Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Sunday Morning

Senator McCain Wins South Carolina Primary; Hillary Clinton Wins Nevada's Democratic Caucus

Aired January 20, 2008 - 09:00   ET


T.J. HOLMES, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Will, the Republican frontrunner please stand up? Somebody, anybody. We got two different contests and two different winners to tell you about. Yes, folks, primary season is in full effect. We're breaking it down for you this morning with the best political team on television.

BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I decided to run because of what Dr. King called the "fierce urgency of now."


SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Barack Obama is in Atlanta this morning to speak at Dr. Martin Luther King's church.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just like oil and water. Text messaging and driving your vehicle does not mix.


HOLMES: No. Yes folks, there are times multitasking is great, the drivers seat not one of them. And you're all guilty of it, but please, this is a serious, serious thing with serious consequences as we have seen in some instances. We'll be getting into that this morning. But, from the CNN center in Atlanta Georgia, news from around the world. Hi there everybody, I'm T.J. Holmes.

ROESGEN: And I'm Susan Roesgen filling in today for Betty Nguyen. Good morning. And here we go.

HOLMES: Yes, the Mac -- McCain feeling pretty good this morning possibly. Senator John McCain says his win in South Carolina's Republican primary will boost his presidential campaign in a major way.

ROESGEN: Yesterday's primary in South Carolina was the first southern battle. Voters there gave McCain his second straight primary win.

HOLMES: Still pretty close here, but hey a win's a win. He took 33 percent of the votes. Meanwhile, the son of the South, former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, who was hoping for a good showing in the first Southern contest, he was second with 30 percent. Meanwhile, former Tennessee senator Fred Thompson had his best showing so far of the primary season, he was third at 16 percent, Mitt Romney just behind with 15 percent.

And just a few minutes ago, our Dana Bash had a chance to sit down with the winner of the South Carolina primary, John McCain. He talked about his big win. We'll have that interview with Dana Bash when she joins us live from South Carolina. That's coming up for us at the bottom of the hour.

ROESGEN: Meanwhile, Republican Mitt Romney is savoring an easy win in the Nevada caucuses. He was the only Republican to make a real play for Nevada and wound up with 51 percent of the vote.


MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why we love Nevada. What a great state. And they have just made a wonderful day for us. In the last -- last week, that means two of the battleground states have come out strongly for our campaign. They've heard our message of change.


ROESGEN: Well, in the Democratic caucuses, Senator Hillary Clinton edged fellow Senator Barack Obama 51 to 45 percent, as you see there. Clinton won the overall state vote, but Obama got one more national delegate than she did.

HOLMES: And Senator Obama moved quickly, went from Nevada to Atlanta, next hour, he attends a worship service, speaks at Ebenezer Baptist Church, that of course the church of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. And our Jessica Yellin has made her way from Vegas to Atlanta and she joins us now from Ebenezer.

Good morning to you kind ma'am. And tell us about the significance and the timing of Obama's visit.

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi T.J., good morning. Well, it's clearly time to coordinate with Martin Luther King, Jr.'s birthday, it's the anniversary of his birth, but also just a historic moment in this campaign and for the nation. Clearly, Senator Barack Obama is the first viable African-American candidate for president the nation has seen, and the pastor at this church has said that he, Obama, represents the promise of the Civil Rights movement and the voting rights law. He is the answer to Ebenezer's prayers.

We understand that Senator Obama when he speaks will talk broadly about the importance for racial healing, reconciliation, but also beyond that, for the expansion of opportunity for all people, everybody who is disenfranchised or feels marginalized by the justice system, by the Department of Education that doesn't serve everyone well, he will make that point.

So, that's the substance of it. The politics of it? It couldn't be timed any better than it is. It comes just before Senator Obama heads off to South Carolina where is he counting on a victory, largely fueled by the African-American vote there. He wants to connect with a sense that he is both a leader for all of America, but also the representation of a promise for African-Americans in this country. And there's been some tension within the community that maybe it's not time the country isn't ready and he has been saying over and over to the African-American community, don't wait for other people to say it's time. Vote for me and you'll make it your own time.

So, it's a message that he's sort of narrow cast to the African- American community, but it's also broadening out to everyone talking about opportunity in America.

Now, I should note that senator Clinton has also been invited and been at this church before. Bill Clinton will be here tomorrow as will Governor Huckabee, all to honor Dr. Martin Luther King. But, an historic day here, the first time Barack Obama has spoken at this church - T.J.

HOLMES: All right. In downtown Atlanta. Ebenezer Baptist Church is going to be the site of the King holiday celebrations tomorrow. Jessica Yellin, there for us this morning. Jessica, thank you so much. Good to see you.

And coming up today, a game, if you will, the bowl game. Doesn't matters. I know there's another game going on today. A lot of Packers fans, Giants fans think it's pretty important. But this is one that you political junkies think is pretty important, as well, the BALLOT BOWL. The candidates are going to be here. You can her from all the contenders, they're going to be talking about the issues in their own words today at 1 p.m. Eastern only right here on CNN, of course, your home for politics.

ROESGEN: And the next test for the Republicans will be in Florida. Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani has focused efforts there for weeks. And he's going on the offensive against the other Republican candidates as they show up in state, now. Giuliani is calling on them to lay out their positions on national disaster relief. He says he was the first one to you support the idea of that.

And we want to let you know that CNN's Dana Bash has just interviewed Senator John McCain after his win in the South Carolina primary. She's had that interview in Charleston and here is some of what Senator McCain had to say.


DANA BASH, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Are you the frontrunner now?

SEN JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think we're doing very well. I'm optimistic about doing well in Florida and I'm glad we've had these wins and again, 28 years, whoever's won here has been the nominee.

BASH: Thank you, Senator, appreciate it.


ROESGEN: And you'll hear much more of that interview at the half hour.

Meanwhile, the British Airways jet that made that hard landing at London's Heathrow Airport last week is now being hauled off the runway. This is a live look there at the effort to move the jet off the runway. The Boeing 777 was carrying 152 people when it came down just short of the runway on the grass, 17 people were injured. Still don't have an exact cause but investigators believe the jet's engines failed.

HOLMES: Well, a lot of wild weather going on around the country, a lot of cold weather, too. But, let's show the wild weather first. The scene last night in Florida. High winds ripped through this particular area, the National Weather Service confirms two tornadoes along Florida's gulf coast. No injuries reported, however.

And then much farther north, you've got the really extremely cold temperatures. This is a frozen waterfall in Minnesota, the mercury there as low as 30 degrees below zero. But, the really cold weather doesn't deter skiers. The most determined skiers in upstate New York. They have been warned about frostbite which can set in very quickly on fingers and toes and exposed ears in these kinds of conditions. But, you see them out there anyway.

And hundreds of flights were cancelled yesterday at the nation's busiest airport. You didn't want to be there. The question is will the stranded passengers reach their destination today? We'll check in with CNN's Richard Lui at Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson.

Richard, people moving there, today? Are flights going out.

RICHARD LUI, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: They are. Good morning to you, Susan. We just spoke with the FAA and they're saying everything is A-OK, 126 arrivals, 96 departures each and every hour, that is normal.

Just spoke with a desk agent over at AirTrans, she said of the 50 flights they've been watching this morning, only nine were full, the rest had space. Also want to take a look at Delta, the largest operator out of Atlanta, only two out of 240 flights, that's less than one percent was cancelled. But, nevertheless, let's go back to those passengers. There are still some that are trying to figure out how to get to where they want to go.


J.B. GRENNELL, STRANDED PASSENGER: Yesterday, it started, we were supposed to fly out yesterday. Due to the weather, they cancelled all the flights. They transferred me from here to Delta after standing in line here, went to Delta, stood in line for them to tell us when we got to the front desk that all flights had been cancelled. Sent us back to the airport today, this morning early, to reissue our tickets and said we had to come here at U.S. Air. U.S. Air said I'm supposed to be at Delta. Which is really going to (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP) LUI: Well, Susan, you can get a sense there of how J.B. had to go through so much. I just spoke to him 30 minutes ago and that's what he said. It was a big four dimensional chess game, that's the way Delta described it to me when they had over 270 flights cancelled yesterday. They used a computer program, they look at the types of equipment that are available on the ground, they look at the types of crew that are available, and, of course, this thing, the day after, they're still trying to figure out how to get that four dimensional chess game all set to go. Back to you, Susan.

ROESGEN: OK, they'd better do it. Big drag for a lot of people. Thanks, Richard.

HOLMES: Well, there may be a suspect in the disappearance of little Madeleine McCann. We got some new information to tell you about. We've got the details.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't have to pay attention to what our grandmothers or grandfathers say. We believe that it can happen.


ROESGEN: Is there a generational divide among black Democrats? Will younger voters choose the same candidate at their parents?

HOLMES: Also, Reynolds Wolf braving the freezing temperatures for us at a place called the frozen Tundra. Good morning to you, sir.

REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: That's right, my friend. Good morning to you. You're right, the frozen Tundra. We're just a few blocks away from Lambeau Field, the site of the NFC championship between the Green Bay Packers and of course, the New York Giants. And the game gets underway at 6:30 tonight, Local Time. But already, the festivities are beginning.

Right now, we're right around a bunch of RVs there trying to stay warm, we got the wood piled up. And here in the heart of Packerland, we actually have some folks that have invaded enemy territory, some New York Giant fans that drove all the way from New York, made the big drive. We're going talk to them coming up in a few moments, right here on CNN SUNDAY MORNING. See you in a few.


HOLMES: All right. A lot of us consider ourselves football fans.

ROESGEN: Even I do. When it's the Packers.

HOLMES: Well how much of a football would you endure below zero weather for the Packers?

ROESGEN: Hey, if you're a Packer fan and you are in Green Bay, nothing will keep you out of tonight's NFC championship game at Lambeau Field. Reynolds Wolf is there trying to find some Giants fans too, huh, Reynolds?

WOLF: You're absolutely right. You know, here on this icy morning outside of Lambeau Field at Green Bay, I want to talk about something a little bit different. I want to talk about an island. That's right. An island. An island, a place of refuge away from Green Bay fans. We're talking about an island for New York Giant fans. This island is this big bus you see here, this big bus that made a 20-hour trip all the way from New York right here into Wisconsin, invaded the heart of Packer country. And we got some wild and weird guys that are on here. Great guys. The greatest fans in the whole world you're going to meet in just few moments. I love them to death and I know you will, too.

Come on down where and introduce yourself to America.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dave (OFF-MIKE) from Hamilton, New Jersey.

WOLF: This is Dave. We've got more, I believe. Keep going.

DAVE BARLOW, GIANTS FAN: Dave Barlow (ph), Hamilton Township, baby. Yeah!

WOLF: Representing.

MIKE STICKLER, GIANTS FAN: Good morning, Reynolds.

WOLF: Good morning to you.

STICKLER: Mike Stickler, Hamilton Township.

WOLF: Great to see you guys. How's it been so far?

STICKLER: Oh, it's been awesome. The people here in Wisconsin are the best around. They are so friendly. We've had a great time. Here with friends, Lambeau Field, how could it go any better?

WOLF: But wait, wait, you said they were friendly. How are they friendly to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got Leroy the beer man, works inside Lambeau Stadium for 25 years. We met him for five minutes, he put us in his truck, drove us all around Green Bay, took us to his house. He has a shrine down in his basement. He has the original carpeting, Russell, from the locker room that he cut out and he has in his basement. He had extra pieces. He gave us a piece of that.

WOLF: This is a piece of carpet from the locker room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Old locker room floor, absolutely. Fantastic.

WOLF: I don't know if that's a good thing or a nightmare.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a good thing.

WOLF: Wait, hold on a second. You're a Giant fan? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.

WOLF: Couldn't you have been more selective on the colors here?

BARLOW: Oh, this is my daughter Samantha Barlow. (INAUDIBLE)

WOLF: He's doing it for Samantha.

BARLOW: That's my daughter.

WOLF: There you go. Well, guys, let's go in and take a look. You talk about a shrine that you built. Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on in. Come on in.

WOLF: Show me what we have here. You're talking about a shrine that you had built in honor of your Green Bay fans. We're going to sneak up here. Watch your step, guys, too. America, this is a cool bus. Coming right up here. OK, let's see. We've got the cheese, we've got...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cheese. We've got a Green Bay hat, we got the Giants NFC championship from many years. We've got a piece of the Lambeau carpeting that Leroy the beer man gave us.

WOLF: From the locker room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the locker room.

WOLF: Guys this is probably not a scratch and sniff item. This probably something you want to...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a Hamilton West blanket from our football program at our high school. I'm a principal at the high school. And one of our head football coaches couldn't make it with us, so we brought his jersey instead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In honor of Tom Holden (ph).

WOLF: One more question for you guys, and I understand very, very well that you've been in cold conditions, obviously, you're with New York. We're going to step back outside the van, if you don't mind. I know you guys in New York are going to deal with cold conditions. But the question I have for you, is this is a little bit colder. How are you going to prepare for this game, these icy conditions?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're definitely going to layer up. Definitely going to layer up. And my mother told me bring my sleeping bag. I'll be safer in the sleeping bag. It's green for Green Bay, even though I'm a Giant fan, it's green for Green Bay and I'm going just to lay in the sleeping bag.

WOLF: Dude, you're going to look like Gumby in this thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keeping warm. No frostbite. That's the hope. You know, we loaded up our water at the White Horse Firehouse and thinking we could take showers and stuff here. It froze up. When it's minus 19 degrees, even if you have heaters on the water in a mobile home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything froze. It's brutal.

WOLF: But, they're still smiling and they're still having a great time. America, you met 'em. They're crazy, they're zany, great guys. And we're going to send it back to you in the studio.

ROESGEN: Yeah, they've also lost their voice already, Reynolds. That's not a good sign. A lot of shouting tonight in the stadium. Thanks.

WOLF: You bet, guys.

HOLMES: Well, we will turn from that competition to the political competition now, two Democrats claiming victory in Nevada. What's happening out there? Going to try to sort this out for you.


HOLMES: Well, this is a sketch just released of a man that two witnesses say was seen at a Portuguese resort the day that little toddler there, British toddler Madeleine McCann disappeared, she varnished last May and at the time one witness told police she saw a man carrying the girl from the apartments where Madeleine disappeared.

ROESGEN: Keeping the legacy alive. Martin Luther King's first grandchild is due this spring. It's going to be a baby girl. Atlanta media reports say King's eldest son Martin Luther King, III, made the announcement last night at a dinner in honor of the slain Civil Rights leader. He also revealed that he's been married for almost two years to Andrea Walters.

You know, events commemorating Dr. King's legacy will take place all across the country for the national holiday tomorrow. We remember a man who stood for racial harmony and peace, but race has become a divisive issue in the design of the King memorial in Washington.


(voice over): Denver sculptor, Ed Dwight, has made probably more statues of Martin Luther King than anyone else. Through years of practice, he knows the shape of King's face as well as his own and he has designed King memorials all around the country.

ED DWIGHT, SCULPTOR: Out of each one of these things, there is a characteristic that you can associate with one thing or the other.

ROESGEN (on camera): The tallest monument in the country right now is right here in Denver, it's this one, and the sculptor is Ed Dwight.

(voice over): With so much experience, Dwight thought he would design the statue for the new National King memorial in Washington, a 30-foot tall monument which will stand right between the statues of Lincoln and Jefferson. The catch is, the memorial will be carved in granite and Dwight works only in bronze.

HARRY JOHNSON, MLK MEMORIAL PROJECT FOUNDATION: We looked all around for artists who could do this in America and we found there were a lot of African-American artists that able to do it in the medium of bronze, but not in granite and we were looking for someone who could do this in granite.

ROESGEN: The memorial foundation contacted Dwight initially and Dwight says he believed he would be named the is sculpt of record while some anonymous sculptor would carve Dwight's design in the granite. Instead the committee chose sculpt for Lei Yixin who lives and works in China to do the whole thing.

DWIGHT: They got enamored with this Chinese guy. And they thought they were going to offend him by asking him to do something that somebody else has already done.

ROESGEN: The foundation says Lei is an award winning sculpt whose work has been on display in China's national art gallery, but that doesn't satisfy critics like Gilbert Young.

GILBERT YOUNG, KINGISOURS.COM: And they chose this Chinese artist over all the artists in this United States. That really got me upset.

ROESGEN: Young says he's gotten 800 signatures on an online petition to replace Lei Yixin with an African-American sculptor. But the memorial foundation says the criticism isn't fair.

JOHNSON: Forbid it for us, as African-Americans, to say that we're going to take the bigotry role and say only African-Americans ought to be involved in this process. This ought to be inclusive of all people if they bring something to the table.

ROESGEN: Memorial foundation president, Harry Johnson, says Dwight's disappointment is sour grapes, but Dwight says Lei's initial design is just a copy of one Lei's earlier, works.

DWIGHT: Exactly the same stance.

ROESGEN: Dwight points out this figure's arm and sleeve seem almost identical to Lei's design for the King memorial. To Dwight, it looks as if King's head is stuck on someone else's statue. In Lei's defense, the foundation says the design is not nearly finished and two African-American artists will be consulting with Lei on the project.

But, there's one more thing that bothers critics. The centerpiece for the memorial, the figure of King himself, will be made from granite that comes from China. When it's finished, critics say the base of the sculpture should say "made in China."


The actual construction is set to begin this spring. And by the way, we have tried repeatedly to reach the King family to find out what they think of this planned memorial, but they have never given us a response.

Don't miss tonight MLK PAPERS: WORDS THAT CHANGED A NATION, A rare look at Martin Luther King's personal writing. That's tonight at 8:00 Eastern, only on CNN.

HOLMES: And we'll take a turn back to politics, now. Talk about the winners, the losers, what's up next? Presidential politics this morning. A lot to talk about. The results from Nevada and South Carolina coming your way, next. And our own Dana Bash, one-on-one with Senator John McCain about the big win last night.


MCCAIN: I think we're doing very well. I'm optimistic about doing well in Florida and I'm glad we've had these wins and again 28 years whoever's won here has been the nominee.


HOLMES: We'll have much more of that interview coming your way in just a few moments. You are watching CNN, the best political team on TV.


ROESGEN: Martin Luther King, Jr. had a very clear dream for this nation. And one woman was able to fulfill her part of the dream in King's hometown. Here's Betty Nguyen with "To the Top."


MAYOR SHIRLEY FRANKLIN, ATLANTA, GEORGIA: I'm Shirley Franklin and I'm the mayor of Atlanta, Georgia.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN NEWS ANCHOR (voice over): Franklin became the first female African-American mayor of a large southern city in 2002. Dubbed the "Sewer Mayor," she chose an unsexy, but necessary job fixing Atlanta's crumbling pipes and she prevailed, despite public resistance to high cost.

FRANKLIN: Even when something is hard and unpopular, if you are committed and transparent, the everyday person will get it.

NGUYEN: But politics wasn't always Franklin's passion. She studied dance up until college, then "One Man's Dream" helped her find a path to public service.

FRANKLIN: I heard Dr. King's speech at the Marshall Center, as a college freshman. And indeed, that was an inspiration that day. I am striving everyday to be worthy of the position that I hold. He risked his life, he risked his family, success and happiness, so that I would have the chance to serve as mayor of this great city.


HOLMES: Welcome back to the CNN SUNDAY MORNING. Hello to you all, I'm T.J. Holmes.

ROESGEN: and I'm Susan Roesgen filling in for Betty Nguyen. Our top story, of course, this Sunday morning is presidential politics. In the Democratic race, Senator Hilary Clinton is the winner of the Nevada caucuses, but just barely. She edged out Senator Barack Obama 51 to 45 percent.

HOLMES: Turning to the Republicans now, Mitt Romney took 51 percent of the vote. His GOP rivals finished way behind him. He was the only Republican to really make a real play for Nevada. The rest were out there in South Carolina trying to win that primary where Senator John McCain came out on top in South Carolina, had 33 percent of the vote to Mike Huckabee's 30 percent. Meanwhile, McCain talking to Dana Bash about being a possible frontrunner now. Nobody has really emerged just yet. She joins us with more of her exclusive interview with John McCain, come up your way in just minutes.

And John McCain, second straight primary win, of course. He won in New Hampshire, as well.

ROESGEN: And the rest of the pack now is looking forward to Florida where Rudy Giuliani has been making a big push. And they're all hoping for better results in the next big contest, there. Once again, CNN's Dana Bash had the chance to talk to Senator McCain this morning, the frontrunner right now, at least. And she joins us live now from Charleston, South Carolina.

Good morning, Dana.

BASH: Good morning, Susan. He was a little bit careful not to use that word "frontrunner." But, there's no question that this victory for John McCain was all the more sweet in South Carolina because his defeat here, eight years ago was quite, quite bitter. Now, he is the candidate, the Republican candidate now who has won two very big, very competitive primary contests. So that is -- that does put him in a commanding position when it comes to the Republican field, but if you look at the vote here in South Carolina, he did very well, but he didn't perhaps do as well with Republican voters, did well with Independents but, not as well with Republican voters here in the state. So, I posed the question to him as whether or not this particular contest proved that he can actually do well among his Republican base, something that many of his Republican critics say he has yet to prove.


Senator, congratulations.

MCCAIN: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: Obviously this is a big win in a very conservative state. But, if you look at the exit polls about three in 10 of the voters described themselves as Republicans voted for you, just three in 10. So what does that tell you about your ability, still at this point, to get your fellow Republicans to vote for you?

MCCAIN: Well, it says I got more votes than anybody else, and it says that I got it from across the spectrum all over the state, a little heavier on the coast, but we expected this to be a very hotly contested race, and for the last 28 years, the candidate that has won South Carolina has been the nominee of the party. So, we're taking it all the way to the bank.

BASH: The fact, though, that still, only three in 10 of the people who voted for you, even here, were Republicans, a lot of your support seemed to still come from Independents...

MCCAIN: The information we have that we have broad-based Republican support. I don't know what your database is, but all over the state of South Carolina, we received broad-based strong support from conservatives, moderates, liberals all over the state. We're very happy with the result.

BASH: Now, you're moving on to Florida where, unlike this state, unlike your last win in New Hampshire, Independents aren't going to be part of your of the electorate. How do you, John McCain, consolidate support among Republicans?

MCCAIN: Well, you of course, pick up on the momentum that you get from these victories. The second thing is, Florida's a very patriotic state, a lot of veterans, a lot of people who care about national security. There's great concern about the economy and the excess spending that's been going on. I think I have a strong economic proposal that includes tax cuts and restraints of spending. There's a lot of environmental concerns in the state of Florida. I think I have a good record on that, and we'll be campaigning hard. We've got a very slight lead in the polls now and I'm confident we will do very well there.

BASH: Now, your friend Rudy Giuliani is already there waiting for you, and he has already been really aggressive, and essentially going after you for not supporting President Bush's tax cuts.

MCCAIN: Uh-huh. Well I appreciate his attention back some months ago when we weren't doing so well, we were the closest friends. So look, I'm running on my record. I'm a fiscal conservative. Everybody knows that. Everybody knows I was part of the Reagan revolution where we had tax cuts when frankly, Mayor Giuliani was supporting a Democrat for governor of the state of New York. So, I'm proud of my fiscal record. I'm proud of the efforts to cut spending. I'm proud to have the support of people like Phil Gramm, Jack Kemp and Marty Feldstein and the strongest fiscal conservatives in our party that are all supporting me. That's for a reason.

BASH: You mentioned that Rudy Giuliani supported a Democratic candidate. Are you suggesting that you're more of a fiscal conservative than he?

MCCAIN: I know that I'm a fiscal conservative and that's why I have the support of Jack Kemp, Phil Gramm, Marty Feldstein, a broad group of economic conservatives, as well as four former secretaries of state, by the way, which leading the nation and making it secure is the -- I still think, the No. 1 priority of the American people.

BASH: You still, even though you talk nonstop about the need to cut pork barrel spending, you still seem to have a little bit of a challenge in convincing Republicans that you are a fiscal conservative, perhaps because of your vote against the Bush tax cuts.

MCCAIN: Well look, people who examine my record, people who see me with Jack Kemp, people who see me with Phil Gramm, people see me with Senator Tom Coburn and all those strong economic and respected conservatives, that's one of the reasons why we just won this race and why we won in New Hampshire.

BASH: Now, on the economy, as soon as the president came out with his stimulus plan, you said that there has to be a cut in spending. Now, that you've had a chance to look at it, will you vote for any kind of stimulus plan that doesn't have a cut in spending to go along with it?

MCCAIN: You have to have restraint in spending, everybody knows that. Last time we did one of these things, they loaded it up with pork barrel projects, they loaded it up with billions of dollars of pork barrel projects. Americans won't stand for that, and I won't either. But I'm for middle class tax cuts, for cutting the corporate tax rate from 35 to 25, from expensing investments to R&D tax credits, things that making the tax cuts permanent. Those things can be done immediately, immediately it would have an immediate stimulus effect. So, I have not seen the details of the president's proposal and I've not seen what Congress will do. So, I can't tell you what I will do until I have a chance to see it. But, I have a proposal of my own that's very strong and is what this American economy needs.

BASH: But in theory, based on what you have said about...

MCCAIN: I have not seen it, so I don't know. I cannot tell you what I can vote for...

BASH: Would you vote for anything that would increase the deficit?

MCCAIN: Pardon me?

BASH: Would you vote for anything that would increase the deficit...

MCCAIN: If there's plans for the restraining spending, I would have to look at the proposal. I can't make a judgment, but there has to be restraint of spending. Spending out of control is why we are in the position we are in today, why the Chinese own so much of American paper, why the dollar is weak, why interest rates are as high as they are. Because we let spending get completely out of control. Phil Gramm, Jack Kemp and I were the foot soldiers in the Reagan revolution and we restrained spending. That was one of the keys to success during the Reagan years. BASH: When you came here to South Carolina, you seemed to change the tone of your talk about the economy. In Michigan, you talked about the fact that jobs aren't coming back. Here you're more optimistic. Did you learn perhaps there's such a thing as too much straight talk?

MCCAIN: Well, actually, I didn't change and I said there was the old jobs not coming back. People in South Carolina know that the textile mills aren't coming back, but they've got a government and a governor and a legislature that is business friendly. Businesses are coming here. The South Carolina economy is on the rise. And that's the kind of government that matters. And it's a fiscally responsible government. But, I didn't change any. I doubt if I will.

BASH: Are you the frontrunner now?

MCCAIN: I think we're doing very well. I'm optimistic about doing well in Florida, and I'm glad we've had these wins and again, 28 years, whoever's won here has been the nominee.


BASH: Now, there you heard Senator McCain being very careful not to call himself the frontrunner, probably for a lot of the reasons, but maybe not the least of which is that Senator McCain seems to do well as the insurgent candidate. He was somebody who seemed to be the establishment Republican candidate way back about a year ago, and he didn't do that well, but he really came back by pounding away in the state of New Hampshire as somebody who was kind of a candidate running on a shoestring. So, now that he is doing better, the question is whether or not he can claim that mantle of somebody who is part of the Republican establishment, probably a bit of an uncomfortable place, but a happy place, for McCain.

I actually asked him about that as we were getting up, Susan and T.J., and he said, you know, the fact that I'm winning obviously is a very, very good thing because it means he's probably going to get more money, which he needs desperately, more endorsements. So, it will be interesting to see that carries on to see if he gets what everybody talks about, which is a bounce that a lot, most of these Republican candidates have not gotten out of their wins so far in various contest states.

ROESGEN: OK, the insurgent candidate is the resurgent candidate today.

HOLMES: Yes he is.

ROESGEN: Thanks, Dana. Now, staying in South Carolina, the Democrats are expected to spend the week there talking to voters ahead of their primary next Saturday.

HOLMES: And they'll be courting a large number of black voters there. About half of South Carolina's Democratic voters are black. And there's an interesting dynamic among the generations, as well CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is with us this morning from Charleston, South Carolina.

Good morning to you again, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, good morning, T.J. Well, it's interesting because the polls were actually showing that there was generational split. We found younger voters going for Barack Obama, older voters going for Hilary Clinton, but we've been here for some time, we've been at the Bible study, the pizza parlor, the local colleges and asking a lot of people whether or not that really is true, if it pans out. And it's a little bit more complicated.


(voice over): In South Carolina, where nearly half of the Democratic voters are African-American, there's a fierce fight for their support. Polls taken last month suggest there's also a generational divide. Older black voters going for Hilary Clinton, younger voters backing Barack Obama. We went to see for ourselves. And found 17-year-old Joseph Davis squarely in Obama's camp.

JOSEPH DAVIS, OBAMA SUPPORTER: He had opportunities and chances and sometimes we blew it, but I feel that Barack Obama is going to set a trend for more (INAUDIBLE) maybe myself or one of my family members may one day be in the same position...

MALVEAUX: Grandmother Sheryl Mack backs Senator Clinton.

SHERYL MACK, CLINTON SUPPORTER: I see her as my sister and also as a peer, but I also think that she has a broad appeal.

MALVEAUX: Hilary Clinton's appeal, many older African-Americans tell us, comes from their appreciation of her work in the Civil Rights movement and her husband, President Bill Clinton's policies supporting the black community.

SAMUEL ROBINSON, AWENDAW, SC TOWN COUNCIL: It is true on the one hand because the older people remember. As the Jewish people say, we never forget.

MALVEAUX: Forgetting what the Clintons did some say is like betraying an old friend.

DR KATIE CATALON, CLINTON SUPPORTER: I need to tell them they need to go back 12 years ago to see what that administration did and because of that administration, that is why they're in colleges and universities today.

MALVEAUX: But some young people, like Joseph, see their elders' message as too cautious.

DAVIS: We only know what is either being told to us, we wasn't there a long time ago. So, what the older generation tells us as young kids is that the black do this -- we don't have to pay attention to what our grandmothers or grandfathers say. We believe that it can happen. MALVEAUX: And the more people we talk to, the more we discovered older voters also believe it can happen, an African-American could be elected president.

The church elders at Saint James Presbyterian all talked about their deep affection for Clinton, but are supporting Obama.

CHARLOTTE DUNN, OBAMA SUPPORTER: Some of the struggles that we as black women face, I don't believe she can speak to them.

CAROL SMALLS, OBAMA SUPPORTER: Like these ladies say, a change. Hillary's been in the White House.

MALVEAUX: some see an Obama win as a Civil Rights victory after years of personal struggle.

ROBINSON: It's a little more than Obama at this point. It's becoming bigger than him.

MALVEAUX (on camera): Is that a good thing?

ROBINSON: It's a very good thing.


MALVEAUX: T.J., it's a complicated thing for many voters who I spoke with who say that they are really struggling with this decision, competing loyalties between Barack Obama or Hilary Clinton. There are others, of course, who also supporting John Edwards. You really can't predict how this is going to go. We saw in Iowa, New Hampshire, you really don't know which way it's going to go, but a lot of people are saying at least give Obama a chance - T.J.

HOLMES: All right, you're right. There's a conflict as you talk to folks out there. They feel a responsibility almost, black people to support Obama just because, hey, a black man has a chance to be the first black president. So, it'll be interesting moving along. But Suzanne, we appreciate you this morning, kind ma'am.

And please folks, Anderson Cooper 369, a special look at race and politics in the 2008 presidential race. You can tune in tomorrow after the Congressional Black caucus debate right here on CNN, your home for politics.

ROESGEN: And coming up this afternoon, before the football game, stay tuned for the CNN BALLOT BOWL. You'll hear the contenders talking about the issues in their own words. That's today, 1:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN your home for politics.

And you know, the political season is really just beginning.

HOLMES: Seems like it's been going on for a long time.

ROESGEN: It's just getting started.

HOLMES: Yeah, the next stop, Super Duper Tuesday, got a few primaries in between. But, what can we expect, really, in the next couple of weeks? National Public Radio's Ken Rudin is going to join us next. There he is, looking fine this morning. Tie's a little crooked. We'll straighten it out for you before we get in the air, next segment. Ken, we'll see you here in a second, buddy.



HOLMES: Well, Republican Duncan Hunter, he's dropped out of the presidential race, so is anybody close to following Duncan out the door following the Nevada and South Carolina contests? National Public Radio's Ken Rudin, he's with us now from Washington.

Good morning to you, sir. Who else is going to drop out after what just happened in Nevada and South Carolina. Who else, tell me, give me some names.

RUDIN: Well, not John McCain and not Mitt Romney, even though he finished fourth in South Carolina, he still has tons of money, doing well in Florida and has a lot of money to compete in the Super Tuesday primaries on February 5.

Now, a lot of people are talking about a bad day for John Edwards yesterday in Nevada. One poll had him in a three-way tie for the lead and he wound up with four percent. Next Saturday in South Carolina, of course, and that's the only state he won in 2004, that's where he's from. But, obviously, he has to do some kind of a showing there. But it's hard to finish higher than second, even higher than third given the fact that Obama and Hilary Clinton both have so much money and so much momentum.

HOLMES: Well, what about Thompson and even though Huckabee won Iowa and came in a pretty good second there in South Carolina, because he couldn't win as the son of the South in the South, I heard some people say last night, some of those pundits, he's done. So, what about those two, Thompson and Huckabee?

RUDIN: Well, Fred Thompson has done no better than forth anywhere else, he finished third in South Carolina, that was a state he was mostly concentrating on. He really doesn't have -- you know, we always thought he would have so much potential when he got in the race, but he got in the race very late in September when everybody else had been running for so long. It's hard to see where Fred Thompson goes from this. If you listen to his remarks yesterday, it sounded like it's the end of his campaign was pretty close.

HOLMES: yeah, it didn't sound good.

RUDIN: Huckabee is staying in. There's no reason why he shouldn't stay in. Obviously, perhaps if Fred Thompson weren't in the race yesterday, he could have won in South Carolina given the fact that maybe they split the conservative vote.

HOLMES: All right, we'll move to the Democrats and the caucus in Nevada. Who won? RUDIN: Well, if you're talking about votes, it was Hilary Clinton. If you're talking about delegates, it was Barack Obama. Get out your calculator, T.J., because whether they have a strange allocation of delegates formula in Nevada that they give a lot of extra weight to the rural areas of the state. Barack Obama did far better in the rural areas and that's why he got more delegates than Hilary Clinton. You know, the old expression "whatever happens in the rural parts of Nevada stays in the rural parts of Nevada."

HOLMES: But, there was some more confusion here man, because the delegates there in Nevada, according to state rules, are not bound to vote a certain way once they get to the state convention and then to the national convention. So, there was a suggestion from a sound bite, a quote from the head of the Nevada Democratic Party, that, hey, once the delegates get to this convention, then I'm sure they will reflect what the popular vote was. So, is it possible that the people could change their minds, the delegates might actually change their minds once they move on to convention time?

RUDIN: Well, that's always true. I mean, you know, history of early caucuses, they're the first step. The precinct caucuses are the first step, then they go to county conventions and then state conventions and by the time they get to the national convention, who knows, there may not be a fight for the national convention at all.

HOLMES: I'll be danged. You know, I appreciate you. You did a good job in explaining that in the time that we had. It is awfully confusing, but you did a good job with it. Ken Rudin, that's why we're having you on. We appreciate you this morning.

RUDIN: And my tie is straight.

HOLMES: And the tie is excellent. Hey, I just want you to look good. I didn't have to say it on the air, I could is sent you a quick e-mail and let you know, but...

RUDIN: It's a clip-on, so...

HOLMES: It's not, folks. Ken, we appreciate you this morning.

RUDIN: Thanks, T.J.

ROESGEN: OK, well picture this, a Florida woman walks into her home and it's being burglarized. What would do if that were you, if you came in and saw the burglar? Listen to the woman's husband.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, anyone who knows Margo knows -- is not surprised that this is what her reaction would be.


HOLMES: Wow. You picked on the wrong woman. You got to hear this story, folks.


HOLMES: All right. Now it's that time for us to check if with Howard Kurtz in Washington to see what's ahead on CNN's RELIABLE SOURCES.

Good morning, sir.

HOWARD KURTZ, RELIABLE SOURCES: Good morning, T.J. Coming up, John McCain's South Carolina victory: were the reporters running around on his bus rooting for what one calls poetic justice after his defeat in the state eight years ago?

Mitt Romney and Bill Clinton blow up at reporters on the trail. Is the press getting out of line or are journalists just trying to hold these campaigns accountable?

Plus a magazine editor is fired for putting a picture of a noose on a cover story about a Tiger Woods controversy. Did he get a raw deal? That and more ahead on RELIABLE SOURCES.

HOLMES: Yeah, certainly want to tune in and hear what that story is about. Howard Kurtz, we'll see you at the top of the hour, sir. Thank you.

ROESGEN: And don't mess with a woman named Margo. This woman arrived at her home in Lighthouse Point, Florida, to find a burglar inside and too bad for him because she has a black belt in martial arts. Margo Foster chased the burglar into the backyard, and that's when it got serious.


MARGO FOSTER, CAUGHT BURGLAR: Yeah, he was afraid. I jerked him off of the fence really hard and threw him down on the ground and landed on top of him, and tried to punch him a couple of times and he was wiggling away from me. I was telling he had my backpack with my things in it. So, I ripped his shirt off of him trying to get the backpack off.


HOLMES: The suspect did finally manage to get away. You see, but his day got worse. She also happens to be a marathon runner. So, after seven blocks, she caught up to him and held him until police arrived. Oh, my goodness. Do we not have a picture of this guy. I would love to plaster that picture.


HOLMES: Ah, there he is.

ROESGEN: Court appearance.

HOLMES: Yes, sir.

ROESGEN: Looking ashamed. HOLMES: I try tried to rob a lady who beat me down and then chased me through the neighborhood. That's a bad day. Boy, we got a look at the top stories next, including the results of the Nevada and South Carolina contests, folks.


ROESGEN: Coming up next on RELIABLE SOURCES, the magazine cover that got the editor of a magazine fired.

HOLMES: Also, politicians getting mad at the media -- at us? At the media? Mitt Romney, Bill Clinton versus the press.

ROESGEN: And then at 11:00 a.m. Eastern, Wolf Blitzer will be talking to presidential candidate John Edwards.

HOLMES: But, first we got a check of the morning's top developments for you.