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Smerconish

Will Trump Agree To Debate?; Trump Says He Doesn't Control Laura Loomer, Calls Her A "Free Spirit"; Pope Criticizes Both Trump And Harris, Says Both Are "Against Life"; Caitlin Clark "Likes: Taylor Swift Harris Endorsement; Republicans Push Swing State Courts To Reject Mail-In Ballots; Election Officials Warn U.S. Postal Service May Delay Ballot Count. Trump May Soon Be Able To Access $2 Billion; Reagan: His Life And Legend. Aired 9-10a

Aired September 14, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NEHEMIAH DAVIS, ENTREPRENEUR: Like, I motivate people to also go do it, but if her business close, that might mean, you know what --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

DAVIS: -- this ain't for me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. It's for you --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

DAVIS: -- but you got to continue to go through no matter what's happening.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

AISHA TAYLOR ISSAH, FOUNDER AND CEO, "THE SISTAH SHOP" IN ATLANTA: I could never thank these gentlemen and all of the community members that came together to help us and are still helping us. We still have a ways to go, but the help that they are giving us, even beyond that day, is what's really going to make the difference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: To Nehemiah Davis, who helped organize this, and Sistah Shop's owner, Aisha Taylor Issa, I see you. And if you see something or someone I should see, tell me. I'm at Victor Blackwell on Socials, Instagram, X and TikTok.

Thank you so much for joining me today. First of all is going on a short hiatus. I'm taking two weeks off to go enjoy "The Warmth of Other Suns." I'll see you back here at Saturday October 5th. Smerconish is up next.

[09:00:52]

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: So will they or won't they? I'm Michael Smerconish in New York City. Today, ballots are now being cast in Alabama. We're 52 days away from the final day of voting, but whether there will be another debate remains in doubt. Tuesday night in Philadelphia ended with a nearly unanimous decision, but no knockout blow before it began, I said Donald Trump needed to exhibit discipline and Kamala Harris needed to show depth.

She met her mark, he missed his. I locked in my own assessment of the debate via X just prior to the delivery of closing statements before I might be swayed by anybody else's spin. Among my points that Trump's claims about migrants eating pets and abortions being performed at nine months would be a fact checkers dream, but not decisive. I wrote this, "She won the debate, but that does not mean the needle moved tonight. People will see what they wanted to see."

And polling suggests I was correct on both. According to a CNN poll of registered voters who watched the debate, 63 percent said Harris turned in a better performance. Only 37 percent said that about Trump. It's hard to imagine the debate having gone better for Harris. Unlike any prior Trump debate opponent, she surgically got under his skin, among other things, she forced a pre debate handshake and then mocked that which values he's valuing most.

She said that people leave his rallies from boredom and that even his beloved business school alma mater, Wharton, was critical of his economic plan. Trump looked dour. He cited fiction, and while his campaign has rightly noted the uneven application of fact checking by the moderators, he himself failed to fact check his opponent, and he missed countless opportunities to make his best case. The very first question was a take on the old, are you better off than you were four years ago, it went to the vice president. She didn't answer it, but Trump blew his rebuttal.

He failed to talk about inflation and world conflict and any number of other comparisons that would have advanced his cause. Trump knows he had a bad night. Why else would he last night have raised the ridiculous idea that she was wearing an earpiece so that she could be fed answers? But here's the thing, none of this may have mattered. The first post-debate poll of stature, a new Reuters/Ipsos poll finds virtually nothing has changed in the presidential race after Tuesday's debate.

By their metric, Harris gained just one point nationally. Before the debate, Reuters/Ipsos said Harris led 45 percent to Trump's 41. Post- debate, they found that Harris has 47 percent of support among registered voters nationwide while Trump stands at 42. And where the Electoral College inherently helps Republicans, even after the debate, Nate Silver gives Trump a 61 percent chance of winning. His analysis shows Harris with a national lead of 2.1 percent.

Remember, in 2016 a popular vote victory of 2 percent was not enough for Hillary Clinton to win the election, and this could explain why Trump appears in no hurry to commit to another debate. He initially claimed victory. He said no moss to another. And then yesterday said it depended upon his mood, which means it could be a roller coaster. I suspect he will commit, and if he doesn't, Harris has now raised enough money that she could buy 90 minutes of airtime and just air the first debate all over again.

It brings me to today's poll question at smerconish.com, will there be a second Harris-Trump debate? Joining me now, two of my favorites, Bakari Sellers, a CNN political commentator and Salena Zito, a national political reporter for "The Washington Examiner" and a contributor for The Wall Street Journal.

Bakari, to you, if that first debate didn't upend the race, it means we're going to be locked neck and neck till the end, right?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I do think this is a neck and neck race. And I would take it one step further and say that Kamala Harris is an underdog in this race. I mean, I think that's extremely clear. She continues to do the work necessary. She was in Pennsylvania yesterday.

She'll be back in Pennsylvania next Tuesday. But if you look at the swing states where this race will be won, if you look in Michigan, Pennsylvania, if you look in Wisconsin, Nevada, Arizona, North Carolina and Georgia. You know, these are razor thin margins. And this is going to be a marginal race and every vote is going to count. And you also see strategies, I mean, just things that people aren't necessarily paying attention to, Michael.

[09:05:05]

In North Carolina, for example, the kerfuffle that RFK caused, it actually is caused by taking his name off the ballot, actually has caused a two week delay in early voting. So these things that are going on around the country actually matter in what is a razor thin race?

SMERCONISH: I'm going to get to some of the ballot considerations in the next block of the program.

Salena, why does he pal around with Laura Loomer?

SALENA ZITO, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON EXAMINER: I have no idea. But as one voter told me, wouldn't it be great if he was instead had Nikki Haley on the plane, as opposed to Loomer. However, those are the things that don't matter to voters. And now, it does matter to a sliver, it might matter to enough that would sway someone's vote. But you know, there are still real issues that people are deeply concerned about, and I think both candidates need to talk about them in earnest, in a way that connects with the voter, sort of the way that that Bill Clinton used to say, I feel your pain, right?

Voters are looking for someone to say, I see what's going on in your community. I understand what is your problems in your family budget, and I want to help you in here is how we get there.

SMERCONISH: But Salena --

ZITO: We need to see more of that.

SMERCONISH: -- Salena, he courts -- ZITO: Yes, yes.

SMERCONISH: -- controversy like he deliberately brings up the migrant pet business, having to know that it's totally bogus. A must be a practitioner of the idea that bad publicity is better than no publicity. All he wants to do, Salena, is control every day's news cycle.

ZITO: Well, I will say they both court controversy. One happened in western Pennsylvania last week. She made the decision to go to Penzeys Spice. It is the easiest decision in the world when you go to a local town, in that case, it was Pittsburgh, my hometown, you always go to a locally owned business that is beloved and nobody thinks of as political. Instead, she goes to a franchise that is known for anti- semitic remarks and also calling Republicans fascist on their website.

So I think she does it much more subtly. That was definitely a choice. He just is, like, in your face with it.

SMERCONISH: Bakari, you're a smart lawyer. Put on your analytical hat and tell me what is Trump up to when he brings a 9/11 denier while be fair, she said, you know, inside job. That's horrible to a commemoration on the 23rd anniversary, and then floats the whole what's going on in Ohio where Bill DeWine and the mayor of that town have both now said it's totally bogus. And today, the new reporting is that the woman who was the origin of that story said she heard it from somebody else. I think it was her sister's brother's nephew's uncle.

I don't know. But what's he up to, Bakari?

SELLERS: I just think Donald Trump is a clearly diminished man. I think that the Donald Trump that we recall from the Hillary Clinton campaign when he was 70 years old is not the same Donald Trump that you see today at 78. The two campaigns and the two candidates are not alike. Last night, I listened to Kamala Harris give an interview in the Philadelphia market where she talked about, you know, making sure things were more affordable and being able to buy car seats, et cetera, et cetera. And you may not like her delivery, or people may say she meanders, but she's actually talking about issues that matter.

Then you -- the contrast is Donald Trump, who's talking about having a mass deportation of legal Haitian migrants in Ohio, back to Venezuela like that literally --

SMERCONISH: Right, to Venezuela.

SELLERS: -- that makes no sense whatsoever.

SMERCONISH: OK. But Bakari, Bakari, but your candidate is neck and neck. Let's go back to where we began.

SELLERS: Yes, I mean --

SMERCONISH: Why, in light of what we just said, is she not winning?

SELLERS: Listen, I think with the clear contrast between these voters, I wish that we were in a place where this race was not close, but she has to fight for every single vote. And let me just be extremely clear, Kamala Harris has to do three things. She has to push her margin up with African-American voters, particularly black men. We have to continue to see Donald Trump precipitously fall under 35 percent with Hispanic voters. And then this race is going to come down to college educated white women.

And it's do you want chaos of Donald Trump? Do we want to do this every day, talk about, they're eating your dog, they're eating your cat, they're eating your pets. Do we want to do that every day? Or do we want to have substantive policy discussions where, yes, me, you, Michael, Salena, we may disagree on policy or unrealized capital gains or tax or whatever it may be, but at least we're not talking about xenophobic rhetoric that is dividing our country. And that's the question.

SMERCONISH: Salena, Salena, the Pope, let's talk about the pontiff, the lesser of two evils. How do you interpret that?

ZITO: I did not know he said that. There are a myriad of -- a myriad of people that I wish did not get involved in politics. And you know, everyone can take it their own way, right? Everyone has a geographic and cultural perception of what that might mean. So for one person, it's going to mean Trump.

[09:10:20]

For the other person, it's going to mean Harris. And so, I don't put a lot of stock in celebrity or religious endorsements, but it's just a layer of one more thing to think about in this election.

SMERCONISH: OK, so, Bakari, let me ask you about a different influencer of this election, the Taylor Swift factor. How do you interpret it, and who had the right idea, Taylor Swift, who makes an endorsement, or Caitlin Clark, who liked it? And then everybody says, well, wait a minute, if you like it, does that mean you're in the same camp?

SELLERS: Shout out to both of those amazing young ladies. And let me just tell you, I am a Swifty, but I'm also a South Carolina women's basketball fan, and so we've had our battles with Caitlin Clark enough, but I appreciate the fact that she's actually utilizing her platform, both of them.

Vote.org actually had 360,000 voter registration sign ups. If you go and look at state by state, swing states where these elections matter, I will actually say that this endorsement may mean something around the margins. Is it going to sway this race two or three points? No, it's not. But is it going to sway this race 10,000 votes here or 15,000 votes here?

The answer is yes. And the other thing I tell you, Michael is, I'm really, really happy that Taylor Swift came out on the right side of history. But I've called Beyonce a couple of times and she hasn't picked up my call. I don't know if I have the wrong number or what, but that's the endorsement that I'm waiting on. I really want to see what Beyonce is going to do, and I know she's tired of me texting and calling her.

SMERCONISH: Salena if it's a game of inches, and we all agree that it is, might this be outcome determinative, Taylor Swift's endorsement?

ZITO: I actually would point to the endorsement last night that was given in Nevada by Rick from Pawn Stars. It was emotional, it was gutting, and it was a story about his son and fentanyl. And if you're going to give an endorsement, put something deep behind it. And I thought that -- I mean, if we're going to go with celebrity endorsements, that -- to me, that was one that was really, really potent and powerful.

SMERCONISH: Salena, you got your touches in earlier this morning somewhere else. I love it. You did the prelim over there. Then you came here for the real show. Bakari, who are your people? That's what I want to know.

OK. Thank you, guys.

SELLERS: Another discussion. Another discussion.

SMERCONISH: Nice to see you both.

What are your thoughts? Hit me up on social media. I'll react to some throughout the course of the program. Catherine (ph) is down the hall from me today. You know how I'm always saying, like, Hey, Catherine, what do we have?

And I'm in Philly. No, she's like, 20 yards away here in New York City. Kind of cool. Hannity question Harris and Joy Reid question, Trump. That would be an interesting and hilarious says, Rick.

You know, I think that when, when Trump says, oh, I'd like it to be on Fox, although I don't want it to be with Bret and with Martha. He's like, picking the whole line-up that he wants. He'd be better served if he said I'd like to go over to MSNBC. I'm willing to come and debate in front of Rachel, you know, or Joy Reid, for crying out loud. Then you would say, OK, he's willing to go into the lion's den. I still say he does it again.

And you know why it's not so much, because of what the polling says he must do, I just don't think that he can avoid a spotlight with -- what was the number, 71 million people watching? I want to know what you think. Go to my website at smerconish.com answer today's poll question, will there be a second Harris Trump debate?

Up ahead with the election only 52 days away, I should say the final day of voting, top election officials across the country raising concerns about delays in the United States Postal Service. Are voters at risk of having their ballots getting lost in the mail? My next guest is the Kansas Secretary of State. He thinks the Pony Express would have likely done a better job. And be sure to sign up for my daily newsletter. Come on, look what Steve Breen drew for us this week at smirconish.com

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:18:33]

SMERCONISH: The presidential election may all come down to one state, Pennsylvania. And on Friday, the state's supreme court threw out a lower court decision ruling that mail-in ballots marked with incorrect dates or no dates at all on the outer envelope will not be counted in the general election. Just a reminder of how close it could be, in 2020 Biden narrowly won P.A. by 1.2 percentage points. In 2022 more than 10,000 mail-in ballots in the Commonwealth's midterm election were tossed out due to dating errors.

Pennsylvania isn't the only battleground state where Republicans are demanding their election officials reject certain mail-in ballots that fail to comply with their state laws. In North Carolina, the GOP suing to throw out ballots if the inner secrecy envelope is not fully sealed. In Georgia, they're fighting to have ballots thrown out if the voter fails to accurately write their birthday on the outer envelope. In Michigan, they're suing for stricter rules on matching signatures. And in Nevada, mail-in ballots can be received three days after the election, so long as they were postmarked by November 5, but Republicans are suing to have those ballots tossed as well.

As a result of all of these legal battles, we might not have a clear or immediate winner on election night. According to "The New York Times," more Americans are using mail-in ballots which take longer to count than those cast in person. This is also putting a lot of pressure on the U.S. Postal Service. Just this week, nearly three dozen local and state election officials sounded the alarm about failures like lost or delayed election. In mail, inconsistent guidelines for training postal workers and higher rates of mail being returned to voters as, quote, "undeliverable."

[09:20:07]

In a statement to CNN, the U.S. Postal Service says, "We were successful in 2020 delivering a historic volume of mail-in ballots, also in 2022 and will do so again in November 2024.

Joining me now is the Kansas Secretary of State, Scott Schwab, who noted in his own letter to the Postmaster General that roughly 1,000 voters in Kansas were disenfranchised in the most recent primary due to the Postal Service's administrative failures.

Thanks so much for being here, Mr. Secretary. So, in your recent primary, 18 percent voted by mail, then what happened?

SCOTT SCHWAB, KANSAS SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, here's the frustration, is states have rights we have a very federalist policy as it relates to elections. And states have right to make policy as it relates to elections, then Kansas has a simple one, just postmark the ballot, and the post office says they will, and we had ballots show up on Election Day, which means they were legally cast that weren't postmarked, but because of the law, they were thrown out, and all you have to do is just post market. And even in the OIG report, the post office said we are not following our own guidelines. And this is frustrating when in local elections, oftentimes we have close results and the post office is basically suppressing voters.

SMERCONISH: Do you think that it's because of poor training that maybe some of the postal employees, they think, oh, this is an official ballot. It doesn't require our postmark?

SCHWAB: That's hearsay. I don't know. I just know that is probably training, is probably funding, is probably laziness. It's probably not making it a priority. It's a conglomerate of issues. But for cycle after cycle after cycle, the post office delivers great on excuses, but they don't deliver great on ballots, and they never provide solutions or a plan to say how we're going to do better.

SMERCONISH: You wrote your own letter, as I referenced to the Postmaster General. Did you get a response?

SCHWAB: Not yet.

SMERCONISH: So, in my home state of Pennsylvania, I -- my reaction to reading about what's going on, if you'll pardon the pun, "What's the Matter with Kansas," to think of the book title. My reaction was to say, OK, well, then maybe they ought to use drop offs. But that doesn't work in a rural state like yours, the way that it does work in a state like mine, right?

SCHWAB: No, no. Actually it does work. I want a heated primary and 2022 campaigning on drop boxes which are owned by the county, because in Liberal Kansas, which is in the southwest corner of our state, is closer to Santa Fe New Mexico than it is to Kansas City. If you mail your ballot in Liberal Kansas, it goes to Lubbock, Texas, to go to Kansas City, to show up across the street, just use a drop box. But oftentimes that's not an option for voters.

Some people, whether it's a paraplegic, stroke victims, people that have limit physical capabilities, they have to use the post office, and the post office is not making them a priority. And it's frustrating. And by the way, being from Pennsylvania, Al Schmidt, you've got a great Secretary right there.

SMERCONISH: He was my guest last week. So look, I -- your state's not among the seven. We don't talk a lot about the outcome of Kansas in the presidential race. I was eager to have you here because I think this is a window into some of the complications being experienced across the country. And if it's all as close as people forecast, these factors are going to kick in.

SCHWAB: I think it's massive. In the post office is not taken it clearly -- they're clearly not taken as serious as they should. In 2020, they -- there was an uptick in success by the post office, it's because all eyes were on them, because so many places were going to mail ballots only because they're closing down in person voting. That's not the case so much anymore, and so the eyes are off them, so it seems like they're just not taking it seriously. So yes, I wrote the letter to get eyes on them and people would take it seriously, because your vote may not count.

In House District 51 in Leavenworth, Kansas, it was decided by 22 votes. If 60 ballots showed up legally, that could change it, but because a post office didn't do typical things they should do, that -- the will of the people may not have reflected in what we certified in the election because of a federal agency.

SMERCONISH: So give me the 22nd takeaway to people who are viewing this from all over the country now and contemplating voting by mail. Are you spooking them into not casting a mail ballot and instead making sure they show up?

SCHWAB: Not well, if you -- always voting in person, is always the most secure way to secure that your vote gets counted, but if you're doing advance by mail, use a drop box that's run by the county and is secure. Give it to the county election officials. Give it to a polling place. Give it to any advanced early voting place, but don't ever give your ballot to the federal government.

SMERCONISH: Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here. I hope you get response from the Postal Service.

[09:25:00]

SCHWAB: Thank you, Michael, have good morning.

SMERCONISH: More social media reaction. What do we have, from world of X, formerly known as Twitter? "Mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania are clearly specified unconstitutional, except for your left wing, politicized Supreme Court has ruled otherwise. As the respected attorney that you are, you know this." Oh, look who wrote that, my old friend, Roger Stone.

You remember the days when he used to compliment me on my sartorial splendor. Put it back up. Let me read it again now that I know it's coming from Roger. What does he say? Mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania are clearly specified unconstitutional, except for your left.

Roger, here's my take on this. OK? My take on this is that if my mail- in ballot arrives on time, and the local Board of Elections received it on time, and they know that it came in on time. And if I neglected to write a date on the exterior of the envelop or I wrote the wrong date, but you got it on time, then you ought to count my ballot.

Otherwise, it's just so damn persnickety, and I think it is a disenfranchisement. But thank you, sir, for watching. You're good for my demographic.

What else do we have? TC (ph) or TC. Listen to me, Catherine, TC is my radio producer. Philip, vote in person with ID, unless active military are those living away from home, make Election Day a federal holiday, and most of the excuses for not being able to vote in person wash away.

I know, I'm not cool with that. I like the mingling that takes place on Election Day, when you go out and actually interact with people at the polls. But I also like being able to sit at my kitchen table and open up my laptop if it's the school board election and you really don't know those candidates, or township supervisor or tax collector, and do a little research. And yes, you could say you could do that in advance. I think it's more handy.

I just want more people voting, and the postal service needs to instil some confidence in the state of Kansas and everywhere else.

I want to remind you, go to my website at smerconish.com, will there be a second Harris-Trump debate. Still to come, by this time next week, Donald Trump's bank account could be a whole lot bigger. The reason is coming up. Make sure you're subscribing to my newsletter. It costs nothing, and it's worthy at smerconish.com. Now check out what Rob Rogers drew for us exclusively this week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:31:50]

SMERCONISH: Donald Trump seemingly putting to rest rumors that he may cash in on his Truth Social media business.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Media shares are down about 75 percent from their peak in March. Your lockdown provision ends soon. Will you sell your shares?

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I'm not selling. No, I love it. I mean, I use it as a method of getting out my word.

You know, when it opened, it went way high. But then, the SEC gave us nothing but problems. We had to go through a long, long process with the SEC. But people think that I'm leaving that's why they're down. Because if I leave, you know, it's different if I leave, but I'm not leaving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: That sent the stock on a rocket ride surging 25 percent just days after it tumbled to record lows following his debate with Vice President Harris. And it comes as Trump prepares to make an even more business move, less than two months until Election Day on Monday, he'll unveil his new crypto business. A lot to discuss.

Joining me again is Erik Hirsch, co-CEO of Hamilton Lane, with over 900 billion of assets under management and supervision. Hamilton Lane, one of the leading private markets investment firms in the world. So, Erik, he says he's not selling, but can he still and how would that work if he did?

ERIK HIRSCH, CO-CEO, HAMILTON LANE: Good morning, Michael. Great to be back.

He absolutely can sell. So, his lockup ends early next week, as long as the stock remains sort of stable. But in order to do that, he's going to have to file paperwork.

So that's going to be a publicly disclosed event. And so, shareholders would certainly get notice of that to the extent that they're following the stock closely and following the news.

SMERCONISH: So, on paper, how much has he made?

HIRSCH: So, on paper, his stake today based on Friday's close is about $2.1 billion.

SMERCONISH: Oh, my God.

HIRSCH: So, this has been quite a ride. It got as high as almost $7 billion. And so, it's back down. But down is still over $2 billion of paper gain today.

SMERCONISH: Who owns this stock? Is there any investment money? I mean, I have this image of some red state investors who might not be too sophisticated, but they believe in Donald Trump. What's the reality as best we can tell?

HIRSCH: So, this company went public via a SPAC. So, it was basically a merger between a special purpose acquisition vehicle and Truth Social, which now results in this stock called DJT. And if you look at the ownership group, it's interesting and a little bit unique for a stock. So, about 66 percent of it is actually owned by insiders with Trump representing the vast majority of that. He owns over 50 percent of the total number of shares.

So, 66 percent with insiders, about 7 percent with institutional investors, which is quite small on a relative basis. And then the balance, so a little about 30 percent, are owned by individuals.

SMERCONISH: Is it a real business? I mean, is the play here that Trump gets elected president, and this becomes his communication vehicle of choice, in which case it occurs to me, he would then have to really compete with Elon Musk who is now one of his primary benefactors.

HIRSCH: Today, it is a rival business in its current line of function to X. Is it a real business? It is. It exists and it's there. It has revenue, although that revenue is measured in sort of millions of dollars. And today, it's actually generating pretty significant cash losses.

[09:35:02]

So, it hasn't turned to profit yet. And Trump is talking about whether he's going to expand into other business areas which he may do. But I think you're right, there are certainly a number of investors who are looking at the stock as a play on sort of Trump's success overall.

SMERCONISH: But, Erik, given the volatility, given the ups and downs already of Truth Social, people have made money. And presumably people have lost money to date. He's not one of them because he's been tied up. But what do we know about who's making and losing?

HIRSCH: Well, both things are true. Every time there is a stock trade, someone is buying and someone is selling. And you're absolutely right, Michael, that the stock has been incredibly volatile. So, we've gotten as high as basically $80.00 a share and then come down as low as about $16.00 a share. And the volatility has been significant and the volume.

So, this is a company that's worth about $3 billion. So, what we considered a real small-cap stock. And despite that, on average, it trades about 8 million shares a day. So, there's a lot of action around this company. It has aspects of being a meme stock.

SMERCONISH: Let me go back to where we began. So, you said that on paper, he's got a $2 billion net worth from this alone. It reminds me and you would know better and could cite examples, but history is replete with individuals who during the whole IPO lockup process have had a paper net worth that is staggering, but by the time they're able to cash out it's gone. Say something about that.

HIRSCH: It's very difficult when you're a huge owner of a relatively small business to liquidate your shares entirely particularly a company that is so closely associated with you and with your success. Today, Trump owns about 115 million shares. So again, 8 million shares a day of trading, average volume is pretty significant. But to try to then unload 115 million shares will be very difficult.

SMERCONISH: And one last thought. This time, I mean it. I mean nothing stops anybody who's an investor in it today from selling. Because I keep thinking the moment that he sells then the value of it presumably, tell me if I'm wrong, is going to collapse. But nothing stops any of those investors, institutional money, or ma-and-pas (ph), whoever they might be, from right now selling.

HIRSCH: That's absolutely correct, Michael. And in fact, yesterday was a good example of that. So, during his press conference when he said, I'm not selling, the shares began to rocket upwards as you noted. But what also rocketed upwards was the volume.

So, yesterday, 25 million shares traded hands. So, plenty of opportunity for people to get in and to get out.

SMERCONISH: I feel like Billy Ray Valentine, Capricorn, from "Trading Places." I get it now. You all are a couple of bookies. Thank you, Erik.

HIRSCH: Bye for now.

SMERCONISH: By for now. Social media. What do we have?

If people can't afford bacon, how can they afford to buy this junk?

Well, is it junk? Is it junk? I mean, it seems like if he wins and if this becomes, you know, the alternative to X, formerly Twitter, as I pointed out to Erik Hirsch, and means he's really got to be a direct competitor with Elon Musk, maybe there's a business model that it makes sense. I don't know, but I'm fascinated by it.

Still to come, former President Ronald Reagan is viewed as one of the most dominant political forces in modern American history. My next guest is a Pulitzer Prize finalist with a new book about Reagan's life and legacy. It's terrific. Don't forget to vote on today's poll question at Smerconish.com. Will there be a second Harris-Trump debate? Be sure to sign up for my newsletter when you're there. It's free, it's worthy.

And check out what Steve Breen drew for the newsletter this week. I love that. And here's a different take from Jack Ohman.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:43:30]

SMERCONISH: Ronald Reagan was one of the dominant political figures of the 20th century, which makes it all the more surprising that his life was not reflected in a definitive biography until now. And that's thanks to Max Boot, the historian, foreign policy analyst, senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, and of course, "The Washington Post" columnist. He spent more than a decade researching and writing all 700 plus pages of "Reagan: His Life and Legend," and he joins me now.

Congratulations on the book, Max. Read it, loved it. You traveled to places special to the Reagan story. Which of those locales put you in his shoes?

MAX BOOT, AUTHOR, "REAGAN: HIS LIFE AND LEGEND": Well, I think it was really his ranch near Santa Barbara, Michael, that really told me more than any other location about who Ronald Reagan really was. I mean, if anybody has been there, you'll see that it's a very modest breath. You know, it has got a beautiful location, lots of land, but the house itself is very modest.

I mean, it has Formica counters. It has G.E. appliances. The books are these well-thumbed volumes that Reagan actually read. It wasn't like these things that, you know, these covers that interior designers put up.

The whole thing -- I mean, all the decor looks like it could have been scavenged or flea market, but this was Ronald Reagan's favorite place in the world. He said that, you know, if this wasn't heaven, at least have the same zip code. So, I think that tells you what was really important to him.

And it wasn't glitz and it wasn't glamour. He really enjoyed, you know, riding horses, chopping wood, and then returning to this very modest ranch house at night. That's the real Ronald Reagan.

SMERCONISH: His name is synonymous with conservatism but your portrait of Reagan is much more nuanced and much more pragmatic.

[09:45:09]

BOOT: Well, that's one of the central paradoxes of Reagan, Michael, is that he could be very ideological and, you know, he was often quite far to the right, especially in the 60s and 70s. And a warning that, you know, social welfare programs like Medicare and Medicaid were going to lead to a socialist or even communist takeover of the United States.

But once he was in office, he pivoted to the center and turned out to be supremely pragmatic. I mean, in fact, his -- the first big bill he signed as governor of California in 1967 was a large increase in spending and taxes to deal with the looming budget deficit.

I mean, he signed one of the most liberal abortion laws in the country in both Sacramento and Washington. He cut deals with Democrats. And ultimately, his crowning achievement as president was working with Mikhail Gorbachev, the world's number one communist, to peacefully end the Cold War, despite a long career as an anti-communist.

So, I think that shows you why he was ultimately successful as president. He was able to pivot to the center, compromise, and get things done.

SMERCONISH: His son, Ron Jr., referred to him as a plainly decent man. You talk in the book about how Reagan, especially on the campaign trail, sometimes from those note cards with which he relied on, which he relied, would stretch the truth.

But he was not a prevaricator. He was not a liar. He was a very decent guy who believed -- I'll say it this way, Max. He believed everything he was saying.

BOOT: That's absolutely correct. I mean, I think if I fault him for one thing, it is that he sometimes did not delve too deeply into the factual accuracy of what he was saying because, you know, he was a voracious reader. And he read a lot of dubious sources, some of which were, you know, repeating ideological or apocryphal claims. And then he had a real steel trap memory. He could remember these things and he would also write them a note cards. And so, he would tend to repeat them time after time.

So, he had all sorts of faux quote, he liked to slide from communist leaders revealing their supposed plots against the United States. He had some very dubious statistics he liked to cite but he was not actively trying to deceive anybody.

This was completely important. I don't think anybody would ever claim that Ronald Reagan was intentionally lying. He would never do such a thing. He really believed what he was saying. He just wasn't, you know, focused enough sometimes on the factual accuracy of what he was saying.

SMERCONISH: Ronald Reagan was -- he turned 78 right after leaving office. Donald Trump would be older going in for a second term than Reagan was coming out. I only have 30 seconds but react to that age issue.

BOOT: Well, it became an issue for Reagan because although I didn't find any evidence that he had Alzheimer's while he was in office, there is no question he was slowing down. By the end of his presidency, he was not as actively involved than he was at the beginning. More decisions were being made by aides like George Shultz, and Colin Powell, and Frank Carlucci, and others. So, you know, I would have grave doubts about, you know, Trump's ability to do the job at such an advanced age. Reagan was certainly -- you know, was able to do it, but it became much more difficult as he aged.

SMERCONISH: Well, it's a relative thing, right? We're not all 80 at the same way or in the same way. The book is great. Thank you. Appreciate you being here, Max.

BOOT: Thanks for having me, Michael.

SMERCONISH: You still got time to vote on today's poll question at Smerconish.com. Will there be a second Harris-Trump debate? Sign up for that newsletter while you're there. Now, here's another drawing Scott Stantis drew for us this week.

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[09:53:15]

SMERCONISH: So, there's the result so far. Wow, definitive. I hate round numbers. Will there be a second Harris-Trump debate? Thirty-one thousand and change have voted, and 75 percent, say no.

Count me among the 25 percent. I don't think that he'll be able to avoid the glare of those spotlights. He's going to want to be in it, especially where 71 million people watched the first debate.

Social media reaction that has come in during the course of the program. I don't trust DeJoy and his team to get the ballots counted. Will be voting in person.

Well, the conversation that I had with the Kansas secretary of state gives you another option which is pursue the drop-off opportunity, if you don't want to put it in the mail. I wouldn't stay away from mail- in voting because of your concerns about the postal service but go use a drop-off if that's the alternative available to you. More social media, what else came in?

Trump keeps his base in line by playing chicken little. It doesn't matter how far-fetched things. His hope is that more of his base actually votes. But his backup plan is to have the election thrown out into the House.

I mean, it's the question that I asked of Salena Zito. Why pal around with a 911 denier? Somebody who believes that it was an inside job. Why assert that craziness about migrants eating pets? Totally bogus. He just wants to be in the cycle and controlling it every single day.

And guess what? It has worked for him. It has worked for him. He has proven there's no such thing as bad publicity. More social media reaction.

The Pope advising to choose between the lesser of two evils, not meaning the presidential candidates themselves, but rather policies of anti-migrant versus abortion. Yes, but where one of the candidates is associated with a pro-choice stance and the other associated with an anti-migrant stance.

[09:55:08]

You know who he's talking about. I thought it was really interesting what he said. The part of what the pontiff said that I most agree with is he first said everybody needs to go and vote. More social reaction.

Michael, nobody is talking about this but endorsements by Elon Musk and Bobby Kennedy and Dave Portnoy will really help Trump. All have huge active followings. Especially Musk who is the wealthiest man in the world. All self-made in fields that are essential for mankind.

No, I'm talking about it, Kat D. I'm talking about it, especially in terms of the impact. The greatest divide by age on gender lines is among Gen Zers. And there are distinctly different approaches being taken by these two candidates to reach young women and young men. And I'm paying very close attention to that.

Keep voting at Smerconish.com. Sign up for the daily newsletter when you're there. And I'll see you next week.

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