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Smerconish

Trump Says Tesla Vandals Will Be Caught And Prosecuted; Should Acts Of Vandalism Against Tesla Vehicles Be Prosecuted As Hate Crimes?; Disarray Among Democrats Amid A Search For Leadership; Sen. Chris Coons, (D-DE), Is Interviewed About Democrat Leadership, Chuck Schumer. What Happens When Men Prefer Porn. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired March 22, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:24]

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, have you heard the Tesla car has a new option. Flaming or non-flaming. I'm Michael Smerconish in Philadelphia.

Not to make light of a serious issue. It's just that an innocent electric car, once the symbol of proud progressives trying to save the planet, has become the focus of misplaced hate. The fight that they've got is with Tesla Motors owner Elon Musk and his Department of Government Efficiency, which they claim is dismantling government. And that's a nice way of putting it. Sometimes they call it a couple and Musk a Nazi.

Next Saturday on March 29, protesters around the world will participate in a Tesla takedown with 500 demonstrations at Tesla showrooms. As one Instagram post has it, let's send these techno fascist broligarchs and old fashioned Nazis a message loud and clear. Harsh words. If only it remained just words. Unfortunately, some anti- Muskers believe actions speak louder.

And so around the world, people are attacking Teslas. They've defaced them, they've shot at them. They've even thrown Molotov cocktails at them, proving that gasoline and Teslas don't mix. And sorry if you thought that joke was in bad taste, but at least I'm laughing with Tesla, not the attackers. Contrast that with "The Daily Show" audience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JORDAN KLEPPER, "THE DAILY SHOW" CO-HOST: Some people are not content to just scream about Elon in a high school gym, they're taking to the streets or the parking lots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight, the FBI and ATF now investigating multiple cases of possible arson targeting Teslas and Cybertrucks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This dramatic video shows multiple cars in flames. Police say the attacker used Molotov cocktails. It's the latest in more than a dozen instances of arson and vandalism targeting Tesla.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The same suspect shot more Teslas with a gun. Tesla's Cybertrucks were set on fire in Kansas City. And earlier this month, shots fired at a Tesla dealership in Oregon. Cybertrucks on fire in Seattle.

KLEPPER: Wow, you guys like petty acts of domestic terrorism, huh?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: The crowd's reaction reminds me of those who cheered for Luigi Mangione after he was charged for the murder of a health care executive. Likely due at least in part to Musk's unpopularity, the value of Tesla Motors has plummeted. Sales have slumped. Some are cheering the decline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've got that little stock app. I added Tesla to give me a little boost during the day. Two twenty five and dropping.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: Others are calling on Musk to step down as CEO. This is a lot more than a business story. The question becomes what do you do about the perpetrators? And discussing it on my Sirius XM radio program this week, I was surprised at the number of my callers eager to rationalize all the violence. But the FBI certainly isn't doing that.

They issued a PSA warning the public to be on the lookout for various indicators that could be precursors to planned attacks. The Trump administration is also taking it seriously. Attorney General Pam Bondi called the attacks nothing short of domestic terrorism. She's already charged three individuals with Tesla related violence. According to the DOJ, one man, while armed with an AR15 rifle, threw approximately eight Molotov cocktails at a dealership in Salem, Oregon.

A woman in Loveland, Colorado tried to light Teslas on fire with Molotov cocktails and was later found with materials that could produce more incendiary weapons. A man in Charleston, South Carolina wrote profane messages against President Trump at Tesla charging stations before lighting the stations on fire with Molotov cocktails. In response, President Trump posted on Truth Social a message of his own, "I look forward to watching the sick terrorist thugs get 20-year jail sentences for what they're doing to Elon Musk and Tesla. Perhaps they could serve them in the prisons of El Salvador, which have become so recently famous for such lovely conditions."

Trump expresses himself in his usual unrestrained way, but behind the no holds bar response, there seems to be a point. These attacks don't just damage cars and car lots and charging stations, they create an aura of fear for all who own Teslas or might want to own one. And that's how terror works. Isolated examples of violence making millions feel unsafe. No doubt that's why anti-Tesla militants have doxed Tesla people. One website called DOGE Quest put out an interactive map revealing the names, addresses and phone numbers of Tesla owners, as well as Tesla dealerships throughout the U.S.

The map uses the image of a Molotov cocktail as a cursor. Those in charge of the site do promise, however, to remove people's information if they can prove they've sold their car.

[09:05:00]

Hey, here's a consistency test for you. Anyone who objected to the notorious 2010 Sarah Palin map. You remember the one that listed representatives in close districts who voted for Obamacare and put crosshairs on their districts, well, they ought to be offended by the map now being used to single out Tesla people. Meanwhile, there have also been swatting incidents where somebody calls the cops to claim a serious crime is going down at a Tesla owner's house. A SWAT team shows up ready for action. God forbid somebody gets seriously injured or killed in that circumstance.

The White House treating anti-Tesla criminals as domestic terror. It raises an interesting legal question. What does that actually entail? Because while the Patriot Act defines the phrase domestic terrorism, it's not a crime in and of itself. Defendants in federal court have to be charged with something else.

So maybe we need to rethink the idea of a hate crime, expand the definition. It's a federal charge. Already has some overlap with domestic terror. A hate crime requires not just a standard level of criminal offense like arson or vandalism, but also has to be motivated by a bias against a civil rights category such as race or gender, religion, sexuality.

Why not add one's political persuasion to the list? Hate crime laws exist to aid groups that feel they're being targeted. Why should anyone have to fear because they voted for a particular candidate or even bought a particular car? People on the left who bought Tesla's when they thought it was cool and now hate Musk and can't find a buyer, they might be the next victim after all.

In truth, I have questions about hate crimes because to me, every crime has an element of hate in it. But if we're going to have hate crimes on the books, and we most certainly do have them, this is one that should probably make the list. Got to fight fire with fire in this circumstance. Voting is a basic civil right. And the people who want to send a message through criminal acts designed to attack along political lines, they've got to be answered firmly.

Treating them as everyday criminals misses the danger that such people represent to a free society and democracy. You probably know that Tesla Motors is named after Nikola Tesla, the great inventor. He was controversial in his era, had highly eccentric behavior, believed in unconventional ideas that many considered fantasies, and fought with the powerful Thomas Edison in the so called war of the currents AC versus DC. But in time, many of his ideas won out. Today, Tesla, Nikola Tesla is celebrated.

If he were still around, he'd probably have new ideas and still be treated as a crackpot, which would be fine as long as they didn't destroy his inventions to show how they felt about him.

Now let's get to the poll question of the day. Elon Musk seems to garner controversy wherever he goes. After the "New York Times reported" that Musk was to receive a Pentagon briefing on secret war plans for China, Musk called the report pure propaganda, said that he looked forward to prosecution of those who leaked such malicious and false information. "The Times" standing by their story.

Regardless of the accuracy of that report, it raises an interesting question, given his expertise. This is today's poll question at smerconish.com, considering Elon Musk's experience in technology and defense, should he have a role in advising the Pentagon on national defense strategies?

Joining me now is CNN Senior Legal Analyst, former Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Elie Honig.

OK, Elie, if someone spray paints a church or a synagogue, we treat them differently than if they spray paint a subway stop. So where in that continuum does Tesla violence fall?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Michael, at this point, violence aimed at Tesla, even if it is politically motivated would not classify, would not qualify as a hate crime. And to your question about, well, why shouldn't political affiliation be added to the list of hate crime categories? I think there's two answers there. The first one is constitutional. As you said, over time, we in our courts have developed a short list of protected categories, race, religion, national origin.

Those are seen as inherently suspect. And there's never been an addition of political views by the Supreme Court to that list. And I think the second concern here is with respect to how broad it would be if we added politics to that list, if we said you can't -- to discriminate, to commit a crime based on someone's politics. I think the question is where does that end? How broadly exactly does that go?

So as we sit here right now, one's political views or affiliation are not included in the list of hate crimes discrimination bases.

SMERCONISH: OK. Elie Honig comes to Philadelphia to watch, I presume, your beloved Giants, although not recently. Maybe the Jets sans Aaron Rodgers. OK. And you're wearing some, you know, Giant garb or Jet garb and somebody in Philadelphia, not that this would ever happen, but treats you inhospitably. I guess your argument is that by this slippery slope, we could be looking at that as a hate crime?

[09:10:10]

HONIG: OK, first of all, we need a serious fact check here. I am Eagles all the way from birth. Forget about this Giant Jet stuff. But I'll take your -- I'll take your hypothetical here. So this is exactly the problem.

Let's say were to add politics to the list of prohibited categories, that if you make an attack, if you commit a crime against someone based on their politics, that counts as a hate crime. Here's the problem. Let me give you an example. I grew up in a town, I think you did, too, where it was divided into an east side and a west side. Right?

Now, there's a friendly element to that rivalry. There's the annual football game, but there's also a real political element there.

SMERCONISH: True.

HONIG: How do we assess property taxes? Who gets to sit on the school board? How does funding work? Well, let's say on the one hand, you threw a brick through a window of a synagogue, a church, or a mosque, that clearly would be a hate crime. What if, though, somebody from the east side threw a brick through the window of a car of somebody from the west side with a note attached that said, east rules, west sucks?

Well, would that be political? And is that deserving of being elevated to the level of a hate crime, like the way an attack on a church, a synagogue, or a mosque would be?

SMERCONISH: I get it. It's confusing. And look, I said at the outset that I've got problems with the whole notion of hate crimes based on some First Amendment issues. But let me ask a different question of Elie Honig. I want to ask you the Luigi Mangione question.

When you see the violence against Tesla and when you see the reaction of that live audience for "The Daily Show," what does it say to you as a prosecutor about the difficulty of picking a jury and of the bias, given the political time in which we live, of being able to try a case against one of these perpetrators?

HONIG: Well, first of all, it's lunacy that people are in any way supporting or applauding this. It would give me some concern. I mean, that reaction that you showed in that shot from "The Daily Show" was astonishing. And I would be concerned about this if I was picking a jury. An important thing to keep in mind, though, whether this is a hate crime or not, and it's not technically based on the law now, whether this is domestic terrorism or not, it is always going to be a crime to commit an act of vandalism, it is always going to be a crime to commit arson or to throw a Molotov cocktail, an incendiary device.

So, I think you always have at least that fallback. But absolutely, I'd be concerned when picking a jury about is this the type of person who's going to sympathize with the criminal here?

SMERCONISH: Elie, stick around for a moment. I've got social media reaction. I might need to lean on you for support. Let's see what we've got. Put it up on the screen, Katherine (ph).

Thank you.

I don't put property damage on the same moral level as the wanton destruction of democracy. What other means of fighting back are available?

My answer to Scrappy McBuckyball, love the moniker, would be, your recourse comes in the midterm election. Your recourse comes in town halls and the protests that right now are taking place among elected officials. I mean, that's the recourse you have. That reminds me, Elie, I was so floored by how many of my callers were rationalizing this somehow. What's your thought?

HONIG: Yes, I had the same reaction. And I do want to say one important distinction that we make here is it is different to attack somebody based on their race, religion, their national origin than it is based on their politics. And again, to give you another example, Michael, let's use the same example. Throwing a brick through a window of a church, mosque or synagogue on the one hand, versus throwing a brick through the window of, let's say, your local member of Congress's district office. We collectively, our courts, our Congress, have made a judgment that the second one is absolutely a crime, but it's not quite on the level.

It doesn't need to be elevated like the former, like an attack based on religion or race. But again, this rationalizing of what is, whether it's a hate crime or not, what is absolutely inarguably a crime, look, it's a recipe for lawlessness and chaos. And the same people who complain about violation of rule of law cannot be justifying outright criminal conduct.

SMERCONISH: Right, I agree. And I wanted to discuss this today in anticipation of next Saturday the way this is being sort of trumpeted, no pun intended, online about this day of civil unrest. Look, go out and protest against Musk, Tesla, Trump, everybody, just don't be violent about it.

Elie, thank you, as always. You know how much we value --

HONIG: Thanks, Michael.

SMERCONISH: -- your contribution here. I should -- I should add one other area where in the hate crime category, I do believe, no brainer, elevate the crime because if you murder a cop, you know, if you murder a cop, in my view, that ought to be automatic death penalty as compared to murder of a non-police officer. Just saying.

Elon Musk, he called the "New York Times" reporting over getting a Pentagon briefing about secret China war plans, quote, "pure propaganda." Said that he looked forward to the prosecution of those who leaked such malicious and false information.

I've got, you know, my copy of the "Times" right here. They're standing by their story. Whatever the facts may be, it raises this interesting question. Go to smerconish.com and cast a ballot on today's poll question, considering his experience in technology and defense, should he have a role in advising the Pentagon on national defense strategies? Not getting the China war plan, obviously, but do you want there to be room in the tent for his expertise?

[09:15:19]

Up ahead, the Democratic Party is struggling, looking for leadership. NBC reporting former President Joe Biden, former first lady Jill Biden have offered to jump in and help with fundraising and rebuilding. How will the party respond? Delaware Senator Chris Coons will address that with us, and also what he thinks of his colleague's rationale regarding this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: No one wants to fight more than me, and no one fights more than me. You got to fight smart. It is not true -- that bill had far less -- it was bad. I hated it. But it does far less damage.

There are many fewer cuts in that bill than that would be in a shutdown.

SUNNY HOSTIN, "THE VIEW" CO-HOST: But they still exist.

SCHUMER: It was a bad choice. So we got to -- yes, they exist. But if you have two --

HOSTIN: If it worked with the card you have.

SCHUMER: -- if you have two choices, one bad, the other devastating. One chops off one of your fingers, the other chops off your arm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right.

SCHUMER: So I want to fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:17]

SMERCONISH: Disarray among the Dems, new CNN polling showing the party's favorability hitting a record low of 29 percent. That's a 20 point drop from when Trump left office in 2021. And inside the party, frustration boiling over, much of it aimed at Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, who now faces increasing calls from within his own party to step aside. Schumer's recent decision to support Trump's continuing resolution on the federal budget has only intensified this backlash. More than 41,000 Democrats have signed a petition demanding Schumer's removal, accusing him of failing to stand up against the Trump agenda and calling his leadership impotent in the face of Republican dominance.

The senator disagreed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHUMER: The anger says just stand up to him, which we are doing in many different ways. But you got to be smart when you stand up and you got to pick the fight, you got to do it in a smart way and not let him drive you into a trap and let your anger at him --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. SCHUMER: -- end up hurting you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: That didn't stop prominent Democrats from breaking ranks. Maryland Congressman Glenn Ivey said, if Schumer doesn't change strategy soon, I'm for moving on. Illinois Congresswoman Delia Ramirez publicly agreed Schumer ought to step down. Colorado Senator Michael Bennett hinted at upcoming discussions about leadership changes, adding, quote, "It's important for people to know when it's time to go."

Right now, there's no clear favorite to replace Chuck Schumer. Amidst this tumult, former President Joe Biden offering to step back into the political arena, volunteering to help the party with fundraising and campaigning. But reports show that Biden's overture hasn't exactly been embraced by all Democrats, many of whom see him as a symbol of the party's past, not its future. And buttressing that idea, the same CNN poll shows the top choices among Democrats being AOC, Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders, Hakeem Jeffries, none of whom received more than 10 percent support.

AOC and Bernie being on that list, however, may be in line with their finding. They are not known for going with the flow. According to the poll, voters want fight instead of compromise. Fifty-seven percent saying Dems should stop the GOP agenda, with only 42 percent saying they should work with the Republican Party.

This isn't a minor skirmish. It's an open question about the party's future, its identity, its leadership. Joining me now to talk about it is Democratic Senator Chris Coons for the great state of Delaware.

Senator, before I talk about the politics of the day, we haven't seen much of former President Biden. You attended St. Patty's Day mass this week with him. How is he?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): He's doing fine. He gave a great speech here at the St. Patrick's Day Breakfast. He was engaging. He worked the room. He enjoyed being out with folks who he's known and served with for decades.

So, it was a positive morning.

Look, Michael, what we are looking for is clear and strong leadership that unites Democrats. This week here in Delaware, I did a town hall with the other two members of our delegation. Senator Blunt Rochester, Congresswoman McBride. We did an event at Wilmington Hospital to focus on Medicaid and what every Republican supports and every Democrat opposes, which is the bill they are moving through Congress to cut hundreds of billions of dollars out of Medicaid in order to pay for a big tax cut for Elon Musk and his fellow billionaires. This is a big issue for us because it shows your values as a party.

Forty percent of the children in Delaware, a quarter of all the people in Delaware rely on Medicaid for their health care, whether it's seniors aging with dignity in a retirement home or a skilled nursing center, it's people in treatment for mental health or substance abuse, folks who are medically complex. One of the patients who was with us on Monday, Caroline (ph), has a very rare and complex medical disorder, she wouldn't be alive without Medicaid or its birth. In Delaware, we've helped reduce maternal and child mortality with expanding Medicaid. This is a fight that unites Democrats in standing up against President Trump, Elon Musk, and the Republicans in Congress.

SMERCONISH: OK. Is it enough politically, though, Senator? You're a smart guy, and you just made what sounds like a very cogent argument. I don't think that's going to salve the angst among your base.

COONS: Look, we've got folks who are angry because we lost the election and Donald Trump promptly started doing what we told the American people he was going to do, which is implement his agenda for destroying the federal government, harming average Americans, weakening our place in the world, and putting all of us at risk. The folks I hear from, they understand we're in the minority, but they want to know that we've got an agenda and a direction, and we are fighting. That's why this week I have focused here in Delaware on the fight to prevent Medicaid cuts, on meeting with folks who work for the VA to reduce the threat or the impact of cuts that impact our veterans, and by going to schools to highlight the way in which eliminating the Department of Education hurts all Americans.

[09:25:27]

I went to Dell State, which is our historically black college, where they train teachers for all levels of education and where they're alarmed about what the impact will be of cutting the Department of Education. Michael, you know well that one of the things Trump has done well is to, you know, do 50 things a day, shock and awe, keep us distracted. We need a few clear, simple targets that Democrats all agree on that brings us together, and that helps folks see what we're fighting for. Those are the three I think we should be focusing on, cuts to Medicaid, cuts to our veterans, cuts to education.

SMERCONISH: At a town hall meeting in Forestville, Maryland, presumably a Democrat gets on his feet and voices sentiment that I want you to listen to and then tell me how you'd respond to this constituent if he were one of yours. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was clear, it's not that you're in the minority, it's that you aren't even working together on a shared strategy. And that is failure. So to be clear, Congressman, we are -- the message you should clearly take to your colleagues from your constituents is this, we are not interested in hearing that you are in the minority. We know that. We want you to show some of the backbone and strategic brilliance that Mitch McConnell would have in the minority.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want you to show fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: Senator Coons, your response is what?

COONS: I agree. That's why I'm here at home in Delaware taking the fight to Republicans in Congress who intend to cut Medicaid, who are firing veterans from the federal workforce and reducing services to veterans, and who are reducing support from for education.

Let me take a moment and take us back to two times when Republicans made mistakes and lost, even though they were in the majority. When George W. Bush won reelection in 2004, it was a big defeat for Democrats. We, in fact, talked about the end of the Democratic Party. There was a lot of hand wringing and a lot of anxiety about how John Kerry lost as badly as he did. And then George W. Bush used his political capital to try and privatize Social Security.

We organized, we mobilized, and we stopped him. That is exactly the mistake that Donald Trump and Elon Musk and DOGE are making now. They are coming after Medicaid and Social Security. And if we focus on that key strategic mistake, we can organize and mobilize.

If you think back to the first Trump administration, when did he get the most blowback from middle Americans and Republicans? It's when he started separating parents from their children at the border to use cruelty to children as a tool of immigration policy. Even Republicans --

SMERCONISH: I think --

COONS: -- recoiled at the cruelty of that. And I think he will make the same mistake this time and I think that will allow us to organize against an agenda that is cruel.

SMERCONISH: I was simply going to add -- first of all, thank you for being here. We appreciate it, Senator Coons, when you are with us.

I was simply going to add that I see no decline in his numbers among his base. I get the points that you're making, but I don't see any evidence that he's paid a political price, at least thus far. Thank you for coming back. I appreciate it very much.

COONS: Thank you. Michael.

SMERCONISH: Social media reaction from the world of X. What do we have? The only future can be a return to the center. Oh, I like that. You know I love that.

The extreme left created purpose for the extreme right and look where we are now. I have to agree with the comment when I see, you know, Bernie and AOC drawing crowds and being very effective in that scenario. I think that that face of the party is just too far to the left to attract the centrists that that X user is speaking to.

While the Trump administration has shot down speculation about Elon Musk getting briefed on a secret China war plan during that Pentagon briefing yesterday, it does raise an interesting question, at least I think so at smerconish.com, it's the poll question of the day, considering Elon Musk's experience in technology and defense, should he have any role, should he have a role in advising the Pentagon on national defense strategies?

Still to come, your social media reaction to the commentary. Plus, did you know that the average 14-year-old boy today has seen more hardcore porn than all of the American fighting forces in the Second World War? Think about that. So what happens to young men when they prefer to watch porn instead of forming a real-life connection?

Kindly sign up for my free and worthy daily newsletter at Smerconish.com. When you're voting on the poll question, check out what Steve Breen drew for us. Actually, that's Rob Rogers. Maybe we reversed them, or maybe I missed one. Do we have Breen coming up? Here's the second one. That's Steve Breen. Check it out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:35:04]

SMERCONISH: When it comes to Elon Musk getting Pentagon briefings on secret war plans with China, here's what President Trump had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't want to have a potential war with China, but I can tell you, if we did, we're very well equipped to handle it. But I don't want to show that to anybody. But certainly, you wouldn't show it to a businessman who is helping us so much. You know, Elon has businesses in China and he would be susceptible, perhaps, to that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: Valid point to mull over when you're voting on today's poll question at Smerconish.com. Considering Elon Musk's experience in technology and defense, should he have -- that should be space. Should he have a role in advising the Pentagon on national defense strategies?

Social media reaction. We've got tons of it today. Let's see some. From the world of X.

Is it April 1st? Is this a joke question? Why are you doing this, Michael? Musk is already an enigma, a man generating doubt, mystery, and you ask if he should advise the Pentagon? Looking for World War 3, Michael?

Garth Rose, here's my answer. Did you watch the return to Earth of the Dragon capsule? Did you see Suni and Butch as they landed in the gulf of whatever it is? Were you not amazed? And would you not want whatever minds were behind that rescue mission to be involved in national defense?

Here's another argument. I'll try another one. Do you believe that there is waste, fraud and abuse at the Pentagon? I certainly do. Therefore, how can you make cuts without knowing a little bit about the Pentagon's business?

Do we give Elon Musk the O plan, the operational plan for war with China? Hell no. Do we do our best to instill guardrails so that the conflicts of interest that are kind of inherent in all of this don't get worse? Yes.

But don't you want whomever the brains are behind Starlink and SpaceX and, yes, Tesla to be inside the tent? If you know the expression instead of outside the tent, I do. I think that the Musk derangement, oh, this will get me in further hot water. But I'm going to say it.

I think that the Musk derangement syndrome is such that people are now irrational in looking at the value that someone of his intellect who knows rockets and knows space can provide. We've got more to say, but not enough time to say it.

Still to come, is porn becoming too much of a distraction for young men? What happens when they prefer watching it online versus having real experiences and relationships? Social psychologist Jonathan Haidt is warning that technology is blocking Gen Z from engaging in a normal and healthy sex life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN HAIDT, PROFESSOR OF ETHICAL LEADERSHIP, NYU STERN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS: Why are they not drinking? Why are they not driving cars? Why are they not dating?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why aren't they getting pregnant?

HAIDT: Why are they not getting pregnant? Why do you think it is? Because they're so wise? They decided, you know what? These are risky.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because they're not with other people.

HAIDT: They're not doing anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're not being social.

HAIDT: If you're just on your bed all day long, scrolling through social media, then you're not going to be doing any of those things.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:21]

SMERCONISH: For an increasing number of adolescents today, their first sexual experience is watching porn and not the level or type of porn their parents might have experienced in the magazines that have since gone out of business. Today, it's omnipresent and increasingly sophisticated.

Recently, Elon Musk told Joe Rogan that A.I. powered sex robots are probably just five years away. This exposure, no pun intended, is changing the nature of relationships in a world where already more young men are single than young women. A recent piece in "The Atlantic," written by Caitlin Flanagan with the headline "Sex Without Women" caught my eye and argues, "The heterosexual man can now have what many see as a rich sex life without ever needing to deal with an actual woman. Watching online porn has become most adolescents' first sexual experience. The average 14-year- old boy today has seen more hardcore porn than all of the American fighting forces in the Second World War."

It reminded me of a headline from "The Hill" not too long ago. Nearly half of young adults are single, 34 percent of women, and a whopping 63 percent of men. That report said that, "Men in their 20s are more likely than women to be romantically uninvolved, sexually dormant, friendless and lonely."

My next guest, Christine Emba, and NYU Stern Business School professor Scott Galloway, addressed this subject with me in 2023 about why young men are facing an identity crisis. Here's Scott.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT GALLOWAY, PROFESSOR OF MARKETING, NYU'S STERN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS: You can look at the most unstable violent societies in the world and they all have one thing in common. They all have a disproportionate amount of young men who have not -- no economic opportunity, and also have no opportunity for relationships.

We need to have an honest conversation. Sex and companionship are huge motivators and guardrails for young men. They put on a shirt, they blow dry their hair, they get their act together, they get a job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: Joining me now is Christine Emba, contributing writer for "The New York Times" and senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute with a focus on gender, sexuality, feminism, masculinity, youth culture and social norms. She's also the author of a great book. It's called "Rethinking Sex: A Provocation."

Christine, we're talking about the guys, but the ramifications for the young women are really significant. If men are watching porn in this degree, what does it mean for the young women?

CHRISTINE EMBA, SENIOR FELLOW, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Well, first of all thanks for -- thanks for having me. Although, this is not the most cheerful conversation we'd be having on a Saturday morning.

But, yes, you're completely right. It may be that young men are the biggest consumers of pornography. But, you know, the young women they are supposed to be dating or would hopefully be dating are unfortunately also affected.

[09:45:03]

So, first you think about the fact that the first age of exposure for most young people today to pornography is in the tweens or earlier between like 10 and 13. And yes, it usually appears to young men first. Maybe they're seeking it out. Maybe they're on, you know, just an app like Instagram or Twitter and something pops up.

But that colors how they see the young women around them. And then the young women respond. So, you see young women who are trying to date or form relationships with -- relationships with young men who have been conditioned by pornography, and they feel like they need to act in certain ways to live up to the expectations that these guys have formed by watching videos that have no relationship to reality.

That means that they feel expected to be prematurely sexual. They feel pressured to take part in or enact sexual practices that they might not like, probably have no interest in, but know that the young men they're around expect because of their pornography watching.

And one of the things that we're actually seeing a lot in dating culture, and what -- one thing that young women tell me a lot these days is that they feel a lot of fear. They know that young men have been consuming pornography. This content that's often very violent, often degrading to women, and they understand that the young men they're with frequently want to act this out in their relationships. And that is scary to them.

Why would you go on a date with a young man if you understand that you might be surprised, choked at the end of it? So, they want to opt out. They begin to see young men as less their peers and more something, at least in the romantic realm, to be dealt with, managed or avoided.

SMERCONISH: Another manifestation of a lack of in-person communication, too much time online. Consequently, the social skills that we acquire from older brothers and sisters, and being in the company of others, it's missing. And that's what most needs to be addressed. How do we do that?

EMBA: Yes, absolutely. I mean, I think one thing that we have to remember is that young people are young, you know, 10-year-olds or a 13-year-old or even a 16-year-old is not an adult. And I think -- actually, we know. Research shows that they have a harder time discerning between what is true and what is being acted.

You know, an adult can say, oh, I'm watching this porn video. Like, OK, obviously this isn't how we behave in real life. This is just a video.

But a 14-year-old who has not had sex yet, who has not been on a date before, this is the only thing that they've seen, you know, finds it very easy to imagine and believe that this is just how things go.

The only way to correct that is by, frankly, in-person interactions. Instead of watching videos, you have to go outside and talk to girls or even just talk to your peers. Get an understanding for what conversation looks like so that you can figure out what is and what isn't acceptable.

And I think this, you know, will rely a lot on parents and schools, frankly, to boot young people off of their smartphones and their computers. Take them away in the classroom and sometimes at home, and encourage that sort of touching grass experience. You know, being forced to actually interact with a cashier, with a neighbor, with a teacher, with a classmate in, you know, a real-world space.

SMERCONISH: I'm going to use my preferred term. We need to mingle people of all ages. Christine, thank you so much. Your book is terrific. I appreciate you being back on the program.

EMBA: Of course. Thanks for having me.

SMERCONISH: Quick social media reaction. From the world of X. What do we have? Hey, by the way, watch my "Mingle Movie." It's directly on this and related subjects. It's available on my YouTube page. Thousands of people have already. Republicans, Democrats -- don't matter. Everybody gets the message. More time in person with one another.

David -- porn is a symptom of something bigger. It's laziness among young men and their inability or unwillingness to do things to attract actual women to themselves. That's a pretty condemning look at young men. I wish I had more time to address it the way that I have with Christine in the past and with Scott.

Whatever the root cause might be let's agree that they are a demographic that are struggling and need our attention. On that we should all agree.

The White House has flatly denied speculation over Elon Musk getting Pentagon briefings with a secret war plan for China. But what about his role? Is it necessarily negative for him to be solicited for advice?

That's what I'm really trying to get at in the poll question. I expect the result will be awfully lopsided. That doesn't mean it's a bad question.

Considering Elon Musk's experience in technology and space, should he have a role in advising the Pentagon on national defense strategies?

[09:50:05]

While your there voting, subscribe to the daily newsletter. It's free and it's worthy. And you will get exclusive editorial cartoons from the like of Jack Ohman, and one more from Scott Stantis. Love that. Check it out.

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SMERCONISH: So, there's the results so far. Show it to me. Holy smokes, 42,000 -- well, I figured. I figured the no votes would win by a large margin. I didn't think it would be 85/15. Considering Elon Musk's experience in technology in space, should he have a role in advising the Pentagon on national defense strategies? And 85 percent are saying, nah, the guy who -- the guy who landed the Dragon capsule, the person who has Starlink, the person who has such expertise, even if you disagree with his politics when it comes to space and rockets, no, let's not consult him on national defense.

[09:55:11]

By the way, do you think that the Chinese are allowing their brightest business minds to offer advice relative to their defense? My hunch is -- the answer is yes. Very quickly, another social media reaction.

The American people speak with their wallet. Nothing new. As for Tesla, remember the Boston Tea Party?

Now, that's a -- that's just a justification of violence. If you don't want to -- if you don't want to buy his car, then don't buy his car. Don't buy his car if you don't want to buy it -- but don't go torching Tesla's -- don't go torching charging stations. Don't go torching dealerships.

I mean, that's just -- it's anti-American and it's wrong. Vote at the ballot box, you know, not with a -- not with a Molotov cocktail.

I want to let you know, my latest project, "The Mingle Movie." I just made reference to it a moment ago. It's all about our societal disconnect, polarization, the impact of technology on our youth. It's available for free on my YouTube channel. I just want it watched and shared.

And remember, if you missed any of today's program, you can always listen anywhere you get your podcasts. Thank you for watching. See you next week.

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