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CNN Sunday Morning
Three in Terror Probe Charged With Falsifying Statements; Obama Rolling Into Week of High Diplomatic Stakes; Family Tries To Survive Only on Mom's Severance, Unemployment; Despite Outcry, Baucus Plan Emerges as Front-Runner in Health Debate; Interview With John Boehner
Aired September 20, 2009 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: And from the CNN Center in Atlanta, Georgia, this is CNN SUNDAY MORNING for this September 20. Hello to you all. I'm T.J. Holmes.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. Hello. I'm Betty Nguyen. It's 6 a.m. right here in Atlanta; 4 a.m. in Denver, Colorado, where we do begin our day.
Let's get you the latest from there. In fact, it is breaking news out of Denver and New York. An alleged terror plot - look at this video. The FBI last night arrested two men in the Denver suburb of Aurora and another in New York. Now, these arrests do stem from an alleged plan to set off bombs in the U.S.
HOLMES: Yes, this is a case we've been following closely all week. And our homeland-security correspondent Jeanne Meserve certainly has been following this closely.
She is with us in Denver now. Jeanne, help us here. They've been following this case - a terrorism investigation. Three arrested, but not necessarily on terrorism charges.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Right, the three arrested - two are in Denver, one is in New York. The two in Denver are Najibullah Zazi, the man who we've been following for the last week or so in the - the heart of this investigation; his father, Mohammed Zazi; and in New York, a man named Ahmad Afzali. He is an imam and also the operator of a Muslim burial service in Queens.
Now, they are all charged with knowing and willfully lying to the FBI during a terror investigation. Zazi and his attorney have denied assertions by government officials that he has admitted ties to al- Qaeda.
But when you read through these indictments, this is what you learn - here are the allegations by the government: one is that Najibullah Zazi admitted going to a training camp in Pakistan and getting training in weapons and explosives. The indictment also alleges that on his computer, a JPEG image was found of nine pages of handwritten notes, all about explosives, formulations, instructions on manufacturing them and also explosive detonators and fusing systems.
It also says that during his interviews, Zazi denied ever writing those pages or ever seeing them. In addition, according to the indictment, during searches in Queens, they found a scale and some batteries, all of those with Zazi's fingerprints on them.
But the charges at this point don't have to do with those specifics. What they do with the fact is that this man in New York, Afzali, allegedly tipped off Najibullah Zazi and his father that the authorities were looking for them.
It does seem apparent when you read this that there's a possibility of future charges and more arrests in this case. It does say the investigation is ongoing, although again, it does say that the targets - possible targets in this alleged plot are unknown.
Back to you.
HOLMES: All right. Jeanne Meserve, thank you so much. We're going to be getting to you again. Kind of a long write-up, that indictment. Just a lot of a details, a lot of information we did not know that still at this point could be waiting on some more charges, because it was kind of a - a surprise there to hear about this big terror investigation. Three arrests, but not on terror charges.
NGUYEN: Right, on false statements, but nothing related to the terrorism plot. So we're going to get a lot more on that in the days to come, no doubt.
HOLMES: Yes, and Jeanne Meserve on that story for us.
Jim Spellman has been following the case from Denver as well.
NGUYEN: Yes, Jim was there last night when federal agents arrived and then arrested the father and the son.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE OF JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was just about 9:30 local time here in Aurora, Colorado, when the black SUVs pulled in, the FBI agents went up the steps to his apartment, seemed to take him away without any incident. Certainly no violence, not even a raised voice.
The arrest comes after three days of voluntary questioning by Zazi and his attorney. They were scheduled to have a fourth day of questioning. For reasons unknown to us, they canceled that. All day Zazi stayed here in the apartment and we heard nothing from the FBI and very little even from his attorney.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: We will talk with CNN national-security analyst Peter Bergen about the arrest and the alleged plot a little bit later this hour. You don't want to miss that.
But in the meantime, President Obama spending the bulk of this week in New York. First on his agenda tomorrow, an economic address to students at Hudson Valley Community College in Troy. Later, he does an interview with David Letterman.
The president's focus then turns global as he heads to the U.N. on Tuesday. He speaks at a climate-change summit, and then meets with the president of China. And a little bit later, he delivers a speech at the Clinton Global Initiative.
Now, on Wednesday, there's a main event: President Obama's first speech to the 192-member General Assembly. That is followed by a meeting with Russia's president.
Now, on Thursday, President Obama discusses nuclear non- proliferation with Security Council leaders. And he later travels to Pittsburgh for the G-20 Summit. Now, the plenary session takes place on Friday.
So it is a very busy week for the president.
HOLMES: And a busy day for the president. He's going to be five places at once...
NGUYEN: Right.
HOLMES: ...today, essentially, doing a bit of a media blitz.
NGUYEN: It's all on tape though.
HOLMES: All on tape, yes. He's appearing on...
NGUYEN: Unless he's got a hologram somewhere.
HOLMES: You know, they can do that now.
NGUYEN: We may make that happen.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: He's on just about every Sunday talk show today, including, of course, "STATE OF THE UNION" with our John King.
NGUYEN: Oh, absolutely. And John taped the interview and asked the president if racism is playing a role in some of the criticism that is being leveled against him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: In recent weeks, people have raised some pretty serious questions. The big rally in town, signs talking about afrosocialism. Swastikas with your name and your picture on them. "You lie!" shouted at you during a nationally televised address. And former President Carter says he sees racism in some of this.
Do you?
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: You know, as I've said in the past, you know, are there people out there who don't like me because of race? I'm sure they are. That's not the overriding issue here. I think there are people who are anti-government. I think there are - there's been a longstanding debate in this country that is usually that much more fierce during times of transition, or when presidents are trying to bring about big changes. I mean, the things that were said about FDR are pretty similar to the things that were said about me, that he was a communist, he was a socialist. Things that were said about Ronald Reagan when he was trying to reverse some of the New Deal programs, you know, were - were pretty vicious as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: And you can watch that interview in its entirety a little bit later this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION" with John King. That is at 9 Eastern, 6 Pacific, right here on CNN.
HOLMES: And we have been talking about this for it seems like a full week now.
NGUYEN: We've actually (ph) been feeling it for a full week.
HOLMES: Yes, of constant rain.
Karen Maginnis with us again today.
Hello, and let's take a look at the map.
(WEATHER REPORT)
NGUYEN: All right. Do want to get you some more on that breaking news that we've been talking about this morning. Three men arrested right here in the U.S. in connection with al-Qaeda.
HOLMES: Also, we'll be talking about the battle over health care this morning as well. The Democratic plan that seemed to be the front- runner is the Baucus plan. But what do Republicans have to say about it?
I talked to Minority John Boehner. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Here's a question for you: Could you support your family for a whole year on three months of severance pay? Well, this family you see right there, thinks they can, and we're going to show you how they plan to do it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, the economic bigwigs say there are some powerful and hopeful signs of a recovery. But tell that to the millions of Americans still trying to make ends meet.
Here's CNN Allan Chernoff in our "Money & Main St." report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ALLAN CHERNOFF CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Karin and Chris Kubacki jogging home from an errand instead of driving. It's one of many cost-saving steps the Kubackis are taking since Karin, the family breadwinner, was laid off in July from her software job at Accenture.
CHRIS KUBACKI, KARIN KUBACKI'S HUSBAND: At first, it's, you know, instant panic, Oh my gosh, we're going to lose the house tomorrow, we're going to be living on the street in a cardboard box.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This could be your breakfast.
CHERNOFF: Karin decided to turn her loss into an opportunity to spend more time with the family while taking time to find another job she'd love.
So the Kubackis plan to stretch Karin's unemployment checks and her 13-week severance to last a full year, determined not to dig into savings.
KARIN KUBACKI, FACING LIFE WITHOUT A JOB: How do you do it? I have the rules posted, actually, at my desk.
CHERNOFF: Rules like, "Live within your means," which the Kubackis say they've always done. They're also do-it-yourselfers. Chris, a stay-at-home dad who is a woodworker, builds toys for his son, Max.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My dad made it. That's the best.
CHERNOFF: For the first time, Karin set up a budget. To stick to it, the family shops only for absolute necessities. The library is now a frequent stop, as are other free community resources.
K. KUBACKI: We've had more fun since I lost my job than ever.
CHERNOFF: Having adopted a frugal lifestyle, the Kubackis say they now truly appreciate small luxuries.
K. KUBACKI: And if you pick just a couple of luxuries like Hershey bars, you really enjoy them.
CHERNOFF: Even as they stretch, the Kubackis still donate 10 percent of her Karin's unemployment check to their church. Living only a few doors away from the neighborhood food pantry, the Kubackis are often reminded of their blessings.
K. KUBACKI: So I don't have a job right now. We've got a house, we've got food. We have nothing to complain about.
CHERNOFF: Allan Chernoff, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: And you can catch a new "Money & Main St." segment this Thursday morning on "AMERICAN MORNING," starting at 6 a.m. Eastern. HOLMES: So which health-care option is best for you? Josh Levs is checking it out for us.
Good morning to you, Josh.
JOSH LEVS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hey, good morning to you guys.
We're talking about the Baucus plan. Will it make it through, and what does it say on the most controversial issues? We have a simple breakdown coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
NGUYEN: Need something to wake us up this morning. It is early.
And let's talk about something serious. This will get you going: the battle over health care. Well, it's entered a new stage with the introduction of a plan for Senator - or from Senator Max Baucus, who's the chairman of the Finance Committee.
HOLMES: Yes, it's facing criticism from many Republicans, but also a good handful of Democrats. So what does it say? How will it affect you?
Josh Levs looking at it for us. Good morning, Josh.
LEVS: Good morning to you guys.
Yes, even with all of these people complaining about it - like you said, a lot of Republicans, some Democrats. What we are seeing here is a new blueprint, in a sense, for what at least one lawmaker and some of his supporters hope could ultimately pass.
You can see the whole thing right here at CNN.com/healthcare. You can actually read the entire PDF if you want to, 223 pages.
But what we have here is a breakdown for you, a few points along the way. Let's just go straight to this first one. I want everyone to see the big picture, which is the cost in this graphic here.
Now, this is interesting. The - he is saying that it would cost $856 billion over 10 years if we were to establish mandatory coverage by 2013. But come back to me at the - for a second at the screen, because the Congressional Budget Office has now looked at this. They're saying it would cost less than that; they're saying $774 billion. So we actually are hearing a slightly smaller figure from CBO than we are from Max Baucus himself, who put it out there.
Let's go back to a few key points here. One of the big controversial ones that is leading some of the liberal Democrats away is that there would be no public plan, and instead would create these non-profit cooperatives. And we explain to you how that would work at CNN.com/healthcare. The next one's interesting, about pre-existing conditions. He does call - and this is one place where a lot of Democrats and Republicans agree - for new protections for coverage of pre-existing conditions.
And finally, I want to point to two really controversial issues, probably the two most controversial. This one's about abortion. It says that federal funds could be used to pay for abortions only in these cases on your screen: rape, incest or if the life of the mother is in danger. So it keeps the current law on abortion.
It also says that qualified health plans that take part could actually abortions in other situations. And that's something some people have raised problems with.
And finally, let's go to illegal immigrants, which is probably the biggest question we get asked here in the "NEWSROOM" a lot, about all of the latest plans. And we have this one for you: It says that illegal immigrants would not be able to buy insurance under these exchanges that are established, but they could for their kids if their kids are here legally.
And you can see the last point there: requires verification of personal data. And I'll tell you - you know, Betty and T.J., you guys know this, even though it says that you have to verify that you're here in the country legally, one of the major questions a lot of people raise is, is that enough? Would it be strict enough? Would it be tough enough?
And it would do very little - most of these, really, would do very little - to deal with the current problem, a lot of illegal immigrants showing up at emergency rooms all over the country, and what that does to our health-care system.
NGUYEN: And for some people, that is a big rub, too.
LEVS: That's a big problem for a lot of people.
NGUYEN: Yes.
LEVS: You do hear that. So more - and that's true for all of these plans. No one seems to have a solution for that.
NGUYEN: Yes.
LEVS: More details, CNN.com/healthcare.
NGUYEN: All right. Thank you, Josh.
LEVS: Thanks, guys.
HOLMES: Well, conservatives wrapping up their fourth annual Values Voter summit in Washington.
Well, Republican candidates for the 2012 elections headlined the three-day event -- some people that are potential candidates, looking ahead here Hundreds of Christian conservative activists rallied with other top politicians against Obama-administration policies, including some of the health-care reform ideas.
I spoke to the Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner about that, and also about Senator Max Baucus' plan. This was on our show yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OHIO), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: But when you begin to look at their -- the co-ops in the Baucus bill that are government-sponsored, government-supported, I - I think the infrastructure that's being created in the Baucus bill is very similar to the infrastructure, government infrastructure that's created in these other bills.
And so it's - it's not a full government option, but it's a big step toward one.
HOLMES: As you -- you essentially would say, these co-ops we're talking about here and these exchanges essentially do the same thing as a public option, would you and the Republicans not go along with the co-op, as well?
BOEHNER: Well, I -- it's pretty clear when you have no Republicans in the House or Senate who are being supportive of these bills, it's because they take this giant step toward a big government- run health-care system.
Listen, we have problems in our current health-care system. But we can address the problems within our current system, not throw the whole current system away in the favor of this government-run plan.
HOLMES: Well, I guess the folks -- a lot of folks are asking and the president has said - and it - it was kind of a -- a scene made there at his speech in the joint session of Congress, when he was saying, 'If you have other ideas, I want to see them.' And a lot of - a lot of folks held up some paper, saying, 'Here are our plans.'
But how big of a - I - I guess an uphill climb is it for you when you have the president, who can go onto five network morning shows tomorrow, Sunday morning talk shows, and get his message out, and how difficult is it for you and the Republicans to say, 'Hey, here is our bill to counter?' Do you have a bill to go out there and promote right now, sir?
BOEHNER: No, there are a lot of what we think are really good, better solutions to this health-care problem. And you can find them at healthcare.gop.gov. There are a number of proposals and ideas that are outlined there from Republican members.
But it is difficult competing with the president. He's got a much bigger soapbox than we have. But the American people have pretty much decided they don't want to go in the direction that he's asking them to. And I -- I think that he can talk as much as he wants, but it seems like, the more he talks about it and the more people find out about it, the less support there is...
HOLMES: All right.
BOEHNER: ...for his proposal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: And again, for those who would like to check it out, you - you heard him say it in there, but a lot of people are worried about, or - or wondering about the Republican plan. He says you can find it at healthcare.gop.gov.
And for more of the interview with Representative Boehner, you can go to our blog at CNN.com/TJ. Also, CNN.com/Betty.
NGUYEN: You know, we talked a lot about the president hitting five networks today. He's going to be on it and pushing health-care reform among other issues as well. And we're getting some response from you, because the question is: Good idea or just overexposure?
Let me take you to my Facebook page, first of all. And John Reber says, "overexposure. I see his lips moving, but the same old talking points are coming out."
And let's go over to Twitter for just a second. Djkq says, "Overexposure for sure. The president needs to chill. In football, recruiting the head coach closes the deal. Can't do both well."
And just very quickly, mkxlb says, "Saying 'too much Obama' is like saying 'too much chocolate cake.' You can't get enough of a good thing."
All right.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: OK.
NGUYEN: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: Well, we heard - hear the president called a lot of things. Now, chocolate cake this morning, apparently.
We are on Twitter, on Facebook. Our e-mail, you see it there as well. You can find us on the blog. By all means, keep those coming to us.
But first, we want to give you some more of our top stories today.
And listen to this: A legally insane killer on the loose in Washington state. You see a picture of him there. His name is Philip Paul. Police say he escaped during a mental-hospital field trip to a county fair.
NGUYEN: How does that happen?
HOLMES: Who knew this is allowed?
Now, investigators in Spokane have been searching for him since Thursday now. The state, of course, investigating the hospital policy that allows these patients to take trips. Legally insane - admitted to killing someone. He was at this county fair with several of them - I believe 30-plus of these mental patients...
NGUYEN: Right.
HOLMES: ...with 11 people keeping an eye on them. He packed a backpack for this trip, so they think it's now a - it was a planned escape. But it sounds just unfathomable that this would be allowed.
NGUYEN: It does. It sounds unreal that, one, they would take them to a country fair...
HOLMES: A county fair.
NGUYEN: ...where a whole lot of people are, for a field trip. I mean, how does that happen and who authorized that? And then to have only 11 people looking after some 30-plus plus...
HOLMES: Thirty-plus (ph).
NGUYEN: ...people carrying bags. Were those bags checked before you left? And now he's on the loose and, you know, it's - it's - yes, it's unfathomable that this would even happen.
HOLMES: But they say these are part of their policy, they take them out on these trips. Maybe it's part of some rehabilitation they do. But to - just to think that a - an insane killer would be allowed to just walk around folks like this.
NGUYEN: But I think yesterday we even noted that not even the local authorities or the people at the fair knew...
HOLMES: Knew it was coming.
NGUYEN: ...that they were going to be there, for security purposes. You think they would have alerted somebody just in case something like that his happened. Well, it's happened. And we'll continue following that for you.
HOLMES: Hmm.
NGUYEN: All right. More than three million does of the H1N1 vaccine should be ready at the beginning of next month. That is according to a health official at the Centers for Disease Control.
Now, the first vaccine will be in the form of a nasal spray. That version is only recommended for people without underlying medical conditions. We're also told that some H1N1 shots may be available early next month, but it's still unclear how many.
HOLMES: All right. President Obama, among all the things he has to do these days, also looking to play peacemaker. The White House says the president will meet Tuesday with Israeli President Benjamin Netanyahu and also the Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.
The three-way meeting, set to take place in New York while all three are there at the United Nations General Assembly.
We'll also have more on our breaking story we've been following: Three men arrested here in the U.S. in a supposed terror plot.
NGUYEN: Right. Plus, President Obama has a lot of handshaking to do this week, meeting with several prime ministers and presidents. So where does health care fit into all of this?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, hello again and welcome back to this CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I am T.J. Holmes.
NGUYEN: Yes, good morning, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen.
HOLMES: Going to bring it back to our breaking story we've been following out of New York as well as out of Colorado: an alleged terror plot involving men with ties to Afghanistan, living here in the U.S.
Federal agents overnight arrested a father and a son in a Denver suburb, and arrested another man in New York.
NGUYEN: Yes, CNN homeland-security correspondent Jeanne Meserve does take a closer look at where this investigation is leading.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smoke and debris and fire on the ground.
MESERVE (voice-over): It was a truck bomb that devastated the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995, killing 165 people. And CNN has learned that concerns about a truck bomb figure into the current investigation in the alleged New York/Denver terror plot.
This U-Haul outlet in Queens, New York, has been a focus for law enforcement. According to a former counter-terrorism official, familiar with the investigation, a group of Afghanistan men tried to rent a truck here on September 9th, just two days before the 9/11 anniversary. It was the same day Najibullah Zazi, the man at the center of the investigation, was driving to New York from Denver, carrying, according to sources, video of Grand Central Station and instructions on bomb making.
According to the source, the men showed licenses from Ohio and Florida and U-Haul employees have identified two of them from FBI photographs. One, Naiz Khan, let Zazi stay in his apartment while he was in New York. The apartment has been searched and Kahn questioned, but Saturday Khan denied having anything to do with an attempted truck rental or terrorism.
NAIZ KHAN, ACQUAINTANCE OF TERROR SUSPECT: I am not involved in this and the story comes -- every story, not true, such as me having the U-Haul story. I've never been to there.
MESERVE: The source says the other man, identified by U-Haul employees, owned this Muslim burial service, which has also been searched. His name, Ahmad Afzali. He has also denied involvement, according to the source.
At the FBI offices in downtown Denver scheduled talks between Zazi and the FBI were canceled on Saturday, as Zazi and his attorney contested assertions made by government officials to the media, including CNN, that Zazi has admitted ties to Al Qaeda.
Quote, "It's not true. I have nothing to hide," Zazi reportedly said to "The Denver Post"
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: And Zazi spoke with his lawyers yesterday, but another meeting with the FBI has not been scheduled as of yet.
HOLMES: And according to the Attorney General Eric Holder the investigation stretches to other cities, as well. We'll be talking to CNN National Security Analyst Peter Bergen about he arrests and the alleged plot, coming up later in this hour.
Our affiliates in Colorado, also are on top of this breaking story. They were on the scene when authorities raided Najibullah Zazi's home in the Denver suburb. You see some of their pictures here. We told you earlier, he was arrested and charged last night, along with his father. We'll have more on this breaking story, later, in our newscast.
NGUYEN: Well, let's get you the latest on the weather outside. The rain, it just keeps coming down. Meteorologist Karen Maginnis joins us now, for Reynolds, who is off today. I guess he's taking a break from the rain, at least, trying to.
(WEATHER REPORT)
NGUYEN: We want to take a look at some of our top stories for you this morning. Police, they, are investigating whether accused kidnappers Phillip and Nancy Garrido are linked to any other missing person's cases. And they are getting help from archaeologists, of all people. Yes, they are using ground penetrating radar to look for human remains in the Garridos' backyard and a neighbor's backyard. Investigators are testing two bones, found recently, to see if they are animal or human remains. The Garridos do remain in jail awaiting trial in connection with the kidnapping of Jaycee Dugard 18 years ago.
HOLMES: And some San Diego homeowners breathing a little easier this morning after firefighters gained control of a nearby brush fire. Officials say the 14-acre blaze was set by someone burning debris without a permit. Two firefighters suffered heat-related injuries battling that fire.
NGUYEN: I want to get back to the latest on our breaking news story. Three arrests, last night, we have a father and a son arrested in Aurora, Colorado, just outside of Denver, and also a man in Queens, New York. They are not charged with a terrorism plot, but they are charged with making false statements.
Meanwhile, though, they have been investigated as part of an alleged U.S. bomb plot. And there's some talk that maybe Al Qaeda is involved. Again, there's a lot of information that we're still trying to sort through. But three arrests have been made.
HOLMES: The men are all expected -- two of them, the father and son -- expected to make an appearance in court on Monday, tomorrow, in Denver. The other man is expected to make his appearance in court in New York. But again, this was a terror investigation that was going on, but the men, at this point, not charged with any terrorism charges. Just for making false claims to federal authorities. Say, just, but that is still a serious charge, but still not a terror charge just yet.
We'll continue to follow this story. Our reporters are on it for us. We'll continue to follow that. And our cameras, as you can see here, we're there. You can see some of those pictures when the FBI moved in to make those arrests. Again, this is a major terrorism probe, but no terrorism charges yet.
NGUYEN: And we were hearing from the FBI yesterday that it is the real deal.
HOLMES: That's what they called it.
NGUYEN: It will be interesting to find out what they discover in that investigation.
Also still shaking our heads over this: A poll, in Oklahoma, finds most high school students cannot name the first U.S. President. So, find out why our education contributor isn't so surprised about that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Remember that song, "A Head of the Class"?
HOLMES: Who is Scooter Smith?
NGUYEN: I have no idea. I don't think I've ever heard that, ever, in life before. But that's OK. So, who is the head of the class? Maybe not these kids. We're going to tell you about a poll. But before we do, does your child know the name of the first U.S. president?
HOLMES: Of course. NGUYEN: Well, that was one --yeah?
HOLMES: Of course. Everybody knows.
NGUYEN: That was one of the questions on a quiz - not everybody - to 1,000 public high school students in Oklahoma, and most of them failed.
HOLMES: Not just failed, we're talking like the overwhelming majority could not answer that question correctly.
NGUYEN: Yes.
HOLMES: Like 70 plus percent. Now all these questions that these kids were asked, in this survey, were from the U.S. Citizenship Test. This is what everybody has to take when they want to become a citizen of this country. Our Education Contributor Steve Perry, he told us that the system is the one that is setting students up for this kind of failure.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR: In the United States, our kids are lagging behind the rest of the world. In fact, countries such as Iceland are smoking us in the classroom; when you look at the fact that among the most industrialized nations that America is near last, again, in terms of the high school graduation rate. We look at the current economic situation with a sense of surprise, but there should be no surprise when we look at the performance of our children in the classroom. They are behind other industrialized nations.
HOLMES: OK, to say behind is one thing, Steve. I'll put this graphic up and let some of the folks at home see this; a few of the questions, from this particular quiz. The first president, only 23 percent got that right. How many justices on the Supreme Court, only 10 percent. Who wrote the Declaration of Independence? 14 percent. We elect U.S. Senators for how many years? 11 percent.
Now, it's one thing to say we're lagging behind, but to not know some of this basic stuff, that's sounds -- just impossible.
PERRY: We've been pouring good money over bad into some of the worst-performing school systems in the country. Many of our large cities, in fact, have some of the lowest performing school systems. And therefore, school children, the only people benefiting at this point for many of America's public schools are the public school employees, the teachers, the principals, and the like. These schools are designed to fail. We're spending, in some cases, $100 million, to build one building that is obsolete before the last brick is laid.
We have to, at some point, begin to have an honest conversation about school reform. When schools fail, we fail. When the unemployment rate approaches 10 percent, we see there's a national crisis. But when only 10 percent of the children in some of America's high schools are performing at goal we see it as an achievement gap. HOLMES: But that's failure, you're talking about, but - I mean, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a huge question, here, but where is the failure? You talk about a building being built and it's outdated by the time the last brick is there. Are we just talking about they don't have the right resources, they don't have the right teachers, they don't have the right support?
PERRY: The resources - it's not the resources. We spend a considerable amount of money. In some cities we spend as much as 85 percent of our local tax dollars go to public schools. So, it's not the resources. It's the fact that we have public teachers unions, who in fact, are running the schools so they benefit the teachers and not the children. We have administrators who -
HOLMES: That's a big statement there, Steve. You know a lot of, the teachers' unions and teachers' groups, there are some powerful folks. That's a big statement there that a lot of people - it's not going to sit well with a lot of folks.
PERRY: Well, good. I hope it doesn't sit well. Because you know what doesn't sit well with me? Failed children. When children don't believe in themselves because they believe that the education that they are not receiving is in fact undermining their very sense of self. Our children are failing because we're not teaching them. We're not teaching our children to perform successfully in this economy and as a result the economy is suffering.
HOLMES: And last thing here, we certainly we don't mean to pick on folks in Oklahoma, there. You don't have any reason to think that if this same survey was done in the other 49 states the results would be any different?
PERRY: No, I don't think they'd be any different. In fact, anecdotally, if we look in many urban centers, we would find that the top children in those schools are immigrant children. So our kids are being beaten by children who do not even know the language. But it's not just there. If we look at America's top colleges and universities and the ivy leagues, in particular, you'll find a great number of children who come from other countries. Our kids are being smoked because we are not preparing them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: He made some really some strong remarks about the state of the education system.
HOLMES: He doesn't back down at all. He's in it, he studies it, and he believes what he believes. Now he's one of ours.
NGUYEN: Yep.
HOLMES: We hired him.
NGUYEN: On the payroll.
HOLMES: Would you like to know, this group, that commissioned this particular survey is called the Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs. It's a conservative group here. Many would say they have their own agenda. And you and I were pointing out yesterday we need to be clear that maybe some of these kids did not take it seriously. It was over the phone. Just some of the answers they gave.
NGUYEN: We could tell that they were not taking it seriously with some of the answers, when it was, the Declaration of Independence, who wrote that? Some of them said Michael Jackson. First president of the United States? Some of them said, Barack Obama. So, there is some indication that, you know, may not have known how serious this poll would be. And what the results would end up being on CNN and other places, you know?
HOLMES: Even with that, Steve pointed out, he said, if it was - he said, I don't care what kind of survey, who the group was that did it, I have no doubt that those numbers are correct. That if you - no matter what poll you did.
NGUYEN: In any place in America, yes.
HOLMES: He wouldn't be surprised at all that those numbers are 100 percent correct.
NGUYEN: That being the case, it does sound pretty shocking that, what, 77 percent of these students didn't know who the first president was. A lot of you have been weighing in. Let's get to some of your responses this morning.
Tyler Evans (ph), this is from my Facebook page. He's from Oklahoma. He says, "Yeah, I'm from Oklahoma. I believe it. My little sister thought the first president was Denzel Washington."
Really, Tyler? Wow.
All right. Let me go to Twitter. Let's see. Let me see if I can find it. T.J., do you have one right now while I try to find one?
HOLMES: I can winnow one out, over here.
NGUYEN: OK.
HOLMES: You know this - and I kind of posed this question to folks. I gave the questions that the kids did not get right. Who was the first president? How many justices? How many years do we elect senators?
I got this response. "George Washington, of course, being the first presidents. 12 supreme court U.S., justices. And every six years we elect U.S. senators. Duh, any idiot knows that."
NGUYEN: 12.
HOLMES: However, there are only 9 Supreme Court justices.
NGUYEN: And any idiot would know that, right?
HOLMES: I'm not calling my Facebook friends idiots. I'm just saying, Betty.
NGUYEN: Just saying.
All right. We are going to move along quickly following that one.
But in the meantime, do reach out to us. Let us know what you think about that survey or any other stories that we're reporting right here on CNN. Reach us on our Facebook pages, Twitter, our blog at CNN.com/betty or CNN.com/tj. There's lots of ways to reach us and we'll read your responses on the air. And we'll try not to call you out.
HOLMES: But we will if we need to.
Betty, you were talking earlier you went through a long list of things the president has to do this week.
NGUYEN: Oh, my goodness. He has a busy week.
HOLMES: A lot of stuff. And on Tuesday, he is heading to New York for the United Nations General Assembly. That meeting taking place, all of those world leader gathered.
NGUYEN: Yes, and on that same day, he's also hosting a meeting with the Israeli prime minister and the president of the Palestinian Authority. CNN Deputy Political Director Paul Steinhauser tells us what else is on President Obama's schedule.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Betty, T.J., call it a big road trip this week for the president.
Mr. Obama is expected to speak out on the economy Monday at a stop in Troy, New York. That is during the afternoon. Now, later he heads down to New York City where Mr. Obama joins David Letterman on late night TV. The president is supposed to be Letterman's only guest Monday night.
The next day, Mr. Obama gathers with other world leaders at the United Nations. This is his first visit to the UN as president. During his three days there, Mr. Obama will deliver his first speech to the United Nations General Assembly. He also goes one-on-one with the Chinese and Russian presidents, and meets the Japanese prime minister for the first time.
Thursday the president heads off to Pittsburgh, where he hosts the G20 summit; that's a gathering of leaders from the world's top 20 economies.
Back here, in Washington, the battle over health care continues. All eyes will be on the Senate Finance Committee. The last congressional panel with a shot at a bi-partisan agreement on health care reform. The real work begins now on a bill introduced last week by the committee's chairman, Max Baucus - Betty, T.J. (END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: This morning at 9:00 a.m. Eastern, President Obama sits down with John King. The full interview on "State of the Union", that's today at 9:00 Eastern.
HOLMES: Race has been a lot, in the news lately, talking about criticism of the president. What do you think about grown folks and race? Can a baby recognize race? We're talking about itty-bitty babies.
NGUYEN: Right.
HOLMES: Like the ones you are seeing here.
NGUYEN: Well, still to come, a new study says yes, babies can. And they can tell who is white, who is black, who is Asian, et cetera. Sound pretty shocking to you. Well, coming up in the next half hour, we will delve into that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Breaking news this morning, three men under arrest in connection with a terrorism probe by the U.S. They are under investigation by the U.S. The probe here in the U.S., those arrests taking place late last night in the Denver suburb of Aurora and in Queens, New York.
HOLMES: The three are charged not with any terrorism charges, but with making false statements. That's part of the investigation that stretches to Pakistan. Our Jim Spellman was there last night when federal agents arrested two of those suspects in Colorado.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): After three days of questioning by the FBI, 24-year-old Najibullah Zazi taken away by the FBI in handcuffs. Also taken away, his father, Mohammed Zazi. It was about 9:30 local time here in Aurora, Colorado, when the black SUVs pulled in. The FBI agents went up the steps to his apartment, seemed to take him away without any incident. Certainly no violence, not even a raised voice.
The arrest comes after three days of voluntary questioning by Zazi, and his attorney. They were scheduled to have a fourth day of questioning. For reasons unknown to us, they canceled that. All day, Zazi stayed here in the apartment and we heard nothing from the FBI and very little even from his attorney. Jim Spellman, CNN, Aurora, Colorado.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: We are going to get more information on this investigation with our terrorism specialist analyst, as well, Peter Bergen. He is coming up very shortly. As soon as we get him on the phone, we will bring that straight to you. And he does have some really good information and good insight into where this investigation is going and what clues it has provided.
HOLMES: And this story being tracked as well, on line. Josh Levs looking at it for us.
Hello again, Josh.
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I was just taking a look at the affidavits against all of these men. We're going to show you, coming up, where they are on, what they say these men are accused of, and not accused of. We'll provide you links, right here, coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: All right, children. They can tell the difference between races much earlier than we ever thought. Well, that is according to a new study by the University of Texas.
HOLMES: David Scott with our affiliate KXAN tells us what this means for parents.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID SCOTT, REPORTER, KXAN: Babies as young as six months notice our color differences, staring longer at photos of people who are different. A study of five-year-olds asked them to sort children's photos into two stacks; 16 percent did it by gender, 68 percent by race.
(On camera): The studies on children and race are contradictory, darned if you do, darned if you don't. For example, putting kids in a diverse mix with others can be positive, but it also accentuates the differences between them.
Likewise, parents talking to their young children about race can be a positive, but it can also plant racial concepts in a child's mind where none existed.
(Voice over): It used to be thought children only noticed race when society pointed it out. Now scientists are not so sure. So, what is a parent to do? Dawn Johnson has a two-year-old.
DAWN JONHSON, PARENT: I think it is a quandary. If you start pointing it out to children at an early age, even if you have the best interests, you're still pointing out differences.
SCOTT: Another dilemma for parents, they can't always control the influences on their child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we didn't put the emphasis on race, then maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal.
SCOTT (On camera): If children are developing racial attitudes at an early age, why do you think that is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it can be because of outside influences, family, friends. SCOTT (voice over): Studies show children naturally gravitate to people like themselves. Only 8 percent of white high schoolers have a best friend of another race. Blacks are more comfortable talking about it. And 75 percent of black parents bring up race with their kindergartners. Only 25 percent of whites do the same. And kids remember those talks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's all different colors in the world, but either way, you should treat people the same, no matter what.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you have close contact with your grandparents, your grandparents are always going to be talking about the stories and stuff like that. So I guess you would develop some kind of separation, but in some ways that hurts us.
SCOTT: The lessons of a child. David Scott, KXAN, Austin News.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: So what do you think? Do you believe it? We want to know what your thoughts are today. E-mail us, weekends@cnn.com. Or find us on Facebook and Twitter. We also have a blog, cnn.com/betty or cnn.com/tj.
HOLMES: From the CNN Center in Atlanta, Georgia, this is CNN SUNDAY MORNING for this September 20th. Hello to you all. I'm T.J. Holmes.
NGUYEN: Hi there, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen. It's a busy morning. Got a lot to tell you about. In fact, there is a developing story, first up, this morning. It's 7 a.m., here in Atlanta, 5 a.m. in Denver, Colorado
Why are we pointing that out? Well, because there have been three arrests, two of them in Colorado.
HOLMES: Two of the, the father and son, arrested in Colorado. Also another man arrested in Queens. This is all part of a supposed terror investigation we have been watching for the past several days. Federal authorities now coming out and saying, yes, we have three people that we have arrested, but not necessarily on terror charges.
NGUYEN: Right. And that's key here because there's an investigation as to, you know, exactly where this plot was going. Was it going to be mass transit, what cities and whatnot? But the people that they were really looking at, especially one guy in particular, he and his father have been arrested on false statements.
So, where does this all lead? Where is it going? We're trying to get the latest now. Homeland Security Correspondent Jeanne Meserve joins us now live from Denver where two arrests have been made.
Bring us up to speed as to what is happening right now in this investigation, Jeanne.
MESERVE: Well, T.J. and Betty, as you say, Najibullah Zazi, he's the man who's been at the center of this investigation. He was arrested last night, as well as his father, Muhammad. And in New York, an acquaintance of theirs was picked up. His name is Ahmad Afzali. All are charge with lying to the FBI during a terror investigation.
According to the charging documents, Afzali -- the man in New York -- tipped off the Zazis to the fact that the FBI was investigating them. But then, according to this document, they allegedly lied to investigators about that fact.
As you mentioned, these are not terror charges, but they do shed some light on the evidence being collected. Now, you know that the younger Zazi and his attorney have both denied that he's admitted having any ties with al Qaeda. But according to these court documents, the younger Zazi, Najibullah Zazi, has admitted going to a training camp in Pakistan and getting training in explosives and weapons.
It also says that on his computer, they found a JPEG with nine pages of handwritten instructions on explosives and specifics of detonators and fusing systems. It also says that during FBI interviews, Zazi denied writing those or seeing those. It also says that during a search of an apartment in Queens, they found a scale and batteries all with Zazi's fingerprints upon them.
But once again, these are not terrorism charges and they do not lay out the specifics of any alleged plot to detonate explosives in the U.S. But what this does, it allows authorities to hold these men and question them further as the investigation unfolds in the U.S. and elsewhere.
Back to you.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: And, Jeanne, I guess we certainly shouldn't assume, but have we been led to believe, at least, and maybe even read some of the tea leaves out there that let us know that maybe some more charges are going to be coming for these men?
MESERVE: Well, we don't know for certain. All we know is this -- they're going to be in court on Monday. If they're convicted on these charges, they could each face eight years in prison. But it would certainly be surprising to me -- as someone who's been watching this case for the last week -- if this was the end of the charges against them.
HOLMES: All right. Jeanne Meserve for us in Denver live this early morning -- Jeanne, we really do appreciate you this morning.
NGUYEN: All right. Well, this investigation is far from over. According to arrest affidavits, the FBI is looking into a possible plot to detonate improvised explosive devices right here in the U.S. and that agents are interested in several individuals in the U.S., Pakistan and elsewhere. So, it is wide ranging.
CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen joins me now by phone. Peter, let's just start with the arrests that we know of so far -- three people. How significant is this considering they've only been arrested on making false statements?
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST (via telephone): Well, you know, if indeed Zazi, the person at the center of this, has admitted that he's attended an al Qaeda training camp, a very plausible charge that would follow these charges of false statements is providing material support to a terrorist organization. Now, material support can include yourself, which a number of terrorism cases in the United States, from John Walker Lindh, the so-called "American Taliban," to many others have revolved around this material support charge. That is certainly a plausible charge in this case.
But the other, I think, interesting thing about this is that we're seeing Afghans being charged. We really haven't seen very much of that in this country. The Afghan-American population has not been radicalized by the war in Afghanistan. But similar to the cases that we saw in Minneapolis with the Somali kids who were radicalized by what was going on in their home country, you know, we are now seeing the very small glimmerings of people who appear to being radicalized by the events in their own country, Betty.
NGUYEN: (INAUDIBLE) are we seeing a larger or widening scale of al Qaeda cells within the U.S.?
BERGEN: You know, I mean, I think it's still a pretty small phenomenon. The American Muslim community tends to reject the al Qaeda ideology almost entirely, although generally better educated than most Americans, on average, have higher incomes, don't live in ghettos, don't tend to be very radicalized.
However, just in the last year or so, we have seen a sort of constellation of cases, none of which are really link, which do raise the issue whether it was -- you may recall in North Carolina, or cases in Minnesota with Somalis, a case in Long Island of a guy how attended an al Qaeda training camp, it appears, in 2008. And so, you know, there have been, in the last year or so, more of these cases than we've seen in the past, Betty.
NGUYEN: Well, let's talk about the issue at hand right now. We've had these three arrests. Could that be enough to thwart a plot if indeed one was underway to attack some major rail systems or commuter systems here in the U.S.?
BERGEN: Yes -- I mean, no doubt. I mean, the allegation is that they were looking to attack some kind of transportation hub. But -- I mean, from what we know from the available information, this was still very much aspirational rather than operational. I mean, the big difference between this case and some other cases that we've seen is what prosecutors often refer to is overt acts.
So, going to Pakistan to a training camp is -- you know, it's more than just discussion of a potential terrorist act. It is -- you know, it is the kind of thing that you do as preparation to do something serious. NGUYEN: All right. National security analyst, Peter Bergen, joining us live by phone -- we're going to see you in our 8:00 hour, as well. Thanks so much for your insight this morning. We'll be talking with you shortly.
HOLMES: Meanwhile, the affidavits -- you can read them about these three men. You can read them online. Josh Levs tells us where we can find them.
Hello, again, Josh.
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, guys. Yes, it is interesting. You know, you hear about the story, a lot of people waking up just getting this. You can see the details and it might get answers to some of the things you're wondering, like what led to these arrests, what do the authorities have and not have, what was said.
Let's zoom right in. We have a lot of video for you about this story. We have a lot of information.
This right here is a link to where the government has posted all these affidavits and arrest warrants. And you can see through here where they actually give you, the text of all of them. And the accusation against all three -- I've taken a look -- it's all the same. They say each did knowingly and willfully make a materially false, fictitious and fraudulent statement in representation in a matter involving international and domestic terrorism. That's the accusation against them. Obviously, we have a lot to learn about what did transpire.
We're also this morning following our affiliate Web sites that are giving us a lot of information here. KDVR is one of them -- sending us photos and asking this question: what if Zazi is innocent? In that area, in the Denver area, there has been a question for days now, ever since the raid, a lot of people are talking about that. Does it make sense? Does the government have enough information? A lot of the latest photos as well.
Also, another one of our affiliates here, KMGH, has been following each detail of this, sending us photos and updated information.
Here's what we're going do, we're following all this as well as the affidavits from the government. This shows the raid the other day. We're going to take these links and we're going to post them for you in some place that you can find all of them very easily.
It will be at our newsroom, CNN.com/Josh. We'll be there in just a few minutes. Also put on Facebook and Twitter. If you want to read these updates yourself, if you want to read the affidavits, as well, see what the government says it has on each of them.
And we're going to be back in the next hour with the latest that's coming in online about this story, Betty and T.J.
HOLMES: All right, Josh, we appreciate it. See you again here shortly.
We'll turn to the president now. He's setting a record today, appearing on five -- count them -- five Sunday talk shows, trying to use his personal powers of persuasion to try to win over folks in the debate over health care reform.
Let's head now to our senior White House correspondent, Ed Henry. He's live for us in Washington.
Ed, as always, good to see you, kind sir.
ED HENRY, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, T.J.
HOLMES: One of the producers up in New York coined this Obama- palooza that we're seeing today. Why do they think this is the way to go? After we've seen a couple rallies, we've seen speeches, we've seen the joint session of Congress -- why is this necessary?
HENRY: Well, it's interesting, because when you talk to top White House aides, they laugh off this charge of overexposure. They say that they believe that when they get the president out there talking about substantive issues like health care, they think the American people respond.
And you mentioned it -- obviously, this is a blitz now by the entire First Family, basically. The president gave that speech to the joint session of Congress. Last weekend, he was on "60 Minutes" -- millions of people seeing that.
This week, he was -- on Thursday, for example -- at the University of Maryland, in this area in Washington, at College Park, sort of a campaign-style rally, really trying to turn up the volume on this fight for health care reform. His wife, the first lady, Michelle Obama was out on Friday. She was talking about -- from the White House -- about how health care and some of the challenges with the insurance industry in particular affects women, affects families.
And so, you go across the board and move forward to this morning, you called it Obama-palooza. Others call it the "full Ginsburg" -- because you remember back during the Monica Lewinsky story, she had a lawyer who named William Ginsburg, who, one Sunday, appeared on all the Sunday talk shows. It was known as the full Ginsburg.
Others have tried to do that and go out and do all the shows. But no president has ever tried to do it and it shows how he is putting all his chips on the table.
HOLMES: And you mentioned that they are -- the White House is laughing off this idea of overexposure. But there are some others out there who think this is not necessarily a good thing. And certainly, if they don't think he's saying anything new, if the American people think he's just out there again and again and again and not -- and still waiting for something different, something new, something more specific.
HENRY: Absolutely. And the critics on the Republican side are already jumping on the fact that each network that did these interviews on Friday at the White House, they'll be rolling them out this morning, starting with John King right here on CNN at 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time. That's where people really get to decide for themselves -- see what he actually said.
Each network over the weekend was only allowed to put out one bit of sound, one sound bite from the interview. And Republicans are already pointing out that most of the networks chose a sound bite, including CNN, about the president basically talking about race and whether he believes that his race is a factor in some of the criticism over health care and other issues.
And what Republicans are pointing out immediately is, why are the networks not putting out sound bites about the public option or sound bites about the cost of health insurance? Is it because the president said nothing new? That's the criticism that's out there in pre-game, if you will.
But we're going to kick all this off on CNN just in less than two hours now. And people will be able to decide for themselves, there's always noise in the pre-game. Let's hear the president speak and he'll do it right here on CNN.
HOLMES: All right. We'll see about the actually game later a bit later. And then the post-game, you know they'll be talking again.
HENRY: Or maybe a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking.
HOLMES: Of course, they will. Ed Henry -- as always, good to see you. Thank you so much.
HENRY: Thanks, T.J.
HOLMES: We'll see you again soon.
And you can watch President Obama later this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION " with John King two hours from now -- 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 Pacific, right here on CNN.
NGUYEN: Well, there's more on the breaking news story that we've been telling you about this morning. Three men arrested right here in the U.S. with possible connections with al Qaeda.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: A defiant online message today attributed to Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar. He predicts the defeat of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan.
CNN's Atia Abawi is live for us in the Afghan capital of Kabul.
Atia, hello to you -- and tell us what exactly is said in this message and should we be taking this seriously? ATIA ABAWI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Mullah Omar did come out with a message on a Taliban Web site. He came out with a message for Eid al-Fitr. It's a Muslim holiday marking the end of the month of Ramadan.
But in that message, he warns U.S. and foreign forces to get out of Afghanistan. He says that they will not be victorious and that the mujahideen and the Taliban will keep fighting them until they leave. He also points to President Obama calling the Afghan war "a war of necessity" -- this time, directing his message to westerners, stating that, he says that this war is not necessary and that, in fact, that the U.S. forces will be defeated, and it's a ploy by western nation, he says, to spread colonialism and Christianity in a Muslim nation.
But in that message, he also directs himself to the Afghan population, trying to reassure them that once the foreigners do leave, that he has a plan to build infrastructure, start a real education system, as he said. And he says that his real goal is for independence for Afghanistan and a just Islamic system. And he also says, quote, "He will consider any option that could lead to the achievement of this goal."
What's interesting here is -- in the past, in the recent past, we've heard from some western diplomats that said that they are willing to negotiate with certain elements within the Taliban. And President Karzai himself is saying that he would sit down with Mullah Omar if it would bring peace to the Afghan people. But now, we're hearing from the top spiritual leader of the Taliban that he is willing to possibly negotiate.
But, obviously, what we have to remember is, that this isn't the Taliban of 10 years ago, although Mullah Omar does come out with the message, there will be many Taliban groups that will listen to him, but there may be other Taliban that may not, because this is obviously not one civil group under one single umbrella. You have different ideologies now that could still be at a danger no matter what Mullah Omar says -- T.J.?
HOLMES: Atia Abawi, we appreciate so much context and background and perspective to put this into, and we certainly appreciate you breaking that down for us this morning. Atia Abawi, thank you so much.
NGUYEN: And we're going to have more on our breaking news into that terrorism plot, a possible one. There have been three arrests, dealing with false statements. How does it all come together? We'll bring that information to you right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: President Obama will be trying to play peacemaker. The president meets on Tuesday with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. This meeting is to take place in New York while all three are in the city for a United Nations General Assembly meeting. HOLMES: Listen to this. A really insane killer is on the loose in Washington State. That's what one that's bad enough. But when you hear about how this happened, you are really going to be shaking your head here. Police say that Phillip Paul -- there he is, he's the one that escaped -- they say he escaped during a mental hospital field trip to the county fair. He is a guy who has admitted to killing someone and was committed to a mental hospital. And they apparently take these day trips, these field trips, and investigators are now searching for him. They've been looking for him since Thursday.
And the state now is investigating this hospital and their policy that allows patients to take these field trips.
NGUYEN: That's just shocking there.
And this maybe a little shocking for you, too. Father and son in Aurora, Colorado, and a man in Queens -- all three have been arrested. This stems from an alleged plan to set off bombs in the U.S.
But we have to be clear: they were only arrested on making false statements. Now, they have not been charged with terrorism or anything like that. But there is an extensive terror probe that stretches all the way from here in the U.S. to Pakistan. And there's a lot more coming up on this story.
Well, this is the top story on our Web site. And for more information on it, all you have to do is go to CNN.com. And, of course, we're going to have more on this in the next half hour of CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
HOLMES: Also this morning, a hero's welcome in Italy.
(VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Our Nic Robertson was there when six Italians who were killed in Afghanistan return home.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Six Italian soldiers are finally home, but not the way their families had hoped. The soldiers were killed in a suicide attack in Afghanistan on the deadliest day for Italian troops.
CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now by -- actually he joins us live from Rome. There he is.
Nic, you were at the ceremony this morning. Give us the latest.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Betty, a very emotional time, particularly for the family members who were there. We saw mothers crying at the caskets.
One incident particularly sticks out in my mind -- a young boy, the son of one of the soldiers being carried by his mother, the wife of the fallen soldiers, a young boy just a couple of years old wearing the maroon beret of his father. All of these six soldiers were paratroopers. That's the color of their beret -- this young boy wearing the beret And then a little later, we could see him running around, crying, clearly not understanding what was going on, but obviously in pain and grief.
This is a day that the nation is going to feel, as well. People are rallying around these families. We saw soldiers supporting the families as the caskets were taken away to the waiting hearses. There will be an autopsy on their bodies, and then they will be laid in state, if you will, to the families to pay their last suspects. And also the members of the public here in Italy to pay their last respects.
Tomorrow is a day of national mourning. There will be a state funeral tomorrow for these six soldiers. And what we were told by one of the defense chiefs at the airfield today were the bodies came back to, we were told that the military will support the families.
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GEN. VINCENZO CAMPORINI, ITALIAN ARMED FORCES: I don't believe that in such a circumstance there's room for anything else than sorrow and grief, in particular from the families. I want to let them know that the armed forces of Italy will never let them down and we will sustain them in any possible way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: But these deaths really come as a shock to the Italian nation. Afghanistan is not something that's on their minds very much in the past eight years. They've only lost 15 soldiers there. This is the biggest single attack. So this really strikes at the heart of the nation and makes them very aware of the battle in Afghanistan and also question why their troops are there and what's happening -- Betty?
NGUYEN: On the heels of that, I want to ask you this, because the Italian prime minister has pretty much called for the withdrawal of troops in Afghanistan. Any progress on that front? Any idea if that indeed is going to happen?
ROBERTSON: It doesn't appear that it's likely to happen, Betty. He said, perhaps it would be in the best interest of everyone if the troops pulled out. He said that on Thursday, in the immediate aftermath of the attack. But his political (INAUDIBLE) himself have made it very clear on Thursday, and again on Friday that there is no intention to pull Italian troops out of Afghanistan.
There are about 2,800 there permanently. There are about 300 to 500 additional troops there for the elections. Those additional troops will be coming back, we're told. But at the moment, and we heard this from the defense chief, as well, today, that they will continue -- Italy will continue to send its troops to Afghanistan.
But, of course, this does strike at the heart of the debate in NATO right now over the best way forward to win the war in Afghanistan -- Betty? NGUYEN: Nic Robertson joining us live today -- thank you, Nic. We do appreciate it.
HOLMES: We'll tell you about a manhunt that's underway right now in the Pacific Northwest, where a illegally insane inmate has escaped. Now, the details of his escape are shocking enough.
NGUYEN: Yes, they are.
HOLMES: But we've got some more to tell you about here, and that's because time might be running out because investigators are worried what could happen when this inmate is not taking his medication. We'll tell you about this in just a second.
NGUYEN: Yes, you don't want to miss that story.
And also this -- how much President Obama is too much? Well, he could be reaching the saturation point with five appearances this morning alone on national networks. We'll get reaction from "STATE OF THE UNION's" Howard Kurtz in our next hour.
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NGUYEN: Yes, all the single ladies, all the single men, listen up, because today starts Unmarried and Single Americans Week.
HOLMES: Who knew?
NGUYEN: Who knew? But, you know, unmarried includes never been married, widowed, divorced. Indeed, there are 96 million Americans 18 and older who are single. I didn't know there are so many. Auctions out there apparently.
HOLMES: Wow! It's not -- and again, this is not supposed to be a week to go out there and get hitched and start dating and all that stuff. It's just to suppose to be...
NGUYEN: You can celebrate it any way you want.
HOLMES: You're not supposed to be celebrating being single. And the idea here is just to be supportive of people who are single and who work, a lot of them are single parents, some of them unmarried, widowed, divorced, all these things who don't necessarily themselves as single, like they're out there on the market. So, there's -- I'm trying to give it some context here and you just want to go (INAUDIBLE).
NGUYEN: It's singles week, everybody. Celebrate. OK? I'm kidding.
All right. We want to know what you think this morning. Email us at Weekends@CNN.com. Let us know what you're doing for singles week. Find us on Facebook, Twitter. We also have a blog at CNN.com/Betty or CNN.com/TJ. HOLMES: Are you going to post what you're doing for singles week?
NGUYEN: No, I'm not, because I'm not doing anything exciting, yet. OK.
HOLMES: All right, folks. We're going to get her under control. But we're going to send this over to Dr. Sanjay Gupta and "HOUSE CALL." But we'll be back, of course, at the top of the hour with more live news. Stay here.
