Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Sunday Morning

Latest Developments in Egypt; Day Six of Protests in Egypt

Aired January 30, 2011 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: And now, let's reset other developments from Egypt this morning.

Fear replacing hope on the streets of Egypt. Citizens are arming themselves, not against the government, but against escaped prisoners and looters. A lot to tell you about this morning.

JONATHAN MANN, CNN ANCHOR: Tourists in the center of the storm. The U.S. now is moving to get Americans out of Egypt. Other countries are doing the same.

KAYE: It is early, and we are on it. From the CNN Center, this is CNN. It's January 30. Good morning, everyone. I'm Randi Kaye.

MANN: And from CNN International, I'm Jonathan Mann. We'd like to welcome our viewers worldwide to our coverage of "Egypt in Crisis."

KAYE: And now, let's get you caught up on this fast-developing story.

First of all, the U.S. State Department is getting ready to fly American citizens out of Egypt. Those flights could start tomorrow. Turkey and Saudi Arabia are also making flights available for their citizens.

What started as mostly peaceful protests have turned deadly in many cities across Egypt. We have learned at least 31 people are dead in Alexandria. In Cairo, several people killed in clashes between protesters and police at the Interior Ministry building. Now, the army is actually guarding that building.

We are also hearing reports of more than a dozen others being shot by officers at police stations outside of Cairo. The police have become a symbol of the government's power and target of protesters' anger. The police have seemingly abandoned the streets, and because the protests and the threat of violence, Egypt's stock exchange remained closed today. Banks throughout the capital city are also shut down as a precaution.

We are hearing reports of at least two deadly prison breaks around Cairo. More than 1,000 inmates are out on the streets. That has people on edge and asking the army to protect them.

CNN's Wolf Blitzer talked with the ambassador to the U.S. to get his take on the security situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: How does ha happen? A thousand prisoners escape from a prison outside of Cairo and are now running amuck?

SAMEH SHOURKY, EGYPTIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Well, certainly disturbing news. It's a demonstration of the degree of chaos and lack of security that has emanated from these events.

BLITZER: What happened to the police?

SHOURKY: It is unclear to what extent the police forces are still undertaking their responsibilities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANN: The army is to some extent filling the void left by the police. Tanks and soldiers deployed to key areas around the capital.

Our Ivan Watson is in Cairo joining us this morning.

Ivan, where have you been? And how much of the army have you seen?

IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's take a look at the scene on the banks of the Nile River, Jon, where you can see the perimeter (ph) that has been established by the tanks.

Now, yesterday at this time, there were thousands of excited demonstrators here chanting "Down with Mubarak" and allowed to come right up to the tanks. Today, we see that the army is being much more strict with the people and really limiting them in their movements here in the streets. (AUDIO BREAK) are chanting here, perhaps the first pro-Mubarak person I've seen, chanting "Long live Mubarak."

And I'm hearing cheering from down the street, is perhaps hidden by the trees here. Not sure what's happening right now, but gathering some attention of some of the bystanders here. The first sign of a gang here in front of the headquarters of state television.

Now, Jon, I'd like to mention to you a conversation I just had with an Egyptian/American, who said he was out in the streets overnight last night, Jon, with a kitchen knife in a local militia that had been formed by the men of his street to protect themselves from the looters and the robbers and the criminals that he says are threatening neighborhoods. He says that he has never seen this behavior in his country in all his life, people not trained as far as being military, not trained to be out, setting up barricades with appliances, protecting their homes and businesses, from people trying to take advantage of the disorder right now.

And he says in their own group, they were able to capture two men who were trying to break into a store in their neighborhood and basically making it up as they went along. For instance, making signs for themselves, with arm bands so that they can identify each other on every street corner, setting up signals so that they could call for reinforcements and help and that this is one way that people have been trying to protect their neighborhoods from the disorder that's breaking out and he says that he feels like he's being punished right now -- the lack of security out in the streets, the fact that there are prison breaks going on -- being punished by government right now is one man's accusation for the protests that have shaken a 30-year- old regime -- Jon.

MANN: CNN's Ivan Watson -- this isn't just about politics anymore. It's personal security and it sounds terrifying. Thanks you very much -- Randi.

KAYE: Egyptian opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei is hoping to play a part in the new government. ElBaradei is the former head of the U.N. International Atomic Energy Agency and a Nobel Peace Prize winner. But he is not that well-known on the streets of Cairo. He told "Reuters" that President Mubarak must resign in order for the demonstrations to stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMED ELBARADEI, OPPOSITION LEADER (via telephone): I will continue to participate in whatever it takes to make sure that the Mubarak regime should leave. That's the consensus here in Egypt in every part of society, that that -- this is a regime that is dictatorial, that has -- that has failed to deliver on social, economic, or political fronts. And that we need a new beginning, an Egypt that is free and that is democratic and we need to go through a transitional period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: ElBaradei added that he is disappointed in Washington's response to the civil unrest.

Social media has been a big part of the uprising in Egypt. A lot of folks are trying to tweet about it. Certainly, social media seems to be a little bit up and running out of Egypt. Facebook and other sites, they're using to try and share the word about demonstrations in Cairo and other cities throughout Egypt.

MANN: And as we try to report on the story from virtually every vantage point, let's check out how the social media are covering all of this.

Joining us from our international desk, Mohammed Jamjoom.

Jamjoom, what do you see?

MOHAMMED JAMJOOM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jonathan, even though the Internet is still effectively shut down in Egypt, we are seeing more activity in the social media front out of Cairo.

Let me take to you the Twitter trends map right now we've been monitoring. These are key words that are popular on Twitter. "Out of Cairo," and we'll see some of them, "Mubarak ministry," we see "looters," "Tahrir," "corpses." Also, @WaelAbbas, that's one of Egypt's most well-known bloggers. He's been tweeting regularly today.

This is one of his latest. He says, "Before I go offline, beware of scare tactics." He also says that in Arabic. And that's a sentiment that's really being echoed a lot from people that are tweeting out of Egypt today, "Beware of scare tactics."

Wael has also been putting up pictures via Twitter. There are some of the ones that are from yesterday he says. And if we can show some of these pictures, here's one, here's a burned out van with people on top. This is in Cairo. Here's also a man with a sign denouncing the government, also on top of a burnt out car. And lastly, a protester sitting on top of a tank.

Now, also, if we can go to another Twitter user -- this is someone who tweets a lot about Egypt. We don't know if they're in Cairo or in Egypt. But this in Arabic says that after a little while, there's going to be a big protest on the corner of Alexandria, and that the protestors that are going to be there have said that they are not going to be going back to their houses today until the government, the ruling party is gone. And that's final.

MANN: Mohammed, let me ask you a question by what you're seeing, because I'm really struck by something. This has been going on six days now, and protests are going on. There have been different developments. People are now afraid about the security situation. One thing we haven't seen or at least I haven't seen is a single face or single name popping up for who Egyptians would like to see actually run their country.

Is there a candidate? Is there a personality? Is there anybody that people are talking about to take Hosni Mubarak's place if, indeed, he's toppled?

JAMJOOM: The simple answer to that right now is, no, there is not. There's a lot of disarray. What you're seeing , what's really unifying the protesters and what you're seeing also on social media, people just want this government gone. There are so many tweets from people inside and outside of Egypt that are saying, what we want most of all, we want this government gone. We want Mubarak out.

And the fact that there is no real person that is -- that people are rallying behind to take over, that's what's concerning regional allies and also allies like the U.S. the most. They're worried, if Mubarak goes, who is going to replace him? There are some candidates that have been discussed, even people like Mohammed ElBaradei who's back in Cairo right now. But there is no one unifying person who this movement is getting behind, and that's concerning people the most -- Jonathan.

KAYE: And I'm also curious, what about -- there are so many tweets in English, so many coming in in Arabic -- does anything strike you? Is there a difference between the tone? Are you finding support for the protesters in Egypt?

JAMJOOM: Oh, absolutely, Randi. There's so much support from across the Arab world, even in places like Saudi Arabia. I was seeing tweets from people in Saudi Arabia that were saying that they were supporting the people in Egypt. But even going further than that, they were saying what you heard from the king of Saudi Arabia yesterday does not represent the sentiment of the people in Saudi Arabia. And what that means is that people in Saudi Arabia who are behind the movement in Egypt are saying that what the king said yesterday, the king of Saudi Arabia said yesterday, that he was behind Hosni Mubarak and that he blamed infiltrators in Egypt for the disruption that was going on. The Saudis are saying, don't take that message as what the street in Saudi Arabia is saying. We want the Egyptian people to know that we are behind them.

And we're seeing similar sentiments being echoed out of Yemen and other places in the Middle East. And it's fascinating to see this -- Randi.

MANN: Mohammed Jamjoom, live from the CNN newsroom, thanks very much.

RANDI: Thank you.

The protests erupting in Egypt could have an effect on the region's financial picture. Up next, we're headed live to London to find out if turmoil on the streets could mean market chaos.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's like the light at the end of the tunnel, you know? It's something, you know, we've always wanted. We've always hoping for. So, it can't come soon enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Political in stability, never a good thing for the markets and business.

MANN: Never a good thing for ordinary people either. If you're asking for gas in Cairo today, chances are the gas stations are running out. If you're looking for cash, the bank machines are broken into, banks are closed.

It's the first day of the workweek in Egypt. But not a lot of are people working. There's just too much chaos there.

CNN's Jim Boulden live in London with the financial angle of all of this.

Good morning, Jim.

JIM BOULDEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Jonathan.

Yes, this is the first day of the workweek and would you normally expect Egyptian stock markets to be opened. It was closed for the day. So, we can't get a reaction from the market. So, Egyptian stocks were down some 16 percent last week.

And let's look at some of the others in the region. There was a huge effect in the stock markets. We saw Dubai down more than 4 percent; Amman down 2.3 percent; Kuwait down 1.7 percent.

Saudi down strongly on Saturday. It has rebounded today. And it's still trading in this hour.

Most other stock markets have already closed for the normal work day on Sunday.

What's interesting about Saudi Arabia is that because we saw an oil price spike in New York on Friday, up nearly $4, getting close to the $90 a barrel, there is some thought that Saudi stocks could do a bit better with the higher oil price. So, that's a counter balance there.

There were worries yesterday, of course, and worries maybe unfounded that we could see some disruption in the Suez Canal and that could affect the amount of oil that goes through there. Egypt is not a player in the oil markets. But, of course, the Suez Canal is.

And we saw on Friday, big falls on the Dow and NASDAQ. NASDAQ down nearly 2 percent. So, it's not just affecting the Middle East. Have to wait a few more hours until we see how the rest of Asia opens up and it would be very interesting to see what oil does in Asia and, of course, tomorrow here in the U.K. and New York -- guys.

MANN: Is Egypt a particular big financial center for the region, or is it simply that investors are nervous about instability? It's the politics that scares them.

BOULDEN: There's two things going on. You see instability in general worries. And people put money in those emerging marks, and they very quickly can take the money out of there.

But if you look at something like Al Arabia, it's a low-cost airline, its shares were down nearly 10 percent. DP World based in the Gulf, down nearly 10 percent as well because they have operations in Egypt. So, that affects, you see some strong falls if you have Egypt businesses.

But in the region, generally, of course, stock markets have been doing very well over the last year or so. And so, some people might just be thinking it's time to move money out of these areas because of the instability after a very good run. So, we'll have to see whether we see it bouncing next week, especially on Wall Street, because that money is going to go somewhere.

MANN: Jim Boulden, watching the markets for us from London -- thanks very much.

One question now: what's at stake for the United States? We'll head to Washington next for some answers. Plus, what does the uprising in Egypt mean for Israel? Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: We are seeing signs of solidarity with the anti-government protesters in Egypt. MANN: You can understand, there are rallies popping up all across the United States, though smaller in size than the Egypt demonstrations, the message seems to be the same.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down, down with Mubarak!

CROWD: Down, down with Mubarak!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down, down with Mubarak!

CROWD: Down, down, with Mubarak! Go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANN: That sentiment isn't limited to San Francisco. We heard similar calls from change in Egypt in U.S. cities large and small. Toledo, Ohio, for example.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Hey, hey, ho, ho. Hosni Mubarak has to go!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANN: A similar demonstration in Atlanta yesterday, outside our own headquarters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Mubarak must go! Mubarak must go!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANN: If you -- if you look closely, or talk to some of these people, not all of Egyptian descent. And, in fact, some of the demonstrators are taking issue not just with Egyptian government, but with current U.S. policy and financial support for the Mubarak regime, which receives more than $1 billion annually in aid from the United States.

KAYE: So, does this put pressure on the U.S. to drop support for the Mubarak regime? So far, the Obama administration seems to hedging its bets.

CNN's Elise Labott joins us from Washington.

Elise, we're hearing a lot this morning that the U.S. embassy in Cairo, now stepping in to help U.S. citizens and help them get flights out of the country, possibly even arranging those for Monday. What more can you tell us about that?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Randi. Well, over the last few days, there have been a lot of discussions at the State Department, that there is a concern with all the chaos in the country, that the Egyptian government, the security services and military really don't have the capacity right now to protect American citizens. And so, they are -- what the State Department and embassy is doing, they are allowing nonemergency personnel, noncore personnel and their families to leave the country and also helping evacuate Americans on flights to safe havens in Europe.

Of course, it's voluntary. But the State Department is saying the situation is very volatile and they really are urging Americans to leave and are willing to help them do so.

KAYE: And so much at stake here for the U.S. and for many other countries if Mubarak leaves and if he leaves power. What do you expect will be the next step for the United States here?

LABOTT: Well, I think they are walking a very tightrope right now, wanting to show support for the aspirations and democracy of the protesters, but also, you got to consider that Egypt is a very important ally. Mubarak is a very important ally. And so, they really don't want to do anything right now to suggest that he leave.

I think they're going to give him a few days to see if he really is going to implement some of these changes that he promised to do. They are looking for a national dialogue. They are looking for some serious programs on job creation.

I think they're going to give him a few days to see what happens, and if not, I think you're going to -- the U.S. is going to raise its rhetoric. You might start hearing some talk about transformation, about elections, about succession -- those types of issues.

Secretary Clinton is going to be on all of the Sunday talk shows here in the United States. Not expecting real dramatic language on what she's changing in the U.S. position that President Obama laid out the other day. But I do think over the next couple of days, you could see a ramping up of U.S. pressure on the Egyptian government to make some changes.

KAYE: And is the best way to do that threatening to pull U.S. aid to Egypt?

LABOTT: Well, certainly I think the U.S. has a lot of leverage in terms of aid. But most of that aid is military. It's really for U.S. security issues in the region, and I think that the economic assistance to the government is really minimal.

But I do think that just the U.S. saying such things as you should talk about free and fair elections. You should talk about a transformation. We heard the Europeans yesterday, the leaders of France, Germany, and Britain, start talking about elections and transformation.

When the United States says something like that, that's emboldening the protesters. That's emboldening the movement. And when I think you start to hear something like that from the United States, that Mubarak knows that his support from the United States is up and it's time to go. I think they're going to give him a few more days, but I think patience is really wearing out and you see everything that's going on on the streets right now, the U.S. under a lot of pressure to show support for the things that it says that it stands for -- democracy, human rights, American values -- that the Egyptians are looking for Americans to show they mean it, Randi.

KAYE: Elise Labott in Washington -- thank you.

MANN: A quick note to add to all of that. This is something Elise was telling us before she came on camera. If you are in Egypt, if you have a loved one in Egypt, go to travel.state.gov. There's also a phone number, 888-407-4747 for information about how you or your loved one can get out of Egypt, because the U.S. government, is one of many governments, trying very hard to make that happen.

Well, also, as you can imagine, Egypt's neighbor, Israel is watching closely what's happening next door. We're live in Jerusalem next.

KAYE: And take a look at this. It's just one example of what has the protesters in an uproar. An Egyptian city named "Garbage City." You'll find out why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back to our continuing coverage of the turmoil in Egypt as day six of the crisis unfolds.

MANN: The anti-government protests there not only threaten the regime of President Hosni Mubarak, but some fear they could also jeopardize a long-standing peace.

(VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Israeli officials are treading lightly and saying little about the civil insurrection in neighboring Egypt and how it may impact Israel's peace treaty with Egypt brokered back in 1979.

CNN's Jerusalem bureau chief, Kevin Flower, is live in Jerusalem.

Kevin, good morning to you.

I'm wondering about the Israeli military this morning. Is it already on high alert along the border?

KEVIN FLOWER, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Randi, the Israeli military is not saying anything to that effect. But needless to say, they would be on high alert. They would be monitoring events closely in the Sinai Peninsula.

But what we did hear today, this morning, we did finally hear from the Israeli government, specifically the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who is speaking to his full cabinet. And he made the first public comments in the last number of days about the unrest, the protests that are going on in Egypt. This is what he had to say. He said, "We are anxiously monitoring what is happening in Egypt and elsewhere in the region." He went on to say, "Our efforts are designed to continue and maintain stability and security in our region. I remind you that peace between Egypt and Israel has endured for over three decades." And, of course, he said that at this time, he must show maximum responsibility and restraint.

So, this is a very cautious and calculated statement from the Israeli government. There are huge concerns here about what is going on in Egypt and what government may come in the future if Hosni Mubarak is indeed forced from power.

Now, one Israeli -- a former Israeli diplomat we spoke to today sort of summed up concerns from the Israeli side. And he told us that democracy can only be created if you have the right institutions and the right society to absorb this way of rule.

And the view from Israel is that Egypt is probably not ready for that. Be that true or not, that is an Israeli view here. They want to see a stable government in Egypt, regardless of whether it's a democracy, an autocracy.

In terms of Israel security, the Egyptian government that's been in place for the last 30 years has been a very good one. The peace has been maintained and that is what they are looking to in the future and extreme concerns about what's coming forward, Randi.

KAYE: It certainly seems as though these protests, though, are without a leader. Any names tossed around in Israel as far as who Israel would like to step in if Mubarak would step down?

FLOWER: Well, you know, people you speak to really aren't even getting into that level of detail. Now, of course, the regime in Egypt announced the appointment of Omar Suleiman. He is someone certainly Israelis are very familiar with, someone they communicated with for years on security matters.

But people here know that the events are moving so quickly in Egypt that, you know, Omar Suleiman may or may not be a force going forward. They just don't know. There is a lot of uncertainty here about what's coming next.

So, really what we're seeing is: caution, caution, caution.

MANN: Kevin, it's Jon Mann in Atlanta. And I've got a question about Suleiman and about Mubarak and about the Israelis view of this. The Israelis know these guys better than anyone in the world and the big question everyone is asking, has to be asking right now is: how long and how hard is Hosni Mubarak going to hang on?

What's the sense there? Do they see Mubarak as a man who will continue in power even if the cost to him and to his country, the cost in blood, human blood, rises?

FLOWER: Well, I think there are a lot of Israelis who would hope that he holds onto power. But, again, it's moving so quickly. Just a few days ago, Israeli officials, you know, sort of, like, privately and Israeli analysts were saying that they fully expected this regime to hold on. That Hosni Mubarak, despite the protests, that the government would remain in place, that it would remain a stable government, that that was the expectation.

But just in the past 48 hours, things have moved so quickly that you're not necessarily hearing that anymore. Now you're hearing privately a lot more concerns about what's happening. And what one person in foreign policy circles told me is heartening, from the Israeli side at least, is that when they're watching these protests, these mass protests, what they're not seeing is they're not seeing Israeli flags being burned. They're not seeing chants of "Death to Israel." Now, that is certainly an encouraging sign for the Israeli government, who does not want to -- is fearful about an Islamist revival in Egypt, Jonathan.

MANN: Kevin Flower, our bureau chief in Jerusalem, thanks very much.

KAYE: As the pressure mounts for President Mubarak to step down, there's a lot of speculation about who would replace him.

MANN: A few names next, as we move on with our special coverage. Plus, the protests yet another example of how technology has changed the way we see our world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)