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CNN Sunday Morning
Car Bombing in Karbala; Iraqi Bloggers Try to Survive; Church Preaches Against Porn
Aired April 29, 2007 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, hello, everybody. From the CNN Center here in Atlanta, it is Sunday, April 29th. Good morning. I'm Betty Nguyen.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: My goodness. You're a little more upbeat than I was ready for.
NGUYEN: You like that? You're still trying to wake up, aren't you?
HOLMES: Yes, I am not quite there yet.
NGUYEN: But you're there, you're going to get there.
HOLMES: The lights are on, should be good. Hey there, everybody, I'm T.J. Holmes. Glad you all could be here with us.
Up first here, I need to tell you about anger and outrage in Iraq this morning after a bombing on sacred ground. Local hospitals unable to cope with the number of dead and injured. We are live in Baghdad.
NGUYEN: And we're live in Istanbul, Turkey. Check this out. We're going to show you some more live pictures where you are actually going to see tens of thousands of people demonstrating, red flags everywhere. We'll find out what this is all about.
Plus...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZACHARY TRAYES-GIBSON, HELPED FIGHT OFF MUGGER: Heard a scream, saw a woman down on the ground with the man on the top of her, assaulting her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Yes. That woman being attacked was a former senator and one-time presidential candidate. We will hear from the young man who actually came to her rescue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which will give us really our best chance for severe weather really right along this I-35 corridor.
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEROLOGIST: So things could get pretty loud pretty quickly?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Well, he is no ordinary meteorologists. You knew that. Our own Reynolds Wolf, the storm chaser, spots five tornadoes in just one day. We have his remarkable video ahead on this CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
HOLMES: But we start in Iraq and the frustration boiling over for some civilians there, throwing rocks at police in the wake of a deadly car bomb attack in Karbala. At least 58 people killed in that attack on their way to evening prayers. Some there now angrily confronting Iraqi forces over the lack of protection.
This comes as the military announced the deaths of nine more American service members, four killed yesterday in separate bombings outside Baghdad. Five killed on Friday, three of those were soldiers, two of those Marines, all dying in combat in Anbar province. The official U.S. death toll for eye the Iraq War now at 3,345.
Now for more on that devastating attack in Karbala, we turn to CNN's Hugh Riminton, who is live for us in Baghdad this morning.
Hello, Hugh.
HUGH RIMINTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, T.J.
The news, the grief, I suppose, seems to be never-ending, another nine American families mourning their dead. But in the city of Karbala, which has seen big bombs in the past, this one absolutely devastating, 58 dead, 170 people wounded. Shia Iraqis once again mourning their losses after another massive suicide car bombing .
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RIMINTON (voice-over): It was approaching nightfall, half an hour before evening prayers at one of the holiest sites in Shia Islam. A suicide car bomber pulled up at a checkpoint. It was as close as he could get to the Shrine of Imam Hussein, the grandson of the Prophet Mohammed.
The explosion left sacred ground strewn with the bodies of the dead and the dying. It was two weeks to the day since the last car bombing here killed 44 people and injured scores more. This time, local hospitals were unable to cope with the casualties. Some of the injured were ferried to neighboring provinces.
Karbala suffered one of the first post-invasion sectarian atrocities, more than 100 killed in March 2004, when an explosion ripped through pilgrims during Ashura, the holiest of the Shia festivals.
It was the bombing of another sacred Shia site, the Golden Mosque at Samara, north of Baghdad, in February last year that sparked Iraq's full-throttle descent into a sectarian civil war.
RIMINTON (on camera): Since then, thousands have died across Iraq. Hundreds of thousands have fled their homes. Entire towns have changed hands between Sunni and Shia.
Where the Sunni-allied terrorist groups favor massive suicide bombings, the Shia militias strike back with death squads, every night leaving bodies to be found across the streets of the major towns.
RIMINTON (voice-over): This latest explosion came just hours after radical Shia cleric and militia leader, Muqtada al-Sadr, taunted U.S. President George W. Bush in a letter read to the Iraqi parliament.
"You say there will be chaos if America leaves," he said. "How could it be worse than the chaos now?"
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIMINTON: So the critical question there, T.J., if the United States was to withdraw or draw down their troops, what would happen? Would there be more violence or perhaps less? Still at this stage most analysts saying that at least in the short term, there would be an uptick in sectarian violence if the Americans were to pull out.
HOLMES: And, Hugh, we know that the U.S. has poured billions of dollars into reconstruction projects in Iraq. Well, a report out now saying that some of those construction projects not going the way they should. What can you tell us about it?
RIMINTON: More depressing demoralizing news. The U.S. Congress approved about $20 billion for Iraqi reconstruction projects. The report of the special inspector general who has audited those projects, see how they are getting along, is about to go towards Congress. It is grim reading.
He says many of the projects have never been completed. Of those that have been completed, many are very shoddy. They're already starting to break down, and the question goes, how much of that was money simply wasted?
Not just money, the report says more than 1,000 civilian contractors have died on U.S.-funded projects for reconstruction in Iraq, and more than a quarter of those are American citizens.
HOLMES: Yes. That would make that report tough reading there. Hugh Riminton for us in Baghdad. Thank you so much, Hugh.
NGUYEN: Well, let's take you from Iraq to Washington now and the debate over paying for the war. A new funding bill is expected to come across the president's desk on Tuesday. President Bush has promised to veto the $124 billion plan. And that is because the Democrat-led congress included a timetable for withdrawing troops.
Democrats don't have enough support to overturn the veto so leaders from both parties are invited to the White House Wednesday to discuss the next step.
Today at 1:00 Eastern, "THIS WEEK AT WAR," CNN correspondents discuss the debate over progress in Iraq and the war of words over the funding. Tom Foreman hosts "THIS WEEK AT WAR" today at 1:00 Eastern.
NGUYEN: All right. Want you look at this video that we're going to show you right now, live pictures coming in to CNN, a sea of red in parts of Turkey today. The scene in Istanbul, where demonstrators are demanding the government of Turkey remain nonreligious. The parliament is in the process of picking the country's new president. But there's only one candidate, and some of his critics fear he's going to push the secular government toward Islam.
Now that possibility is literally a red flag. Now for those live pictures from the Turkish military which has warned it might intervene if it perceives Turkey shows signs of becoming an Islamic state. Of course, we're going to be watching this.
We're also going to be watching this story, Paul Wolfowitz tomorrow, that is when the troubled president of the World Bank is expected to make his case before a special panel. The panel is investigating whether Wolfowitz violated bank rules. Now at the center of these allegations, favoritism. Critics charge Wolfowitz used his position to arrange a high-paying State Department job for his girlfriend in 2005.
The White House released a statement supporting Wolfowitz saying, quote: "We have full confidence in Paul Wolfowitz and expect that he will be able to work the process at the World Bank," end quote. A decision from the World Bank's board is expected this week.
HOLMES: The debate over immigration reform back in the spotlight. Immigration marches and rallies planned around the country this week and President Bush dressed the issue during a commencement speech in Miami yesterday. The president told the audience the nation's immigration system is broken and in need of an overhaul.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am a strong supporter of comprehensive immigration reform that will allow us to secure our borders and enforce our laws once and for all, that will keep us competitive in a global economy, and that will resolve the status of those who are already here, without amnesty and without animosity.
HOLMES: The president favors a path to citizenship for some illegal immigrants and a temporary worker program.
Well, if you know him, you know what he thinks about illegal immigration, it's our Lou Dobbs we're talking about. Well, Dobbs and Rick Sanchez had a pretty spirited conversation, shall we say, on that topic. Here's just a bit of that conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Should there not be a little bit of room for tolerance? Are we not judged by how we treat the least amongst us?
LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": I don't think you could find a more tolerant nation in the world, could you, Rick? This nation brings in lawfully more than 2 million immigrants a year. That is...
SANCHEZ: And that's what makes...
DOBBS: Let me finish.
SANCHEZ: Go ahead.
DOBBS: That is more than the rest of the world combined. And yet, I hear the effrontery that this is not a welcoming nation?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And you'll see much more in our Sunday spotlight tonight at 10:00 Eastern and the entire network is turning the spotlight on the issue of immigration this week. Tuesday, May 1st, we'll have coverage throughout the day, among other things, we're covering immigration rallies across the country.
Then on Wednesday night, Lou Dobbs is live in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, for a "Broken Borders" town hall meeting. It's CNN's prime time special Wednesday night at 8:00 Eastern.
NGUYEN: Well, former Senator and presidential candidate Carol Moseley Braun is nursing a broken wrist after being mugged. The attacker made a grab for her purse Friday night outside her Chicago home. Braun fought back, kept her bag but went down on her arm, which is now in a cast. A local college student was walking by with a friend and helped Braun fight off that attacker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRAYES-GIBSON: Heard a scream, and turned and looked and saw a man on top of a woman -- of this woman, assaulting her, throwing punches and grabbing at her. So he turned and just ran, I ran towards him. As we approached, Rich (ph) yelled out, hey, he looked up, and I started running faster. And he got up and ran in the opposite direction. So I chased him to the next block at which point he stopped and hid behind some cars, the brake lights go up, he just peels out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Well, Braun is calling the student and his friend heroes for good reason. She says they may have saved her life. Police are still looking for that mugger.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HOLMES: I don't know what you had for breakfast this morning...
NGUYEN: Uh-oh.
HOLMES: But some people are having porn with their pancakes.
NGUYEN: Oh my.
HOLMES: Yes. They are being served up together at Sunday church services, a controversial topic taking center stage as pastors put it all out in the open. The founder of the XXX Church is going to join us live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERONICA DE LA CRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Immigration is a hot topic among Internet pundits. Whatever your opinion on the matter, there is a blog that amplifies it. Illegalaliens.us considers it a criminal matter. Right on its home page, it declares calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a burglar an "uninvited house guest."
Now for a Latino perspective to immigration, there is Houston- based Dos Centavos, which is Spanish for "two cents." Some blogs see tragedies like the mass shootings at Virginia Tech as an immigration issue. The PrestoPundit even keeps a macabre scorecard of what it calls the "immigrant mass murder syndrome." Curious reading if you're into that sort of thing.
And a site quoted by many blogs is this one, the Center for Immigration Studies. It bills itself as a nonpartisan, nonprofit think tank. CIS says it favors fewer legal immigrants but wants them to get, quote, "a warmer welcome." And that's a quick look at a few immigration blogs for the.com|Desk.
I'm Veronica De La Cruz.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: I want to you to take look at what happened in the skies over Phoenix yesterday, a major dust storm fueled by 50 mile-per-hour winds just blasted that area. Power was out for several hours and the caper? Well, temperatures in Phoenix yesterday topped 100 degrees for the first time this year. Let me give you an I-Report of the dust storm approaching. Check that out. No, those aren't just cloudy skies, it is dust. This was taken by Todd Gunn of Phoenix. Pictures looking east from Phoenix to Squaw Peak.
HOLMES: Well, firefighters continue to battle two fires in southeast Georgia. The smaller one, about 50 percent contained. But good news, no homes no longer at risk.
NGUYEN: That's good, because over 20 have been destroyed in the fire. And the larger one is burning in Ware County, which is just outside of Waycross, Georgia. It's also 50 percent contained and that fire has burned 66,000 acres, 23 structures.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HOLMES: And Reynolds is going to be back in the next half hour. He's going to have a rare look at tornadoes he found in Kansas. Yes, he went looking for the doggone things. He went storm chasing.
NGUYEN: He found them.
HOLMES: And yes, he did. He's going to share some of the dramatic video with this. So we'll see you here shortly, Reynolds.
Also, a lot of folks you heard about blogging, a lot of people do it from the comfort of their living room, but a lot of folks have to do it from a war zone. Blogs from Baghdad, a peek into the lives of young Iraqis, the risks just to get to school, the dangers heading to the store or just visiting a friend. Stick around for that.
NGUYEN: Also the road runs out for the man dubbed the "most hated dad in America." Take a good look at him. CNN SUNDAY MORNING has his story when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, this Memorial Day weekend CNN SUNDAY MORNING wants to share your tributes to the military servicemen and -women who have died serving this country. But we need your help to make that happen. Send us your photos and video of loved ones your family has lost from wars present and past. And here is the important part. We want to you tell us about them, let us know how your family has coped.
There are two ways to reach us, log on to cnn.com/ireport or e- mail us directly at ireport@cnn.com.
HOLMES: Well, we hear CNN reports on the war in Iraq, or in Baghdad all the time. We have got CNN reporters there constantly. Well, the bloodshed, the politics, daily living, as much as we can we report about it in that volatile war zone.
NGUYEN: Yes. But no one know life in Baghdad like the people who live there, the people who call Baghdad their hometown. And reporter Paul Davies has some of their stories.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAUL DAVIES, ITV REPORTER (voice-over): The group of intelligent young Iraqis with access to digital cameras and the Internet have given us an insight into their world. They call it hometown Baghdad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was going to meet my friend in college and to prepare for the exams, but I couldn't get out today and I think the reason is -- well, why don't you just hear for yourself.
DAVIES: Hours later, Adel (ph) was still trapped in his room. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just going lay down, and listen to the symphony of bullets.
DAVIES: This student took his camera to Baghdad's engineering college, one of many places of education to be attacked by extremists.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The dean was assassinated and my friend lost a knee, another one lost a leg.
This one is a graduation certificate for a deceased student.
DAVIES: On his Web site, Adel describes being woken up by his little brother and cousin's nightmares and discovering the boys had witnessed murders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
DAVIES: In their blogs, the young Iraqis show us an existence where the electricity is off more often than it's on. Where the simplest journey means risking your life, anyone who can is leaving the country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to leave all my friends, all my family to go to a safe place where I can live safely without these dangerous things.
DAVIES: For those left behind, the nightly gun battles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That sound (INAUDIBLE) goes all night long.
DAVIES: Armed men outside, our blogger ready just in case they've come for his family tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm ready for anything. I got this gun actually, this pistol and I'm hoping to defend, you know, my family and myself.
DAVIES: Desperate measures in a desperate city where even these young Internet broadcasters know a camera must sometimes take second place to a gun.
Paul Davies, ITV News.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Well, one influential Iraqi taking a big public swipe at President Bush, an open letter from radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, read by his cousin in the Iraqi parliament. Al-Sadr again calling for U.S. troops to pull out, citing the Democrats' timetable. He also likened the president to Saddam Hussein's regime saying, quote, "your occupation is no different than the destructor's oppression." He went on to further chide the president saying again, quote here: "You are like the one-eyed anti-Christ. You look with one eye and refuse to look with the other." Meanwhile, today on "LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER" the battle between Congress and the president over the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice shares her thoughts along with two key congressmen, that is this morning at 11:00 Eastern.
NGUYEN: Also, chasing a storm instead of ducking for cover.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF: At about 5:30 in the afternoon, pay dirt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it on the ground?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well done!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I love it!
WOLF: It turns out this was just the beginning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Actual excitement over seeing a tornado. Some people really just run in the other direction and hide, but Reynolds Wolf and his team, they are tracking severe weather in Tornado Alley.
HOLMES: Also, something that may steer people away from those XX porn dirty word Web sites, tattletale software. This stuff will actually alert your friends, your family, your mama, even, if you visit a porn site. And you do not want mama to know so stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Chasing tornadoes, why, people, why? Who -- why do people do this? Very few do this. Well, we've got one of these crazies sitting next to us right now.
NGUYEN: Who absolutely loves this kind of stuff.
Welcome back, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen with T.J. Holmes, and our very own storm chaser Reynolds Wolf.
Yes, why are you doing this, Reynolds?
WOLF: See what happens? I get to come up to the big kids' desk. and when that happens, I get all kinds of flack, now that just happens sometimes.
NGUYEN: We just want you to be safe and sound.
HOLMES: Be OK. WOLF: I am safe and sound. You two are...
NGUYEN: You're safe, we don't know about how sound you are when you chase storms like this.
WOLF: It can be a scary thing. I certainly am going to grant you that. When you chase tornadoes, there's never a guarantee. I actually had a chance to go out with a professional storm chaser two years ago. And we didn't see a thing after two days of chasing. But this time we went out with two young guys from Oklahoma City and we were lucky enough to, well, strike pay dirt.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF: I think he wants to get us closer but is afraid of getting us right in the direct path of the tornado. ] (voice-over): I wish I could say that I had magically drove to this very spot in rural Kansas and saw this funnel cloud, but it didn't happen that way. It was the end of a long day of driving, and guessing, and not knowing if we'd be successful. They don't call it storm chasing for nothing.
It all began about 9:30 in the morning in Oklahoma City last Tuesday morning, where I joined up with storm chaser Scott Ganson (ph) and Andrew Oldaker. The weather was sunny and it looked like there could be a little bit of activity later in the day. The trick was figuring out where.
(on camera): Well, the way things stand right now, it's early morning. The chase hasn't even begun yet. Outside we have got skies that are mostly sunny. That's important because the sunshine helps destabilize the atmosphere.
ANDREW OLDAKER, STORM CHASER: You're looking for where these storms are going to fire first, number one. And then you're looking for a combination, where the better shear will be, and where the better instability will be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which will give us really our best chance for severe weather really right along this I-35 corridor.
WOLF: So things could get pretty loud pretty quickly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
WOLF: So we headed towards Kansas.
(on camera): Right now we're in Blackwell, Oklahoma. We've been driving north from Oklahoma City right along I-35. As you can tell, the skies above still very cloudy. What we're hoping for is a little bit of a break in the cloud cover. We're hoping to get some sunshine.
(voice-over): It was still early. Our best guess was to keep heading north. A few hours' drive put us in Kansas and it was obvious that we were on the right path.
(on camera): Well, now we are in Wichita, Kansas. We've just stopped for a bit of a pit stop to recharge the batteries, and also take some promising observations. For example, look up in the sky. We're seeing a few places where blue skies are showing through, sunshine is going to filter down to the Earth and what that is going to do is actually good in terms of storm chasing.
(voice-over): Our radar indicated that things were beginning to pop over the prairie. Now, sensing that we were about to get what we came for, we got off the interstate and drove northwest toward the town of Nickerson. Then at about 5:30 in the afternoon, pay dirt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it on the ground?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well done!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I love it!
WOLF: It turns out this was just the beginning. We drove down the road a short distance to get a better view.
(on camera): We want to get close but we don't want to get that close.
(voice-over): For the next hour we watched the swirling black clouds as they poked towards the ground, pulled back and then dropped down again. It was incredible.
(on camera): Well, we're seeing the wall cloud and right out of the bottom we're seeing that funnel coming down. Contact has been made, even though you don't see the funnel itself making that contact with the ground, you can see the debris being picked up. So that's your tornado.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF: I feel like a 3-year-old when I see that. It's like a 3- year-old on Christmas morning. I mean, let's be clear here. These tornadoes can be deadly. It's a dangerous thing but when you see "great tornadoes," and I refer these as "good tornadoes" because there was no damage, no lives were lost, these were perfect tornadoes on a perfect day. We didn't have any heavy rainfall, we didn't have any large hail. And the sun was just setting over the horizon so everything was lit up and just fantastic.
One thing that I took away from this though is how quickly these things can form, which is something we always tell our viewers, when we have tornado warnings we want to you take shelter immediately. And that is the reason why. These things are sporadic. When they pop up, they pop up quickly.
Sometimes that warning -- what's interesting is we saw all of these pop up and then moments afterwards, the town that was close by, Nickerson, Kansas, you could finally hear the tornado warnings and the sirens going off. So only a...
(CROSSTALK)
NGUYEN: Just look at that forming out of the sky. It's so distinct.
WOLF: It really and truly is. You have some of these tornadoes that are huge, the huge classic wedge shape, you know, just incredible, wedge tornadoes, but these were really the weaker variety, and trust me, I'm not complaining. We got to see all of the cool aspects of it without really being in danger.
HOLMES: And we know we give you a joke about chasing and all of that stuff, but still, there are some -- you can get some -- learn some things that could help folks later on down the line...
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: ... predicting tornadoes. So there's some science and some good to be done in that as well.
NGUYEN: Well, and you know, you have got to be a meteorologist if you equate seeing a tornado to Christmas morning, I mean, for goodness sakes, Reynolds.
(LAUGHTER)
NGUYEN: Yes. We know what to get you, right. Talk to you later.
HOLMES: All right. Thanks, Reynolds.
WOLF: You bet.
HOLMES: Well, America's food supply, the ports, power systems, are they all vulnerable to terror attacks? Tonight at 8:00, "CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT" looks at whether the government is ignoring vulnerabilities at home. You can join Anderson Cooper tonight at 8:00 Eastern for "We Were Warned: Edge of Disaster."
NGUYEN: Do want to give you an update now on a story that you may have missed last week. Byron Perkins may be known as the worst dad in America. His story, a big time felon let out of jail to donate a kidney to his dying son, only to skip the country. Now he and his girlfriend, well, they are back.
And CNN's Susan Candiotti has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you have to say to your son Destin? You promised him a kidney...
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With nothing to the say to the son he deserted, Byron Perkins and girlfriend Lea Ann Howard were escorted back to the U.S. Authorities say they've been hopscotching around Mexico, doing odd jobs to keep under the radar, but their luck ran out.
JOE CHAVARRIA, U.S. MARSHAL: Unfortunately for them, they came back to a place where everyone was looking for them. They had been there last year.
CANDIOTTI: Perkins, nicknamed the most hated dad in America, busted in Mexico, back in the U.S., in a heap of trouble. A dad who cried in front of a judge who let him out of jail last year so he could donate a kidney for his son, Destin, a son who desperately needed a kidney to live.
Perkins fooled them all and took off running with his girlfriend. It was only after CNN ran the story that tourists in Mexico recognized him and called police. The couple had run up a hotel and bar bills and skipped out on those too.
For over a year, the U.S. Marshals searched for the odd couple and finally caught up with them in Puerto Vallarta. Authorities say they spent time before that near Manzanillo. Last fall we visited with Destin after he got a new kidney from an anonymous donor. Back then he said this about his dad, and his mom says nothing has changed.
(on camera): Do you think you could ever forgive him?
DESTIN PERKINS, SON OF ARRESTED FUGITIVE: Forgive him? Probably not. That's a pretty bad thing that he did to me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: And that was CNN's Susan Candiotti reporting. Now want to give you one last note on this story. Perkins faces federal charges in Kentucky.
HOLMES: All right. Will getting you closer to God get you further away from online pornography?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRAIG GROSS, XXXCHURCH,COM: Pornography is fantasy, it is not real. It doesn't bring you close with your loved one it, it tears you apart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: I know that was a bit much for a Sunday morning.
NGUYEN: I'd say.
HOLMES: But we'll be talking to one pastor who may be the last resort for many porn addicts, Christians battling for salvation. That is next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
NGUYEN: Folks will definitely stay tuned to that.
And pass 100, collect $50,000, are you for real? We're going to explain coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: In our "Faces of Faith" segment, we're talking about porn and the pulpit. Not two things you normally put together we realize. But for Christians addicted to pornography, the once taboo topic now being tackled in church and in cyberspace.
CNN's David Mattingly reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pornography is a multi-billion dollar industry, and it might be hard to miss but somewhere among all the adult products and xxx pictures ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You get a free Bible yet?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Real pastors, real church, real Bibles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesus loves porn stars, he loves you.
MATTINGLY: There's an all out battle for souls, and Christians fear they're losing.
GROSS: Pornography is fantasy, it's not real. It doesn't bring you closer with your loved one. It tears you apart.
MATTINGLY: Craig Cross founded xxxchurch.com to help Christians struggling with the temptations of pornography. He believes the numbers are growing for both church-goers and ministries.
GROSS: We watched Ted Haggard. That's not the start of Porn Boulevard. That's the end of Porn Boulevard..
MATTINGLY: Gross organizes church groups called "Porn and Pancakes" to get the issue out in the open. When prayer and Bible study aren't enough, he also offers free tattletale software.
GROSS: You know you're caught. You know you're stuck.
MATTINGLY: Gross says there has been 300,000 downloads so far. Anytime the user visits a porn site, the program automatically alerts a friend, a spouse, or a pastor.
GROSS: If it slows you down just a bit and you start to think about the -- you know, the consequences and you might change your ways.
MATTINGLY: But when porn becomes an addiction, the only hope for some is to get away. At the Pure Life Ministries in rural central Kentucky, porn addicts spend six months on a desperate path to salvation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're given over to lust, fantasies, masturbation and pornography, you are on dangerous ground.
MATTINGLY (on camera): All of the men in this room have left behind jobs, homes and in some cases a wife and children. Some come here thinking, this is their last chance to break their porn addiction because after six months, that's it. They're not allowed to come back.
(voice-over): The program demands intense Bible study and discipline. Many here used to spend hours a day viewing porn and looking for ways to satisfy their fantasies, often resorting to prostitutes. This resident named Jerry believes getting closer to God will help him get way from the porn and the chat rooms that almost ruined his marriage.
"JERRY," ADDICTED TO PORNOGRAPHY: I cheated on my wife.
MATTINGLY (on camera): Was that driven by the pornography?
"JERRY": Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, one thing leads to another. I mean, in time, it's just not enough.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Privacy here is nonexistent. New arrivals sleep 16 to a room. There's limited free time, but plenty of time for prayer.
(on camera): I don't see a television. I don't see any computers. Is that by design?
JEFF COLON, HEAD COUNSELOR, PURE LIFE MINISTRIES: Yes, it is. We try to avoid any outside temptation these men might have to deal with through TV or magazines.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): There are no books here either, except for the Bible and study materials, with scriptural lessons on guilt, anger, depression and selfishness. Head counselor Jeff Colon says the real test is leaving the structured environment and going home.
COLON: We do live in a sexualized culture, and it is difficult for these men when they leave here. It doesn't help.
MATTINGLY: The Kentucky ministry believes most of their residents will eventually gain control of their addictions. But when temptation is so readily available, every day can become a new test of faith.
David Mattingly, CNN, Williamstown, Kentucky.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: All right. And joining me now to talk about their mission are Craig Gross, founder of the xxxchurch.com, based in Grand Rapids, Michigan, also Reverend Alan Parker, pastor of New Vision Church in Fayetteville, Georgia. Gentlemen, welcome. People have been talking about this topic since we told them we were going to have it on this morning. So let's xxxchurch.com. Now of course you know people out there need all kind of ministering. Why focus in on this attention-grabbing, no doubt, topic of porn?
GROSS: Well, almost 40 million people a day log on to pornographic Web sites, and just in the Christian community alone, almost 50 percent of Christian families say that pornography is a huge struggle in their home. So if the church doesn't talk about it, you know, who is going to? Where are we going to get our advice from and where are we going to get our help from?
HOLMES: So who is talking about it besides you? Are other churches? Are there other outreaches and churches out there? I haven't heard of any?
GROSS: There's not a lot going on amongst the church world yet. We're inundated with images every day, you know, porn is on iPods, porn is on cell phones, porn is Nintendo stations these days. And now with the Internet where we have brought this into every home in America, why isn't the church responding to this? So that's why we're, as a ministry, trying to help churches like Alan's church here in addressing this issue.
HOLMES: Now some churches are responding. Like you said, Alan's church here in Georgia, how are people reacting when you -- and why did you want to bring this to your church?
REV. ALAN PARKER, PASTOR, NEW VISION CHURCH: The reaction has been -- there has been no negative response. We have ran full-page ads in the local paper and the heading is "Pancakes and Porn." And so we've had some people call with some humorous comments but we hadn't had any negatives. And one of the things too that has been such a God thing is the fact that in this direction we wanted to go, our church in particular, New Vision, has gotten behind it 100 percent.
And you've seen people say that's an issue that is not being dealt with. That's something we've got to talk about. Our school superintendent even agreed, let's get this word out in our middle schools and high schools and invite them to this because this information has to get out to folks.
HOLMES: What is the interpretation? Either one of you, tell me, of what the Bible says about something like this, about porn, about masturbation, as you talked about. Is there a porn passage essentially in the Bible somewhere?
GROSS: Well, the Bible says don't even look at a woman with lust in your eyes. The Bible also says flee from sexual immorality. And that's the question today in the world we live in where we're bombarded with sexual images every day, how do we just run away from it? And so what we're trying to do in the church is saying, you know what, we have got to have accountability, we've got to have some parameters kind of set up in our own lives and we must talk about it. Because you're not going to get rid of a dirty little secret if you're not going to talk about it.
HOLMES: And you mentioned, Alan, junior high and high schools. Is this going to be a thing where, I mean, we tell kids, don't do drugs, we tell don't smoke cigarettes, we need to tell them, don't look at porn, we need to do this, that at that early of an age?
PARKER: I think so. Because I think there's a lot of stuff that influences young people's life today. And if they start out in an area -- and men especially being visually driven, if they start out in an area that begins to give them a false view of what a woman is, how a woman is to be treated, then they grow through those patterns and those steps.
And as they get older, they don't understand relationships, they don't understand how to really see a woman and how that can bring the unity together as God intended in scripture.
HOLMES: Now are these seminars -- and the things you teach on xxxchurch.com, is this just for people who are -- porn is affecting their lives and their relationships or is this for people who might just, you know, go check it out once in a while? Is there even an acceptable level of porn consumption, if you will?
GROSS: You know, I don't think there's anything -- such thing as please watch porn responsibly or I just watched a little.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: It's amazing. No. It's a little bit messes up the whole equation here. But one of the things, when we started five years ago and we did events like this, you know, people would literally drive around the parking lot because if there's five or six cars, they don't want to show up.
Now what we're telling people is look, just because you show up at these events doesn't mean you struggle. Maybe someone in your family, maybe it's, you know, one of your kids. If you're raising kids today and you have the Internet, you must talk about this. So it could be you.
Maybe if it's not you, hey, you're that support for that friend of yours or that family member that's going through this. You need this information.
HOLMES: All right. We've got to let you go, big guys. Got to find out, you're teaching this so either one of you guys admit having any issues with porn?
GROSS: You know, nowadays I'm not looking at this, but sure, I've looked at pornography growing up as a kid. I think times are changed though now. I used to go looking for it and it was hard to find. Nowadays, living in the world today, especially young people growing up, you're bombarded with this stuff and its hard to stay away from. But we're going to suggest to people, hey, this isn't part of God's plan and it's a cheap substitute for the real thing. HOLMES: All right. Well, a fascinating topic. Certainly got a lot of people's attention and the "Pancakes and Porn" session going on at your church right now. I usually have scrambled eggs with my pancakes, but that's all right. Gentlemen, Craig Gross, Alan Parker, gentlemen, really, thank you for coming in. And we'll keep an eye on this, see where you guys go over the next couple of years. All right? Thank you so much.
Betty, please.
NGUYEN: Whew, you may just want to stick with those eggs and pancakes, that's all well and good, thank you, T.J.
Well, what is the secret to living being 100? One centenarian says he had a bet on it and he actually won. We're going to show you what he won.
Plus, rating the president's moves. Check those out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's like watching an elephant dance. It's not how good they are but it's that they can dance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: We'll make the "moost" of this with Jeanne Moos. That is next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
NGUYEN: All right. This is a scene from the movie "Madagascar," to get us in the dancing move. So you can say what you will about the dance moves President Bush had this week, he was busting a move this week at the White House.
HOLMES: I was impressed, actually.
NGUYEN: You liked this actually (ph)?
HOLMES: I liked the theme, Mr. President.
NGUYEN: Whatever that was?
HOLMES: I'm with you, all right? The video certainly has legs. Here now is CNN's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ditch the presidential seal, lose the podium, make way for the dancer in chief. Already seen it you say? Bet you haven't seen everywhere it ended up after you first saw it. Jay Leno didn't even bother to make a joke.
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW:: This is your president at work.
MOOS: Jon Stewart ended his show with it.
JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW": Here it is, your moment of Zen.
MOOS: David Letterman slipped it into his great moments in presidential speeches segment.
FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT, 32ND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The only thing we have to fear...
JOHN F. KENNEDY, 35TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ask not...
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW": You get the feeling that he might be under the impression that he's attending a luau.
MOOS: And after viewing it at "The View," they scored it.
ELISABETH HASSELBECK, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": I'm giving our president a...
(CHEERING)
MOOS: Our president seems to like to shake his thing. Here he was in Brazil joining in the festivities. And here he was in the former Soviet Republic of Georgia. He hears music, his head bobs. His hands do that robotic thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He dances like a white guy from Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think he'll ever end up on "Soul Train."
MOOS: The guy who could derail "Soul Train" is Karl Rove. Rove makes President Bush look like Michael Jackson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's kind of like this, he's kind of like this, and yes, he was getting into it.
MOOS (on camera): Maybe the best way to judge the president's moves is by the laughter and applause each move got on the comedy shows.
(voice-over): Drumming. Horizontal hand gestures. Upraised arms with fingers pointed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a kind of "woo!". You have to give the man credit for getting out there and doing it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The poor benighted fellow (ph), him. As a former music student, I cannot endorse this kind of behavior.
MOOS: If you want better presidential boogying, head to the Internet where you determine the moves. There the president was publicizing Malaria Awareness Day. And before he is aware, the West African dance company director won't let him escape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no, you're not going like that, come on.
MOOS: At least President Bush didn't go as wild as Russian President Boris Yeltsin, may he rest in peace. It's fun to watch our leaders let loose.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's like watching an elephant dance. It's not how good they are, but it's that they can dance.
MOOS: When a leader gets down, don't expect to him to live it down.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: I think more so than the action was facial expressions. Did you see that?
HOLMES: He was getting into it.
NGUYEN: What was with the mouth movement there? I don't know.
HOLMES: OK, Mr. President, people make faces when they get into it. When you bust a move.
NGUYEN: You were feeling it.
HOLMES: Do your thing. I was. Mr. President, do your thing.
NGUYEN: We need to see you dance. T.J.
HOLMES: Oh, no.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: (INAUDIBLE) like that.
NGUYEN: OK.
HOLMES: : Well, folks, did you know that if you turn 100 in England, you get a birthday card from the queen.
NGUYEN: Yes. And one old timer just got his card plus a whole lot more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Porridge for breakfast, porridge for breakfast. Do as little work as you can. Go on as many holidays as you can. And keep breathing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
NGUYEN: Yes. That's important, there you have it. OK. So the secret of long life is to eat porridge, as he said, play chess, and of course, keep breathing.
HOLMES: Remember to breathe. Alex Holden (ph) of England, he should know, just hit 100, still going strong. To keep it interesting, he had some money riding on the outcome.
NGUYEN: Yes. He made a small wager 10 years ago with a bookie that he could make it to 100 and that bookie took the bet, giving Holden 250 to 1 odds. So Holden's birthday present, a nice 50,000 smackeroos.
HOLMES: That has got to be tough for the bookie because he's essentially hoping the guy dies so he can win the bet.
NGUYEN: Well, but who does he collect from?
HOLMES: Good point. Good point. Well, stay here folks, we're going to be talking about holy places providing sanctuary to fugitives.
NGUYEN: Also, a look at how immigrants are taking refuge in churches. Are they breaking the law or actually lending a hand? We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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