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CNN Sunday Morning

Iraq's Former Prime Minister Survives Assassination Attempt; Saddam Hussein Trial to Resume; Katrina Evacuees Express Discontent with Mayor

Aired December 04, 2005 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CO-HOST: Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco back in the spotlight. Newly released documents from her office give the nation of the behind the scenes chaos as the drama of Hurricane Katrina unfolded. E-mails and memos indicate uncertainty about whether to air drop food and water to storm victims, concerns about what Blanco should wear and indecisions about accepting international help.
Lot of talk about this today. And of course, we'll be learning more about those e-mails and memos.

We do want to welcome you on this Sunday morning here from the CNN Center in Atlanta, the fourth day of December. Good morning, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen.

TONY HARRIS, CO-HOST: And good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris. That story in just a moment.

NGUYEN: First, though, we want to get some breaking news out of Baghdad this morning. The man President Bush chose to lead Iraq following invasion escaped an attack during a campaign stop this morning.

CNN's Nic Robertson was traveling with former prime minister, Ayad Allawi, when it happened, and he joins us by phone.

Nic, you were there. What happened?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Mr. Ayad -- Mr. Ayad Allawi, his fellow politicians who were there with him, claim it was an assassination attempt.

He went into a shrine to meet with religious leaders in one of Iraq's most holy and religious cities. While he was inside the shrine praying, a group of people gathered, chanting, chanting slogans against him, and then chased him from the shrine, throwing shoes at him, which is a very derogatory thing to do in the Middle East.

And as he was rushed away by -- forced away from the shrine by the crowd, gunfire erupted. His own security people fired shots in the air. Some of the people traveling with Mr. Allawi, part of his campaign team, say that shots were fired in their direction.

It took several minutes for Mr. Allawi's security team to get him out of the area and somewhere safe. And as he was driving back to a safe location, Apache helicopter gun ships came in and gave his large convoy a secure escort. But according to his political team who were with him in that shrine, this was an assassination attempt, they say.

NGUYEN: All right, so to be very clear, according to the political team, it appears that this was an assassination attempt. Exactly what kind of area is this? Give us some perspective on who is in that area and who may have sparked this.

ROBERTSON: This is a very religious area. Indeed, there are religious shrines and there are religious leaders who are the custodians of the shrine.

What his political team and an independent witness, who was inside the shrine at the time, told me, they believe that this was the work, the orchestrated work of one of the -- one of the religious Shia militia groups here in Iraq. Specifically, they said the Mehdi militia, the militia belonging to Muqtada al-Sadr, a firebrand young Shia religious cleric.

So definitely, the -- Mr. Allawi's group believe it is one of these militias, and people present in the shrine at the time believe it may indeed have been the Mehdi militia belonging to firebrand cleric Muqtada al-Sadr -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Nic, what happens next? Does this change Allawi's campaign stops as we lead up to this or as we watch the December 15 elections take place?

ROBERTSON: Well, already there is incredible security around Mr. Allawi's campaign trail, just to get him down to Najaf, which should be from Baghdad 1 1/2 to two hours drive. Instead of doing that, he flew by helicopter with gunship escorts. He went in an armored convoy with a lot of security. So it is clear that it is very difficult for Mr. Allawi to campaign.

One of his campaign associates, political associates, was assassinated three or four days ago. He has had several other attempts on his life over the past couple of years, particularly when he was prime minister.

This is probably unlikely to stop his campaign -- campaigning, but it is definitely going to make it much more difficult for him to reach out into these areas. They are critical for support for him.

He reaches across the community. He is a secular leader. He reaches -- he is a Shia and he reaches out to both Shia and Sunni and is regarded as many as a good political hope for the future of the country, because they believe he can bring an end to the sectarian violence that is really growing.

For that reason, when he goes to the south now, he will have -- he will face very stiff challenges on the security front, Betty.

NGUYEN: And we'll be watching. Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson in Baghdad. Nic, we thank you. HARRIS: And Betty, even more breaking news out of Iraq this morning, including news of the deaths of two more U.S. soldiers. CNN's Aneesh Raman is following all the developments from Baghdad for us this morning.

Aneesh, good morning to you.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tony, good morning.

Two U.S. soldiers, the U.S. military announcing just hours ago, killed around 2 p.m. local time in southeastern Baghdad. It happened after a roadside bomb detonated.

Also today in Iraq, a Shia politician gunned down just days after a Sunni politician, all of this ahead, of course, of those critical December 15 elections Nic was just speaking of.

Now tomorrow, of course, the world waiting to see the third session of the Iraqi high tribunal in this first case against Saddam Hussein. For the third time, the defense could push for another delay.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAMAN (voice-over): The case against Saddam Hussein. Many here see it as open and shut.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Iraqi people wish to see a short tribunal to a big turnaround, shorter turnaround for Saddam Hussein to be executed sooner than later.

RAMAN: But for the court trying Hussein, the legal process is getting more complicated by the day. And as they reconvene, there is little doubt another showdown will ensue between the Iraqi high tribunal and Hussein's defense team.

At the first session on October 19, defense lawyers asked for a three-month delay, citing insufficient access to evidence and a lack of training. They were granted 41 days, and Hussein got a chance to question the legitimacy of the court.

SADDAM HUSSEIN, FORMER IRAQI PRESIDENT (through translator): I don't acknowledge neither the entity that authorized you, nor the aggression, because everything that's based on falsehood is falsehood.

RAMAN: At the second session last week, the defense asked again for a delay, citing the assassinations of two defense lawyers. They were granted one week, but the issue is far from resolved, likely to work its way back to court on Monday, with former U.S. attorney general, Ramsey Clark, officially part of the defense team, planning to make a statement centered on security.

RAMSEY CLARK, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Dangerous for them every day. It's more dangerous every day that they appear in court. So we want that protection in place. RAMAN: The government says it's offered the defense lawyers special security, but the lawyers have concerns, saying it's insufficient, creating an impasse and testing the patience of the Iraqi people.

"I do not think that Saddam Hussein will be executed, and also he will not be tried. This is just a show in front of the Iraqi people," says this man.

This trial will be adjourned for many times," says this policeman. "There will be at least four or five trials and then he will be punished."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAMAN: So Tony, security will be a key concern tomorrow, not just inside the trial but outside as well. Just in the past hour, Iraq's national security adviser, Dr. Mowaffaq al-Rubaie, confirming to us a plot was uncovered by insurgents to attack the courtroom tomorrow with mortars and delay these proceedings indefinitely -- Tony.

HARRIS: Wow! Just a busy, busy day in Iraq this morning. Aneesh, thank you.

NGUYEN: Back here in the U.S., some nasty signs of winter already. Snow falling today in the northeast is making for a tough day on the roads. Look at this. And today's storm is just a warm-up. Yes, more to come tomorrow.

Police lights may be flashing across much of the U.S., where icy conditions could turn a quick shopping trip into a long wait in traffic.

This accident in Idaho, where the roads look more like a skating rink, unfortunately.

HARRIS: Wow.

NGUYEN: And a deep freeze is settling in over the northern Rockies. Today's low temperature in all of the lowest 48 states is in Montana. Yes, you win today. At West Yellowstone, just 17 degrees. Not just degrees, but degrees below zero, 17 below zero.

HARRIS: You know it's going to get a little worse.

NGUYEN: Oh, yes. This is the beginning, right?

HARRIS: Well, there's another storm. I mean, another, bigger storm...

NGUYEN: Double whammy.

HARRIS: ... is coming (ph). All right. Bonnie Schneider is standing by right downstairs with an update for us.

Good morning, Bonnie.

(WEATHER REPORT)

NGUYEN: You know, I'll take the 66. I don't know about the 46. Just depends -- Texas is a big state, though. Thanks, Bonnie.

HARRIS: As you're fond of reminding us. Thank you, Betty.

NGUYEN: You'll get used to it, Tony.

All right. We're going to be talking about a lot of things today, including e-mails coming out of the Louisiana governor's office.

HARRIS: What a story, yes.

NGUYEN: They talk about exactly how this administration dealt with Katrina before and after the storm hit. Very interesting, raising eyebrows. We'll share them with you.

Also, we brought it to you yesterday as breaking news. The death of a top al Qaeda leader in Pakistan. But was it a missile or an accident? We are going to go to the White House for today's developments on this story, next.

HARRIS: And the war on terror remains at the top of the president's agenda, but is his push to victory pushing up his approval ratings?

Keep it here. CNN SUNDAY MORNING returns right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Well, we need to deal with this. Thousands of e-mails are telling the story of political stress and confusion in the Louisiana governor's office during and after Hurricane Katrina. They're coming to light after Congress requested documents in their investigation into the government's response.

Two days after the hurricane hit, Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco suggested dropping a prepared statement to New Orleans residents by air, and e-mail from her press secretary reads, quote, "I don't believe it's appropriate given the urgent nature and need to drop water and food."

Now a week after the hurricane, things reached a boiling point between Louisiana and the White House when President Bush made plans to visit Louisiana without telling Blanco. Blanco's aides questioned why the president would make a visit while she was out of the state visiting evacuees in Houston.

In an e-mail one of Blanco's aides said, quote, "The White House will be thrilled that she left the state. They will eat us for lunch. She cannot snub POTUS." POTUS, of course, is an abbreviation for the president of the United States. When Blanco got word that Puerto Rico wanted to send more than 1,000 National Guard members trained in hurricane relief, her Capitol Hill lobbyists e-mailed the governor's aide saying, "I don't know what to do, and they keep calling me as troops are literally on standby to be deployed."

New Orleans mayor, Ray Nagin, is feeling more heat from displaced residents, this time in Atlanta. It happened yesterday. As CNN's Renay San Miguel reports, frustrations were vented over the pace of rebuilding and the speed of aide getting to evacuees.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not getting nothing in New Orleans!

RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): They've been citizens without a city for three months now, 42,000 New Orleans Katrina evacuees still living in the Atlanta area. So you can understand if some of the 2,200 evacuees who attended this town hall meeting with New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin had trouble holding back their disbelief and frustration. He wants them to return, now.

RAY NAGIN, MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS: New Orleans will come back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to come home. Don't we? We want to come home. But we can't come home. There is nowhere to live. There is nowhere to stay. There's no water. Not in my residence. There's no electric. So tell me, how can I come home?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like to know about the citizens who have jobs there and their jobs are pressuring them to come back, but there is no place to stay, and they're offering trailers. But if you're not a homeowner, you don't have the property to put it on.

So you know, it's like you can't go back to your job, because you don't have a place to stay. And the living conditions are just horrible.

SAN MIGUEL: But Nagin says all essential services should be restored to all neighborhoods by January. And he's asking the government to rebuild the levees to be able to withstand a Category 3 hurricane by next June. Withstanding a Category 5 storm will come later.

PAUL FAY, FEMA: What I'd like to do is we'll take your name and number. And the thing about it -- let me have your attention, please.

SAN MIGUEL: And while evacuees got to vent at Nagin and FEMA representatives, Nagin himself unloaded on a federal government he says is slow doling out recovery dollars. If Washington doesn't deliver he's threatening political protest.

NAGIN: We're going to pick a date. We're going to pick a date. We're going to pick a date, and we're going to hire buses. And we're going to come pick folks up. And we're going to go build a levee system, you know, councilman Oliver Thomas said this on television. We're going to build a levee around the White House.

SAN MIGUEL (voice-over): Morehouse College put these poinsettias out here to remind everyone of the season, but it may just reminded the residents that they were chased out of their homes by Katrina before Labor Day. And now Christmas is approaching and they're still not back in their homes.

Renay San Miguel, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: Right now we want to get to some new video. Let's rerack this and start it from the top if we can now. This is new video in from Najaf. And you're going to see now.

This is the episode we've been telling you about for the last hour or so of a huge crowd, an angry crowd, surrounding former prime minister, Iraqi prime minister, Ayad Allawi, as he was visiting a mosque in Najaf.

And you're going to see a CNN senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, with Ayad Allawi here in just a moment. And here are those moments that Nic was describing for us when the former prime minister is literally running out of the mosque, along with his security detail and all of his other handlers.

This is a campaign stop as the prime minister is, you know, seeking office in the December 15 elections in just a few days now, and let's see if this video clears up. Is that the best we have or can we rerack that and show that once again?

OK. I believe we actually have more video. So let's just sort of stay with this. And we'll try to narrate this as best we can.

Apparently, what happened on the ground here is that Ayad Allawi was visiting a mosque, praying at the mosque. An angry crowd, we understand, of Shiites -- this is a heavily Shia-dominated area in Najaf -- began to gather. The crowd became more vocal, began to throw sandals, we understand.

And while we can, let's listen to some of the sound on this tape.

Can we hear it? OK. And clearly, what you hear there is all of the confusion as everyone is making their way out of the mosque and trying to get Ayad Allawi and the others who were part of his party to safety as quickly as possible. He is fine.

Gunshots were heard. Security forces for Ayad Allawi, his security detail, fired shots into the air, we understand. No reports of any injuries connected to this whole episode. And you can see -- you can see Iraqi security forces on the ground now, standing by near that mosque, we presume.

New video into CNN. We're going to take a break. We'll continue to follow this story. We'll try to get Nic back on the phone for an update on this. And when we come back, we will talk to a council woman from New Orleans who will give us her perspective on the recovery efforts in New Orleans, post-Katrina. But first, a break.

All right.

OK. And for those of you at home, and -- we're actually staying with this video. We are actually getting in new video, even right now, even as we describe this. Clearly, this is the scene as the former prime minister is being rushed from the area. Let's listen in a little more.

And as you watch this, let us explain that you're watching video on the ground, a CNN camera, right on the scene there, the camera crew that was traveling with Nic Robertson as they were on the campaign trail with the former prime minister, Ayad Allawi, making great haste to get out of the location. You can see this. Let's listen in a little more.

And once again, just to reset the scene for you, this was a campaign stop, a campaign stop in Najaf. As we take this to the top now to show you this whole progression once again. This was a campaign stop for the former Iraqi prime minister.

He was in this mosque, in Najaf, praying, meeting with an imam there. A huge crowd, we understand, started to gather of Shiites, very unhappy with Allawi's presence there in the mosque. They began to get very vocal. They began to throw sandals, initially, is what we're understanding. The security detail, as you can see here, post haste getting the former Iraqi prime minister away from the scene.

A CNN camera, Nic Robertson, traveling with the former prime minister on this campaign swing. And in a moment, you will see some of the moments when the camera crew was actually in one of the trucks getting out of the scene as quickly as possible. Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Like this.

ROBERTSON: OK. OK.

HARRIS: Now clearly, as you look at this, and we've been listening to the reporting that's been coming in from Nic Robertson on this, the folks who are a part of Ayad Allawi's team believe this to have been an assassination attempt. And you can understand, as you see the efforts, the frantic efforts, to leave the scene, why they feel the way they feel.

And Betty, this has to be considered sort of an outrageous attempt -- and we'll talk to Nic about this -- on Ayad Allawi in the Imam Ali mosque.

NGUYEN: Which is one of the holiest in Iraq.

HARRIS: Exactly.

NGUYEN: He was there on a campaign stop. And you're watching right now as they were making their getaway. And we're going to show you -- we're going to rerack it so we can show you again how Ayad Allawi was being chased out of the mosque there. People, as you will see right now -- see the crowd running in the background there?

HARRIS: Sure.

NGUYEN: Then you're going to see shoes flying in the air. That is particularly derogatory in the Arab culture.

And then we heard later that shots were being fired. Now we don't hear it right now. You just see them running and the chaos and the chanting, angry groups chanting at Ayad Allawi and his men there as they're trying to run out of harm's way.

But there was later word from Nic Robertson, as well, that there has been shots fired.

HARRIS: That's right.

NGUYEN: And we don't know, though, if those were directly at Ayad Allawi or if that was just crowd control.

HARRIS: His security forces believe yes is the answer to that.

NGUYEN: Yes. They're saying it was an assassination attempt.

HARRIS: And they -- they fired a response.

NGUYEN: Exactly. So we're trying to get a handle on how all of this really played out. And Nic Robertson is going to be on the phone with us momentarily.

Do we have him yet?

OK. We are going to take you back to that video of the mosque and the chanting and rioting and the throwing of the shoes.

HARRIS: Have you listen to it.

NGUYEN: Yes. Just take a listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (speaking foreign language) Let's go!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: And you heard just there moments ago the shots that were fired. At least that's what it sounded like from here.

And you're watching now a CNN cameraman as he captures all of this out of the back of a vehicle. As Allawi's team heads out of the area, out of what they feel is in harm's way and what they're saying was an assassination attempt on the former prime minister of Iraq, Ayad Allawi.

Nic Robertson was traveling with him, obviously, as you see at the time, with his camera crew. And that's how we were able to grab this.

Again, this was a campaign stop in Najaf at Shia Islam's holiest spot there. He was praying, Ayad Allawi, when this all broke out, an angry group started chanting and hurling shoes. And then later you heard shots being fired.

Of course, this is obviously something of grave concern to Allawi and his camp as the December 15 elections come, you know, within just a matter of days.

HARRIS: OK, and Betty, look, let's sort of set the scene and the back story on this as best we can.

Now, we know that it was about a week ago, because the statements started coming over on our air at about this time, about a week ago, we recalled that Ayad Allawi made statements to the London paper, "The Observer," suggesting in very strong language that abuses were going on right now by the interim Iraqi government right now that were similar in nature to the abuses that were going on during the time of Saddam Hussein's reign. And at the time those were very, very controversial comments.

And essentially, what Allawi was saying is that those abuses were going on, and they were sanctioned by this government, all kinds of abuses. I'm actually going to try to pull up some of those bites -- here's one right here: "People are doing the same kinds of things as in Saddam Hussein's time, and worse." This is a quote from Ayad Allawi, in an interview with "The Observer."

"It is an appropriate comparison. People are remembering the days of Saddam. These were the precise reasons that we fought Saddam, and now we are seeing the same kinds of things."

All right? So that -- those were the statements. And there were more that were made by Allawi last week. And here we are a week later, and here we are a week later and this is the scene that we have. This man at least being targeted by outraged protesters.

So we're going to take a break and we'll get a complete reset on this story. And we'll bring in CNN's senior international correspondent, who was traveling with Ayad Allawi, with a photographer, who is providing us with these exclusive pictures, only to CNN.

A quick break and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: All right. Here's again that video that we've been bringing to you, exclusive CNN video, of an angry mob throwing shoes and chanting at former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. We have CNN's Nic Robertson with us. He was there at the time and helped capture this information.

Nic, set the scene and take us back to exactly what was happening before this started and then how this erupted. ROBERTSON: Well, Mr. Allawi had gone to visit the shrine to try and build support. It is a very religious city and their support in this town is critical to him if he's going to do well in these elections. He went into the mosque; the cameras weren't allowed to follow him. We were waiting for him to come out to talk to him, ask him questions. I could begin to hear chanting going on. And as I looked down the hallway into the mosque, there was somebody was carrying a coffin out of the mosque, a traditional thing to do in this particular shrine, this mosque. And you could see shoes flying.

And then you see Mr. Allawi and his political team coming out from the shrine, running, beginning to be pushed -- I don't know if you can see in the video, Mr. Allawi is in the front, he's got a gray suit on, a white shirt, the suit's open, and his security is sort of pushing him before our camera is really rushed away. And we, with Mr. Allawi's security team, when the gunshots start erupting, we had to jump in the vehicles with everyone else and then start driving out of town with the gunfire still going on.

NGUYEN: Now about these gunshots, because we see in another piece of video that was sent in, it almost seems like two separate pieces. How soon do they come after Mr. Allawi rushed out of the mosque and where were they coming from? Were they being directed at him or were they as part of crowd control?

ROBERTSON: As Mr. Allawi came out of the mosque and he was beginning to get towards his security vehicles, and I was standing just a few feet from him, he had a lot of security, his own private security, the Iraqi army and the Iraqi police. And as the crowd was surging out of the mosque toward Mr. Allawi, that's when the gunshots began to be fired. Now what you don't see, is you missed probably two minutes in time between those two videotapes when pandemonium is going on. Mr. Allawi and his politicians are being bundled into their vehicles. We're racing down the street because we arrived with Mr. Allawi and his vehicles are about to leave, so we need to leave with him to try and find a place in and -- in his vehicle, and as we leave, that when that's when I was able to get the other camera rolling. And the dust is flying up in the street, the police vehicles are behind us and those shots are being fired out from our vehicles. The shell casings are landing in front of me.

Now from what I could see, these appeared to be warning shots to anyone behind not to come close. One of Mr. Allawi's team later told me that he heard seven shots being fired at them. I didn't hear any shots coming by or whizzing close to me, but there were other people there and I can't speak for them. Certainly when Mr. Allawi came out of the mosque there were a lot of gunshots fired as he was getting into the vehicle, just sort of after of the first clip of video, if you will, just after that first clip stops that's when the gunfire starts erupting -- Betty.

HARRIS: Wow. Nic, a quick question about the backdrop for all of this. Allawi accused fellow Shias in an interview with the "Observer" about a week or so ago, Shias in this government right now of being responsible for death squads and secret torture centers. Don't we have to view this as a response to some of these comments? ROBERTSON: Tony, the political situation here is such that obviously everyone is trying to score political points at the moment and Ayad Allawi, the same, along with this one else. He also said in that same article that the security situation was worse than when Saddam Hussein was in power. Mr. Allawi is trying to come to power by having a secular appeal to Shia and Sunnis, but also a sort of strong man, bigger if you like, who can deal with the violence, who can put pace to a lot of unrest and insurgency in the country. So, that's how he's trying to get to power, so by highlighting he is saying it's an issue and this is an issue I can deal with.

But if one remembers, there was a time just about a year or so ago, a little over a year, where Mr. Allawi was the prime minister and he had to deal with some of these very same militias he is talking about. He had to deal with them in this town of Najaf. They'd taken over the shrine; Mr. Allawi had to figure out how to deal with them. And he was very robust. It could be pay-back, if you will, for that. But this is an intense political time. The stakes are high. Everybody knows that the government as formed now will last four years and they have to win and some sides are very desperate and fear -- they think they should win and are willing to play all the cards to make sure it happens.

HARRIS: So Nic, is -- so, Allawi is positioning himself as a man who can bring all sides, all factions in Iraq together? We're talking about the Sunnis, the Shia, the Kurds -- is that how he is positioning himself? And if that's the case, if he is willing to be seen as taking on the Shia, does that bolster him with respect to how he is perceived by the other two factions, the Sunnis and the Kurds?

ROBERTSON: It's quite likely to. The -- his appeal is perhaps more to the intellectual base in the community, to the Sunnis, to the Shias, the middle ground. He believes that if he wins with that community, Sunni and Shia intellectuals, middle ground and some sort of side of that, he can bring the Kurds into a coalition. How he plays today, how he plays the events of today, and how they are played in the Iraqi media will either set him up as somebody who is tough, or perhaps somebody who ran away, who really can't deal with the violence. But all sides are trying to undermine each other here -- Tony.

HARRIS: Wow, OK. Nic, thank you. Man, what a day.

NGUYEN: Yeah, definitely. And we're going to talk a little bit more about this in our "Soldier Story" segment. We have a gentleman who is going to be joining us, he also wrote "Thieves of Baghdad" the investigation, finding those stolen artifacts from the Iraqi national museum. But he spent a lot of time Iraq, served several tours and he can talk to us about the culture -- the political culture and what's going on over there. And so we'll be discussing several things with him. That's coming up, you'll want to stay tuned for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Gold jewels, copper statues, and priceless pieces of art stolen under cover of war. A U.S. Marine leads his group on the treasure hunt to find, recover, and display these historical artifacts. That hunt began shortly after the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Now two years later thousands of artifacts are still missing from the Iraqi museums, and it's feared those pieces are being sold on the underground market and are already right here in the U.S. "Thieves of Baghdad" is a new book detailing the treasure hunt. Author and U.S. Marine Colonel Matthew Bogdanos joins us now for New York this morning to talk about this "Soldier Story."

We're going to get to your book in just a moment, but you've been listening to the breaking news out of Iraq dealing with Ayad Allawi and what happened at the mosque today. There's been a lot of talk about those shots being fired. Allawi's camp says it was an assassination attempt. But you know a little bit about security in that country. What do you think?

COL. MATTHEW BOGDANOS, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Good morning, Betty, and thank you so much for having me. Yes, while I was sitting here I was watching that and my information is going to be limited to what I did see and hear.

NGUYEN: Sure.

BOGDANOS: But there are two things that struck me as I was watching. The first is that the protective security detail did rush Allawi out of the area, and that's...

NGUYEN: And we're seeing video of that right now.

BOGDANOS: And that's the correct approach to take, regardless of your assessment of the seriousness of the threat, whether it is or is not an assassination attempt. The key there is to move the target out of the area as quickly as possible. Speed is your best ally in that regard. And from my viewing of that, it seems that they did quite a good job of that. But as Nic was reporting -- Nic also reported that there were warning shots fired by the protective security detail of Allawi and that actually concerned me. You don't fire warning shots and you certainly don't want to fire warning shots -- warning shots rarely, if ever, work. Ordinarily they simply ramp up emotions, heighten the security issues, and cause people who are unarmed to get armed.

But, more crucially with regard to warning shots is whether you're firing an M-4, which is 5.56 mm or an AK-47, a 7.65 mm bullet. These bullets go in the air, they don't disintegrate, they don't vanish, they don't go into the ether, they come back down.

NGUYEN: They come down, yeah.

BOGDANOS: Frequently with the lethal results as we see all the time when people throughout the world fire celebratory shots. So the return of warning shots actually concerned me as I was watching.

NGUYEN: But is that the culture over there? Is the firing of warning shots something that's often done?

BOGDANOS: Well, the firing of celebratory shots is something that is often done. And the other thing, I should point out...

NGUYEN: But warning shots, though. Is that something you saw much of in Iraq?

BOGDANOS: No. No. I didn't see warning shots. I saw celebratory shots and you see a lot of unaimed fire frequently, but not with a clear goal of warning shots. I should also point out though, crowds in Iraq, particularly, tend to be very loud even when it's happy. So the volume of the crowd, you know, didn't actually surprise me, whether they were happy or in this particular case angry. The throwing of the slippers, obviously, is a big deal...

NGUYEN: That's a derogatory sign, yeah...

BOGDANOS: Extraordinarily insulting.

NGUYEN: OK, and of course, we're going to follow this throughout the day to get more information on it. Nic Robertson, obviously was there, and was witness to a lot of it. Now, let's talk about your book, if we should.

Artifact, stolen artifacts. You know we heard about this, I remember when the news broke I was thinking, oh, my goodness! There was thousands of them. But when did you your investigation, what did you come up -- how many were missing?

BOGDANOS: Well, I heard the same reports that you did. I was the head of a counterterrorist team in southern Iraq in Basra conducting counterterrorist operations when I heard the reports of 170,000 items stolen by looters in 48 hours. And I -- Based on my background I immediately realized that the Iraqi museum, one of the finest museums in the world, if this was looted, this was a serious problem. So, I immediately put together a team, we went up to Baghdad to begin our investigation. Fortunately we discovered that the original reports of 170,000 were grossly, if somewhat, dramatically exaggerated. We ultimately determined that from the public galleries themselves, 40 items were stolen but these 40 items are extraordinary, priceless, exquisite...

NGUYEN: Only 40 items -- only 40 items not in the thousands?

BOGDANOS: Forty from the galleries themselves. Now from the storage rooms, there were an additional approximately 14,000 items, statues, pendants, amulets, pottery, shards, vessels and the like.

NGUYEN: Yeah, precious pieces of history. Who did this stealing?

BOGDANOS: You don't have enough time to discuss that. It's fair to say there were many dynamics at play here. We saw evidence of professional thieves, thieves who flew in from all over the world to conduct some of the thefts, waiting for a golden opportunity when the museum itself was unguarded during the chaos that is war. We also saw evidence of former staff members, sadly, engaging in the thefts. We also saw evidence of the neighborhood residents doing looting, as well as special republican guard soldiers doing the looting. It's fair to say that no one comes out scot-free...

NGUYEN: What about American soldiers? Because there were rumors at the beginning when all these items were known to be stolen that there was perhaps American soldiers on the ground who took part in it as well? What did you find?

BOGDANOS: No. In fact I heard the same rumors you did. And you cannot imagine the anger that I felt when I thought that it was possible that American soldiers or Marines were involved in any way, shape or form in the looting. Fortunately, after we arrived, we conducted a thorough investigation, we lived at the museum for close to six months, and we found absolutely no evidence whatsoever that any U.S. forces whatsoever, or journalists I'll put in that category, whatever were involved in the thefts or the looting from the museum.

NGUYEN: OK, well let's get to the pieces, because these are just beautiful pieces of art. And I want to give enough time so we can go through them. We're going to put some pictures up. There's a lot of gold jewelry that you were able to find. Kind of go through the story how you were able to find some of these items.

BOGDANOS: Sure. One of the greatest -- the photograph you're showing right now is what is called the Treasure of Nimrud, it was discovered in 1989 by an Iraqi archaeologist. It is considered one of the finest discoveries or the greatest discoveries of the 20th century. Rivaling that of King Tut...

NGUYEN: Really.

BOGDANOS: It is from four Assyrian kings 9th, 8th century BC, I'm sorry, four Assyrian queens from the north of Iraq. And this particular treasure is so priceless that when it was discovered in 1989 Saddam Hussein tried to send it on a worldwide exhibition in order to raise money. There was not a single company in the world willing to insure or underwrite that exhibit because it was too priceless.

NGUYEN: What about this vase here?

BOGDANOS: The sacred Vase of Warka arguably one of the most historically significant pieces known to humankind. It's a Samarian piece from about 3200 BC. It is the first known natural -- depicting of human life. You'll see that it's showing in four registers, men providing gifts to the goddess in...

NGUYEN: So, how did you find these items, quickly, if you will.

BOGDANOS: Sure, we recovered all together over 5,000 items...

NGUYEN: My.

BOGDANOS: And each one of them had their own special story. Some where walk-ins, some we learned their whereabouts from drinking more tea then I though humanly possible. There are teahouses throughout... There's a lot of intrigue -- a lot of mystery and investigation in this book. One last thing I want to go through, very quickly, though. What is the most precious piece, the most precious item that you have not been able to find to date?

BOGDANOS: Oh, that's easy and it's actually on the cover of my book and it's the reason it's on the cover of the book. The lioness attacking a Nubian boy is a 9th century Assyrian ivory -- extraordinary ivory. And it is the single most historically significant piece that is still missing...

NGUYEN: And you're still looking for it?

BOGDANOS: Exactly, I am still looking for it and will not be satisfied until we've recovered it and that's why it's on the cover...

NGUYEN: I was going to say this a great way to get the picture out there on the cover of this book. You see it, you read the book and then maybe you can help solve the mystery. We thank you so much for you tonight -- time today, this is really a fascinating story. Unfortunately it's a real story and maybe it'll have a happy ending when you find all of these artifacts. Thank you for your time.

BOGDANOS: Thank you, Betty.

NGUYEN: Tony.

HARRIS: And Betty, when we come back, we'll spend a couple of minutes with the New Orleans councilwoman representing the French Quarter, Jackie Clarkson. But first a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And as advertised a couple minutes now with Jackie Clarkson she is the councilwoman from New Orleans representing the French Quarter. Jackie, good to see you. Thanks for sticking around, too.

JACKIE CLARKSON, NEW ORLEANS CITY COUNCIL: Good morning Tony. No, thank you.

HARRIS: Hey, I have to ask, you know there's some controversy out there that suggests the French Quarter is getting way too much attention in this recovery effort and not enough attention going to some of the other areas affected by Katrina. First of all, do you believe that is true? And if it's true, should that be the case given that the French Quarter really needs to rebound if tourists are to come back to the city?

CLARKSON: Well, I have more than the French Quarter in my district. I have the West Bank, which is Algiers, I have Marigny, Bywater, Faubourg, Saint John, Saint Roch, Esplanade Ridge, and Treme. I have one-fifth of the city and it's the heart of the historic center of the city. And the French Quarter has to be the lead. It's the economic engine without which the city won't move forward as far as rebuilding our economic base, our revenues and, yes, our tourism. It's our major attraction. It's our major industry.

HARRIS: Yeah, so Jackie, what aspect of this recovery has been the most frustrating for you as you watched it unfold?

CLARKSON: Getting answers from the federal government. We need an immediate severe commitment on proper flood protection, which we deserve, and a commitment that we're going to have better levees and better performance in terms of flood control, coastal erosions and adequate levee protection, immediately, that commitment -- with a commitment that they won't stop until we are as protected as the Netherlands.

And secondly, we need the United States government, the president and Congress, to ensure that our people have answers privately. Quit trying to create federal programs that will take federal control. Give our people the ability to take back their own city. This city is rebuilding faster than America can count. And we're doing it on our own. We're doing it on our own. My district, which is one-fifth of the city, is almost fully restored. And we have no help yet. Come on! We're worth saving. You know, we're not just the "Big Easy" and the place to have a good time and a wonderful multicultural capital of America. We're also an economic heartbeat of this America. We're the Mississippi River. We are the strategic oil reserves of the northeast.

HARRIS: So...

CLARKSON: We are major gas protection, seven ports. Come on!

HARRIS: So Jackie...

CLARKSON: So, we're important!

HARRIS: And Jackie we're -- yeah. And don't dwell on the negative is what I hear you saying. And I apologize that we have to...

CLARKSON: Absolutely!

HARRIS: I apologize that we have to run, but we are flat out of time. We are long in this program. Thanks for your time, Jackie.

CLARKSON: We want to quit blaming and lead forward!

HARRIS: OK Jackie, thank you.

All right. "RELIABLE SOURCES" is up next with Howard Kurtz. Have a great weekend, everyone.

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