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Israel, Iran Trade Attacks After Israel Targets Nuclear Sites; Israel Defense Minister: "Tehran Will Burn" If Attacks Continue; Rep. Byron Donalds, (R-FL), Is Interviewed About ICE Raids, Immigrants; ICE Raids Spark Fury At Home Depot Locations Nationwide. Shelter In Place Order Issued Amid "Targeted Shootings" Outside Minneapolis; Nearly 300 Killed In Air India Plane Crash, One Survivor. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired June 14, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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Thank you for joining me today. I'll see you back here for a special hour of CNN Newsroom at 10:00 a.m. Smerconish picks up the coverage right now.

[09:00:34]

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: Tehran will burn. I'm Michael Smerconish. Today in New York City, that warning from the Israeli defense minister, it comes after Israel and Iran traded missile attacks overnight. The two nations long at odds now locked in one of the most dangerous military exchanges in decades.

In Tel Aviv, residential buildings destroyed, three killed, dozens injured. In Tehran, Iran says over 100 dead, mostly civilians. Israel claims that it's taken out top Iranian military commanders and nuclear scientists, including the head of the IRGC. Israeli strikes leveled part of the Natanz nuclear facility, a key pillar of Iran's enrichment program confirmed by the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog. Now Iran is vowing, quote, "severe punishment," even as questions loom over whether talks with the U.S. will move forward this weekend. President Trump, for his part, says Iran should cut a deal before there's nothing left.

Joining me now, Admiral James Stavridis, CNN Senior Military Analyst, a former NATO supreme allied commander, and David Sanger, CNN Political and National Security Analyst, he's also the White House and National Security Correspondent for the "New York Times."

Admiral, first to you. There have been previous volleys of missiles between Israel and Iran last October, a year ago April, always Israel, very successful in defending herself. Is that because Iran is so ineffective or is it that Iran in the past hasn't wanted to escalate and does this time appear different? ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: It's a bit of both. So Iran clearly has been knocked back by the recent strikes. I'm sure the Israelis put a lot of special attention, shall we say, on ballistic missile launching sites, on the ability of the Iranians to reconstitute those ballistic missiles, because that's really the principal threat. So, Iran's been knocked back. And then secondly, it's pretty clear at this point that Iran does not want to drag the United States into this war. So they're trying to thread a bit of a needle here.

And I'll close with this, Michael, a third element that you didn't mention is just how capable the Israeli air defenses are. Yes, it looks like one did get through tragically. But we're now running 200, 300 shoot downs of ballistic missiles over the strikes from Iran. And oh, by the way, my beloved Navy was on site and apparently shot down one of them from one of our Arleigh Burke class destroyers, similar to the one I used to command. So it's a combination of those three things at this point.

SMERCONISH: David Sanger, was President Trump involved in a ruse? Was he saying one thing publicly but doing another privately?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Michael, he certainly knew more than he was letting on at the time. Although it was becoming clear to all of us during the middle of the week that the Israelis were getting ready to strike. The surprise here was that they struck before the weekend and thus seemed to have completely undermined the diplomatic effort that President Trump had underway. And Thursday afternoon before the strikes, you may remember that the president said, well, if they do strike, it could well blow up the negotiations, might help them, he said, but would probably blow them up. But I think it's worth sort of backing off in addition to what we heard from Admiral Stavridis about what happened in the missile exchange to focus on what this was all about, which was, of course, the nuclear program.

And we reported in the "Times" last night that in fact, so far the Iranians have not made a huge dent in what is a sprawling nuclear complex. Certainly they've hit the Natanz site, as you mentioned, that's the largest of the enrichment sites. But it doesn't appear that they used ammunition that would go down deep into the centrifuge halls, which is where most of the work is done. I'm sure they wouldn't be able to reconstitute Natanz for a year or two. But the fear here is, of course, that you drive the nuclear program underground and they haven't touched the fuel that is closest to bomb grade stored in a place called Isfahan, a former ancient capital of Iran. That is, of course, the closest pathway the Iranians have to the war -- to a bomb.

[09:05:03]

SMERCONISH: Admiral Stavridis, the Israelis claim that they've decimated the senior leadership in Iran's military structure. From a military perspective, how quickly and effectively can those ranks be refilled?

STAVRIDIS: They can be quickly refilled. That's what any military security structure is primed to do. There's a deputy, there's a chief operations officer, you can lead them up pretty quickly. But you can't replace that level of experience and you can't instantly replace access to those leaders to the highly classified information that Iran holds.

Think of it this way, this was a day in which Marco Rubio in his hat as national security adviser would have been killed alongside the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Caine. That's a big blow to any organization. And then secondly, beyond simply fleeting somebody up, it's a morale issue. Now, all the other leaders are laying in their bunks at night wondering when the next thing that's going to drop is.

One final comment to David's excellent summary of how hard this was hit, what the Israelis lack is the massive ordinance penetrator GBU 57, we fly it on a B2 Spirit bomber. It's also known colloquially as the bunker busting bomb BBB, not to be confused with the Big Beautiful Bill, that is the weapon to watch if the United States gets into this. Watch for those B2s to get involved. Without those, Israel is going to have a hard time really knocking this program out.

SMERCONISH: Quick final question for David Sanger, does history tell us whether Iranians the civilians will rally around their flag? How do they feel about this?

SANGER: Well, they are certainly rallying right now because they're looking at attacks on their cities and of course some civilian casualties along the way. President Trump and certainly Prime Minister Netanyahu are of the view that this could well spark a turn against the Iranian theocratic government. History does not suggest that this happens all that often. Usually there's more anger at the attacker than there are -- there is even a repressive internal government. But that's the big bet that is underway now by both Prime Minister Netanyahu.

And on the sidelines to some degree, the United States.

SMERCONISH: Thank you, gentlemen. Yes, I asked that question because of the Netanyahu speech that was directly toward the civilians of Iran. We appreciate both of you.

To everybody at home, what are your thoughts? Hit me up on social media and I'll read some responses throughout the course of the program.

This comes from the world of YouTube. I'm probably in the minority, but I think anything to prevent Iran from having a nuclear weapon will make the world a safer place in the long run, even if it feels less safe now.

Joseph, responding to today's poll question@smerconish.com Obviously, he's already voted. Here it is. Did Israel's strike against Iran make the world a more or less safe place? Go to smerconish.com, cast your ballot, I'll give you results at the end of the hour.

Up ahead, how President Trump's immigration fight moved from the southern border to your local home improvement store. Plus, we'll hear from the man who was the only survivor of that deadly Air India plane crash. Please make sure that as you're voting on the poll question, you're signing up for my daily newsletter at smerconish.com for which Scott Stantis just drew this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:12:58]

SMERCONISH: How doers get more done. How doers get more done. That's the slogan from Home Depot, the big box store that caters to weekend warriors and now finds itself ground zero in America's immigration battle.

Confrontation came last Saturday near a Home Depot in Paramount, California, that's a working class, predominantly Latino suburb south of downtown Los Angeles. The resulting skirmish was apparently a trigger for President Trump's deployment of 2,000 National Guard troops, where federal law enforcement maintain an office nearby. It's possible that the Home Depot wasn't the intended target, but word quickly spread on social media that a raid was underway either there or at a neighboring meatpacking facility. Separately, the Los Angeles Times reported that a Home Depot in the city's Westlake neighborhood was also among several locations federally targeted by federal officials. Quote, "The arrests outside Home Depot targeted day laborers hired by the chain's customers, including homeowners and contractors who rely on undocumented workers for home repair and construction jobs," reported the LA Times.

And it's not just Los Angeles, across the nation, Home Depots have become informal gathering places for migrants hoping to get work as day laborers. I have fielded telephone calls from radio listeners on Sirius XM who've described employing workers for landscaping, carpentry, light construction, among other tasks. Jorge Nicholas (ph) is a senior organizer at a day labor center run by the Central American Resource Center. He told the Times that these workers often do the dirty jobs critical to construction, and this is of particular importance in Southern California, where rebuilding continues after last year's catastrophic wildfires.

This past week may have marked a new phase in President Trump's border enforcement. Until now, the rhetoric and the ICE activities have focused on violent migrants, murderers, rapists, gang members. But the latest crackdowns are sweeping up a very different kind of migrant, those who may have arrived illegally or overstayed a visa, but have since settled into American life as normal, working, raising, family, breaking no law people. As California governor Gavin Newsom earlier this week noted, this.

[09:15:12]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM, (D) CALIFORNIA: Trump is pulling a military dragnet all across Los Angeles. His agents are arresting dishwashers, gardeners, day laborers and seamstresses. They're traumatizing our communities. And that seems to be the entire point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: Whatever the goal, there's no question the administration has escalated the fight. Indeed, the Department of Homeland Security has recently unveiled a poster online that looks like a World War II propaganda poster, "Help your country and yourself report all foreign invaders," it reads. Furthermore, border czar Tom Homan has promised worksite enforcement operations are going to massively expand, and they'll be going not just after unauthorized employees, but the companies that hire them.

But we're also getting mixed signals from the White House. Today, "The New York Times" is reporting that the Trump administration has told ICE to pause raids and arrests for farm, hotel and restaurant workers. On social media on Thursday, President Trump said these workers would be impossible to replace. I agree with him, but I think that could be said about many more categories of our labor force.

All of which leads me to ask, as I often do of my radio listeners, when we're finished finding the murderers and the rapists and the assaulters, what are we going to do about the short order cook from Jersey City? And by that I mean the majority who came here illegally or perhaps overstayed their visa, but have otherwise been productive members of society. And the news is now full of stories of such individuals who suddenly find themselves ensnared.

Consider just a couple of cases. Salal (ph) and Amin Ammanid (ph), a Turkish couple who ran a falafel shop in Haddon Township, New Jersey arrested by ICE after years in immigration limbo. Salal entered legally in 2008, but multiple green card application denials have left him without status. Neighbors call them both the pillars of the community. Supporters have raised over $327,000 for their legal defense.

Or Marcelo Gomes, an 18-year-old honor student and high school volleyball player in Massachusetts arrested on his way to practice. He came from Brazil at age five, has no criminal record. His arrest shocked the community. He was absent for graduation the following day where he was scheduled to play drums in the school band.

Jesus Cruz, he'd been in this country more than 30 years, had a regular job at a Los Angeles car wash when the agents swept in, some employees ran, some hid behind cars. His wife, Naomi (ph), was out with her daughter when she saw a social media post about a potential raid, it was too late for her to reach Jesus. He was caught. As she noted, he had no criminal background, never had even gotten a ticket. She hasn't been able to reach him since.

Denmark born Kasper Eriksen, a Mississippi father of four who had never been charged with a crime detained during his citizenship hearing, he missed a paperwork deadline in 2015 while grieving a stillbirth. He's since become a valued employee at a local welding shop where the owner planned to leave Erickson the business upon his retirement. I'm not defending their original sin, and I realize that giving them any grace will be unfair to those who came here lawfully. In fact, legal immigrants have moved to the hawkish side of the immigration debate. As CNN's Harry Enten notes, there's been an astonishing 40 point shift in how foreign born workers feel. In 2020, Democrats had a 32 point lead on immigration policy among this group, but today Republicans lead by 8 percentage points on the issue.

It's understandable, why play by the rules if it doesn't make any difference, especially after four years of a president who some saw as promoting an open border policy. And it makes sense that America should continue to uphold a distinction between immigrants who followed the law and those who didn't. I get it. But that still leaves us with about 10 million or so who are just like the examples that I gave earlier, good neighbors, productive people, and it's impractical to think we can remove them all. Instead, we need to give them a chance to get right with the law.

That prospect has been missing from the current debate. In fact, we haven't had a serious conversation about a pathway to citizenship for about a decade. It was popular then, and it still seems so now. In 2015, Pew Research reported there was broad support to grant legal status to those here illegally. Their polling showed Americans decidedly favored mercy over justice.

Most Americans, 72 percent, continue to say undocumented immigrants currently living in the U.S. should be allowed to stay in the country legally if certain requirements are met. And that feeling remains. A 2024 Pew poll found a similar majority supporting legal status under certain conditions for undocumented immigrants.

So why do we have to go back to Senate Bill 744 in 2013 to find a comprehensive approach to make this a reality? Do you remember the Gang of Eight, Republicans John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio, Jeff Flake, partnering with Democrats Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin, Bob Menendez, and Michael Bennet, strange bedfellows to be sure. That bill introduced a status called Registered Provisional Immigrant, offering a path to a green card for noncitizens who had remained in the U.S. continuously since 2012, did not have a felony conviction or three or more misdemeanors, and they paid a $500 fine, that path would have taken about 13 years.

[09:20:38]

The Gang of Eight's work was hailed as a model of bipartisan lawmaking. All eight of the bill's primary sponsors had to, at some point during the process, vote against amendments that they personally supported so that they could maintain this fragile consensus. The bill passed in the Senate 68-32 but never even reached the House floor under Speaker John Boehner. This was largely due to concerns of the Tea Party wing of the Republican Party. As the folks at Brookings noted back in 2014, "It's because House Republicans aren't motivated by true conservatism. Rather, they represent constituencies haunted by anxiety associated with the perception that they're losing their country to immigrants from south of the border." More recently, the bipartisan border bill that Trump helped shoot down at the end of President Biden's term had some similar provisions. The bill would have created lawful prospective immigrant status for noncitizens who met similar requirements to that which was set out in 2013.

Now, say what you will about his approach, there's no question President Trump has brought illegal border crossings to a level that many thought impossible. According to the U.S. Border Patrol, such crossings have slowed to a trickle. In February of this year, February of 2025, the USBP apprehended 8,347 illegal aliens crossing the southwest border. This constitutes a 94% decrease from February of 2024. But all that means is that this is a perfect opportunity, a chance to build on the momentum, seize this moment and craft a long term solution for those who are already here.

And make no mistake, this is going to require hard work from Democrats as much as Republicans because many on the right appropriately question the commitment of the Democrats if they get back in power? What's to stop them from returning to more porous borders? Thus, it's their job as well to reach across the aisle and convince the doubters in both word and deed that Congress and the next Democratic president will keep the border secure. Once this hurdle is cleared. We can come up with a deal for all the nonviolent offenders living as productive, taxpaying members of our communities.

You're thinking tax paying? I thought illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. Not always true. Tax documents require an ITIN, Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, in lieu of a Social Security number, which allows undocumented migrants to voluntarily sign up for taxes. And why would they do that?

Because they've heard that it gives them a better shot at eventual citizenship. But it also could help the authorities' track them down and deport them. However, in tracking them down, there's no clear mechanism to differentiate between someone here recently and a parent whose spouse and children are living here legally and who has been paying taxes and committing no crimes for over a decade. So if you want is a well-established, law abiding citizenship, they work hard, they pay their taxes, then now's the time to give them a one chance opportunity to come out of the shadows, stay and pay or say no and go. We've seen enforcement is possible, it's working.

And now we need a plan for the other half of the equation, compassion, structure and a pragmatic path forward. Let's go. President Trump and Congress, as they say at Home Depot, it's time for doers to get more done.

Let's dive into this with Florida Congressman -- Republican Congressman Byron Donalds. He's a member of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee and a candidate to be Florida's next governor.

Good morning and welcome back. React to my commentary.

REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL), MEMBER OF OVERSIGHT & GOVERNMENT REFORM COMMITTEE: A lot of things to unpack there. Number one, the reason why we're nowhere close to what you're describing is because we just watched Joe Biden let more than 15 million people into the country illegally. They were expanding every border provision we have, every asylum provision we have. And so to be truthful, the American people do not trust future Democratic leaders to actually secure the border. This has gone on for decades now.

1986, Ronald Reagan signed immigration reform bill called for amnesty for 3 million illegal aliens at the time. The other part of that deal was building border wall, putting in more security improvements and the Democrats reneged. Never went back to that deal, never actually helped President Reagan at the time build the border wall like they agreed.

[09:25:00]

President Bush tried this back in -- during his administration. And at that point conservatives have had enough, they said we don't believe you in Washington. We think all you're going to do is make this pathway to citizenship a fast track for people to come into the country. But there will be no border security improvements.

Then look at what happened under President Biden like I just said, they came into power and what did they do? Opened up the country to more than 15 million illegals. Our cities were overrun. Cities who were trying to find ways to get back on their feet now had an onslaught of illegal aliens in the country. So where --

SMERCONISH: OK.

DONALDS: -- we are right now is a lot -- is people have to go home.

SMERCONISH: OK.

DONALDS: We still have cities that are overwhelmed, don't have enough money to make ends.

SMERCONISH: I have a response.

DONALDS: He -- they got to go home.

SMERCONISH: I have -- all right. I have a response to that. First of all, I've acknowledged the poorest borders that existed previous, previous to this administration. I'm giving President Trump full credit for having slowed this to a trickle where many thought that that was not possible. But why not create a program where those who came in the last two years aren't eligible for the path that I'm talking about?

I guess my question to you is what about the short order cook in Jersey City? You know what I'm talking about. The guy who came illegally or he overstayed a visa, but has proven himself over time to be a worthy citizen. What do you want to do with that guy? Do you want to send him home?

DONALDS: Unfortunately, he's probably going to have to go home. SMERCONISH: OK.

DONALDS: And the reason why is because politicians in Washington have not followed the law consistently over time. You're asking the American people to trust Washington on a new deal around immigration when they've never enforced the old deals around immigration.

SMERCONISH: OK. But look, but, Congressman --

DONALDS: And so there is a high level of skepticism. You have to acknowledge that.

SMERCONISH: But -- I do. I absolutely do. I'm trying to meet somewhere in the middle and resolve this. I mean, how about the inconsistency now in this "New York Times" page one story today, at least in the online version that says that President Trump is providing grace for restaurant workers, for hotel workers and for farm laborers. So already now there's going to be more inconsistency. Why not the short order cook if the guy picking grapes is all of a sudden going to get some slack?

DONALDS: I'm going to tell you why. Because the system is completely overrun. If went through and actually had full deportation proceedings, like, basically for the people that just Joe Biden let in, it would take us a decade to go through that backlog, a decade. The 9/11 Commission called for an entry system, a biometric entry system and a biometric exit system after 9/11. We built the biometric entry system, so when people come in on visas, we take all their biometrics, et cetera.

Congress and presidents never follow through on the biometric exit system so that we can track when people leave. So we have a better control of the visas that are actually executed in the United States and we know when people are actually leaving the country. We haven't done that. We already know we haven't secured the border consistently over time. Donald Trump, by the way -- happy birthday, Mr. President, Donald Trump had to secure the border twice, twice now.

First, after Barack Obama and now after President Biden. So we have not been consistent. But I'm going to make this point, we've not been consistent, but you're asking the American people to now say, well, Donald Trump secured the border, so now let's move quickly to a pathway for citizenship. And I'm telling you, that is not where the American people are, they want to see consistent enforcement over time and not two months --

SMERCONISH: OK.

DONALDS: -- before we actually even get into issues around immigration reform and visa reform.

SMERCONISH: My final thought is this, you hold the pen. Your guys in the White House, you control the House and you control the Senate for how much longer, I don't know what comes in the midterm election. I've been disappointed as a citizen while appreciating the border becoming secure, that this is not a part of the conversation. And I think you've explained from your perspective why that's the case.

I wish we had more time. You'll come back and we'll continue the conversation. Thank you, Congressman.

DONALDS: Thank you.

SMERCONISH: Back to our top story, the ongoing attacks between Israel and Iran. By the way, the Washington Post today has an editorial. Can we put it on the screen? Here's what they said, "Anything that sets back Iran's nuclear ambitions should be counted as a victory because that makes the world a safer place. But the attack leaves many questions unanswered and raises longer term concerns as to what might happen next.

Whether the world will truly be safer and whether the United States could end up getting pulled into a war not of its choosing depends on several factors that for now are mostly unknowable."

OK. Well, the Post says it's unknowable, but nevertheless, this is my poll question because I'm tracking the exact same thinking, did Israel's strike against Iran make the world a more or a less safe place? Go to smerconish.com, cast your ballot. More of your social media reaction coming in just a few minutes. Sign up for the free and worthy daily newsletter. When you go and cast your ballot, check out what Steve Breen drew for the newsletter this week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:34:28]

SMERCONISH: You can find me on all the usual social media platforms. Maybe you'll follow me on X like Joanne has done.

Give immigrants already here, not felony convicted, a pathway to citizenship. We should not be selling $5 million green cards to millionaires who've contributed nothing when most immigrants already here have invested their blood, sweat and tears to help us all.

I agree with that. I've always thought -- shame on me. I should have asked that question of Congressman Donalds a moment ago. Why is it OK if a person just writes a check that we let them in?

Look, my solution, not unique to me, was the Gang of Eight a decade ago of providing a pathway to citizenship is admittedly like Churchill said about democracy, the worst possible solution except for all the alternatives, except for all the alternatives.

[09:35:14]

And we're fooling ourselves if we think that 10 million people are going to be removed or self-deport from this country. And frankly, we don't want them to. Because look at the about-face that President Trump has had to do inside of the last week already saying, oh, wait a minute, maybe ICE, you shouldn't be moving against farm workers. Maybe you shouldn't be working -- moving against hotel employees. Maybe you shouldn't be moving against those who are in eateries, which I guess is my short order cook in Jersey City.

They're hard working. They made a mistake. It's not fair. I acknowledge that. It's not fair to give them a path.

We're not going to do it overnight. We're going to have a time period. They're going to have to buy into this and continue to be good citizens, but put them on a path to citizenship.

Guess what? It's in our best interest to do so because President Trump already knows Americans aren't doing those jobs. Americans aren't going to do the jobs. That's why he needs to give slack to those who are in farm fields.

More social media. Sorry I got long-winded.

Deport the worst. Provide a pathway to citizenship for the best. Duh.

OK, I think I just acknowledged that. Let's go to the next one. Next.

Even though I'm a left leaning centrist and not a fan of the Israeli military in general, the neutralization of Iran's nuclear capabilities will make the world safer in the long run.

Michael, I have my skepticism about Prime Minister Netanyahu. I've made that clear here in the past. If they were that close to having a nuclear capability and if diplomacy were failing, then OK, I feel as you feel.

But I just don't get the fact that President Trump on Monday said, don't do it. President Trump said, don't do it just before they did do it. And we had these scheduled talks in Oman for Sunday.

It seems like there was some life in the diplomatic path. If it had reached an end, then, OK, I'm fine with it. I just don't know all the answers, I'd like to.

Still to come, just one man walks away from this week's deadly plane crash in India. Why was he so lucky? I've got some really interesting insight coming your way in a moment.

And don't forget to vote on today's poll question at Smerconish.com. Did Israel strike against Iran make the world a more or a less safe place?

Sign up for the newsletter while you're there. Check out what Jack Ohman drew for us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:41:39]

SMERCONISH: We have breaking news. There's a shelter in place order issued amid, quote, "targeted shootings" outside of Minneapolis, in the suburbs of Champlin and Brooklyn Park. That's according to Minnesota Governor Tim Walz. The shelter in place order is in a three-mile radius of Edinburgh Golf Course in Brooklyn Park. The governor said that he'd been briefed on the situation, and the Minnesota Department of Public Safety and local law enforcement are on the scene. Stay with CNN for the very latest on that.

Investigators searching for clues in what caused one of India's deadliest plane crashes in decades. On Thursday, a London bound Air India flight plunged from the sky just seconds after taking off, killing 241 passengers and crew members on board. The plane crashed into a nearby medical college hostel, killing more people on the ground and raising the death toll to nearly 300.

Dramatic video posted online captured the sole survivor of the plane crash as he limped his way toward an ambulance with a blood-stained shirt. The survivor was later identified as Vishwash Kumar Ramesh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VISHWASH KUMAR RAMESH, SOLE SURVIVOR OF AIR INDIA PLANE CRASH (through translator): Everything happened in front of my eyes. I don't believe or know how I survived. For some time, I thought I was also going to die but when I opened my eyes, I realized I was alive. And I tried to unbuckle myself from the seat and escape from where I could. It was in front of my eyes the air hostess and others died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: Ramesh's story is being hailed as nothing short of a miracle. Indian news outlets reported images of Ramesh's boarding pass showing that he was assigned to seat 11A, an emergency exit row seat near the plane's left wing. CNN has yet to independently verify the photo.

Joining me now is Ben Sherwood. He's the publisher and CEO of "The Daily Beast." He was a former co-chair of Disney Media Networks and president of ABC News. More importantly, for our purposes, he's the author of "The Survivors Club: The Secrets and Science that Could Save Your Life."

Ben, nice to see you. Your book included a discussion of six secrets of surviving a plane crash. How does the man in seat 11A match what you wrote?

BEN SHERWOOD, AUTHOR, "THE SURVIVOR CLUB": Nice to see you, Michael. There's a difference between a survivable plane crash and an unsurvivable plane crash. And the terrible tragedy in India reminds us that there are some crashes, that there is virtually no way of getting out because of the heat, because of the smoke, because of the impact.

In this particular case, it's quite remarkable because out of 242 passengers the man in seat 11A got out. He's next to an emergency exit. Incredible detail is that he is in seat 11A next to one exit. His brother Ajay is in seat 11J seven seats away on the other side of the plane. And in interviews, Mr. Ramesh says that he looked over and he could

see that his brother's exit was blocked. And so, his exit was open. His brother's exit was blocked. One brother lives. One brother dies in this extraordinary situation.

The lesson for people who are in survivable crashes 95 percent of airplane incidents are actually survivable is to seat within five rows of an emergency exit, any emergency exit. That's what the experts say. Five rows is the range that you can get to an exit and get off, and the time that you need, which is around 90 seconds.

[09:45:00]

SMERCONISH: Your book, "The Survivors Club," looked at survivors of more than just airplane crashes, all sorts of catastrophes. What, if any, common denominator did you find in the people who made it?

SHERWOOD: Michael, the common denominator is situational awareness. People understand the situation that they're in, and they understand the threats that they face. And then they have a plan A and a plan B to deal with it.

So, in an airplane, when you get on an airplane, a lot of people like to go to the bar at the gate before the flight. They like to get on the plane. They put on a mask. They take a sleeping pill. They take off their shoes.

The experts say that that means that you will have very little situational awareness if you have to actually evacuate fast from the plane in 90 seconds. If you've got a mask on, your shoes are off, and you're -- you've had a couple of pops and you maybe have taken an Ambien, you're not going to be able to respond as fast as you need to in an emergency. And many of these plane crashes are indeed survivable. You got to get off fast. And there are many instances where people have to get to the exit and get down those chutes.

And so, you want to be alert in the first three minutes of a flight. This is the rule, plus three minus eight. First three minutes of a flight is when most incidents might happen, and then the last eight minutes of a flight are when incidents happen. So, that's when you really need to be alert.

Although overwhelmingly, as you know, Michael, the chances of perishing on your next flight are around one in 80,000,000 in the United States. One in 80,000,000, that means you could fly every day for the next 220,000 years, and nothing would happen to you. So, extremely safe.

But if you want to increase your chances of surviving some kind of incident, you need to have a plan to get off.

SMERCONISH: I've had the privilege of interviewing any number of Medal of Honor recipients, and almost to a person I've thought when interviewing them, geez, I'd have never known it just by sizing them up. How about with regard to the survivors that you write about in your book, would you know by looking at the individual that they've got whatever that quality is to endure?

SHERWOOD: I was amazed around the world. I talked to people who were left for dead on Mount Everest. I talked to people who survived plane crashes and we're attacked by mountain lions. Incredible people who survived four different primary cancers.

And the thing that I learned is that you cannot tell that everyone has strength that they don't even realize they've got. And some of the most extraordinary survivors are the least likely.

They're not big muscle-bound guys who can fight their way through the bushes or jungle. Oftentimes they're quiet, soft spoken, understated, but they have what it takes. They figure out the situation they're in. They develop a plan. They have incredible resilience.

And as you and I have discussed before, Michael, many of them have incredible faith. They have unbelievable faith in God. They have faith in their family. They have faith in their friends. They have faith in themselves that they will find a way to get through whatever they're dealing with.

SMERCONISH: OK. Are you saying -- I have to ask this on television as I have on radio, are you saying that divine intervention plays a role? Or are you saying that because they believe in a higher calling, it gives them some extra quality that they need to get through it?

SHERWOOD: Some people believe in miracles. Some people believe that God had a plan for the one passenger out of 242 in seat 11A and not his brother in seat 11J.

Other people believe in the power of intercessory prayer, as it's called. If I pray for someone, they're going to get better.

The science says that intercessory prayer actually has a positive effect, because if people know that others are praying for them, it gives them certain benefits. And the absence of faith, the absence of belief, religious turmoil is what its known as, that people who have an absence of those convictions and those beliefs, they may have lesser outcomes.

So, the scientists aren't talking about whether God is intervening. They're talking about the psychological and mental effects of feeling strength and belief and faith in a particular outcome.

SMERCONISH: Makes sense. Ben Sherwood, the book is called "The Survivors Club," thank you for being here. I appreciate it.

SHERWOOD: Nice to see you, Michael.

SMERCONISH: You all have time to vote on today's poll question at Smerconish.com. Did Israel strike against Iran? Can't wait to see the result of this. I have no idea which way this one is going to go. Make the world a more or less safe place. Subscribe to the newsletter when you're there. You're going to get exclusive editorial cartoons from the likes of Rob Rogers.

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[09:53:34]

SMERCONISH: We're expecting to hear from the Minnesota governor very soon as this shelter in place order continues amid, quote, "targeted shootings" outside Minneapolis in the suburbs of Champlin and Brooklyn Park. The shelter in place order is within a three-mile radius of Edinburgh Golf Course in Brooklyn Park. Stay with CNN for the very latest.

OK. Results now from today's poll question, at least so far. A lot of voting, 39,396. Did Israel's strike against Iran make the world a more or a less safe place?

Essentially, 60/40. Fifty-nine percent saying, less safe. I agree with "The Washington Post." Only time will tell. We hope that it made the world a safer place.

Social media reaction to today's program included the following.

The time has come to defang the snake. If Israel doesn't do it, we would have to. Because as soon as they're able to bite, they will. That's what they do, says Wilhelm.

I get it, Wilhelm. I made the point earlier in the program if they were that close to having enriched uranium capable of a nuclear weapon, and if diplomacy were at its end, then I agree with the approach that Israel has taken.

I'm just getting conflicting signals because talks were already scheduled to continue in Oman tomorrow. President Trump on Monday said he opposed it. Trump, on the day that it took place, said that he opposed it.

So, you know, which is it? Was diplomacy at an end or was there still life? And perhaps there will still be a negotiation? Wouldn't that be a good thing? Another social media reaction.

[09:55:01]

From the world of X. Amazing coincidence. It started today after the Knesset almost dissolved parliament. Now Netanyahu has his power protected by another war. One that he started, says Alderton.

I don't know how to respond to that other than to say that these are serious consequences. And one would hope that the political survival of the Israeli prime minister didn't play a role in the decision that he made to strike Iran. One more. I can do it. Let's go.

Americans' view of immigration in general changed as entitlements changed. The idea that immigrants wanted to come here to work, changed to immigrants want to come here to work the system.

David, I don't think that's the case. I mean, we're all painting with broad brushes here. I've made my case. I laid down that marker earlier today.

It's impractical to think we're going to remove 10 million people. We need them, as evidenced by the president now showing slack for hotel workers and eateries and those who are in the farm fields. And it's fair because they're mostly decent, decent people. Those who haven't broken the law since the original sin are the ones that I'm talking about.

Thank you for watching. If you missed any of today's program, you can always listen anywhere you get your podcasts. We hope to see you next week.

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