CHIEF RICHARD PENNINGTON, ATLANTA POLICE: I, you know, was involved in arresting many officers in that department during my tenure and I know for a fact I probably did not get all the officers that were corrupt and so I wasn't surprised at all when I heard it.
GRIFFIN: Pennington says the question now, is the New Orleans police department capable of investigating itself while also trying to recover from the worst disaster in the city's history. The city's newest chief of police says, wait and see for yourself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: And we will have another investigative unit spotlight for you next Sunday morning.
WHITFIELD: A look at our top stories right now. Authorities believe suicide bombers were behind a string of explosions on Indonesia's resort island of Bali. The attacks happened yesterday in areas packed with tourists. At least 25 people were killed and more than 100 wounded.
A new "Newsweek" poll shows an overwhelming 62 percent of Americans disapprove of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq. One-third say they do approve.
The Army Corps of Engineers says New Orleans is about 95 percent dry. They hope to have all of the city's heavily flooded ninth ward pumped out by mid-week.
And don't forget, our e-mail question this morning -- should your tax dollars be spent on rebuilding the Gulf coast region? We're following the theme all day today on CNN. E-mail us at weekends@cnn.com. We'll read your responses, coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: With gas and home heating prices on the rise in the wake of hurricanes Katrina and Rita, many people are looking for energy alternatives. CNN's Alina Cho tells us about one New York man who's already ahead of the game.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINO CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every time Dan Sabia looks at the solar panels on his roof --
DAN SABIA, SOLAR POWER CONSUMER: I see dollar signs coming out of them.
CHO: He sees the money he's saving each month on electricity costs.
SABIA: We basically wipe out of our electric bill to a zero balance.
CHO: He used to pay $230 a month for his four bedroom house. Then Sabia learned about solar energy. He installed the panels three years ago, liked them so much, he also put them on his rental house next door.
SABIA: It's better than putting money in the stock market. It's guaranteed.
CHO: The panels are expensive and can cost up to $75,000 per house. Sabia, who was among the first on New York's Long Island to install them got a $60,000 rebate from the power company. The rebate is $40,000 now but there are also tax breaks. Sabia's out of pocket expense, about $7,000. He saves about $2,800 a year on his electric bills. So in three years, the panels have paid for themselves.
DR. RICHARD KESSEL, LONG ISLAND POWER AUTHORITY: That's good for the customer. But it's also good for society because it reduces our dependence on oil.
CHO: People who support solar power argue now in the time to convert. Just this week the Long Island Power Authority announced another rate hike and that means residents in this area will soon be paying on average, $28 more a month for electricity.
SABIA: I'm very happy every time they raise the rates. Because I'm the one going around telling people you have solar. It's an option; it's a solution.
CHO: Part of the reason why Sabia and others who use solar energy on Long Island are holding open houses this weekend inviting people in to tell them about the benefit. It's a strong draw for people like Dominick Ognibene. What piqued your interest?
DOMINICK OGNIBENE, INTERESTED IN SOLAR POWER: The high cost of the fuel and the electric and my last electric bill that I just received at $900 and some odd dollars.
CHO: Homeowner Mike Diehl says he saves about $250 a month.
MIKE DIEHL, SOLAR POWER CONSUMER: That's groceries. That's a small vacation. That's a nice hit.
CHO: Diehl calls it is a no-brainer. So does Sabia, who says solar power is no longer a luxury. In this environment, he says, it's a necessity. Alina Cho, CNN, New York. (END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Wow.
HARRIS: Right.
WHITFIELD: I am inspired. I think I want - I've always wanted to have solar energy but -- I would like to try it, but you know what -- I'm thinking -- I really don't know the first step about trying to do it. It seems like a lot of work but it seems like, according to his story, it's a great payoff.
HARRIS: We got to do something.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
HARRIS: Look at gas these prices, $57? Is that what I was complaining about yesterday morning?
WHITFIELD: You were.
HARRIS: $57 to fill the tank. I don't have one of these SUVs. I don't have one of these monster vehicles. $57 -- we better do something.
WHITFIELD: That's a lot.
HARRIS: And the natural gas prices going into the roof. OK, 97 cents. AAA says right here, 97 cents.
WHITFIELD: For regular.
HARRIS: Over the course of the last year.
WHITFIELD: Everyone can expect your energy bills to be much greater this winter, period.
HARRIS: And Bonnie Schneider, let's bring you in here, because we don't know quite yet --
WHITFIELD: Bonnie, I kind of have my back to you. Sorry.
BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: That's all right.
HARRIS: We don't know quite yet what the forecasts are saying about the winter and how cold it will actually be.
SCHNEIDER: Yeah and I can tell you it's already feeling cold in a lot of places. We've had the first frost of the season in a good portion...
WHITFIELD: (INAUDIBLE) high last year.
SCHNEIDER: Yes, because we had a (INAUDIBLE) So if it's anything like last time,
HARRIS: (INAUDIBLE)
SCHNEIDER: All right Well, we're going to have a full check of the forecast coming up, but it's a beautiful day in Baltimore. You won't need the heater going there. Temperatures will be in the 80s. This is a live picture of the sunrise in Baltimore, courtesy of our affiliate WBAL. Stay tuned. I'll have a full check of weather coming up next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Twenty tropical storms.
WHITFIELD: I know, 20, nice even number. Let's stop here. As you said yesterday but, I don't know.
SCHNEIDER: As of this morning, 20 is now Stan, transformation overnight. Yeah, Stan is the next tropical storm we're watching. Let's go ahead and show you what that looks like in our satellite perspective. Tropical storm Stan is about to slam into the Yucatan Peninsula. It's actually bringing about some heavy rain and some winds even at this early hour. But the good news is with a track beyond the landfall in Yucatan, it will come into the Gulf of Mexico. But the good news for the U.S. is that's going to stay well south of the border. We were concerned about Texas earlier on, but it looks like at this point, we're doing OK.
Another tropical system we're watching is hurricane Otis. Now this is out in the Pacific. Here's the Baja Peninsula. You can see the storm getting closer, coming onshore there. Our main corner with this for the U.S. is some rainfall. Some of this rainfall will be beneficial to the desert areas into southern Arizona up towards Colorado and Utah. But we're going to see possibly some flash flooding because rRemember the ground here is pretty dry. So any rain that comes in is likely to cool on the roads. So be careful there in Arizona, especially Monday to Tuesday. I would like to say that the rain will help southern California and the fire fighter efforts there, but I don't think so. It looks like that rain will be pretty concentrated to Arizona. Tropical depression 19 continues well, well out into the Atlantic and look at the track. We're seeing more of a shift away from the U.S. mainland, so this one is not posing a threat to us. As we look at high temperatures for today, you'll find most places enjoying some nice weather. Chicago, 82, 86 in St. Louis, 100 in Phoenix, 56 in San Francisco. And out on the east coast, also looking like another great day for Boston, New York and Washington, D.C. The weather really does look good.
Well, check out this tropical mass here. We have our typhoon Longwang. This one really pounded Taiwan last night and it's actually heading to its next stop, which is China, and when it came in, we had maximum winds at 125 miles per hour. That classified this typhoon as a category three when it made landfall. It did injure 35 people and senior Asia correspondent Mike Chinoy has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Longwang means dragon king. Typhoon Longwang behaved like a dragon, roaring across Taiwan, bringing torrential rains and gusts of nearly 200 kilometers, 125 miles an hour. Worst hit was the island's eastern coast. Roads flooded, the winds damaging buildings. Tens of thousands were left without electricity. Dozens of people were injured. The storm brought the entire island, population 23 million, to a virtual standstill. Most shops and businesses closed. Public transportation shut down. No trains, flights, both domestic and international, delayed or canceled.
For all the fury, though, overall damage appeared relatively modest. Partly, people were well-prepared. Typhoons are routine here and partly it's topography. Unlike the U.S. Gulf coast for instance, Taiwan is mostly mountains, peaks rising almost directly from the shore. There's little low-lying areas susceptible to the combination of storm surge and heavy rain that proved so devastating in hurricane Katrina. Taiwan has its own peculiarities. For one thing, the island hits in an earthquake zone.
(on-camera): And as Longwang was about to make landfall, the area near where the eye was to come ashore suffered a quake measuring 5.4 on the Richter scale. No serious injuries or damage reported, but residents faced an uncomfortable choice. Remain inside their shaking homes or escape outside into the driving wind and rain. Mike Chinoy, CNN, Taipei.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: All right. Now, speaking of the results of things like typhoons or even hurricanes, we've been asking all day about whether you believe your tax dollars should be used to help rebuild the Gulf coast region hit by both hurricanes Katrina and Rita.
HARRIS: Ah, the e-mail question of the morning. A lot of responses in so far Fred. Let's get to one from Rick from Arlington, Virginia, who saying the people of the United States are using their tax dollars to rebuild New York after 9/11, to rebuild Florida after the series of hurricanes and many other smaller disasters. The Gulf coast region is of vital importance to the economy of the United States. It is in our own interests - it goes on a bit here. It is in our own interests to rebuild this important area of our country. Thank you, Rick.
WHITFIELD: And in from Hugh Griffin in lower Alabama, he writes the outpouring of support for the victims of Katrina and Rita have been outstanding. Concerning New Orleans, we do need to rebuild the docks business and historical districts with Federal and other private and public funds for the national good and the other use should only be completed with private, local or state funds, not Federal, our funds.
From JG Duker, no location given. People who choose to live in places and ways predicted to be precarious are not owed salvation by others' prudence. Behave dangerously and expect to save yourself at society's mercy.
HARRIS: Wow, OK. Responses this hour. Here's the question once again if you want to weigh in. Should your tax dollars be used to help rebuild the Gulf coast region? Send those replies along at weekends@cnn.com and we'll get to more of them in the next hour of programming.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CO-HOST: Amateur video captures the detonation and carnage in a Bali cafe where at least 26 people died and 100 more were wounded in a string of coordinated bombings.
Indonesia's president said it was clearly an act of terrorism. The attacks precede the three-year anniversary of the October 12, 2002, terror bombing that killed 202 people.
Operation Iron Fist, the latest U.S. military initiative against Iraqi insurgents, focuses on another town in the Anbar province. Karabila is now in the crosshairs of a Marine-led strike force. Yesterday in the town of Sada, Operation Iron Fist killed eight Iraqi insurgents, three of those considered members of al Qaeda in Iraq.
A massive wildfire northwest of Los Angeles could be fully contained by Monday. The Chatsworth-Topanga Fire has already burned 24,000 across since it ignited on Wednesday. Right now, Los Angeles fire officials say the blaze is 40 percent contained. Another smaller fire near Burbank, burns as well. It is roughly 15 percent contained.
And the winner is the New York Yankees. The Yanks wrapped up their eighth straight American League east title with an 8-4 win over Boston. But the Red Sox are still alive to make the playoffs with one game to play today.
From the CNN Center, this is CNN SUNDAY MORNING. It is the month of October, the second day.
TONY HARRIS, CO-HOST: October the second? WHITFIELD: It's my husband's birthday today. Happy birthday. Ha-ha! Eight a.m. at the CNN headquarters in Atlanta, 7 a.m. along the Gulf Coast. Good morning, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, in for Betty Nguyen.
HARRIS: And I'm Tony Harris. Thank you for being with us this morning.
We are taking a special look at the challenges of rebuilding the devastated gulf region a month after Hurricane Katrina roared ashore. For the residents of the battered Gulf region, the past 35 days have been a never ending nightmare. Questions too hard to answer and decision too hard to make.
New Orleans, battered and flooded -- and flooded, is slowly moving toward its new normal. The city's devastated Ninth Ward neighborhood is nearly dry after Hurricane Rita reflooded the area last weekend. Thousands are still without power.
But many people have returned to the city to see what is left and try to determine where and how to rebuild. One encouraging sign for students in Jefferson and St. Tammany parishes, school starts again tomorrow for the first time since August.
In Mississippi, the cleanup continues, as the state ponders how to rebuild the lucrative casinos that dotted the coastline. Governor Haley Barbour supports a House measure to change the law prohibiting the casinos to be land-based. Before the storm, the Casinos were built on floating barges.
WHITFIELD: Back to New Orleans and historic Jackson Square. CNN's Chris Lawrence is there with another sign of things returning to some sense of normalcy.
Good morning to you, Chris.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Fredricka.
Yes, we're standing right outside St. Louis Cathedral, one of the oldest and most distinctive churches here in the city of New Orleans. And in just a couple hours people are going to be attending the first mass since Hurricane Katrina hit this city so hard.
And when we look at what's been going on throughout the city, there's been a lot of the start to rebuilding the physical infrastructure of the city, but when you look at New Orleans, I know it's got that reputation with Mardi Gras, as this raucous place, but New Orleans is actually a very religious place and more specifically a very Catholic place.
There are nearly half a million Catholics in the archdiocese of New Orleans. It stands out among a lot of other southern cities as a very Catholic city, and a lot of people here take that very, very seriously, into everything, even the emergence of Mardi Gras are really a celebrate before Ash Wednesday begins the season of Lent. And so when you talk about rebuilding the city, you've also got to talk about rebuilding the faith, and that's what we expect to see and maybe at least the first step taken today at about 10:30 local time here in New Orleans. Some people will actually be coming and having service for the first time.
It's not going to be exactly the same. I mean, there should be four masses here on a normal Sunday. You already see people lined up going in. So it's going to be a little different, but it will be interesting to see people get back to those things that they normally, in normal times, are so important to them, like going to mass on Sunday -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: All right. Chris Lawrence, it will be interesting to see who is in attendance. We'll talk more about that next hour. Thanks so much, Chris.
Well, did New Orleans and the city's sinful ways invite God's wrath in the form of Hurricane Katrina? We'll talk with one such minister who says yes. That's in our "Faces of Faith" segment, straight ahead in a few moments.
HARRIS: A month after Katrina FEMA is still scrambling to find homes for many evacuees. As expected, many Katrina victims have relocated to cities near New Orleans. One of those cities is Greensburg, Louisiana, located about 80 miles northwest of New Orleans. And as CNN Ted Rowlands reports, it is a town divided.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The sign says "Welcome to Greensburg" but some hurricane victims say they don't feel welcome at all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can understand, cause they're not used to this but we're not used to it either. So I don't want to be here, you know, just as much as they don't want us here.
ROWLANDS: Greensburg, Louisiana, is about 80 miles northwest of New Orleans, a small town divided over a possible FEMA plan to bring in trailers for hurricane victims. The city has supported victims since the storm, but the thought of bringing in trailers and possibly more people has divided the town.
At the Greensburg market, everyone we talked to knew about the debate, and had an opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think we have the facilities here for it. There's no more than what's here. It would be -- it would be hectic, no doubt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we need to do what we can to help the New Orleans people, I mean, because they can't help themselves right now.
ROWLANDS: With a population of less than 1,000, Greensburg is about 33 percent African-American, 66 percent white. Some people think this debate is about race.
PASTOR JAMES ODEN, NEW HOPE MINISTRY: It's now beginning to surface it's really coming out as a result of what has transpired here lately, which it shouldn't be. We are all tied together in one single thread of destiny, and we've got to learn how to come together and work together.
ROWLANDS: People we've talked to say they don't know of any specific incidents of hostility, but during a heated town meeting, some residents said they didn't want evacuees from New Orleans, because some might be rapists or murderers.
Brad Graves, who is the director of emergency preparedness, says he was surprised over some of the things he heard at the meeting. He thinks a rumor that FEMA wanted to bring in 25,000 hurricane victims whipped some people into a frenzy.
BRAD GRAVES, EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS OFFICE: It's a concern that this is going to cause racial diversity, but I don't think that's going to happen. I think once everybody gets the correct information, and understands what's going on, that everything's going to be OK.
ROWLANDS: Graves says the correct information is that FEMA hasn't decided anything, and Greensburg may not get any trailers at all.
Meanwhile, some evacuees like this woman, who even has a job in Greensburg, are worried they may never be accepted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's very frustrating, because not all of us are like that, you know, and we've been thrown out here, you know, and we feel like they don't want us here. So...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: CNN's Ted Rowlands reporting from Greensburg, Louisiana.
We want to know what you think about the challenges ahead for the Gulf Coast. Should your tax dollars be used to help rebuild it? E- mail us. Our address is Weekends@CNN.com, and we'll read your comments coming up a little later in the newscast.
WHITFIELD: And news across America now. New York police have charged a Queens man with killing his missing 26-year-old girlfriend. Thirty-two-year-old Caesar Ascarrunz faces life in prison for allegedly strangling the woman and then abandoning her 4-year-old daughter. The little girl was found on the city streets. She's reportedly in foster care and in good condition.
Authorities in Norman, Oklahoma, say an explosion heard near the Okalahoma University football stadium last night was most likely from a suicide. One person was found dead near the site of the blast. University officials say at no time was anyone inside the stadium in danger. The Sooners were playing Kansas State at the time.
If you're traveling to Baltimore in the near future, you won't be landing at Baltimore Washington International Airport any more. Instead you'll touch down at Baltimore Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport. The change went into effect yesterday. Thurgood Marshall, who is a Baltimore native, became the first black justice on the U.S. Supreme Court.
Mardi Gras, jazz fest, the French Quarter. Some say they're all about good times. Others argue it's a decadent society. So was the hurricane from Hurricane Katrina a message from God? We'll debate that issue in our "Faces of Faith."
HARRIS: And next hour some teachers displaced by the storm get ready to hit the books, barred from their old classrooms. "CNN Sunday morning" continues in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: The Bali bombings. We begin our top stories with new video from Indonesia, where suicide bombers hit three times in tourist resort areas yesterday. Twenty-six people were killed, more than 100 wounded. Even the capital city of Jakarta is on high alert today.
Typhoon slammed into Taiwan killing one person and leaving a half million homes without power. The storm weakened after hitting land. Now it is moving towards China's Fujian province.
And back in this country, Hurricane Otis has been downgraded to a tropical storm, but it's expected to bring heavy winds and rains to the Baja, California, Peninsula. Hundreds of residents have evacuated their homes.
WHITFIELD: Bonnie Schneider is in the weather center. And you know, I wonder, Bonnie, those rains in the Baja Peninsula, might they make their way north and perhaps the folks in L.A. county could benefit from that with their fires?
(WEATHER REPORT)
WHITFIELD: Thanks so much, Bonnie.
New Orleans is a city known for its celebration of decadence: its Mardi Gras parades, gambling casinos, you name it. Well, did God use Hurricane Katrina to punish the city for its sinful ways? At least one pastor seems to think so, and we have him live next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Ninety-thousand9 square miles of land have been affected by Hurricane Katrina; more than 1,100 people dead, 900 of those in Louisiana. Some are saying it's God's way of punishing the city of New Orleans for its sinful ways. That's the topic this morning in "Faces of Faith."
Joining us now from New Orleans is one pastor suggesting such. The Reverend Jay Nelson Brown joins us live from his church, Greater St. Mary Baptism Algiers, and the Reverend Tony Campolo ministers a Philadelphia congregation, but he joins us from Seattle, Washington, this morning for another perspective.
And gentlemen, good morning to you.
REV. JAY NELSON BROWN, GREATER ST. MARY BAPTISM ALGIERS: Good morning.
REV. TONY CAMPOLO, PHILADELPHIA PASTOR: Good morning.
HARRIS: Pastor Brown, let me begin with you. You do not really believe, do you, that God is punishing New Orleans for its sinful ways?
BROWN: Well, that's a strong word, "punishment," but I believe he's judging and chastising us.
HARRIS: You do? Why? Tell us why.
BROWN: Well, because New Orleans' practices have been continuing for years, and I believe all of the hurricanes that threaten to come this way that God gave us an opportunity to clean up some things, and we refused. So I believe this is just a chastisement to let us know that he is serious about cleaning up our act.
HARRIS: Pastor Campolo, God's payback?
CAMPOLO: Well, the problem with that argument is a simple one, that most of the people that were affected by this hurricane were poor and oppressed African-American brothers and sisters.
The part of the city that was least affected was the French Quarter. Bourbon Street is back in operation. The strip joints are going again. If God is punishing New Orleans, he has lousy aim, because he hit the wrong people and the wrong part of town.
HARRIS: And Pastor Brown, what do you think of that? You don't punish a city. You punish people.
BROWN: No, not at all. Not at all. I think that God spared the French Quarter because he has a greater judgment down the road for the French Quarter. It's these of us that are poor that should be witnessing and not participating with the French Quarter.
So I don't think that God spared the French Quarter. I believe what he done for Nineveh through Jonah he has done over to the French Quarter.
CAMPOLO: I would only say in response to that, that when I go to the scriptures and I read about Jesus in the 14th chapter of John, it says, he came into the world not to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved.
I think that I have a different view of God. He sees God as this wrathful deity. I see God as he's described in the scripture, in John 1:4 as a God of love, a God who comes to redeem, a God who comes to save. There is going to be a judgment, but it's at the end of history. HARRIS: Right.
CAMPOLO: It is not now; it is not upon New Orleans.
HARRIS: Pastor Brown, you want to respond? And what does the Bible tell us about God's wrath?
BROWN: I believe that, what he said, but go back to Genesis, chapter 2, chapter 3, look at the wickedness God gave law, and look at what happened with Adam. Do he think that God really judged Adam? Adam was in a perfect world and ever since Adam, man has been getting worse. Look at the flood with Noah. Do I kind of disagree with that, that God is not judging now.
CAMPOLO: I can go to the scriptures to the 25th chapter of Matthew. It says that nations will be judged, but they will be judged at the end of time, if you read the chapter, 25th chapter.
And they will be judged not in terms of whether they have a Mardi Gras, not in terms of whether or not there are gays, not in terms of whether or not there are sexual improprieties. They shall be judged on that day in terms of how they treated the poor.
Jesus says, "On the day when I judge the nations I will ask these questions. 'I was hungry. Did you feed me? Naked, did you clothe me? Sick did you care for me?'"
If there's any judgment it should be on America that, to a large degree, has allowed the poverty that we saw in New Orleans emerge, not only in New Orleans, but in every single city in America.
God's greatest concern is the poor. There are 2,000 versus of scripture that call upon to us respond to the needs of the poor. If there's any lesson to be learned from New Orleans, it's that lesson.
HARRIS: And Pastor Brown, in part, in your argument, you seem to be suggesting that, you know, the poorest amongst us are being asked to suffer all over again, in trying to put their lives back together again, trying to endure and come out of this storm and pick up the pieces of their lives, so not only is the city being punished, but the people who are the least among the residents of that city are being punished all over again.
BROWN: Well, I don't think being punished, that's a strong word. I don't think that's the right word, "punished."
HARRIS: What's the word? What's the word?
BROWN: Chastisement, judgment. I think that, when you look at those two words...
HARRIS: But people died, Pastor. Pardon me for interrupting but people died, 1,100 people.
BROWN: They did, and I can show you throughout the word of God where whole cities where babies died because of the wrath of God. Israel refused to do what God said. I believe Israel at that time was God's chosen people for that period. And I believe the church is God's chosen people for now, and somehow the church has gone into complacency.
And when you talk about America, I don't think anyone with their right mind cannot see judgment, not only on New Orleans, Philadelphia, California, Colorado, every state in the union, and I believe every nation in the world has seen the hand of God.
HARRIS: Pastor Campolo, let me ask you this question. Actually it's an e-mail. Let me have you respond to it. Because I got to tell you something, there are a lot of people who feel that this storm is about payback. This is from Sandy from North Carolina, who writes -- the question is whether or not we should rebuild the gulf region.
And Sandy says, "No! Why should I pay for a city to be rebuilt only to have the city crucify Jesus again and again? God sent a wake up call and a warning! New Orleans needs to repent and stop tolerance to sinful behaviors if it hopes to be a city again."
Pastor Campolo?
CAMPOLO: Sister Sandy, you need to repent, because Jesus says, "Judge not that you be not judged."
The reality is that there is an implication: "I'm righteous." That's what she's saying. "And these people are evil, and I'm not going to spend my money to help these evil people." They're not evil people.
Let me tell you what it says in 2nd kings, the 19th chapter. "You look for God in the earthquake, God is not there. Look for God in the mighty wind, God is not there. Look for God in the mighty fire, it is not there. God is in the soft, still voice, prompting us from within to love, to reach out to those who are in need, and that, in fact, the ultimate sin is to live a life of luxury while, in fact, you neglect the poor."
I've got to say this, that the arguments that I'm hearing here...
HARRIS: Yes.
CAMPOLO: ... do more to drive people from God than all the arguments of the atheists put together.
HARRIS: OK, and Pastor Brown, one last quick word, as quickly as you can.
OK, thank you, Pastor Brown.
BROWN: I think...
HARRIS: Yes, go ahead.
BROWN: I think there's some truth with what Tony just said, but again, when you talk about the poor, Jesus said the poor shall always be with you, so I know the poor is going to be here, but again, when you talk about righteousness, it's something else.
HARRIS: All right, Pastor Brown, Pastor Campolo, we appreciate your time this morning. A quick break. We'll come back with more of CNN SUNDAY MORNING right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All morning we've been asking you this e-mail question: should your tax dollars be used to help rebuild the Gulf Coast region?
And Jean of Mississippi writes, "Certainly America needs to rebuild the Gulf Coast and New Orleans. We are all in the U.S. of A. If we can sacrifice lives and rebuild the country of Iraq, I cannot imagine that we would not want to take care of our own." That's from Jeanne in Mississippi.
HARRIS: And from Connie, "New Orleans should be bulldozed and rebuilt above sea level. No, I do not want my tax money used to rebuild the city all of the citizens and officials knew was going to be destroyed someday. Well, someday has arrived."
Thank you, Connie, from Columbus. More e-mails next hour.
Up next "HOUSE CALL." Two hurricanes, two very different stories. Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes a closer look at the lessons hospitals learned from Katrina that -- protecting them during Rita.
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