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CNN Sunday Morning
Deadline for Deal Looming; Verdict in Hikers' Spying Case
Aired July 31, 2011 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you all.
A day closer to default, and still, no deal. That clock continues to tick. And would you believe that yesterday, the tone of the debate took a bit of a nasty turn. But the tone now seems to have changed overnight with more talk of compromise. The very latest coming up in seconds.
Also this morning, we are standing by for news about two American hikers held in Iran for the past two years. They may -- may -- be closer to freedom today.
Also, you may not know the history of the Montford Point Marines ion their place in history. You will know it this morning. You will hear from them, the men who integrated the Marines.
Hello to you all. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm T.J. Holmes. Thank you for spending part of your weekend here with us.
So, let me tell you about three important deadlines that we are keeping an eye on today in this debt debate. The first is this afternoon, 1:00 Eastern Time. That is when a vote is scheduled in the Senate on Majority Leader Harry Reid's plan. That's the vote that was supposed to take place overnight but it was delayed late into the evening.
Listen to the Senate majority leader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: I have spoken to the White House quite a few times this evening and asked me to give everyone as much time as possible to reach an agreement, if one can be reached.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: I'm not interested to score any political points. I'm interested in getting an outcome for the American people. And the only way that can be done is with the president of the United States. And we're going to continue to work on that, and get this problem solved, and let everybody in the country know that we're not going to default for the first time in our history. That's how I'm going to spend my time until we get that out come.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
HOLMES: OK. So, 1:00 Eastern, that vote, that's the first thing we're keeping an eye on. The second thing we're keeping an eye on, another deadline if you will, 8:00 Eastern Time. That is when the Asian markets open, and that is relevant.
You remember, the U.S. stock market had its worst week last week in more than a year. So, what happens in Asia today could set the tone for what could be another rough week on Wall Street.
Also, the last deadline we are keeping an eye on is the one we've been keeping an eye for quite sometime now, and that is Tuesday. That is when the federal government says it will not have enough money to meet all of this country's obligations for the month of August, and it could lead to possible default. That is the big one we are keeping an eye on.
We want to hear from people on both sides on the aisle. Interesting day, again, yesterday on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
SEN. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON (R), TEXAS: I do think if we can come together on real cuts, which I believe there has been a groundwork laid to do that every one -- or not every one, but certainly 90 percent of the Senate and the House, would support lifting the debt ceiling, as long as there are cuts commensurate with that.
SEN. MARK WARNER (D), VIRGINIA: We ought to get the folks in the room and lock the door and nobody leaves until these things are worked through. But there's been so much back and forth. There seems to be -- yes, real challenge.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
HOLMES: All right. Let me bring in our Athena Jones at the White House and Joe Johns out on the Capitol Hill, up in Washington, keeping an eye on things there.
Y'all just heard the senator there say, why don't we just get the room, lock ourselves into a room and wait and just not leave until we get this done?
Athena, any plans for that today?
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, there are no meetings on the public schedule. But, you know, this is exactly where we started yesterday. There were no meetings on the president's schedule either. But, of course, a meeting happened with House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. We also know that the president spoke with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, and that Mitch McConnell spoke several times with Vice President Joe Biden.
So, we know that these sorts of talks are going to continue and the White House has said al along that the president is standing ready to take any role he needs to take to reach this compromise. And so, if they decide that another meeting will bring a breakthrough, that meeting will happen.
But one thing that's interesting to note this morning is that I heard from a senior administration official here who cautioned us on the details that are trickling out about this so-called "tentative framework," really saying that it is just a tentative framework, he said there's no deal. They don't know how close they are to a deal because there are still several major details being discussed which is, of course, in line with some of what Senator Harry Reid has said, which is that there's still a distance to go to really reach this final compromise, T.J.
HOLMES: All right. Joe, they're telling us to be careful about some of these details coming out, this framework. But what is the framework as we know it so far, Joe?
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, and the best we can tell, this is what the president, the vice president apparently have been talking mostly to the Senate Republicans about. It would include extending the borrowing authority of the United States, that's the debt limit, into 2013, which would avoid revisiting this issue in the middle of the campaign. Everybody is a bit concerned about that.
And the thing we're told to avoid most is really just talking about the numbers that are involved in this. So, we're going to stay away from that.
But there are a few other ideas that would be an immediate debt limit increase that would be tied to some pretty healthy numbers in cutting the spending of government agencies over the next 10 years. And there would also be a special congressional committee that finds savings that sort of triggers a second round of cuts down the road.
Those are the broad outlines and things that have been discussed for sometime between Democrats, Republicans, and the White House. But these are very general ideas, as you can see, T.J., and people are telling us to sort of stay away from numbers that have been floated.
HOLMES: All right. Joe, Athena, thank you both.
Again, if you all get more information, we know it's early and it's on a Sunday, but we know they are working. If you all get anything, we need to know on, by all means, let us know -- we'll get you right back in here. Thanks to you both.
Six minutes past the hour now.
To our viewers, coming up in about 55 minutes, you can hear from Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION." He's sitting down with our Gloria Borger. She's in today for Candy Crowley. And Gloria will join us live in just a few minutes for a preview of her chat with McConnell and also Democratic Senator Charles Schumer.
Also tonight at 9:00 Eastern, you can join our Wolf Blitzer and Don Lemon. They are breaking down some of the obstacles and the options still left at this late hour. Don't miss, "Get It Done: Count down to Debt Crisis." That's tonight, at 9:00 p.m. right here on CNN.
Also, we could soon learn the fate of the two American hikers held in Iran for the past two years. Josh Fattal and Shane Bauer were back in a Tehran courtroom today. Iranian state news is reporting a verdict in their trial on charges of spying has been reached, and the verdict will be announced soon.
Fatal and Bauer, along with Bauer's fiancee, Sarah Shourd, were hiking in northern Iraq, along the border of Iran, when they were arrested two years ago. Iranian police say the three illegally crossed into Iran. They were charged with spying. Shourd was released last fall for medical reasons.
Again, a developing story this morning, there are high hopes, at least from the families of these two American hikers and also from their attorneys, that maybe we could be getting closer to their freedom, but we are standing for that and will that bring to you as soon as we get word.
We'll stay in Iran now, where a last-minute pardon has spared one man the retaliatory eye-for-an-eye sentence. Iran state media reporting that that woman, whose name is Ameneh Bahrami, she has changed her mind and she is behind this decision now. It was seven years ago. She was blinded with a man threw acid in her face. Well, after being convicted, her attacker was to suffer the same fate in accordance with Islamic law.
But today, minutes before he was to have acid poured into his eyes, Bahrami asked for the punishment to be stopped. This case has received attention around the world that may or may not have played apart in her decision.
All right. We have been talking a lot the debt debate and the debt ceiling. What exactly does that mean for you and me?
Well, yes, a possible downgrade in America's credit rating that could certainly impact us all. Hopefully, lawmakers will get this done. We'll have more on that, how it would affect you.
But let us say good morning to Reynolds Wolf right now.
Hello there, kind sir.
REYNOLDS WOLF, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Good morning there, good sir.
We've got a storm on the horizon, possibly one by the name of Emily. Emily, a big potential, fifth named storm in the Atlantis season.
We've covered Don yesterday. Don being a little bit of a dud that struck Texas. They needed the rain, they didn't get it. Emily might be a different story. We'll talk about coming up in just a moments.
You're watching CNN SUNDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Twelve minutes past the hour. Let's say good morning once again to Reynolds Wolf.
You are going to be introducing us to Emily at some point?
WOLF: Possibly.
HOLMES: All right.
WOLF: Possibly. Not yet.
(INAUDIBLE) storm, this is the time of the year we often see develop right at the Atlantic, especially the intertropical converge zone, where we have the air converging and we have the potential of this storm you see right here being named Emily. But there's one thing that (INAUDIBLE) and O'Connor are watching a few minutes ago, is that we see a little bit of development right here near the Leeward Islands and the Windward Islands.
Occasionally, when you have some convection ahead of a possibly blooming tropical system, it can sap the energy from other places that might potential develop. So, this could be a big player in what happens with the possible Emily. So, we'll keep a very sharp eye on that.
Regardless, it looks it's Leeward or Windward Islands, easy for me to say, you're going to definitely get some rain, some cloud cover, perhaps even into Puerto Rica in the coming hours.
Now, in terms of this storm system potentially having an affect on the United States, it's still way to early to tell. We'll watch it for you very carefully and, of course, give you the updates.
I can update you that the heat is back in full force from many places, Kansas City, it has been just a miserable summer for you, 96 degrees; 104 in Dallas, where the summer will seem as though it will never end. In Houston, also 99 degrees. You can throw Austin and San Antonio into the mix, a very warm, very muggy day for you.
For El Paso, 96; 98 in Billings, 87 in Salt Lake City, 69 in San Francisco, 80 in Portland. Back out east, we go with Boston and New York, mainly into the 80s, 96 in Washington and 95 in Atlanta.
Very quickly as we wrap things up, look for a chance of some severe storms to pop up across in the Northern plains, maybe some splash and showers towards the Four Corners and into the Southeast.
That is a snapshot in your forecast. OK, T.J., your turn.
HOLMES: Reynie, appreciate you as always, buddy. Thanks so much.
WOLF: You bet. HOLMES: And we want to bring in our buddy from HLN Sports, Joe Carter.
Always good to have you.
JOE CARTER, HLN SPORTS: Good to be here.
HOLMES: You know, somebody says I want to make you the highest paid player, or highest paid professional in your profession, and you say no. You know, you don't hear that every day.
CARTER: You don't. No. But this is coming from a guy who is above the rest of the league when it comes to moral standards, I believe. He has been.
HOLMES: He has been.
CARTER: He has been in the past. We're talking about Peyton Manning.
HOLMES: Yes.
CARTER: He basically just signed a new deal for less money to basically improve his team. Now, he did take a pay cut.
We should all be fortunate to take a pay cut but still make $18 million a year. But the Colts and Peyton just agreed to a deal worth $90 million. That breaks down to $18 million a season.
Now, the Colts owner said publicly that he was willing to pay Peyton around $25 million a year, which would have made him the highest paid player in the NFL. Manning said hold on to some of that money, do go with the money, we can sign better players, we can resign the good players we already have. So, the new deal that's in place, the $18 million a year, is equal to what Tom Brady makes per year for the Patriots.
But, you know, of course, we did a little digging. We wanted to see, OK, how much does he make on the field. How much does he make off the field.
HOLMES: Oh, yes.
CARTER: Manning brings home $38 million with salary and endorsements. Brady brings home $30 million with salary and endorsements. But, you know, Brady's wife brings home a lot more than Peyton's wife brings home.
So, we had to give it to the Brady household. They win the financial war.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: That's it. But, you know, you don't see this everyday. You got guys out there talking about holding out and doing all these things for this contract and he is doing it for the better of the team, he wants to win a Super Bowl, of course. This could help him in the end.
CARTER: You know, that's the thing. This time of the year, you always see players holding out to that bigger paycheck and for him to sign a deal on time, and, for, you know, basically making him among the highest paid -- among the highest paid quarterbacks says a lot about his character, instead of being the highest paid player.
HOLMES: That's very cool.
You always tell you -- got some good video for us. How does this one rank? You're about to show us.
CARTER: This is much better than yesterday's tractor rodeo video, OK? You know, you see people go to professional baseball games with gloves.
HOLMES: There's a reason for that.
CARTER: There's a definitely a reason for that. A fan in the Yankees game did not bring his glove and was obviously looking at something other than the game, because he took a foul ball right in the kisser. I mean, watch the replay -- it hits him square in the face, and the result, a bloody nose
You know, it's funny because a fan back in June was on the cell phone, got hit with the foul ball in that same location. So, a reminder, if you're getting tickets to that -- in that location, bring a glove, wear a helmet, pay attention.
HOLMES: He looked he was -- I don't know what -- but it looked like, it didn't look like h was looking --
CARTER: I think somebody said, foul ball, and he looked and didn't know which direction, you know, where the height it was coming, maybe the sun gotten in his eye, I don't know. But definitely embarrassing.
HOLMES: Yes. Better than the tractor video yesterday.
CARTER: I told you that. We won't bring that kind of video back around again.
HOLMES: Good stuff, Joe Carter. Appreciate you as always, HLN Sports. Thanks so much, buddy.
We're at 17 minutes past the hour now.
A possible downgrade of the U.S. credit rating -- yes, bad for the U.S., but also bad for you. We'll explain.
Stay with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: We're 19 minutes past the hour. We're keeping an eye on that clock right now. It continues to count down. A lot of people didn't think it would get down to what it's gotten down. But it has.
We are less than two days away now from the day that the U.S. might not be able to pay all of its bills and a possible default. That will be the first time in U.S. history that the U.S. defaulted on his obligations.
Now, negotiations continue. They are under way. It's certainly been underway this weekend.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says there's still a chance, a distance, if you will, a distance that has to be reached here. We got a ways to go. The Senate is set to convene today at noon Eastern, with a possible key procedural vote due at 1:00 Eastern Time.
Now, one thing you've heard over and over and over is that if no deal is reached, the country's credit rating could be downgraded.
Our Mary Snow now takes a look at what exactly that means for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Never before has the U.S. had its credit rating downgraded, so it's difficult to know quantify the impact. But one immediate impact would be higher borrowing cost and that would affect everybody.
(voice over): On Capitol Hill, officials from credit rating agencies fielded questions but gave no direct answers about whether they'd downgrade the U.S. government's stellar credit rating. At the same time, a senior government bank examiner told lawmakers there's reason to worry.
REP. BRAD MILLER, (D) NORTH CAROLINA: Am I right to worry that this could be real bad, if our debt was downgraded?
DAVID WILSON, OFFICE OF THE COMPTROLLER OF THE CURRENCY: You know, it's hard to measure, but I think you're right to worry. I mean, it could happen. It could be a big thing.
SNOW: Just how big is a mystery, since the downgrade of the U.S.'s AAA rating, the highest there is, would be unprecedented.
(on camera): Big picture, one economist estimates that a credit downgrade could eventually cost the U.S. government $100 billion a year in extra borrowing costs, over the long-term. Now, consumers would also pay.
If interest rates --
(END VIDEOTAPE) HOLMES: We will get back to that in a moment. But we wanted to bring you some breaking developments. We've been following the story all morning. The verdict in the spying trial of two Americans that have been held for three -- excuse me, two years now.
You will remember the story. Josh Fattal and Shane Bauer, along with Bauer's fiancee, Sarah Shourd, we're hiking in northern Iraq, along the border of Iran, when they were arrested two years ago. Iran said the there illegally crossed into Iran, charged them with spying.
Well, Shourd was released last September. But Fattal and Bauer remained in prison. And they had a day -- their day -- in court in Tehran.
And now, Shirzad Bozorgmehr is on the line with me now from Tehran.
Shirzad, we are told there has been a verdict, but do we know what it is yet?
SHIRZAD BOZORGMEHR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): We do not know what the verdict is, but the court had the last session and within one week, they will issue the verdict. And according to the attorney for Fattal and Bauer that I just talked to, if the verdict is guilty but the sentence is about two years, which is the same time that they have served behind bars right now, he was very hopeful that would be the case and that they would be actually released.
HOLMES: And, Shirzad, help us here, because we have been -- certainly, in some outlets and some places have been reporting that being convicted of spying is actually punishable by death.
So, why does the attorney believe that a sentence of two years would be handed down by this court?
BOZORGMEHR: As far as I know, the charge of spying does not necessarily carry a death penalty. It could, but it's not necessarily so.
And the reason that the lawyer is hopeful is, as I explained, is that they actually are finding them innocent is out of the question since they have been behind bars for two years. So, the best we could hope for is to -- for the court to find them guilty either of one charge or both charges, and give them two years that they've already spent in jail.
HOLMES: And, Shirzad, can you tell us as well, and maybe just to help us on our understanding of how just the court system might work, or this is a special case, why a week? Why are we waiting -- have to wait a week before that verdict is released?
BOZORGMEHR: This is the Iranian law that the court can have up to a week to issue it's final verdict. It's not just this case.
HOLMES: What do we know -- BOZORGMEHR: It could happen anytime. It could happen right now. It could happen in a day. It could happen in a week. But not more than a week.
HOLMES: Up to a week. OK.
And were the two men, Shirzad, the men, Shane Bauer and Josh Fattal, were they in court today? And also, how do -- I don't know if you were in the court necessarily, but from at least what their attorney is telling you, maybe, what kind of condition, what kind of mood, quite frankly, are they in right now? Are they hopeful as well?
BOZORGMEHR: Well, according to the attorney, Mr. Shafii, both were present at court, both Fattal and Bauer, and he said, physically, they look good. I asked them about their mental state, and he said, while I was talking to them and I was with them, their mental state seemed to be normal to me.
But he said a courtroom is not a place to assess anyone's mental case.
HOLMES: And, Shirzad, one more thing to you here, whenever that verdict is read, and let's say -- or released I should say, and let's say it's guilty and they are going to be released, how quickly could this all happen? How quickly can they be released?
BOZORGMEHR: Again, within one week. As soon as -- I asked the attorney, according to him, he said, as soon as the verdict is in, and if it is favorable the way we hope that it would be, then they can be released immediately or within one week. You know, it takes a week. It could take up to a week but it could be immediate as well.
HOLMES: All right. Shirzad, who has been there covering this case for us -- Shirzad, we appreciate you hopping on the line for us. Some important developments that many in this country have been waiting to hear, and certainly, the family and friends of these two men waiting to hear.
But Shane Bauer and Josh Fattal are getting their day in court.
These two hikers, two Americans -- you remember this story. It actually was two years to the day now that they were picked up by Iranian authorities, on the border with Iraq, accused of spying, said that they accidentally crossed into the border into Iran. At least that's what the hikers said. The government said, no, they were spying. But they have been held for the past two years.
The woman they were with, Sarah Shourd, released in September for medical reasons. But these two are still there, getting their day in court today. And now, a verdict has been reached, we're told, in their spying case.
We don't know that verdict just yet. You just heard our reporter telling us there. This could come out up within a week, up to a week is what they have, the time frame for releasing that verdict. It could happen at any minute. It could happen tomorrow or the day after that, we just don't know.
But the attorney for the two men is telling us, telling CNN, that he is hopeful that there will be a favorable verdict. Even if they are found guilty at this point, the attorney believes that they have served their time -- the two years that they have been in prison. So, even if it's a guilty verdict, the attorney believes the men could be released and as soon as that verdict is read, if it's favorable, they would be released immediately, a two-year ordeal could, could -- I emphasize could -- could be close to becoming over for the family and friends and certainly, the women themselves.
But, again, breaking developments on this story as we get more. And if that verdict happens to come out at any moment, we will certainly bring that to you.
It's 26 minutes past the hour. We're going to take a quick break here. I'm right back. Stay with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, we're coming up at the bottom of the hour now. And a lot of people are fired about this debt ceiling debate, including you and you letting us know about it. Our iReporters making their voices heard on the Web.
Listen to some of these opinions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
BRETT BAYNE: This is your country's darkest hour. It's time to end tax breaks for millionaires and big oil companies. It's time to stop rushing to their defense and come to our rescue. It's time the super wealthy were made part of our national debt reduction program.
It's simple. The time for compromise was weeks ago. Do your jobs, Congress.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's get out of this mess that we're in regardless of who got us here and how it happened. We've never defaulted on a loan. Let's not start now. Let's not shipwreck this country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The problem is we have politicians who designed plans and they have the other side who votes against the plan. It doesn't matter what is in the plan. Each politician wants to be able to say that their plan prevailed.
UNIDENTIIFED MALE: How can this happen? How can we elect, quote, "career politicians," unquote, that have done nothing to prevent this situation? Why are they so stupid and refuse to realize that they cannot keep spending money?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am with the majority of the Americans that work hard to repay what we borrowed. I am not defaulting on the debts I've incurred. I'm not walking away from our obligations. We're using a strict budget to make sure our payments are met and that we'll be cleared of debt very soon. I expect my government to do the same.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Raising the debt ceiling should be very simple, a one sentence statement that says it's now this amount rather than that amount. The way that we correct our deficit and our debt is through a balanced approach and most recognize this.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
HOLMES: All right. Well, we're coming up on the bottom of the hour. I want you to stick around for our "Faces of Faith." A lot of people are asking, what should be cut from the budget? But here is a question for you this morning, what would Jesus cut?
That's coming up in our "Faces of Faith."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, we're just past the bottom of the hour on this CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I'm T.J. Holmes. Thank you for spending part of your day here with us.
And we are keeping a close eye on Washington, D.C. That debt ceiling debate, the delay of a key procedural vote actually seems to be sparking some confidence in the possible deal getting down.
The Senate was supposed to vote late last night to end debate on the plan from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. But they tabled that vote while negotiations on modifying the plan gained some steam. The vote is now scheduled for 1:00 Eastern today.
The White House also got involved in the discussions yesterday; the President and Vice President speaking with leaders from both parties.
Be sure to stay here with CNN throughout the day. We will have continuing coverage of this countdown to that debt deadline.
Well, a Christian group is using an advertising campaign to raise awareness about how poor people could be affected by spending cuts at the center of the debt ceiling debate. Jim Wallis, President and CEO of Sojourners, the ministry group behind the ads joins me live from Washington D.C. to discuss the group's mission.
Sir, good morning to you and I want to start by listening to, letting you listen and let our viewers listen to part of one of your campaign ads that's running on Christian radio in several states. Let's listen to it now and ask you about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Book of Proverbs teaches that where there is no leadership a nation falls and the poor are shunned while the rich have many friends.
Sadly Congress has failed to heed these biblical warnings and our own Representative Boehner is risking the health of our economy if America defaults on its debts, all to protect tax cuts for the rich and powerful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And so Jim, let me bring you back in here. Can it be a financial issue and a moral issue at the same time?
JIM WALLIS, PRESIDENT & CEO, SOJOURNERS: Well, it certainly -- it certainly is, T.J. A circle of protection has formed. It's more than Sojourners, the Catholic bishops and National Association of Evangelicals. We were all coming together to say that if you are protecting tax loopholes, corporate tax loopholes for the rich while shredding the safety net for the poor that is a moral issue, that's a religious issue.
You have been saying how the world is watching, and markets are watching and the media is watching. We believe God is watching this debate, too, and God is looking for how the poor and most vulnerable are going to be treated in any final deal here.
HOLMES: Well sir, you call this, you say the budget is a moral document. Well, for those folks --
(CROSSTALK)
WALLIS: Absolutely.
HOLMES: -- who may not keep that in mind, some of those legislators, who might be wanting to keep in some of those tax loopholes, who -- like you say protecting some of the most fortunate among us. What does that say about them in your opinion? Are they immoral people?
WALLIS: Well, I think -- I think people of faith who are making these decisions should listen to their faith. I mean, the scriptures are very clear. The real money is not even with the poor, we didn't get this deficit by spending too much on poor people. It was wars as we financed off the books and tax cuts for the wealthy and -- and runaway government spending, but not about the poor.
So the faith community is saying how you treat the poorest and most vulnerable is a biblical issue. It's a -- it's a theological matter, and we are saying to those of the people of faith, listen to your pastors, listen to your faith here. These deals that are moving targets as you report --
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: Yes.
WALLIS: -- but in the end we could exempt -- we've done this since 1985, we've exempt the low income people from these kinds of cuts. These automatic cuts going forward are going to pass. We're saying you must exempt the most vulnerable. And go to where the real money is. There's a military industrial complex.
HOLMES: Yes. WALLIS: There's corporate America. There's all kinds of money we're not going after because those folks have lobbyist, powerful people. The faith community, our job is to look out for the poor.
HOLMES: Sir and I guess that's -- that is ideal what you're describing. But a lot of people would say, you know this, in the real world, we can't make the budget a moral document because something has got to give. Do you not agree with that because there are some realities, quite, frankly of -- or our finances in this country?
WALLIS: Yes, but the reality is who is going to sacrifice the most is who has the most powerful interest backing them. We are for fiscal health, we are for financial responsibility.
A deficit is a moral issue. But how you reduce a deficit is also a moral issue. And to reduce a deficit on the backs of the most vulnerable is simply unacceptable. In the real world, we have in the past, exempted low income people, while we reduced the deficit.
We are saying let's just do that again. We're calling on the President and Democrats and Republicans to simply exempt the lowest income people from these cuts. That is possible but not without going after where the real money is.
So it's wrong to go after the poorest, who have no one to defend them, while you're allowing the wealthiest to protect of their benefits. That's the simple thing we could do differently if we chose to and that's a moral choice.
HOLMES: All right, well, Mr. Wallis we -- I -- if it's all right, I would like to have you back on this topic. This is a very interesting one. We ended up with a little breaking news this morning and I wish I could spend more time with you.
But it's always good to see you. Good to chat with you, but this is something that might get people thinking about those budgets in a different way.
Sir I appreciate you and good to see you as always. You enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
WALLIS: Good to see you, too, T.J.
HOLMES: All right. Well, if you would like to read more stories about religion and spirituality you can go to CNN.com\belief.
Also "State of the Union" is coming your way in just a couple of minutes. Candy Crowley is taking a day off from me today. Gloria Borger has to put up with me.
We'll talk to her in just a second. She has a couple of big interviews coming up with the Senate Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell as well, as a key Democrat, Charles Schumer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HOLMES: All right. About 18 minutes at the top of the hour, and lookie, lookie, what we got here, chief political analyst for CNN, Gloria Borger is sitting in for Candy Crowley on "STATE OF THE UNION".
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: How are you doing?
HOLMES: Good to see you. Are you doing all right, this morning?
BORGER: I am. I'm sort of psyched for what we have coming up next. It would be very interesting.
HOLMES: Ok now yes, you have to tell me. You've got the Senate Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell coming up with you today.
BORGER: Right.
HOLMES: What is your first question to him this morning?
BORGER: You know what it is. Do we have a deal? Right? I mean he's -- he's the man with a plan and he's been talking to both the President and the Vice President, and he was optimistic yesterday. And Harry Reid was not so optimistic yesterday, but it seems that overnight things have gelled hopefully, and we may be nearing a deal on raising this debt ceiling.
So I think Mitch McConnell is the person to have in the hot seat this morning, don't you?
HOLMES: Gloria, why was he -- yes, he's definitely -- he seems like he became -- I don't know, all these guys are power brokers. But he seems to have become more of a power broker when he was saying, you know what, I'm going to go over here to the White House, I'm going to go talk over here.
Why was he insisting --
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: Right.
HOLMES: -- that the President got back in this mix in a major way?
BORGER: Well, because the President is the only one who can sort to give the final signoff on something. Don't forget, it was the President who threatened to originally to veto some kind of a short- term deal, and so he wanted to hear it directly from the President.
Mitch McConnell had to wait until John Boehner got his bill through the House, and that took a couple of extra days if you'll recall, he had to wait until that was done to kind of start negotiating really full steam ahead, because of course, he supported Boehner's plan, and he couldn't look like he was undercutting him in any way, shape, or form.
So when that passed, its -- then you saw the Speaker and Mitch McConnell go out there and say, "Ok, folks, we need to have some serious discussions," and hopefully we'll hear in a short while what the fruit of those discussions is. I'm -- I'm sort of thinking we're getting close. But we he'll let us know.
HOLMES: We always think that. What do you make of these mood swings we saw yesterday? You know, it was odd, you know, it looked like things were deteriorating.
BORGER: Yes.
HOLMES: And then overnight, oh we got compromise again.
BORGER: Right, yes.
Well, my sources tell me that Harry Reid was a just kind of a little miffed at Mitch McConnell because he thought he was going out there and saying that they were close to a deal when in fact the Democrats were not close to a deal. And so he really didn't like that.
I also think the Democrats want to hold the White House's collective feet to the fire, and say don't cut a deal that leaves us out of it. We want to make sure that somewhere down the line, tax increases are part of a balanced plan to cut the deficit.
So, I think these things are still very much being negotiated right now. And the Democrats don't want to be the ones left out of it, because they're going to have to provide the votes to pass it in the House.
HOLMES: All right. So, this is a big interview, and everybody wants to hear that first question. That's a few minutes away. Again, Gloria Borger, good to see you here on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
BORGER: Good to see you.
HOLMES: It's going to be so great to see you at the top of the hour. Again, Gloria Borger, in for Candy Crowley; and again, big important interview that everybody needs to be listening to from a man who is involved in a major way in these negotiations, Senate Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell. That's that's at the top of the hour.
Also, an Ohio police officer is on suspension for potentially going off on a couple of drivers, but not just going off, going off with a gun in hand and making some threats that you have got to hear. It was all caught on tape.
You won't believe this and you will not want any officer like this pulling you over.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, about 11 minutes until the top of the hour now.
We will turn to Canton, Ohio, where some people there are demanding that a suspended police officer be fired. You will understand why in a moment because you're going to see dash cam video that appears to show this officer threatening to shoot people during traffic stops.
Eric Mansfield of affiliate WKYC has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANIEL HARLESS, CANTON, OHIO POLICE: (INAUDIBLE) pull my Glock 40 and just put 10 bullets in your (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
ERIC MANSFIELD, WKYC REPORTER: It was posted one week ago; already it's an online must see.
Canton police officer Daniel Harless (ph) berating a driver who appears to be trying to show Harless his concealed carry license so that Harless would know he was armed.
But now comes a second video.
HARLESS: I'll kill everyone you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
MANSFIELD: This one from a year ago.
HARLESS: I'll tell you what (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I would shoot you in the face and I'll go to sleep tonight.
MANSFIELD: As Harless temper again flares while instructing two people in the backseat of a car during a traffic-stop for suspected drunk-driving.
PHILIP MULIVOR, OHIOANS FOR CONCEALED CARRY: It looks like we're seeing repeat behavior. It's a disturbing pattern.
MANSFIELD: Philip Mulivor is with Ohioans for Concealed Carry, a group that is calling for Harless's job.
MULIVOR: In both cases, this officer's behavior is entirely egregious. He needs to be removed at once.
MANSFIELD: In both cases, the officer is encountering a gun in the traffic stop, which is always a perceived threat for police. Now it's up to police brass to determine what is acceptable.
HARLESS: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (EXPLETIVE DELETED) or I'll shoot you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Again, that was our affiliate, WKYC, Eric Mansfield reporting there.
The Canton Police Department did release a statement and it says, quote, "The officer was relieved of duty and has not worked since the incident. It is being fully investigated.
Ten minutes until the top of the hour now. They answer to the nation's call in one of its darkest hours, the Montford Point Marines. And this morning, we're returning the salute of America's first black Marines. Their story is next.
Stay with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: We're just about six minutes to the top of the hour here. Our Gloria Borger will be in for Candy Crowley on "STATE OF THE UNION". As I was just talking to Gloria Borger about, she has interview coming up with the Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell; also being joined by another key Democrat in this whole debt debate, Senator Charles Schumer.
But again, our Gloria Borger sitting in for Candy Crowley. That's coming up in just a few minutes.
Also want to give you a look at some of the stories making headlines this morning.
And this is a breaking story we're getting out of Iran. A verdict has been reached in the trial of two American hikers charged with spying. Both were in court today, two years after their arrest near Iran's border with Iraq. Now, as soon as we get the decision we will let you know. Again a verdict reached but it has not been released. It could take up to a week for it to be released or it could be released at any moment.
Also back here in the U.S., the deadline for lawmakers to reach agreement on raising the debt ceiling is now less than two days away. Congressional leaders and the White House reportedly mulling talks of a tentative deal that would extend the debt limit through next year, nothing official just yet. We are watching this one. It could be another long day in Washington.
Also, from Georgetown, Guyana, despite what the crack fuselage suggests -- you see that -- everybody on board this Caribbean Airlines flight from New York survived a rough landing early yesterday morning. Witnesses say the plane skid off the runway during a rainstorm.
In 1941, President Roosevelt opened the door for African-American recruitment into the Marine Corps. Young men from all walks of life heeded that call. They were not sent to regular boot camps at Paris Island, South Carolina or in San Diego. Instead they were segregated at Montford Point, a facility at Camp LeJeune, North Carolina. And this weekend, they're being recognized for their service to this country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDWIN J. FIZER, MONTFORD MARINE: We fought two kinds of wars; one in combat, and the other was right here. We fought Jim Crow and we fought the enemy.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HOLMES: The men of Montford Point were trailblazers. They were the first handpicked to integrate the U.S. Marine Corps, the last branch of the armed services that was still segregated.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GENE DOUGHTY, MONTFORD MARINE: These men were -- men, you understand, who were so proud to be the first, and they were eager to learn.
HOLMES: Their initial excitement would soon be replaced with the reality of racism, in basic training and the lack of support waiting at home.
FIZER: In the Corps at that time, they were hell-bent on making sure that we were not going to succeed in what we were doing.
DOUGHTY: Now, here we go returning from combat from war from fighting in the Pacific, 18 long months, 18 hard months. And having all of the relics, we had some of the Japanese flags we had captured and other relics, and we literally showed the crowd this is what we earned and what we did and we had to do to get these relics. And despite that, that did not help; the fact then that we were black men, and so racism continues on.
HOLMES: Across the armed services, African-Americans were delegated to serve in non-combat support roles, and the Marines would be no exception.
LT. GEN. WALTER E. GASKIN, U.S. MARINE CORPS: What happens when you place someone in a support role and they have to fight their way to support you? They demonstrate what Marines have always done. They rose to the occasion.
Gaskin understands the importance of the Montford Point Marines and how its legacy has paved the way for him to rise through the ranks as a 3-star general.
GASKIN: So when they see me, and I am wearing three stars, they say, you know, I know it was tough for me, but it was worth it, because now I see you.
HOLMES: This weekend's event marks the 46th convention for the Montford Point Marine Association whose sole purpose is to preserve a legacy.
GEN. JAMES F. AMOS, COMMANDANT OF THE MARINE CORPS: We are working aggressively with the legislators on Capitol Hill to confer the Congressional Gold Medal this year on the Montford Point Marines for their service to the United States, from World War II, to the Vietnam era, forever anchoring their role in the history of our nation's great military.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: All right Reynolds, great story this weekend. Glad we were able to bring that to our viewers. A lot of people who maybe never heard of the Montford Point Marines; they even told us that yesterday. You all go down the street and say it and nobody would know what you're talking about. But I'm glad we could bring that story.
REYNOLDS WOLF, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You know what's funny? Those guys that you interviewed, they are the most humble people you're going to meet and you had to just draw it out of them. Some of the best.
Hey you know what? We won't draw out this information we're just going to give it right to you. We're keeping a sharp eye on the tropics namely this system which may be named Emily in short order. We're watching it. The potential for development is around 100 percent at the National Hurricane Center.
And if it were to become a named storm and intensified, the latest path we have for it would be that it would go to the west- northwest as we get into this evening and then as we get into Monday possibly becoming a hurricane, fast-forwarding into Tuesday at 8:00 p.m. very close to San Juan.
Let's pitch it back to you T.J.
HOLMES: All right. Reynolds, appreciate you as always.
And to our viewers we appreciate you hanging out with Reynolds tonight here on the CNN SATURDAY and SUNDAY MORNING.
Right now we're going to hand it over to Gloria Borger for "STATE OF THE UNION", in for Candy Crowley. And again, she has that man, Senate Minority leader, Mitch McConnell.
Big interview starts now.
