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CNN Sunday Morning

Protester Ignoring Police Warning; GOP Candidates Square Off in Debate; Emotional Day at Penn State; Looking or a Leader in Italy

Aired November 13, 2011 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HOLMES: As we're getting close to the top of the hour, we continue to watch - what you're watching on your screen which are live pictures of what's happening right now on the streets of Portland, Oregon. Local time there, it's about 4:00 A.M. They have many of the Occupy demonstrators ignored a midnight local time deadline by police and the city to leave the Occupy encampment. Essentially got eviction notices, if you will. But they have refused to leave.

And here we are four hours past that deadline and they are still there. We do have police in riot gear that are standing by. So far, so good. It's been peaceful. We've seen a couple of people arrested. Also a report of one police officer injured by a projectile, but still people, many people on the streets of Oakland - excuse me, Portland, we will go back to Portland live here in just a moment.

Also, we have been keeping an eye - as we cross the top of the hour here on this CNN SUNDAY MORNING. Portland not the only place, I said Oakland there inadvertently just a second ago, because we have been watching similar scenes in Oakland, Salt Lake City, Albany, all across the country where police officers and cities have gotten in a way fed up with some of the Occupy protesters and demand that they leave some of these encampments. They're calling them safety hazards.

There have been reports in some places around the country. There have been drug overdoses in some place. There was a guy found dead at one encampment, but there's a safety issue.

And so this is what we're dealing with now in Portland. Again, we're at the top of the hour, 7:00 A.M. Eastern Time here in Atlanta. But it's 4:00 A.M., 4:00 A.M. in the morning and in some ways you can call it still Saturday night for a lot of these folks in Portland. But this encampment has been there for the past several weeks.

Occupy protesters have been occupying a couple of downtown parks. Well, police in the city gave them a deadline of midnight to leave these encampments. Well, you can see by some of the pictures here that that did not happen. We are some four hours past that midnight deadline for them to leave and they are still there.

Police are in riot gear. We have seen it in many pictures, but they have been so far just standing by. We've seen a couple of arrests in some of the live feeds we are seeing but not a major move by the police just yet to start hauling people out of there. Kari Koch is on the line with me. She's one of the community organizers. She's been a part of the "Occupy" movement for the past six weeks.

Kari, I appreciate you hopping on the line. And if you can, set the scene. This appears to be a standoff, with no side, the police or the demonstrators, really making any kind of move of any kind.

KARI KOCH, OCCUPY PORTLAND DEMONSTRATOR (via telephone): Thanks for having me.

So I think that tonight is a clear victory in Portland for the "Occupy" movement. The police and the mayor, Sam Adams, did say that they were going clear out the parks at 12:01. And as you said, it's four hours after that, and the crowd here, the assembly is still strong, still vibrant. And still very much holding down the occupation camp, with no sign of any of the spirit letting up even into these wee hours of the night.

And we have seen the police have a presence here. They have, you know, been in riot gear and did try to bring in the horses. But protesters, the occupiers at every moment have been able to hold them back.

HOLMES: Well, Kari, why have the demonstrators not followed the instructions of the mayor and of the police officers to leave?

KOCH: That's an excellent question because what we're doing here at "Occupy Portland" and in the "Occupy" movement globally is we are bringing to the forefront issues that desperately matter to people. We're talking about inequality of wealth and power. We're talking about homelessness and foreclosures. We're talking about issue that matter to people's lives.

And if the mayor can order us to leave, but we have the right of freedom of assembly, we have right to free speech and the right to be in these parks, and we're not going to back down and leave the parks just because it's inconvenient for the mayor to have us here. We think that our issues, the values that we're bringing to the national stage, to the national conversation and to our city conversation are much too important to just walk away.

HOLMES: And, ma'am, you said --

KOCH: We clearly have the support of the community. We had 10,000 people show up to support these "Occupy" encampments this evening. And we still have 1,000 people here in the streets at 4:00 a.m.

And so, we are talking about the values that matter to the American public. The values that are hitting our heartstrings and pocketbooks. And, you know, the mayor's wanting us to leave aren't going to change the issues that are affecting the American public and the "Occupy" movement.

HOLMES: And, Kari, the mayor and police officers, and we have seen this happen across -- not just in Portland -- but some officers and some police departments and mayors are saying there's a safety issue. There have been some incidents. Maybe not directly related to what -- an action of a demonstrator or protester, but still, you have people camping out in parks. And there becomes a safety issue, sometimes a sanitary issue.

So, what is the end game for the protesters? You say you have a right to be there and you're not going to leave. You're not going to leave until what?

KOCH: Well, I think you make an excellent point that there are safety issues. You know, we see that folks walk to the "Occupy" movement who are houseless, who have nowhere else to go, who are not getting the food and the services that they need from our system. So, they come to the "Occupy" movement because we offer a safe place. We offer a warm place. We offer food.

"Occupy Portland" is feeding 1,500 people a day at our occupation. And, I mean, 600 people at night were sleeping in the camps.

Those are issues that exist in our society. And those are just issues that "Occupy Portland" is bringing to light. So they're not going to go away just because the camp goes away if it ever does go away. It's something that the mayors all around this country need to deal with and need to sort of stop blaming on the "Occupy" movement who are simply, you know, shining a light on the social ills that we're all facing.

As far as the end game goes, we plan to be here indefinitely. We plan to continue to work on the issues that we've been working on and hold public space. I think that the "Occupy" movement has had an amazing victory in changing the national conversation.

Sorry, the bike brigade is coming behind me. There's about 100 bikes -- people on bicycles biking through the streets now.

HOLMES: Who are those people? You said the bike brigade. What is that, Kari?

KOCH: So, the bike brigade is bicyclists. Portland is a big bicycling community. So, there's about 100 people on bicycles and all their biking gear who biking around the occupation all night long. They've been biking since 11:00 p.m.

And they are supporters of the "Occupy" movement and people from the bicycling community here in town.

HOLMES: All right. Kari, we appreciate you hopping on line. Just as you were describing that bike brigade, we're seeing live pictures, our viewers seeing it, as well.

But, Kari, we appreciate you taking the time with us now just after 4:00 in the morning there in Portland.

And as you just heard Kari say, they don't plan on going anywhere. They plan on occupying the space they have indefinitely in defiance of what the mayor and what police officers are telling them to do which was leave four hours ago. That was the deadline, midnight local time, to leave these encampments.

Police, mayor saying this is a safety issue out there. Local reports that there have been people who had drug overdoses out there and other safety issues. But the occupiers say, no, this is not what's happening. For the most part, we've been peaceful. We have a right to peacefully assemble, and that is what they're going to do.

And we'll be there indefinitely. We'll keep a close eye on what's happening. But police continue to be at the ready on standby in riot gear.

Now, we're focusing on Portland this morning. We're keeping an eye on it throughout this Sunday morning. It's not the only city that's trying to get the "Occupy" protesters out of some of these parks.

This is a map for you. You see from Albany, New York, over to Salt Lake City and several points in between, we have seen a number of clashes between police and protesters. Most notably in Oakland. Also in Denver.

We've seen some of the same happenings in Atlanta where many of the protesters had to be evicted from the park. It was peaceful.

Also we have seen some clashes in St. Louis, as well, where people are being evicted from these encampments. But what's happening in Portland, live at this hour, we'll keep a close eye on it.

We want to turn now to some politics -- and national security is the focus of last night's Republican presidential debate in South Carolina. Eight candidates were trying to set themselves apart in the minds of voters. We've got just two months to go before the first votes are cast in this primary season.

Give you some of the highlights -- torture or enhanced interrogation techniques, depending on who you ask, t came up last night, including that issue of waterboarding. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I were president, I would be willing to use waterboarding. I think it was very effective. It gained information for our country.

(APPLAUSE)

JON HUNTSMAN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Waterboarding is torture. We dilute ourselves down like a lot of countries and we lose that ability to project values.

HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would return to that policy. I don't see it as torture. I see it as an enhanced interrogation technique.

REP. RON PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Torture is illegal and -- by our laws. It's illegal by international laws. GOV. RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm for using techniques, not torture, but using those techniques that we know will extract the information to save young lives, and I will be for it until I die.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

HOLMES: All right. The debate last night, the topic was supposed to be all about foreign policy, national security. But also spending cuts came up in relation to foreign policy.

A couple candidates, they jumped in. They had some ideas on what they would do about by the current $50 billion foreign aid budget. Listen to this idea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

PERRY: The foreign aid budget in my administration for every country is going to start at zero dollars.

(APPLAUSE)

PERRY: Zero dollars. And then we'll have a conversation. Then we'll have a conversation in this country about whether or not a penny of our taxpayer dollars needs to go into those countries.

NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You ought to start off at zero and say, explain to me why I should give you a penny.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

HOLMES: Well, also from last night, Michele Bachmann's campaign, they are a little peeved about something that happened around the news debate. Didn't really have something to do with what she said during the debate, but how much she was allowed to say.

Let me explain here. There was an e-mail chain. You've had this moment before, you hit "reply all." Well, this is one of those "reply all" moments.

Well, the CBS political director, his name is John Dickerson. He accidently hit "reply all." And in a larger e-mail about post-debate interviews, he had this to say about Bachmann's role in the debate itself, and I quote, "She's not going to get many questions. And she's nearly off the charts."

Well, Michele Bachmann's campaign didn't appreciate that because when the CBS guy hit "reply all," it accidently went to one of Michele Bachmann's staffers. Her campaign manager said that Dickerson, the CBS guy, should now be fired.

But CBS initially saying, hey, she's at 4 percent in the polls. Let's be realistic. She's not going to be getting a lot of questions at this debate.

We'll continue to follow this throughout the morning. About 10 minutes past the hour now. And Penn State is trying to move forward from the child rape scandal. Emotional scene at yesterday's final home game and the first game since the allegations came out.

You're watching CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: We're at 12 minutes past the hour on this CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

It was a football game, but it seemed like the focus was on everything but football. Penn State playing their first game in some 46 years without Joe Paterno as their head coach, and also the first game since the entire child rape scandal broke.

Mike Galanos is there for us.

Mike, good morning to you once again.

And, you know, we talked about it yesterday. What do you really expect this to feel like? So, what did it feel like being there?

MIKE GALANOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, getting in that stadium, it had a big-game feel. Not for football but, again, bigger than that.

I think the folks from Penn State, I think there was this "We've got to win this one." After all, let's at least have the win. They didn't, they lost 17-14.

But to your point, T.J., it was about more than football. And the players said that with their actions. Instead of storming on to the field, they came out arm in arm together, walking, not charging. There was the moment of silence with the fans and everybody. I'd never seen so many people so silent.

And again, back to the players, they come together, both teams in prayer. That's almost unprecedented prior to a football game. So, they set the tone. This is bigger than football.

About the game, as I'd mentioned, Nebraska wins 17-14. Penn State fought hard. And you could feel the emotions, that exhale of emotions at the end of the game. And you know it was -- we wonder what was stirring in the Paterno family.

Jay Paterno, Joe's son, he's a coach. He was on the sidelines, and those emotions came to the surface after the game. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY PATERNO, PENN ST. ASSISTANT COACH: Joe has always taught us about the blue line of practice, when you cross the blue line, the only thing you control is what you're doing right there. So, we just had to imagine there was a blue line coming into the stadium. And once we were here, we were focused on the task at hand, and just a little short.

Dad, I wish you were here. We love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALANOS: Wow, you see those emotions. The tears coming. And you know there was a locker room full of tears probably throughout the week.

And it's a testament to the players. They were able to continue to fight hard. I'm sure they were emotionally drained through all this.

What about the fans? You wonder what kind of experience was it for them. The silence, it was a different feel. But yet, it was football.

Let's listen to the fans' perspective on all this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was different and it was very, very touching -- particularly at the beginning of the game. Both teams came together, embraced like that. It was awesome for the fans and entire community. I mean, it was an experience that I think every fan will remember.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Throughout the entire game, Penn State fans say, we are Penn State. And at the beginning of the game, I think it proved that both teams, Nebraska and Penn State, we were all Penn State.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

GALANOS: How about that, very poignant. That was from a Nebraska fan, after it was all said and done. And nothing said "We are Penn State" or "we are together" more than $20,000 raised to help prevent child abuse coming from the stadium behind me, T.J.

HOLMES: All right. The healing begins with the football game yesterday.

Mike Galanos, thank you very much -- been reporting for us there this weekend.

GALANOS: Thanks.

HOLMES: We're at a quarter past the hour.

Listen now on the heels of what's happening at Penn State, listen to what's going on at the Citadel -- some soul searching this, as well. University officials now admit that they should have done more when allegations of inappropriate sexual conduct surfaced there a few years ago. A former cadet and camp counselor, you're seeing him there, Louis ReVille, was arrested last month on charges of criminal sexual conduct and attempted lewd acts with a child.

But it was back in 2007 that a red flag was raised about his conduct at the Citadel. The university stopped investigating after their attorney said they couldn't confirm any acts of abuse had taken place.

Also coming up this morning, the fall of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi following years of scandals and years of alleged sex parties. It's the economy that did the prime minister in.

Also this morning, at 17 minutes past the hour. We continue to watch these live pictures, trying to figure out what they're up to in this particular shot. But this is out of Portland, Oregon, where we have been showing you live pictures for the past hour and a half. It's 4:17 in the morning there.

But the "Occupy" protesters were ordered by police and the mayor to leave their encampment by midnight local time. That was almost four and a half hours ago.

They're still there, they're still chanting, they're still yelling, they're still dancing, and they're still doing what in this picture? Not sure, but we are keeping an eye on what's happening in the streets of Portland, Oregon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Twenty-one minutes past the hour now.

This is happening in Italy. Finding a successor to former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi. Italy's president is meeting with the nation's top political leaders as many Italians celebrate Berlusconi's resignation.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

HOLMES: That is the scene last night outside the presidential palace where Italian politicians are meeting.

Our senior international correspondent Matthew Chance is live for us in Rome.

Matthew, they have put up with a lot from Berlusconi over the years. But it appears some at least are glad he's gone. Is that the sentiment for most people there? And also, what's next?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I was outside the president's palace last night when these songs were being sung. It was a very celebratory mood.

But it also turned a bit nasty, as well, when Silvio Berlusconi arrived to formally submit his resignation. There were jeers, there were chants of, you know, you're a joker, you're a gangster, you should be arrested and put in prison. People were very angry.

At one point, the police were struggling to keep the hundreds of people, the crowds, back there his motorcade. It got quite touchy at one point. He didn't actually come out, the situation was so bad. He slipped out through a side entrance, which is pretty ironic for a man who's been such an attention-grabbing, publicity seeker throughout the period of his -- in office. He went out pretty quietly. But, yet, there is this general mood in Italy that, you know, the end of an era has come and not a moment too soon for most people. In terms of what's going to happen next, well, the country's president now has to basically install a new caretaker government. Negotiations are underway at the moment to make that happen. We're expecting a decision by the end of the day.

HOLMES: All right. And, Matthew, at stake here, if you can for me in 30 seconds, what we have at stake is an economy. We've been talking a lot about Greece and their debt issues. But Italy really needs to be propped up.

MATTHEWS: Yes. Greece is a side show compared to Italy. Italy has debts of $2.6 trillion. If it fails, the Euro zone collapses. It's as serious as that.

HOLMES: All right. Serious as that and simple as that.

Matthew Chance for us there in Rome, thank you so much this morning.

We're at 23 minutes past the hour.

Police in riot gear standing by next to "Occupy" demonstrators on the streets of Portland, Oregon, right now. Live pictures. The deadline for the protesters to leave their encampment has come and gone. The demonstrators haven't gone anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: We're at 25 past the hour, 7:25 Eastern time here in Atlanta. It is 4:25 in Portland, Oregon.

That's where you're seeing a live picture right now. These aren't just taped pictures from earlier. This is happening live on the streets of Portland, Oregon. This is where Occupy demonstrators who have been in an encampment for the past several weeks -- well, the city and the police officers got fed up with that encampment, said it's a safety issue, ordered them to leave by midnight tonight.

Well, that deadline has come and gone. Some 4 1/2 hours ago. And as you see, the demonstrators have not gone anywhere.

Police are out in force. We have seen them in riot gear. We've seen police officers take a few people away, take them into custody.

But we've also gotten word that at least one police officer was injured when someone threw a projectile. We're told by the Portland police that that officer is going to be OK.

But we have been watching what's essentially a standoff for the past several hours. Neither side is really making a move. Police are standing by, like I said, in riot gear. But they haven't necessarily moved in to make arrests or force people to leave.

As far as the occupiers go, they haven't made much of a move either. They're standing their ground, if you will, staying in the same spot and vowing to stay in the encampment and not go anywhere.

I had one person a part of the demonstrations who's been there for the past several weeks saying this is a victory for us this evening. We're not going anywhere, plan to stay there indefinitely.

Now, what's the plan of the policy and the city of Portland? How are they going to combat? They essentially gave an eviction notice to people tonight. But that eviction notice -- well, that was up at midnight. That was some 4 1/2 hours ago.

It has been for the most part peaceful. Even the last several hours, it's gotten even more jovial out there. They have gotten in a better mood as we continue throughout the early morning hours. And more people seemed to join in the later that it got throughout the morning.

So, this has no sign of letting up in the near future. By the near future, I mean in the next few hours or next few days or even weeks according to some of the demonstrators. We're keeping a close eye on what's happening in the streets of Portland right now.

Quick break. Sanjay afterwards.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)