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CNN Sunday Morning
Red Mass in Washington D.C.; Police Force Draws Fire; Unsung Hero; Seniors' Health Concern; Supreme Court Starts New Term; Eight Americans Killed in Afghanistan; Senate Committee Rejects Public Option
Aired October 04, 2009 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. How you doing out there? Hopefully well.
How you doing, T.J.?
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. I am fairly well. Everybody seems to be enthused about this hour.
NGUYEN: I know. It is a good day.
HOLMES: It's a good day. Yes.
NGUYEN: Welcome to CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
It is October 4th. Good morning, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen.
HOLMES: And I'm T.J. Holmes. Good to have you all here. That was kind of funny. You all don't see at home, but the prompter has our names messed up.
I'm T.J. Nguyen, I believe, and she's Betty Holmes.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: It's 8:00 a.m. here in Atlanta where we seat, 7:00 a.m. in Oklahoma City, 5:00 a.m. in San Bernardino. They've got a mess going on.
NGUYEN: Oh, yet. It's called the sheep fire, which is an interesting name, but, boy, the folks who are affected by it, not happy at all. Some 50-plus homes have been evacuated; three homes destroyed. This fire started yesterday around 2:00 p.m., and it's about 60 miles east of Los Angeles. We're going to give you an update on where it is right now and what is being threatened.
HOLMES: Also, a story you're probably going to be hearing more about in the coming days and weeks. Rockford, Illinois, where -- people there are really mobilizing after a black man who was unarmed was shot and killed by two police officers in front of children at a daycare at a church. The NAACP now demanding a Department of Justice investigation, even though a couple of other investigations are going on. We'll be looking into that story a little bit this morning.
We want to talk a little bit some politics right now. It's Sunday. Of course, it's a day for politics.
President Obama meets with his national security team coming up on Afghanistan and Pakistan. He's going to do that twice this week, going to do it on Wednesday and on Friday. He is, of course, considering whether or not to send more U.S. troops to Afghanistan.
Elsewhere on the political landscape, negotiations on health care reform resume. The Senate Finance Committee plans to vote on a plan it debated all last week.
Also this week, Attorney General Eric Holder and Education Secretary Arne Duncan traveled to Chicago. That will be on Wednesday. They're going to meet with students from the high school attended by an honor student who was beaten to death last week. Of course, we just saw him laid to rest yesterday.
NGUYEN: All right. So, the first Monday in October -- that being tomorrow -- marks the start of the Supreme Court's new term, and this term is full of firsts: The first session under President Obama and the first with new Associate Justice Sonia Sotomayor.
Jonathan Turley is a law professor at George Washington University and he joins me now to talk about the term ahead.
Thanks for being with us today.
JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Good morning.
NGUYEN: Good morning.
All right. So how much influence does a new justice like Sotomayor make on the high court?
TURLEY: She may have considerable influence, although not, perhaps, what most liberals had hoped for. If she votes the way she did on the second circuit, she may add a swing vote to the Supreme Court. She may join Justice Kennedy towards the middle of the court on a number of cases. For liberals, that's going to be somewhat bitter, because they wanted a reliable liberal vote, much like David Souter.
But actually on the second circuit, Sotomayor would often vote with the conservatives. And free speech advocates and civil libertarians are very concerned that this court has a number of major free speech cases, the types of which she would often...
NGUYEN: Give us an example.
TURLEY: Well, a good example is the Stevens case, which involved a dog-fighting video where a person was convicted. It's illegal to sell such things. It presents a sort of bright line rule for the First Amendment. The traditional rule is that you can criminalize the conduct, the underlying conduct, but you don't criminalize the speech. People showing images that other people might find offensive.
There's also, "Hillary the Movie," which is a case involving whether corporations should have free speech rights, much like individuals. There's also a question of the free -- I'm sorry -- free exercise of religion and entanglement of the government. There's a case out of the Mojave where there's a cross that is being challenged. It was placed there in the 1930s by veterans. And the argument by the government is that it's serving a secular purpose, even though it is a religious symbol.
Those are the types of cases that were raised in the confirmation hearings by liberals as being a matter of concern over Sotomayor. And so, she's going to very early on tell us where she's going to fall on the court.
NGUYEN: And you feel like that she's going to fall more along the conservative line, even though President Obama and many Democrats were hoping that she would stay pretty liberal on the court?
TURLEY: Well, she wasn't particularly liberal on the second circuit. That's the issue. She has over 500 cases and they were -- they did not create a consistent liberal voting pattern, particularly in these areas. The biggest concern is a case called Doneger where she voted to strip away free speech rights for high school students in what they put on Facebook and other sites after hours. And she voted with the more conservative position in that case.
NGUYEN: So, you're saying she could possibly be a swing vote. But as we look at the court when it does convene on Monday, fundamentally, conservative, moderate -- what do you say?
TURLEY: Well, it's close. It is a 5-4 court on many issues. The conservatives, if they get Kennedy, can control the court. He is the swing voter.
The question is whether at the end of this term we're going to have two swing voters and whether Sotomayor will essentially assume the position of Sandra Day O'Connor -- when she was on the court, she was the ultimate swing voter.
And so, there's going to be a lot of attention to some of these cases. There's also Eighth Amendment cases of interests of whether you can give life imprisonment to minors for non-capital or non-death penalty -- non-homicide cases. And so there's a lot of test cases for Sotomayor.
NGUYEN: It's going to be interesting to see how she votes and how this court as a whole votes on all of these cases.
Jonathan Turley, thanks so much for your insight today. We appreciate it.
TURLEY: Thank you.
HOLMES: That's going to be a gun rights case that they're going to be looking at the Supreme Court. Probably one a lot of people will have their eyes on, could affect firearm owners all across this country, but one of the four plaintiffs in this case says he's not an activist at all. Seventy-six-year-old Otis McDonald told CNN's Fredricka Whitfield he just wants to own a firearm within Chicago City limits so he can protect himself and his own home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OTIS MCDONALD, PLAINTIFF IN CHICAGO GUN RIGHTS CASE: I think it would help, because if somebody -- if there's a deterring factor, this would be it. If you have a gun in your home, somebody outside would be a little bit reluctant to try to enter to take your belongings, take your life, or anything else for that matter. They would think, for instance, that, "Well, if I'm going to come face to face with what I've got, then I need to think twice about this."
And this is the -- this is the intent. This is one of the intents: to deter. I don't want to kill anybody. I don't want to let -- mess up nobody at all. I just -- I just would like to be able to own a gun in my own home since it is my inherited right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, the attorney representing the plaintiff says he's confident the Supreme Court will overrule the ban, but the city, not backing down. Officials say the ban on guns there is aimed at reducing gun violence in urban areas. Some say that would not be working, given a lot of the violence that we have seen in Chicago.
There was a funeral there for a teenager that has become a rallying cry against city violence. This teenager was beaten however. Hundreds of mourners came together to remember the 16-year-old, Derrion Albert, beaten to death on his way home from school. The Reverend Jesse Jackson and the Nation of Islam minister, Louis Farrakhan, also there.
President Obama sending Attorney General Eric Holder, also the education secretary, Arne Duncan, to Chicago Wednesday to meet with school officials.
NGUYEN: Well, in Southern California, 45-mile-an-hour winds have just pushed a wildfire across the mountains and canyons of San Bernardino County. Check this out -- three homes have been destroyed and 50 others have been evacuated. Camp grounds and an R.V. park have also been cleared out.
This fire is only about 5 percent contained. So, there is a lot of work still to be done. The cause -- well, that's still under investigation.
HOLMES: All right. Let's turn to Reynolds.
Reynolds, what can you tell us about the wind conditions out there and the weather conditions that often -- so often play a factor in how these fires go?
NGUYEN: Yes.
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Oh, well, we're going to be seeing today, wind gusts topping, say, 20, 30, 40 miles an hour. But what happens when you have the afternoon temperatures going up, but it's not going to be all that hot. We're only talking about temperatures in the 40s -- or rather, I'm sorry, the 60s and 70s.
But in the mountains, in the valleys, they tend to get a little bit warmer, possibly some 80s there. But when that winds pass through the mountains, they tend to accelerate. And when that air goes through the mountain passes, it sometimes tends to heat up a little bit. So, that's going to further dry out a lot of that foliage.
The sheep fire, you could have some issues there in the San Bernardino County, not just for today, but for several days, because it's only 5 percent contained, as you mentioned, and very little in terms of precipitation in the forecast, even the marine layer looks they're certainly going to work for them.
Entirely different situation when you get your way back towards parts of Texas, where we could see, this area of low pressure, the heavy rainfall from not only places like Louisiana back into Texas, into Arkansas or Oklahoma, you could have some flash flooding in a few spots, anywhere from, say, one to four inches of rainfall possible.
And believe it or not, we actually do have some flash flood watches that are in effect for parts of Georgia at this time. One of the reasons why is because they anticipate this low to track its way a bit more to the east. And if that should occur, you might see an inch or two of rainfall in the Georgia. Especially in the Atlanta area where we've dealt with some heavy flooding, 100-year floods just over the last couple of weeks.
Now, what we're going to be seeing back in towards the west, some heavy snowfall in the highest elevations. The Central and Northern Rockies, the Bitterroots of Montana continue anywhere from one to even four feet of snowfall. Then into parts of southern California, it's pretty nice for you, a mix of sunshine and clouds.
We have a shot from Dallas, a live image for you. We're going to pop that up any second now. It's going to show you your day so far is going to be a cloudy one at that.
Do we have the live image from Dallas? Maybe not. Just get that nice image of Dallas or just an image of an umbrella, because that's basically what they're going to need.
All right. You're up to speed. Let's send it back to you guys at the news desk.
NGUYEN: And they have so much rain already. So...
WOLF: Yes, they certainly have.
NGUYEN: Just another day like it. OK. Thank you, Reynolds.
WOLF: You bet guys.
NGUYEN: OK. So, we're learning more this morning about one of the fiercest battles in the eight-year Afghan war.
HOLMES: Eight Americans and two Afghan soldiers have been killed in a Taliban attack on two remote outposts near the Pakistan border.
Our Atia Abawi is in Kabul for us. She's on the phone with us now.
And, Atia, try to categorize for us the nature of this attack -- one of opportunity or something that appears to be well planned?
ATIA ABAWI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, T.J., it seems to be well-planned. According to the defense ministry here in Afghanistan, they're telling us that hundreds of Taliban firefighters surrounded these two joint outposts at the Afghan national army and a U.S. forces outpost in Nuristan in eastern Afghanistan, that it was a complex attack. They were firing rockets. They engaged in small arms fire as well. And in the end, as you mentioned, eight U.S. troops were killed, two Afghan soldier also killed.
We're still trying to hearing on reports that some of these Afghan soldiers may have been taken hostage by the Taliban. We're still waiting to get more and more information, but when we did speak to the U.S. forces here in Afghanistan, they told us that the Taliban themselves paid a heavy price for that attack. They did call in air support and they also did, obviously, attack on the insurgency.
But as you mentioned, it is a very, very intricate attack, showing that the Taliban, they are not backing down. Even with these new forces that came in, we saw thousands of coalition forces flooding the country this summer, and right now, the Taliban tactic is to wait them out. To make them feel that they can't last in Afghanistan as the mujahideen did to the Soviets back in the '80s -- T.J.?
HOLMES: And, Atia, quickly, what are the U.S. and Afghan forces saying about how they want to move forward in trying to keep attacks like this from happening again?
ABAWI: It really depends on who you talk to. Many will say that they need more forces to prevent attacks like this. Others say, particularly those in the Afghan government, say that if you bring in more forces, you're going to look like an occupying army, as the Soviets did.
But when you talk to the Afghans, they have a mixed opinion as well. They don't necessarily want to see more civilian casualties that we have seeing with air strikes, but at the same time, they're very scared that the U.S. forces and to coalition forces will leave because they don't know what will fill that vacuum they leave behind, whether it will another civil war or whether it will be another Taliban government. So, they're obviously very, very afraid -- T.J.?
HOLMES: Atia Abawi for us in Kabul -- Atia, we appreciate you, as always. Thank you so much.
NGUYEN: All right. We have been watching this fire -- this wildfire out of California this morning. We want to bring you some more live pictures right now. It's called the sheep fire. It's near San Bernardino. But you can just see -- even the night sky -- how the flames are just really bright there. What we know so far: three homes have been destroyed. Some 50 others evacuated. The problem is the winds. They are blowing 40 miles per hour.
Now, all of this is just northeast of San Bernardino, California. The area is not far from Interstate 15, which is a major route connecting Las Vegas with southern California. So, that could pose problem if they do not get this contained.
Right now, it looks like they're having a lot of trouble getting it contained. The blaze has burned some 1,500 acres, but only 5 percent has been contained. So, there's a lot of work still to be done. And the cause of this fire is still under investigation. But we are watching it closely for you and just wanted to bring you some of the latest pictures out of California.
HOLMES: All right. And the president, meanwhile, he's keeping a close eye on health care reform, health care debate. This week, it's going to be heating up. In particular, one part of his plan appears to be in critical condition right now.
NGUYEN: Yes. And it seems like it's the part that everyone is talking about, and it's that public option. The question: will it live or will it die? We're going to get some answers from Capitol Hill.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, the Senate Finance Committee said no to a public option as part of health care reform. But it doesn't mean the issue is completely off the table just yet.
Our senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash reports Democrats backing the plan not going to give up so easily.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLERK: Mr. Conrad?
SEN. KENT CONRAD (D), NORTH DAKOTA: No.
CLERK: Mr. Conrad, no.
Mrs. Lincoln?
SEN. BLANCHE LINCOLN (D), ARKANSAS: No.
CLERK: Mrs. Lincoln, no.
Mr. Nelson?
SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: No.
CLERK: Mr. Nelson, no.
DANA BASH, CNN SR. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What you're seeing and hearing...
CLERK: Mr. Chairman?
SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D), CHAIRMAN, FINANCE COMMITTEE: No.
CLERK: Mr. Chairman, no.
BASH: ... are Senate Democrats opposing...
CLERK: ... 15 nays.
BAUCUS: The amendment fails.
BASH: ... and defeating a Democratic priority: a government-run insurance option for health care. The Democratic chairman who helped block a public plan called it simple math.
BAUCUS: I can count. And no one has been able to show me how we can count up to 60 votes with a public option in the bill.
BASH: Senate Democratic leadership sources privately tell CNN, he's right, there aren't enough votes to pass a public option in the Senate. But don't try to tell that to ardent Democratic supporters of a public plan, determined to fight the fight anyway.
SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D), WEST VIRGINIA: Give people a choice. What is wrong with giving people a choice?
BASH: Arguing the only way to drive down the high cost of health care is to have a nonprofit government-run health care option to compete with for-profit insurers.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: A public option, every day and in every way in rules we haven't thought about, will compete and bring those costs down and serve the public as opposed to simply the shareholders.
BASH: The Democratic divide on this issue is so deep, a liberal Democratic group is running this ad against the Democratic chairman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Baucus, when you take millions of dollars in health and insurance interests that oppose reform and oppose giving families like mine the choice of a public option, I have to ask: whose side are you on?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: With that running back home, it's no wonder Max Baucus and other moderate Democrats against the public option mostly let the Republicans do the talking here.
SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: The government is not a fair competitor. It's not even a competitor.
SCHUMER: So, you don't want Medicare?
GRASSLEY: It's a predator.
BASH (on camera): Supporters of a government-run health care option tried to put a positive spin on their defeat, saying they got more Democratic votes on this conservative committee than they thought they would. Still, there's no getting around the fact that losing is at the very least a symbolic blow to a huge Democratic priority on health care, especially for the president.
Dana Bash, CNN, Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Well, we have another check of the morning's top stories in just three minutes.
HOLMES: And also coming up, we've got the main man, John King.
NGUYEN: Yes, we do.
HOLMES: All right. He's going to be joining us live, talking about all the political issues, got all the bases covered -- certainly about troop increases, possibly, in Afghanistan. Also that crime crisis in Chicago -- he's going to be breaking down the administration's response to these issues and much more. He's live with us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Hello and welcome back.
Let's take a quick look at some of our top stories today.
Eight U.S. service members and two Afghan soldiers have been killed in eastern Afghanistan. Hundreds of Taliban militants surrounded two security outposts in Nuristan province, which is northeast of Kabul. Those deaths come as President Obama considers whether to pour more troops into Afghanistan.
HOLMES: Hundreds of mourners came together in Chicago this weekend to remember 16-year-old Derrion Albert, who was beaten to death on his way home from school. President Obama, meanwhile, sending two cabinet members to Chicago this week to talk with school officials, students, and residents there about school violence.
NGUYEN: The Chinese premiere arriving in North Korea for a three-day visit. The two will discuss foreign relations and the premiere will also attend events celebrating the 60th anniversary of official diplomatic relations between the two nations.
HOLMES: All right. It's Sunday and Sunday talk is always on the agenda.
NGUYEN: Yes.
HOLMES: And who better to talk to on a Sunday than our own John King from "STATE OF THE UNION" coming up here in about 35 minutes.
Good morning to you, sir. How are you?
JOHN KING, "STATE OF THE UNION" HOST: Good morning, Betty and T.J. How you guys doing this morning?
NGUYEN: We're doing all right. But the situation in Afghanistan is not so great. Eight more Americans killed.
Give us a little idea about President Obama. He met with McChrystal this past week. And what's going forward with that effort?
KING: Going forward, Betty, is the big question, because that face- to-face meeting very important. The president only met face-to-face with General McChrystal one time before and we know the general wants more troops, as many as 40,000 more troops. There's a big debate inside the White House about whether that's the right strategy.
And these sad deaths this morning, another reminder to the American people, it's been about eight years since we first launched troops into Afghanistan. Many people now questioned, exactly what is the mission? Is this about nation-building? Is this about al Qaeda and the Taliban?
And the president has a big decision to make. And we know there are some inside the White House who think more troops is not the way to go. They prefer a smaller footprint in Afghanistan and using more drones and special operations forces. The commanding general very publicly has said, "Mr. President, I need these troops and I need them pretty soon."
So, it's a fascinating debate. It played out -- one of the people we have on the program today is one of the guys helping the president make that decision, his national security adviser, Retired General Jim Jones. So, looking forward to that conversation.
HOLMES: And, John, did the president -- you mentioned it there, he's met with the general one time. I guess he got a little criticism after McChrystal did that "60 Minutes" interview and said he'd only talked to the president once. How much backlash did the president get for that, first of all, and also, about the decision about troops? I mean, he has said plenty times, he would listen to his commanders, his commanders saying what he needs. So, it's one thing to make a military decision, but it sounds like they're contemplating a political decision over at the White House as well.
KING: Of course, any decision the president makes about troops has both policy implications and political implications, T.J. But that's part of the big issue here.
We do know that Vice President Biden and the White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel are among those who say, "Well, we should at least consider other options and consider them very diligently before we commit to more troops in Afghanistan."
But you do have this remarkable situation where the commander is out publicly saying, "I need them." He gave a big speech in London last week. And if you talk to people inside the White House, privately they will tell you they're not so thrilled that General McChrystal is mounting this public campaign. They say they have full confidence in him, but that it does put the president in a bit of a box.
What if the president says no? What if the president says you get no more troops or you get 10,000 but not 40,000? What happens then in the political environment? And, obviously, the bigger question is, as Americans are reminded again today of the stakes -- the loss of millions of dollars and the loss of more blood and life today in Afghanistan. What are the policy implications and this is a huge channel for the president.
NGUYEN: And you speak of loss of life. Let's shift over to the U.S. here and the situation in Chicago where we've had several students that were killed just lately. A boy was beaten to death, had his funeral yesterday. I know the president is working on the situation. He's sending, what, the education secretary and the U.S. attorney general to Chicago this week, correct?
KING: That's right. Eric Holder, the attorney general; and Arne Duncan, who is from Chicago. He was the Chicago's school chief before he came to join the administration as education secretary. This is always a tough one inside any White House. How much do you want to get involved in a city's big, local problem?
But this is President Obama's adopted hometown. We saw that last week when he was pushing for the Olympics. And it's Michelle Obama's hometown, she grew up there.
And so, the administration clearly wants to send some emissaries out to Chicago, essentially saying, "Look, we know you're dealing with it at the school level, at the police level, the mayor is dealing with this, what can we do in Washington to help and maybe can we offer some moral support at this very challenging time for the city of Chicago."
HOLMES: You're speaking of all these challenges and challenging times. Oh, yes, unemployment is still going up. Oh, yes, the health care debate is still going on.
There's a lot on the plate. I mean, I guess, how do you even prioritize here? They're all priorities, but -- I mean, how much are these other big issues going to slow down now the health care reform debate that seemed to be first and foremost, and the economic issue, which seems to be on everybody's mind?
KING: Well, the president said thing very interesting when he came back from Copenhagen and he was saying how he wished they'd won the Olympics, but they didn't. Then he talked about this new unemployment numbers. The economy lost more than 260,000 jobs last month -- that is more than most anticipated. And then unemployment rate up to 9.8 percent. The president, of course, said he's going to try to help Americans get jobs who he needs job and he said he's meeting with his advisers to consider new options.
So, remember, we had a big stimulus bill passed early in the year, nearly $900 billion. The White House is now considering a mix of other proposals. Some of them are more government spending, some of them could be tax cuts. And the president clearly seeing here, as we get later in the year, that the economy may be starting to slowly come back, but the jobs are not coming back quickly.
And so, the big question for the administration is, will they do more? And if they say yes, exactly what will they do? Again, you mentioned all the challenges, T.J. They have said that they don't expect to deal with climate change this year. That had been something they hope to do in the first year.
But the health care bill will start moving forward -- and as the president watches that, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. That is the one word that all presidencies, politically, are defined by and the president knows that.
NGUYEN: All right. Well, John King, you are coming back at the top of the hour. We will be looking forward to it.
KING: See you later guys.
NGUYEN: Our viewers out, "STATE OF THE UNION" with John King at 9:00 a.m. Eastern. Don't go anywhere.
HOLMES: All right. Thanks, John.
NGUYEN: Meantime, though, one man has been called a hero from rescuing a little boy from a New York City apartment fire, but he had a little bit of help from a brave and publicity-shy firefighter.
HOLMES: Yes, that hero story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
T.J. HOLMES, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Good morning again. And welcome back to this CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I'm T.J. Holmes.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen. Thanks for joining us today.
Give you a beautiful shot this morning of Washington, D.C., as that city wakes up. You're looking at the Capitol right there. Sun is out and the forecast calls for just a gorgeous day there.
And tomorrow, going to be a nice one as well, as those Supreme Court justices start their new session.
Today, many, though, will likely be attending a special mass. It is a Catholic tradition in Washington. It's called the Red Mass. And like so many other things in Washington, the mass draws considerable attention.
HOLMES: And a little controversy.
NGUYEN: A little bit.
HOLMES: Kind of happens in D.C., doesn't it?
NGUYEN: Yes. Exactly.
Here's Elaine Quijano with today's "Faces of Faith."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Under the soaring dome of Washington's St. Matthews Cathedral, the Catholic Archdiocese hosts an annual church service called the Red Mass. Archbishop Donald Wuerl says the centuries-old tradition began in Europe with one purpose.
ARCH. DONALD WUERL, CATHEDRAL OF ST. MATTHEWS THE APOSTLE: Bring all of the people involved in the law -- bring them all together once a year so that together they can simply pray for the wisdom of God.
QUIJANO: In Washington, the Red Mass -- named for the red vestments the priests wear -- began in the 1950s, and is attended by both Catholic and sometimes non-Catholic Supreme Court justices. This year, six of the nine justices on the high court are Catholic: Chief Justices John Roberts and Justices Antonin Scalia, Samuel Alito, Clarence Thomas, Anthony Kennedy, and Sonia Sotomayor.
Monsignor W. Ronald Jamison who's worked at St. Matthews for 25 years says the cathedral is an especially appropriate place to seek guidance.
MSGR. RONALD JAMESON, CATHEDRAL OF ST. MATTHEW THE APOSTLE: Matthew is the patron saint of civil workers, civil servants.
QUIJANO: But others argue the justices' attendance at the Catholic Church service is inappropriate.
REV. BARRY LYNN, AMERICANS UNITED FOR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE: There is no other institution that has this special way to talk to the justices on the Supreme Court.
QUIJANO: He notes a past sermon on a hot-button issue prompted one Supreme Court justice to stop attending.
LYNN: Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg no longer goes to the Red Mass, because she said, "I'm tired of being lectured to about abortion."
QUIJANO: Justice Ginsburg's office declined to comment.
Archbishop Wuerl rejects the notion of the mass as a chance for the church to lobby the justices.
ARCH WUERL: Once you enter into the sanctuary of the church for the Red Mass, politicking stops. What we do is pray.
QUIJANO: And he maintains in the United States, faith and the government will always intersect.
(on camera): One prominent non-Catholic who attended the Red Mass regularly, the late Chief Justice William Rehnquist. Though he was Lutheran, he asked that his funeral be held at St. Matthews.
Elaine Quijano, CNN, the Supreme Court.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Also this morning, we are following the aftermath of two separate disasters in Southern Asia.
Let's take you to Indonesia first. Search crews admit that time and hope are running out for hundreds of people still missing in this week's devastating earthquakes. More than 600 people are confirmed dead.
HOLMES: And in the northern Philippines, local media reporting that Typhoon Parma has triggered a deadly landslide; at least 12 people are reported dead. This comes on the heels of an earlier typhoon that killed more than 240 people last week.
And if you would like to help victims of the Indonesia earthquake, you can go to Impact Your World, our home page on cnn.com.
NGUYEN: Yes. And if you go there, you can find all kinds of links to aid groups including the Red Cross and World Vision. Again, CNN.com/impact.
HOLMES: A quick break; we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Residents in a small Illinois town are demanding two things this morning. First, they want to be heard. And second, they need an answer to a question. When should a police officer be allowed to use deadly force?
Rockford, Illinois, is what we're talking about; it's located 80 miles from Chicago. The city had seen its share of racial tension in the past but six weeks ago, two police officers shot an unarmed man. That incident and others has the NAACP calling for a national standard on police force this morning.
Hilary Shelton, the organization's vice president for advocacy talking to us live this morning. A controversial case here, sad case, no doubt; this actually happened -- a few more details here -- happened in front of kids who were at a day care at a church. This was an unarmed man as well, a black suspect and two white officers involved here.
To give a little more background there, I do have statements here from the attorney for the police and also the mayor that I'll share in just a second.
But I want to ask you first, Hilary. Good morning to you. Thanks for being here. Is the NAACP willing to wait and accept the findings of the investigations that are now going on into this incident, or does the NAACP feel like they already know what happened here and already come to your own conclusions? HILARY O. SHELTON, VP FOR ADVOCACY, NAACP: The information we have at this point raises major concerns. We have reached out to the attorney general's office asking for the U.S. Department of Justice to do an independent investigation. We're always concerned when police departments decide to investigate themselves, when instances like this occur.
So we will be waiting, watching very carefully. But we know that what we've seen so far seems to be part of a national trend, unfortunately, and something that very well needs to be addressed.
HOLMES: We asked the attorney representing the Rockford police Union, Tim O'Neil, to respond. We want to read what he sent to us. It says, quote, "The first thing I want to urge is that no one to jump to conclusions here. The end of the findings will be released to the public after a complete investigation from the Illinois state police, which is an independent agency.
It says, "I cannot tell you what my client has told me because it is privileged, however what I know from reading statements in the press is inconsistent with what I have seen at the crime one hour after it happened."
We also got a comment from the mayor who's also saying that they have hired an independent consulting firm out of Oakland, California to look into this investigation as well.
The NAACP, still, however, Betty, asking for the Justice Department to get involved. This will be going on for quite some time.
NGUYEN: Yes and we'll be watching it as well.
In the meantime, though, it's never too early to think about how health care reform could and will affect you.
HOLMES: Never too early. And even some students at those young ages are wondering about it. We asked them about it and we'll get their perspective next in our "Extra Credit" report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: All right. So what are your kids talking about today? Maybe a lot of them are talking about health care reform. Really? They might be because it's a big topic. And here at CNN, especially in Student News, we try to get that information down to the kiddos.
HOLMES: And it's from the kiddos -- this is not offensive in any way, Carl -- but you speak the kiddo language.
NGUYEN: Yes you do.
CARL AZUZ, CNN STUDENT NEWS: I try to.
HOLMES: You try to.
AZUZ: I talk to them everyday. NGUYEN: Health care reform, how do you speak that in the class room?
AZUZ: A very good question. Though one thing that surprises us is how insightful students are. You may not think that middle and high school students would be able to ask about something like health care reform, but they hear their parents talking about it. They hear the teachers talking about it.
And one student named Laura recently wrote into our blog at CNNStudentNews saying, "Everyone grows that health care needs to be reformed. There's no question. It's how we reform it that's the question." And Laura is very right.
As we're looking at this issue on CNN Student News, we're asking our student audience and we're trying to give them an idea of what's going on. If you guys were to talk about the most contentious part of the health care debate, what would you say it was?
HOLMES: That's clear.
NGUYEN: Public option.
HOLMES: Yes. The public versus...
AZUZ: There you go. Exactly right. This is something that on CNN Student News, first we had to define for students what the public option was. And then after that, we have a clip for you today of how we help them understand what folks who support it and folks who criticize it are saying.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AZUZ: Supporters say it would be cheaper than private insurance, cover people who don't currently have private insurance, and compete with private insurance companies, forcing them to bring their costs down.
Opponents say a public option would cost way too much money, put a strain on the current health care system with so many more people covered, and eventually lead to a government takeover of health care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AZUZ: So stories like that help set them up for the senate's finance committee news coming out last week, where they voted to keep public option out of a compromise bill and hopefully help get them to understand everything that's going on and everything they're hearing about from Washington.
NGUYEN: Which is hard especially when you've got all these -- these possible bills being debated and a lot of people too don't really understand what does public option means. We hear the word thrown around, but that was a good description of it, definitely. HOLMES: But are the kids -- are they getting it? Maybe we need to all simplify it for adults in such a way. How else do you get kids to understand it besides bullet point it and simple as possible, what else are you using to try to get them to get it?
AZUZ: That's a good question. We have a daily discussion at cnnstudentnews.com. And those questions are designed -- if you're sitting around the dinner table with your student tonight, they've seen CNN Student News, or they've seen this show and they're looking to talk about this. The daily question around this time around is, what, if anything, would you want to see included in a health care reform plan?
It gives those students latitude if they want to say no, everything seems fine, we're covered, my family's ok. And there's other students who see changes that they think need to be made, they can talk about that and hopefully gain more insight into this whole debate.
NGUYEN: All right. Carl Azuz as always, we appreciate it with a little "Extra Credit" for us this morning. Thank you.
AZUZ: Thank you guys very much for having me.
HOLMES: Thanks so much Carl.
AZUZ: I'll see you next week.
HOLMES: We're not done talking about health care reform.
NGUYEN: No, not at all because for some people, it is change that they cannot believe in.
HOLMES: Yes, we're taking a look at older Americans here and why many of them are against the president's health care reforms.
NGUYEN: Also, a dramatic rescue from a burning building. Check this out. One man is hailed a hero, but another man is all but forgotten. We want you to hear his story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Great story here: New York man, right place at the right time, instant hero after he helped save a little boy from a burning building. That's a great story.
NGUYEN: Fantastic. But here's the catch. He's not the only hero in the story.
National correspondent Susan Candiotti caught up with the firefighter barely mentioned in the boy's rescue.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: These images of a Good Samaritan who climbed up a fire escape and took an injured boy from the arms of a fireman captured worldwide attention and made Horia Cretan (ph) an instant media hit.
HORIA CRETAN, RESCUED BOY FROM BURNING BUILDING: Will you marry me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was instantly turned into an American hero.
CANDIOTTI: An unexpected hero. A closer look at the video made us wonder about the other hero; that fireman who went inside a blazing inferno to snatch that 4-year-old boy; the firefighter who handed off the youngster to Cretan. There he is.
JIMMY SENK, FIREFIGHTER, FDNY: That's my helmet, coat. My pants are somewhere down here.
CANDIOTTI: They belong to firefighter Jimmy Senk.
SENK: Ever since I was a little kid I would just -- it just seemed like the right thing to do. I wanted to do something with my life that would mean something to me.
CANDIOTTI: He's been a firefighter for only five years, but his training paid off that day in the Bronx.
SENK: As soon as we came on the corner, there was heavy black smoking pushing out of all the windows.
CANDIOTTI: Senk saw the little boy's arms hanging outside the window, but couldn't use the fire escape; too many people were coming down it. His buddies got him up there on a ladder.
SENK: I smashed the window to get in and to the boy.
CANDIOTTI (on camera): What happened?
SENK: He disappeared into the black smoke.
CANDIOTTI: And you thought?
SENK: Oh, man, what am I going to do now? I have to get him, you know.
CANDIOTTI: And there you are in the ladder so...
SENK: So then I went to plan "B" and I jumped to the fire escape, messed (ph) up, went in, found him by his door.
CANDIOTTI: What condition was he?
SENK: He was unconscious, the body was limp, he was foaming black stuff at the mouth.
CANDIOTTI: What did you think?
SENK: I didn't think he was going to make it, to be honest.
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Senk handed the boy to the stranger on the fire escape. The boy survived. (on camera): Is your colleague a hero?
LT. ERNESTO TOREDO, FDNY: Oh, definitely. We're extremely proud of him.
SENK: The fact that he lived was like incredible because I wasn't sure if he was going to when I took him out.
Everybody has to do their job in order for everything to work right and for good things like this to happen. And everyone did that, thank God.
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): From firefighter to civilian, a chain reaction of heroes.
Susan Candiotti, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: He absolutely deserves to be recognized for that. I mean, he's the one that went inside that burning building.
HOLMES: But you know often times -- and we wouldn't have heard about this story probably if the video did not exist, unfortunately.
NGUYEN: That's true.
HOLMES: But still it shows those dramatic images that really brought people into the story.
(CROSS TALK)
NGUYEN: And things, too, that firefighters do on a daily basis to protect the people in their community. So hats off to you. That's fantastic.
So up next, will health care reform tarnish your golden years?
HOLMES: Seniors tell us how much or how little they're willing to sacrifice for the president's plan. We'll hear directly from them right after the break.
This is CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: A smooth way to wake up on a Sunday morning. And the First Couple waking up after celebrating their 17th anniversary last night; they had a quiet dinner at a place called the Blue Duck Tavern, a restaurant near Georgetown. And we're told that Mrs. Obama wore a backless, mid-length...
HOLMES: Is this it?
NGUYEN: She looks fantastic -- dress. And obviously, the president in a dark suit there as they head out for the celebration. HOLMES: Let's slow-mo it now, Betty.
NGUYEN: Yes. Why not? Got to love the media, right?
HOLMES: Oh, my goodness. Look at this here
NGUYEN: We're going to loop it one more time for you in case you missed it. Oh, look, we're on the road now with them. Before taking the motorcade with the first lady, they spent a little time quiet enjoying their 17th wedding anniversary. The Obamas were married on October 3rd in 1992 in Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.
HOLMES: There just seems something odd about playing Mary J. Blige' "Love without a Limit" and showing the White House. It just seems a little odd but it's their home as well.
NGUYEN: It is, it is. And they were celebrating something very special. Hey, 17 years, that's a big deal these days.
HOLMES: These days, yes. It is a big deal.
NGUYEN: Absolutely.
HOLMES: We're going to get back to Congress now. No love songs here. They're wrestling with health care reform. Polls show older Americans are among the least likely to support the president's vision on reform. And last month, the vice president visited a retirement community in suburban Washington in an effort to reassure seniors there.
CNN's Kate Bolduan went back to that community to talk about their concerns.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At 63, Phil Marks is healthy but he's had his share of health problems, with quadruple bypass surgery in 2000; Marks, like most senior citizens, has Medicare insurance.
(on camera): In general, are you happy with your care?
PHIL MARKS: I think we're satisfied.
Satisfied. I don't know that I would use the word happy.
BOLDUAN (voice-over): Living at Maryland's Leisure World, a community for seniors, these seniors say they're watching the health care debate very closely.
MARKS: In terms of the debate, everybody has an oar in the water on this.
BOLDUAN: The 65 and over population is a strong and active voting bloc. One that over all remains skeptical of president Obama's health care proposals. Concerns include fear of an increase in the cost of care, decrease in quality, and possibly a cut in Medicare benefits.
MARKS: And I'm concerned about my kids and my grandchildren and their ability to get good health care at a reasonable price.
PHYLLIS SHEERIN ROSS: I think my greatest concern at the present moment is that the insurance companies are driving your medical care.
BOLDUAN: 70-year-old Phyllis Ross supports the administration's reform plans and wants health insurance for every American. She was among the crowd when Vice President Biden visited Leisure World last month as part of a White House effort to push back against what Democrats calls scare tactics from the right.
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Nobody is going to mess with your benefits, no one. All we do is make it better for people on Medicare.
BOLDUAN: While this group agrees, some reform is needed speeches may not be enough to win them over.
(on camera): What do you need to hear from the administration to make you comfortable with the health care reform?
BOB STROMBERG: Specifics. They really are pretty vague about what's going to happen.
BOLDUAN: At 84 years old, Bob Stromberg says at least he and his wife, Joy, would consider higher payments to help foot the bill.
STROMBERG: We're willing to give up something. And I think many seniors are, but not too much. Not too much.
BOLDUAN: Evidence the administration has more hard work ahead, according to a recent CNN Opinion Research Corporation poll, a majority, 54 percent of Americans over the age of 65 oppose President Obama's reform plan.
Kate Bolduan, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: All right. Just about 90 seconds away from John King and "STATE OF THE UNION." Stick around for that.
NGUYEN: Yes. At the top of the hour, but right now we want to get you some of the latest news that we are following for you.
Let's take a quick look at our top stories. Earlier this morning, there were reports that poet Maya Angelou was taken to a Los Angeles hospital last night. But we've talked with her publicist, she says Maya Angelou she is fine and she never went to the hospital. So just clearing that up for you.
Also, eight U.S. service members and two afghan service members have been killed in eastern Afghanistan. Hundreds of Taliban militants surrounded two remote security outposts in Nuristan Province (ph), which is northeast of Kabul, and our correspondent in Kabul says some Afghan soldiers may have been captured by the Taliban. The American deaths come as President Obama considers sending more troops to Afghanistan.
We want to take you to southern California now, because 45-mile-an- hour winds -- well, that's not the picture right there. We're trying to get you that video up. Those winds have pushed a wildfire across the mountains and canyons of San Bernardino County. Three homes destroyed; 50 others evacuated. That fire is only about 5 percent contained.
And let's get you this video again, United Nations inspectors, what you just saw, will visit Iran's recently disclosed nuclear facility on October 25th. The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency made that announcement this morning in Tehran. He says it is necessary to send inspectors to ensure that the facility is, quote, "for peaceful purposes."
Now we want to take you to JOHN KING and "STATE OF THE UNION" which starts right now.
