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CNN Sunday Morning

Stage Collapses at Indiana State Fair Killing 4; Michele Bachman Wins Ames Straw Poll; New Faces at PGA Championship; Bachmann on Being Submissive; Tim Pawlenty Out of Race

Aired August 14, 2011 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Good Sunday morning. Unfortunately, I have a tragedy to start with this morning. It was a day at the Indiana State Fair, it turned into panic. You see that? The concert stage collapses, and at least four people are dead. A live report in just a moment.

Also, it was a big win for Michele Bachmann, but also Saturday was a big day for Texas Governor Rick Perry. Now both are off and running for the Republican presidential nomination. I'll tell you what they said, what they're now saying, and where they're headed.

Also a weekend wedding in Cuba is getting a lot of attention. Why? Because the groom, well, is a he, but the bride used to be a he as well. We will explain this landmark wedding coming up.

But we do need to start in Indiana. Deadly stage collapse there at the Indiana State Fair. This was going on in Indianapolis. The fair is closed today because of this accident. I'm going to show it to you now, I want you to listen as well. Somebody caught it all on tape as it happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(STAGE COLLAPSES)

(SCREAMS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And as you can see there in the video, a number of people were underneath, directly in the path of that falling stage there. At least four people were killed when the scaffolding around the stage collapsed. A powerful wind gust is blamed, saying it was some 60 to 70 miles an hour, as many as 40 people were injured. Many people were trapped under all that twisted metal.

This video was shot by Ken Hussong. I talked to him a little earlier. What it was like to watch that stage crumble, and also about the immediate response of the crowd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEN HUSSONG, WITNESSED STAGE COLLAPSE: At first, when the riggings started to fall, and it started to collapse, I was hoping that it would fall straight, the stage would not fall out into the audience, and then at that time it started to come toward the front and trapped the people up front by the stage, under the rigging.

And then there were people in the area that started going up to help, and the state police were right there around the stage area, and they were able, you know, to get their immediately and without heavy equipment.

Some of the people were not be able to be taken out from underneath the stage and the rigging area because it had collapsed on them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: I am joined now on the line by Jennifer Carmack-Brilliant, she is with our affiliate WTHR in Indianapolis.

Jennifer, good morning to you. And is there any update from Indianapolis this morning? We understand four killed and about 40 injured. Do those numbers still stand?

: Right now those numbers still stand, but as you can imagine, with the extent of the injuries that we are seeing in this tragedy, those numbers could unfortunately rise this morning and throughout the afternoon.

HOLMES: Jennifer, is there talk yet this morning, I know it's still early, but about the possibility that maybe someone should have called this concert off? We talked to one gentleman who was there, he said he was surprised even that the concert would go on because of the nasty weather that moving in.

CARMACK-BRILLIANT: There is conflicting information this morning as far as exactly what happened, whether an announcement was made to tell people that if the concert would be cancelled to go to the nearby coliseum for shelter, and some people did begin to leave the concert.

And you have to think that that's a fortunate thing, that this could have even have been more devastating than what we are seeing. But, however, as far as canceling the concert, that was not done and clearly not enough people took shelter. So that will come out as the investigation continues.

HOLMES: Jennifer, give us a little background, we hear about state fairs all the time in our respective states. We have these things. And it looks like this Indiana State Fair is supposed to go on, I believe, for a couple of more weeks there in town, but a little background for people who might not be aware, and it looks like it's certainly a big turnout and big names like Sugarland was going to be there.

CARMACK-BRILLIANT: This is a big event here in Indiana. They expect around 900,000 visitors every year. It goes on until the 22nd, so it started in the first week of August. So a big draw. A class act. Big names here. Obviously Sugarland, Janet Jackson is set to be here, Train is set to be here with Maroon 5. And incidentally Train said, on their Twitter account, that their hearts go out to the people of Indianapolis, and they will see us soon and they hope to help. So I think that in their way of saying that they still plan on coming, but it's not clear yet if events will go on what the future will hold for the concerts that are held in the grandstand, which, you know, like I said, every year, big names come here. This is nothing new. But certainly this is a game-changer.

HOLMES: All right. Jennifer Carmack-Brilliant, from our affiliate WTHR, we appreciate you this morning.

CARMACK-BRILLIANT: Sure.

HOLMES: Only five minutes past the hour now. State police in Pennsylvania say the driver of a Greyhound bus lost control right before the bus hit a barrier and rolled over. This happened Saturday in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. The bus was heading from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh. The driver was one of at least 20 people injured in this accident. A number of them had to be taken to the hospital.

All right. They're talking politics. The big headline was supposed to be about the Iowa Straw Poll. Well, we do have the results of that, but there was somebody else stealing headlines.

But first, the straw poll, Michele Bachmann, the congresswoman from Minnesota, finishes on top, just a percentage point ahead of Ron Paul. A big win for Bachmann, who will be a guest on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" with our Candy Crowley, coming up in less than an hour.

But also look down the list a little bit, you find the name of Rick Perry. Now, there is a reason we are pointing him out even though he only has 4 percent of the vote. Let me explain why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RICK PERRY (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is time to get America working again, and that's why with the support of my family and unwavering belief in the goodness of America, I declare to you today as a candidate for president of the United States.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Yes, while so much political focus was on Iowa, a lot of focus went to the Texas governor, who was in South Carolina, not participating in Iowa in the straw poll, just announcing his candidacy yesterday, taking some of the spotlight.

Now he was not even supposed to be campaigning. He wasn't even on the ballot. People had to write his name in, in Iowa. CNN deputy political director Paul Steinhauser has more on Perry, the straw poll, and what it now means for all the competitors.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Good morning, T.J.

You know Michele Bachmann, she was already at the top of the polls here in Iowa, the first state to vote in the primary-caucus calendar, now by winning this crucial straw poll in Ames, Iowa, she has further cemented her frontrunner status in this very important state on the road to the Republican nomination.

Here is what Bachmann told her supporters soon after winning the straw poll.

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, everyone. We did this together! Thank you, everyone, for coming today and thank you so much. What we saw happen today is this is the very first step towards taking the White House in 2012, and you have just sent a message that Barack Obama will be a one-term president.

STEINHAUSER: A close second place finish for Ron Paul, the congressman from Texas, who is making his third bid for the White House. In a distant third-place finish, former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty, who now has questions about whether his campaign will continue.

And a fourth place finish for Rick Santorum, the former senator from Pennsylvania. He is actually pretty happy with that finish. He says his small, modest campaign can continue.

The biggest surprise here, I guess, Rick Perry, the Texas governor, who, on the same day as the straw poll, announced he was running for president. He was not on the ballot here but he finished ahead of Mitt Romney and three other candidates on the ballot.

T.J., back to you.

HOLMES: Thanks as always to our Paul Steinhauser, and again, you can hear from Michele Bachmann on this Sunday's special edition of "STATE OF THE UNION," coming to you live from Ames, Iowa. Bachmann and Herman Cain will be the guests of our Candy Crowley, talking about Iowa and beyond this morning. Again, that's 9:00 Eastern time for "STATE OF THE UNION."

Well, at nine minutes past the hour now, fight night on the ice. Hockey games, they get a little nasty sometimes, and these fights break out, but one hockey team is so proud of its fistfight in one game that they are inviting the fans to a TV brawl party to celebrate the fight. Is this what we have come to? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

HOLMES: We are at 14 minutes past the hour. And he's a sports guy. He gets paid to talk sports. All right? But Ray D'Alessio is having an issue right now with the PGA Championship.

RAY D'ALESSIO, HLN SPORTS: You know, thank goodness for media guides. I would be lost without this thing right now, T.J. I mean, I'm going to throw out some names here. Tell me if these ring a bell. D.A. Points?

HOLMES: That's a name?

D'ALESSIO: It's a name. Anders Hansen.

HOLMES: Yes, I went to school with him, I think.

D'ALESSIO: Keegan Bradley.

HOLMES: Oh, that's my dude, we used to have drinks.

D'ALESSIO: Yes, you know everybody, don't you, T.J.? Brendan Steele, Jason Dufner, our two co-leaders at the PGA Championship.

HOLMES: Who are these guys?

D'ALESSIO: Absolutely. A lot of people wondering, so that is my job, as you said, I did a little research. Let's go ahead and start with Brendan Steele. OK. Brendan Steele is a rookie on the PGA Tour, but already...

HOLMES: Which one is he, on the right or the left?

(CROSSTALK)

D'ALESSIO: There we go. There's Brendan Steele. He is a rookie on the PGA tour, already he has a victory under his belt, won the Texas Open back in April. And, T.J., you know everybody, so you actually might know his uncle, he plays Luke on "General Hospital." Tony Geary.

HOLMES: OK. You got me. You killed me on the "General Hospital" thing.

D'ALESSIO: I forgot. You're a "All My Children" guy. All right. Jason Dufner, meantime, he is an Auburn grad, has never won on the PGA Tour. In fact at one point this season missed four straight cuts. Now here he is along with Steele trying to become the first American to win a major since Phil Mickelson in the 2010 Masters.

But you look at the list, T.J., the top 12 -- really, the only one that has ever won a major is David Toms, who, of course, he won the PGA Championship back there in Atlanta when it was here in 2001. So, yes, a lot of no names. Somebody is going to make a name for themselves today, possibly.

HOLMES: But all those names you reeled off are within striking distance? They're all at the top. And we can...

D'ALESSIO: They're all within striking distance. And you've got Phil Mickelson right now who is at even par, 7 shots back, he could certainly make a run so anything could happen at the PGA Championship.

HOLMES: You know, it's good, some of those guys, to make a name for themselves. All right. Let's move on. This is something we were in here arguing about. All right. Mike, the floor director in here, big hockey guy. It's amazing that fighting is allowed the way it is in hockey, but you all tell me it's a part of the culture. I watch a game or two a year.

D'ALESSIO: Well, there is a difference, T.J. This fight that we're talking about happened back in February. It was a debacle. Penguins- Islanders going at it. The Islanders basically, you know, taking the stance, we had had enough. So they just went on the attack in this game and it resulted in one player being suspended for nine games -- an Islander being suspended for nine games, another Islander player being suspended for four games, and the team being fined $100,000.

Now the Islanders are inviting their fans to a watch party this coming Friday to replay the game and to kind of relive the experience, and to celebrate the fact that they just walloped the Penguins that night on the ice. And actually the Penguins blog, they're furious about this. Penguins fans obviously are furious about this. One the bloggers writers: "Celebrating the blatant attempts to injure in this isn't going to fly, and for the Islanders to be prompting it right on their Web site is beyond words."

That's from the Penguins blog.

HOLMES: Who actually won the game?

D'ALESSIO: The Islanders won the game that night.

HOLMES: OK. Who won the fight?

D'ALESSIO: You would say the Islanders won the fight that night as well. Because it resulted in one Penguins players actually getting a concussion.

HOLMES: And they are going to celebrate that, the guy getting a concussion?

D'ALESSIO: That's the whole controversy here. Mike, in our studio, you know, fighting is part of the culture in hockey, but that night it just got out of hand, it really did.

HOLMES: All right. Ray.

D'ALESSIO: Good to see you.

HOLMES: Good to see you, as always, buddy. Keep studying up on the PGA guys, all right? I'll keep studying up on the hockey.

All right, 17 minutes past the hour. Now coming up on our "Morning Passport," our Nadia Bilchik is going to bring some civility to our airwaves here. She is looking at the city of the future. And where else, but in China. But an American company playing a big role in making it happen. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) HOLMES: Time for our "Morning Passport." Let's say good morning to Nadia Bilchik. Hello to you. We're talking about cities of the future. I am thinking "The Jetsons"

NADIA BILCHIK, EDITORIAL PRODUCER: That's right.

HOLMES: Is that what we're talking about?

BILCHIK: Well, it's amazing when you think of "The Jetsons," because in around 1939 General Motors got together at something called "Futurama," and they said one day there are going to be expressways to suburbs, and people went, that's not going to happen. And now on the outside of Beijing, around 100 miles outside of Beijing, there is an eco-city. It's called Tianjin City, and it's rather remarkable, because it is going to be the first of its kind in terms of sustainability.

And you are seeing the models right now of what it's going to be, probably about three-quarters the size of Manhattan. And what you are seeing there in fact is a sun-powered solar-scape. So if you look at that, think of how much air-conditioning you need because it's cold or warm.

Well, the solar-scape will prevent that so you won't be needing the energy required for heating and cooling. And the idea is that you will be -- have no reliance on fossil fuels whatsoever in the city.

HOLMES: So it keeps it all -- now am I saying that right? It kind if encapsulates...

BILCHIK: Absolutely.

HOLMES: It keeps it all in.

BILCHIK: So it will keep it -- if it's hot, it will be -- keep it cool. If it's cool, it will keep it warm. And you won't have this reliance that we have and this need for energy.

HOLMES: Now how is General Motors getting involved in the game here?

BILCHIK: General Motors are providing the vehicles, and they are rather extraordinary because they are going to be only run on electricity, (INAUDIBLE) isn't that amazing?

HOLMES: That's a car?

BILCHIK: That is the car. It's called a two-wheel propulsion system. And they're called the EN-V System. And General Motors is saying, we are providing the next urban vehicle.

What is the greatest problem that people have with vehicles? Obviously the traffic, and accidents, and the use of fuel. So here you have electrically-powered vehicles.

HOLMES: Now how is this supposed to work? It's on an automatic system or are you actually driving it? How does this work? BILCHIK: You get into the car and apparently it has a GPS, so you program the GPS so you are not actually powering the car yourself. And also it communicates with other cars so there won't be any accidents.

HOLMES: You got my attention.

BILCHIK: And they say this is the next emerging market, this is where the growth in the motor industry is going to take place.

HOLMES: Now when will they have this city up and running?

BILCHIK: They say about 2020.

HOLMES: That soon?

BILCHIK: It started developments in 2008. And it's like a very light transit rail system, so that people won't be using cars. What is also extraordinary about this city is it's going to have a lot of affordable housing, also very friendly towards the elderly community, the way that it's going to work.

I mean, it sounds almost fantastical, this eco-friendly remarkable city, and there's a Chinese-Singaporean consortium who are building it. And by 2020, and maybe this is the city of the future and we'll be going, wow, but maybe this is how we're all going to be living.

HOLMES: OK. This is not too far into the future. This is not way off. 2020, that is not too long to wait. So "Morning Passport," about eight years from now, you'll give us the update.

BILCHIK: One of those vehicles would be nice now, wouldn't it?

HOLMES: It would. Just get in and let...

BILCHIK: Getting around CNN Center.

HOLMES: Nadia Bilchik with our "Morning Passport," thank you, as always.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: All right, 24 minutes past the hour now. When a Taliban rocket shot down a U.S. helicopter last week, a lot of people focused on the high numbers of deaths, 30. Well, today we're focusing on the individuals. Their lives. We'll finds out about two of these fallen heroes. We're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: All right. America suffered its worst single-day loss of life in Afghanistan last week. Taliban rockets shot down an Army helicopter, killing 30 U.S. servicemen, most of them elite Navy SEALs.

It's important that America remember these fallen heroes, not just because of the number, but the individuals as well. So over the next several hours here, over the past several hours, even, on this CNN SUNDAY MORNING, we have been looking at the lives of some of them. We will continue to do so. We have asked cnn.com's Ashley Fantz to be here with us, profile the couple of these service members' last hour, Ashley.

And now we want to talk about Robert Reeves. Tell us about him.

ASHLEY FANTZ, CNN.COM: Thirty-two years old from Shreveport, Louisiana, grew up there, where yesterday hundreds and hundreds of people packed a church to remember him. His friends say that he was quick-witted, really sharp, really sweet. The guy always, always wanted to be a SEAL. Graduated from SEAL school in 1999. So he has been doing this job for a long time.

He was awarded the Bronze Star for valor. He has been awarded medals for his tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and also recognized for being an expert rifleman, and an expert at the pistol. Very talented, ambitious, driven.

HOLMES: All these pictures, they look so young, these all-American -- you'll say kids, but these are grown men who do some serious work. They look like these all-American guys.

Aaron Vaughn is another.

FANTZ: Yes. He actually -- Aaron Vaughn is a remarkable -- was a remarkable person. He leaves behind two children, a 2-month-old, and a 2-year-old. He met his wife, who was actually an NFL cheerleader, in Guam, where she was on a USO tour, and so they met each other there.

HOLMES: Those stories actually work out, huh?

FANTZ: They do occasionally work out. And so she, Kimberly, has talked quite a bit in the last few days. We sit back and wonder, how does she have the strength, really? And that's the question that we should all ask ourselves. How do families have the strength to really talk about these amazing, amazing men who were lost so quickly.

HOLMES: And you've profiled several for us this morning, and we thank you. But people who want to hear about all 30 of these service members, where can they go?

FANTZ: Sure. They can go to cnn.com/homeandaway. There they'll find profiles of all of the men who died in that crash.

HOLMES: All right. Ashley, good to have you with us this morning and pointing this out and telling people where they can go. Thank you so much.

FANTZ: Thank you.

HOLMES: All right. We're coming up on the bottom of the hour now. Coming up in our "Faces of Faith," religion and politics. Some people say the two do not belong together, but the subject certainly came up in a high profile way on the campaign trail last week. It was in Iowa, and it's because of something Michele Bachmann once said. Is it fair to be asking a female presidential candidate if she would be "submitting" to her wife (sic) if she were president? The discussion is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: All right, at the bottom of the hour here now. Welcome back, everybody. I am T.J. Holmes. I'll give you a look at some of the stories making headlines right now.

Up first, this tragedy at the Indiana State Fair. This was happening in Indianapolis. At least four people killed when scaffolding around the stage collapsed, a wind gust of 60 to 70 miles-an-hour is to blame.

Still no claim of responsibility as we move to Pakistan now in the kidnapping of an American, Warren Weinstein is his name. There he is. This was yesterday. He was taken from his home. He works for a U.S. consulting firm there. Eight gunmen took him from his heavily fortified home in Lahore.

Also, take a look at the street violence in Northern Ireland. This is after 10,000 Protestants held an annual march for a heavily Catholic city there. This was the result of it, young people wearing mask and throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails attacked police vehicles and setting several on fire.

All right, Michele Bachmann, the only female running for president, says she is, and I quote, "a submissive wife". Now, she raised this issue five years ago while running for Congress. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My husband said, now you need to go and get a post doctorate degree in tax law. Tax law, I hate taxes, why should I go into something like that? Like the lord said, be submissive, wives you are to be submissive to your husbands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, Bachmann's stance on being a submissive wife resurfaced in a Republican debate this past week. She had a different explanation this time around. Listen to the question, her response but also the audience's response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: In 2006 when you were running for Congress, you described a moment in your life when your husband said you should study a degree in tax law. You said you hated the idea. And then you explained, quote, "But the lord said be submissive, wives you are to be submissive to your husbands." As President, would you be submissive to your husband?

BACHMANN: What submission means to us, if that's what your questions is, it means respect. I respect my husband. He's a wonderful godly man and great father, and he respects me as his wife. That's how we operate our marriage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: What in the world does being submissive mean? We bring in a friend of our show here on CNN SUNDAY MORNING, in our "Faces of Faith" segment. Dr. Brent Strawn, he is over at Emory University to talk about this. An ordained minister and an associate professor of Old Testament studies there.

Now I want to give a quote that a lot of people might be familiar with but this is from the King James Version of the Bible, Ephesians Chapter 5 Verses 22 and 23. I'll show it to you. It says, "Wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands as unto the Lord, for the husband is the head of the wife even as church is the -- as Christ -- excuse me, is the head of the church."

Help me understand or probably not a consensus, but in general what is "submit" supposed to mean?

PROF. BRENT STRAWN, OLD TESTAMENT STUDIES, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Yes, well the -- the verb occurs something like 30-some times on the New Testament. And contrary to Bachmann's later comment it doesn't really mean respect. It's -- it's something a good bit stronger than that in the New Testimony context.

HOLMES: Right.

STRAWN: So you -- you submit to elders, you submit to church authorities, officials, most often you submit to God or to Christ in the New Testament.

So it's a bit stronger than what we would say "respect".

HOLMES: Ok. How do people apply that to modern times given that a lot of women would be offended by such a word, even religious, women who are very religious and do read the Bible and stick to it?

STRAWN: Right. Right.

HOLMES: That sound submitting.

STRAWN: Right. Very much so, I -- people respond to it differently. There are, of course, some conservative Christians particularly who do sort of organize their lives by this, their marriages or even in church structure by this, that women can't be pastors, for instance.

But the majority I think of -- of main line Christians don't do that and it's partly because of other text in the New Testament, sort of balance out these submissive verses.

HOLMES: All right, and I know, you're -- you're not here to talk politics necessarily but the answer she did give for a scholar like yourself and others out there listening and trying to make the connection between submit and respect. You're saying, not really the same thing, so maybe that was the answer, a political answer she may be needed to give at the time or she may be got caught off-guard here.

STRAWN: Well, maybe so, I mean in -- in -- Ephesians 5:22 it's definitely "submit". But in the earlier part of that same book, in fact the immediate verse it talks about mutual submission, one to another out of reverence for Christ. So that clearly in parts of the New Testament in Paul's correspondence particularly, Ephesians is attributed to -- to the Apostle Paul -- there is this kind of a mutual submission and more of an egalitarian relationship between the husband and the wife.

HOLMES: Is that language and this -- and go ahead and put that graphic back up for me. And you talk about that -- that -- that mutual submission. And you might be able to tell me another place where this does occur but in this one in particular, in Ephesians, where it says, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church". Is there a place where it specifically, explicitly states "Husbands submit yourselves to your wives" as well?

STRAWN: Right, not in that exact language but in 5:21 it say, "You submit to one another", out of reverence for Christ. And then it say, "wives to your husbands", and then goes on and then, "Husbands, love your wife as Christ loves the church", which in this case means that husbands should be ready to give the ultimate sacrifice for their wives.

And it goes on to also talk about how husbands ought to love their wives as they loved themselves, how they take care of their own selves, they nourish their own bodies and they would do that also for their wives, and then it ends by saying so husbands love your wives, and wives respect your husbands. So there the word "respect" is actually used.

HOLMES: Is there a lot of -- maybe some misinterpretation, but a lot of debate that continues still, and this is right back into the forefront after such a high profile question that she got this week. But it does bring up an age-old debate necessarily about what that really means?

STRAWN: It does. Because these texts are reflecting -- they are original ancient context. And that world was quite patriarchal and we still live with the effects of patriarchy in our own country and the let alone in other parts of the world.

So in those -- those texts that reflect that but there's other text, these texts that you talked about mutuality or more of an egalitarian ethic are remarkable in their ancient contexts and it's unfortunate that people don't know those texts more and talk about them as much.

HOLMES: We picked out Ephesians and that's one that a lot of people might have been familiar with or heard before in some way form or fashion. You mentioned that the word submit is 30-something times, or something that is mentioned in the Bible. But are there several other places where I guess women are put in -- at least in the biblical context that kind of position of submission, that the word "submit" being used; all of those references have to with wives submitting?

(CROSSTALK)

STRAWN: No, no.

HOLMES: No.

STRAWN: No, a lot of them -- and most of them have to do with submitting to God, or submitting to Christ or submitting to elders or what have you. Only a few have to do with wives submitting to their husbands. But it does occur in a couple of other places.

But again, it's important to balance those with other text in the New Testament even in the Apostle Paul's letters where he speaks of women very highly, speaks of men and women in mutual relationship. Even calls an apostle, a woman by name who is an apostle.

HOLMES: All right, last thing here and I want you to talk to -- because I put this out this week on social media, Twitter and Facebook. You can imagine the response --

(CROSSTALK)

STRAWN: Yes.

HOLMES: -- that it got.

So explain to those husbands who are sitting at home right now say, hey, the Bible says you are supposed to submit to your husbands.

STRAWN: Yes.

HOLMES: Talk to them -- calm them down.

STRAWN: Well again, I think that's just one text and -- and it's -- to be expected in its ancient context. But these other texts where Paul says there is neither male or female, you all are one.

HOLMES: Ok.

STRAWN: Or speaks of mutuality in the marriage relationship 1st Corinthians 7, that's -- that's where those men need to read first.

HOLMES: They need to read further, ok.

STRAWN: That's right.

HOLMES: Good to see you as always.

STRAWN: My pleasure.

HOLMES: Thank you so much.

All right, we're 38 minutes past the hour now.

A lot of people were offended that Bachmann was even asked whether she would submit to her husband as president in the first place, and many of you sounded off on our blog on CNN.com. The question is, "Was it fair -- was it a fair question to Michele Bachmann?"

Here are some of your comments. One of you saying, "It is not offensive if she is submissive to her husband. It essentially means that American people would be electing a shadow president -- her husband into office."

Here is another comment we got. It says, "When you wear your "faith" on your sleeve and tout it as a qualifying trait for the presidency, it becomes more than fair game."

And then, another saying, "The real question is what does this have to do with being president? Separation of church and state? Anybody remember that?"

We appreciate some of you all chiming in. And if you would like to read more stories about religion and spirituality, you know where to go, CNN.com\belief.

Well, it's official now -- still on politics here, but not so much the religious side.

Texas Governor, Rick Perry, he's jumping into the race for the White House. We'll talk about that.

Plus, the results and meaning of the Iowa straw poll with our own Candy Crowley; she is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: All right, we're getting close to the top of the hour. That means it's almost time for "State of the Union," and Candy Crowley. She is not in the studio today, oh no, she's out where the action has been in Iowa.

Good morning to you Candy and a lot of the talk has been about Michele Bachmann, and we'll be hearing from her. You have an interview with her at the top of the hour.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN HOST "STATE OF THE UNION": Yes, yes. She -- she is our lead guest here today. In fact, I just finished the interview. She is doing the -- the -- the rounds, as we say.

You know, look, she is the headline today. She is the one who won the straw poll that was on this campus at Iowa State. And so she -- she -- this is great for her. Because the question always was -- can she take all that passion of the people that come to see her and get them here to vote for her, and she delivered.

So it's a -- it's a big boost for her, and a question for what it does for some other folks in the race who didn't do as well. And now the spotlight really is on her, because the higher you go up this political chain the intenser (ph) the spotlight.

We talked about what she considers her greatest accomplishments, we talked about where she has compromised in order to get a bill through, like -- that the rap on the Tea Party, is nobody compromises. Where have you compromised? That proves to be sort of a though one from her. So it was an interesting conversation.

And we will have it coming up at the top of the hour along with Herman Cain, who was also in this poll who says he's happy. He placed fifth in here right behind Rick Santorum. And as far as we know he is carrying on. So we're going to talk to him about that and some of his policy outlooks.

And we're also going to talk to Steve King, who is a really influential Tea Party Congressman from Iowa and kind of get his take on what happened.

I'm going to talk to a couple of my colleagues from the "Washington Post" and the "Wall Street Journal" and they're going to tell me what's it's all about.

HOLMES: And it's all about Iowa, or at least it was supposed to be but so many eyes and cameras were on Texas.

CROWLEY: Yes.

HOLMES: Governor Rick Perry who was over in South Carolina yesterday. It looked like he played this thing -- the last few days of the week last week -- pretty brilliantly.

CROWLEY: Sure. I mean if you can't -- you know, one of the oldest tricks in the political campaign book is if you can't make a headline yourself that day, get in on somebody else's headline, or at least their dateline. And that's exactly what Rick Perry did.

This was not, you know, long-planned then suddenly they looked and said, oh my goodness, that's the same day as the straw poll. The question is, did that hurt him here in Iowa. Steve King will argue that it does hurt him; that people think that he tried to take the limelight away, which he did.

But, you know, there's a long time between now and the caucuses. Iowans are open-minded people. I lived here myself for a while. And I don't think it hurts him in the long run, maybe in the short run people are grumbling about it. But he saw an advantage and he took it.

HOLMES: all right. Candy, we're looking forward to seeing you in just about 14 minutes from now. It's Candy Crowley, "STATE OF THE UNION". Her lead guests, as you heard is Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, fresh off her win in the Iowa straw poll. Also Herman Cain will join Candy Crowley. That's just minutes away.

Meanwhile, in Cuba, same-sex marriage still not legal there, but the marriage of a gay man to a transsexual woman is blurring the lines between what is allowed and what is not allowed in the communist country. That report is next.

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HOLMES: All right. We're just about ten minutes to the top of the hour as you stay with me as I am putting my earpiece back in. But the news I have to bring to you all right now: we told you that Iowa straw polls can sometimes make or break a candidate. We are getting word now that in fact, Tim Pawlenty, the former governor of Minnesota -- excuse me here, but stay with me. News we're just getting in that he, in fact, is getting out of the race just a day after the results of the Ames straw poll.

Tim Pawlenty needed to have a big day. He needed to have a big showing. A lot of people said he needed to come in first or second. He did not. He came in third; a lot of people might have called that respectable, but still, word coming to us from our Peter Hamby, CNN political unit's Peter Hamby reporting now that he is getting out of the race.

This news first in to us here at CNN, coming to us from our Peter Hamby, from our political unit. You see Pawlenty showing there at 14 percent. As I am bring in our Candy Crowley, who is still there in Ames, Iowa for us.

And Candy, a surprise to some maybe but maybe not to others; they say these things can make or break you. It's not necessarily about the winners but the losers. He came in third. Why is that not good enough for Tim Pawlenty?

CROWLEY: Right. It's not good enough because, listen, there were big players here that are in this race, that are leading in national polls. Mitt Romney and Rick Perry; it hardly mattered what showed up in the polls. So you've got those two strong players, then you had Michele Bachmann coming in very strong. It's getting a little crowded here.

What happens, it's not so much he placed third, it's that people are going to look at this. They're going to parse the numbers. They're going to look at who's strong and who isn't, the money dries up. It's a long time between August in Iowa, and February in Iowa, when the caucuses are held. So you have got to have money to do that.

Pawlenty sunk a million dollars into the straw poll effort. He had some of the best folks in Iowa working for him, organizing for him and he still he couldn't do better than third and it was a poor third.

HOLMES: Yes.

CROWLEY: If you look at those numbers, his numbers were less than half of those of both Ron Paul and Michele Bachmann. So it was a distant third. It's just not good enough to say to a donor, "Come on, believe in me." And it's just -- it's a long haul and at some point you kind of have to look at what people around you are saying, and if your donors are beginning to balk.

People want to back a winner and they look at a third-place win from a guy who had a great team, who has a great resume but for whatever reason did not seem to catch fire here in Iowa. And if you can't catch fire here in August, sometimes you just have to step out because there is just no place else to go. HOLMES: And Candy it's so definitive it seems. We're just hours away from the results of the straw poll. Like you said, it's a long haul, but just hours after the straw poll, a third place finish, that's enough to knock him out.

What about those who finished below him in the straw poll yesterday? Are they having some of these same conversations that maybe he had with his people overnight?

CROWLEY: Sure. Of course they are. I mean everybody -- I think, you know, you can assume that Ron Paul is going to carry on, obviously Michele Bachmann is, Mitt Romney is, and we heard from Herman Cain and we'll hear from him in our show later. He has said I'm going.

Look, some people are on shoestring campaigns. Some people are on a campaign that is sort of fueled by the ideas. They look at it realistically, no they don't have a shot but they want to move the conversation. They want to push the conversation. So they stay in and they go to already existing events. They don't need a big staff or don't need to organize for the caucuses so much as kind of inspire passion. So there are your passion players and then there are your organization players, and they are the ones with the money.

Tim Pawlenty was considered to be coming in to this race a top tier guy; he just never lived up to that. Again a lot of people thought, you know, he didn't not seem to have the passion on the stump. He's just standing by Michelle Obama (SIC). He just did not seem to create the kind of fervor or the kind of crowds that she could, or even that Mitt Romney could. So despite the fact that he had this great staff, you add it all up and say, great staff, he had the money to play here, a million bucks he sunk into it, and he still only comes in a distant third.

And donors are looking at that and you want to play in the top tier, you have to have the money; if you want to play in some other place where you want to try to move the message, that takes less money.

Again, you can show up at the debates and do your message. That doesn't cost all that much, and you can travel around Iowa in a bus, gathering your passionate few around you. You can make the local news. And so you can do that at one level of this campaign. You cannot do it where the big players go, and I think it's just looking ahead.

Could he go tomorrow someplace speak, yes, and draw a crowd? He could. But you know, September October, November, December, January, it's just the tab just adds up; if you want to play. He's got a good staff. He's paying them a lot of money. You run out of money, you run out of donors and you can't go anywhere.

HOLMES: All right. Candy Crowley with the news for us there; Candy, we appreciate you. Again to our viewers, you can see candy in just a few moments at the top of the hour with "STATE OF THE UNION". She does have on the show Bachmann, also Herman Cain as her guests today.

But the news we are just getting. We told you yesterday that this straw poll is a big deal because it can make or break a candidate. It's not just about who wins; it's about also who shows poorly and who loses. Tim Pawlenty comes in third, that's not good enough. He is dropping out of the presidential race.

Quick break. We're right back.

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HOLMES: All right. Again, a reminder, "STATE OF THE UNION" with Candy Crowley coming your way at the top of the hour; a lot of news, including the fact that Tim Pawlenty -- we're just getting word, CNN confirming -- is dropping out of the presidential race.

Right now, let me give you a look at some of the stories making headlines including in Indiana, where four people are dead and another 40 are injured after this accident during a concert at the Indiana state fair. A strong gust of wind blamed for the stage collapse. National Weather Service estimating the deadly wind gusts was between 60 and 70 miles-an-hour. That fair is closed today.

Also the Philadelphia mayor, Michael Nutter, says teens and parents have gotten the message on the city's new teen curfew. The earlier curfew, now at 9:00 at night until 6:00 in the morning is aimed at reducing the flash mob violence attributed to social media-minded teenagers. The second night of the curfew netted only 20 juveniles breaking curfew. Fifty were taken into custody Friday night.

Let's turn now to Los Angeles where the L.A. sheriff detectives say they are now considering misdemeanor charges against the rapper, The Game, for allegedly tweeting the phone number of a sheriff's station and inviting his followers to flood dispatchers and deputies with phone calls. The Game's real name is Deshawn Taylor (ph). It says on his Twitter page it was actually an accident.

Right now let's turn to Alexandra Steele, to give us one last look at what's happening in weather and some ugly stuff out there, actually.

ALEXANDRA STEELE, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, especially if you're flying this morning; a slow start to your Sunday in the northeast, delays up to an hour and increasing. Here is why. This deluge of rain just driving up the 95 corridor, so wet any way you slice it today.

Here's the forecast. Again severe storms in the mid-Atlantic, so Washington, Baltimore, down towards Virginia, expect some strong storms today. Rainy conditions all the way from the northeast to the southeast. And temperatures kind of shaved down a little bit in the northeast and southeast as the clouds and showers move in.

That's a look at your forecast. Have a great day T.J.

HOLMES: All right Alexandra. And thank you and you for being with us this weekend. To our viewers, we are about to hand this over to "STATE OF THE UNION" with Candy Crowley. Big political news; she does have Michele Bachmann with her today; and also Herman Cain.

But we also are learning that there is one fewer of the presidential candidates out there; Tim Pawlenty dropping out of the race after finishing third in the straw poll.

Here she is.