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CNN Saturday Morning News

Nuclear Power Regains National Attention

Aired May 19, 2001 - 08:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: This past week the president unveiled his plans for addressing the nation's energy needs and what that has done, in part at least, has brought the issue of nuclear power back into the spotlight. There was a time when many people thought of nuclear power as the answer to many problems for energy in the United States and then, of course, about 20 years ago came Three Mile Island, changing just about everything.

With us from Washington to share their views on where nuclear power stands right now, Marvin Fertel of the Nuclear Energy Institute and Anna Aurilio of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group. And we welcome you both to the program.

MARVIN FERTEL, NUCLEAR ENERGY INSTITUTE: You're welcome.

ANNA AURILIO, U.S. PIRG: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Let me just begin, and we'll go ladies first. Let me begin, if we could just try to at least get a sense from you as to whether there is, in fact, an energy crisis right now. Ms. Aurilio, how would you describe it? Would you call it, would you use the "C" word?

AURILIO: Well, Miles, to the extent that there is a crisis it's a crisis of large corporations holding consumers hostage because what some electricity generators and definitely the oil companies are doing is they're manipulating markets, in some cases holding back supply to drive up prices. So they're laughing all the way to the bank and we're getting cleaned out.

O'BRIEN: All right, Mr. Fertel, is there a real crisis or is it something that is manufactured, as Ms. Aurilio would suggest?

FERTEL: Well, I think that there is a real crisis when you look at the fact that we haven't really invested in the infrastructure very much, whether it's gas pipelines, transmission lines or, until very recently, new power plants in this country. We haven't built a refinery in the country in 25 years. So, yes, there is a real crisis that we need to deal with and I think the president's plan attempts to do that with a long-term look.

O'BRIEN: Ms. Aurilio, whether there is a crisis or not, eventually we will run out of fossil fuels and there are many who would suggest that nuclear power is a good long-term solution, and along with that would tell you that nuclear power is a lot safer than perhaps we in the media have portrayed it. How do you respond to that?

AURILIO: Well, nuclear power is unsafe and it's too expensive. And finally, it generates very, very dangerous radioactive waste that nobody has found a good solution to. So it's unacceptable and the good news is we don't need nuclear power. We can do things smarter and cleaner. Energy efficiency can help us save energy and save money and reduce pollution and clean renewable energy has enormous potential in this country.

If wind and solar energy had gotten the kind of federal handouts and support that nuclear power had, we'd all be in a lot better shape today and we wouldn't have to be wondering what are we going to do with this dangerous radioactive waste.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Fertel, I've heard it said before, it's an awfully intricate, complicated way to boil water. How do you respond to the issues of expense and safety which come up, of course, time and again whenever nuclear power is in the subject matter?

FERTEL: Well, I think maybe the quickest way to respond is to look at what's really happening as opposed to the potential for things. Right now we have 103 nuclear plants operating in our country. They're our second largest source of electricity. They're doing that safely, reliably and they're doing it at the lowest cost to the consumer for any plants that operate 365 days a year, 24 hours a day.

Also, they're doing it -- and this is very important -- with no emissions of carbon dioxide, greenhouse gases or other air pollutants. So I think that, I agree with Anna that we need to look at efficiency, we need to look at all supply options. But I don't think that you can do what we need to do in an energy situation without the current nuclear plants and more nuclear plants.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Fertel, let's talk about that issue, though, of the nuclear waste, which is an issue to contend with and to reckon with, because the waste generated by these plants is apt to be hot for, well, it's in the five figures, the numbers of years we're talking about here, and there still is not a federally blessed disposal site for this, although one is being constructed in Nevada. How do you answer those concerns that the waste that is being generated is going to be a legacy for many, many generations to come?

FERTEL: Miles, all wastes leave a legacy and that doesn't mean that nuclear waste isn't one that does that. I think we have a responsibility to manage our waste no matter what the source of energy is, or actually for any other products we produce, responsibly. And right now what's happening with nuclear waste is it's being managed very responsibly at the nuclear power plants as they generate it and they store it.

The responsibility the government has, and I think that this is agreed to by scientists worldwide, the best place to put nuclear waste ultimately for disposal is deep geologic repositories. You put it in a formation that's been stable for millions of years. You engineer that facility and you leave it there.

O'BRIEN: Mr....

FERTEL: And I think that's what's going on.

O'BRIEN: Ms. Aurilio, would you like to respond to that on the issue of the waste?

AURILIO: Yes. This waste is probably the most dangerous thing that human beings have created. It remains dangerous and must be isolated from humans and the environment for at least a quarter of a million years. And one of the questions I have for Mr. Fertel and other people in the nuclear industry is if this waste is so safe and can be safely managed, then why are you lobbying to relax safety standards for a potential nuclear waste dump? I mean Mr. Fertel's group is saying that the waste dump should be allowed to contaminate the ground water near Yucca Mountain, Nevada. That's ridiculous.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Fertel, do you want to respond to that and then we are just out of time.

FERTEL: That would certainly be ridiculous so we're obviously not doing that. No one cares about safety more than the people that work in the nuclear industry. We live near our plants. We work at the plants and we're very smart about how to handle radiation. What we are basically looking for at Yucca Mountain, if that's the site you go to, are standards that protect the public health and safety.

And what Anna is saying is really misleading. There's been $7 billion spent studying the science at Yucca Mountain. It will be the most studied facility in the world. It's not a dump. It's an engineered facility 1,000 feet below the surface. When it ultimately goes forward, if it does -- and it needs to be licensed and the standards will be very rigorous -- the standard that we're basically saying seems acceptable is the same standard that exists for the current operating plants.

AURILIO: Mr. Fertel's organization is trying to say that safe drinking water standards that protect us all from water that we drink should not apply to the water in Nevada near the nuclear waste dump. He would like people in Nevada to be exposed to higher levels of radioactive waste than would be allowed in drinking water anywhere else in the country. That's unacceptable.

FERTEL: And not true.

O'BRIEN: All right, we're going to have to leave it at that point and I don't think that we've settled this debate. It's a familiar debate, which is once again on the front burner, if you will, here in the United States as we talk about an energy policy. I appreciate you both joining us, Marvin Fertel with the Nuclear Energy Institute, Anna Aurilio with the U.S. Public Interest Resource Group. Both of you, we appreciate your time in joining here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

FERTEL: Thank you, Miles. AURILIO: Have a great day.

O'BRIEN: You, too.

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