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CNN Saturday Morning News

Reporter's Notebook: The Yates Murders

Aired June 23, 2001 - 09:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The five young children killed in their Houston home were unknown to most of us, but now the nation mourns their death.

Last night, dozens of people, friends, family, strangers alike, gathered near the family's home for a candlelight vigil. On Wednesday, the children's mother, Andrea Yates, told police she'd drowned her children. She is jailed on charges of capital murder right now.

Her husband, Russell, says was suffering from postpartum depression.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSELL YATES, CHILDREN'S FATHER: We're primarily concerned with, you know, right now just tending to my kids, and, you know, making sure they get a good burial, you know, and treated good. And my wife, I'm supportive of her, you know. It's hard because, you know, on the one hand, I know she killed our children, you know, but on the other, I know that, you know, the woman here is not the woman that killed my children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: The deaths, the grief, and the mother's illness, that is today's focus in our "Reporter's Notebook" section.

Joining our discussion, from our Los Angeles bureau is Russell Friedman, who is the executive director of the Grief Recovery Institute in California. He's also co-author of "The Grief Recovery Handbook."

CNN's Ed Lavandera is in Houston. And CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us here in Atlanta. Welcome to all of you gentlemen.

We have some interesting questions and comments, so I'll get right to them.

Sue V. has this one, and I believe we'll just send this one to Ed Lavandera in Houston. "Had the mother of the children ever tried to harm any of the children before this?" Ed, any word on that? ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As far as we know, she had never tried anything like that. Actually one of the initial reports that had come out was that she had actually tried to harm herself back in 1999. There was a suicide attempt that we've learned about. But since then she's been on a series of medication and working through that.

But Russell Yates didn't seem to indicate that she'd ever tried anything like that. In fact, after their fourth child was born, they had a fifth child. So he said that -- you know, doesn't seem like a man who would bring another child into the world worrying about something like this happening.

O'BRIEN: All right. This one comes from Ron Grace. "I've been watching the story of the mother killing the five children, and I wonder what defense she will use. I had a bad childhood myself, I've had a bad marriage, I did not win the lottery? Why does the news media, lawyers, come up with all of these lame excuses?"

And Russell, I'm not going to ask you to account for the news media and lawyers, but nevertheless, you know, as you kind of get into the area of coping with grief and so forth, is this an appropriate course of action to take?

RUSSELL FRIEDMAN, "GRIEF RECOVERY HANDBOOK": Well, everyone gets confused, and there's so much emotion involved. People try to take the energy and shift it somewhere. So they'll get focused on the cause of death and all of the blame areas. And we also have generated a society that seems to have a victim mentality that stems from when we tell your children, Don't do that, you'll make your father mad, or you'll make your mommy proud.

And children then believe that they can make other people feel, and people can make them feel. And it evolves later to where we're not responsible for our own actions. And it's a very difficult thing. We've all talked about victim society, and I think the media thing you're talking about is an extension of that victim mentality.

O'BRIEN: Kyra?

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we got a phone call, actually, from Florida. Lark on the line, and I believe the question is directed to Dr. Gupta. Go ahead, Lark.

CALLER: Yes, I don't understand why the media has not gone more into mental illness and explained that this is a brain disease. They're different from cancer, diabetes, or any other illness, it just happens to affect the brain, which does affect behavior. This woman needs help. She needs treatment. She does not need to be in prison. This has not been addressed in the media at all.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we certainly have talked about postpartum depression, as Russell Yates referred to in his talk a couple days ago. There's been a lot about postpartum depression and how it affects women in the postpartum period. And I think that sort of trying to fit that to what the woman has gone through has been done in the media. I've talked about that a few times.

Whether or not that's exactly what caused this is something that's still subject to speculation, and I think that's what we're focusing a lot of our energy on now.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's take another e-mail question. And this one comes from -- I don't have the name right here. But let's get right to it. "Mr. Yates, during his sidewalk interview, indicated that Andrea, his wife, was not taking Haldol during her latest crises but had taken Haldol in the past. Recent news reports indicate that she was taking Haldol for her second crisis. Since there is a big difference in conditions for the use of this drug, which of these stories is true?"

Doctor -- I'll tell you what, let's take it to Ed first. Do you know about the use of this particular drug? Have they confirmed that one way or another, Ed?

LAVANDERA: Mr. Yates talked about that on Wednesday. Haldol was used. There was a change in medication about a month ago. Mrs. Yates -- her father passed away about a month ago, and Mr. Yates seemed to suggest that that kind of triggered another round of depression, and at that time they changed the medication, and I think Haldol was being used in -- during some window in there. The exact time and up until this past week, I'm not exactly clear on.

O'BRIEN: Dr. Gupta?

GUPTA: Yes, she was on three medications, from what I understand, Wellbutrin, Effexor, and Haldol intermittently in the past, to treat the depressive episodes that have been occurring since '99. As I had mentioned before, postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis, can occur and recur. So you can actually have lapses of, you know, complete sort of normal undepressed behavior in between.

And that may have been why the medications were changed around, Miles. I'm not exactly sure about that. But all three of those medications are to treat depression, and in some part to treat psychosis.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's send this next one to Russell Friedman out in California. "It seems to me that if she," referring to Andrea Yates, "were not terribly ill, her husband would be crying out for vengeance. We are not doctors, and we are not qualified to judge her guilt, or whether there were extenuating circumstances."

And I'm just going to add a footnote to that, Mr. Friedman. It seems to me there have been a lot of people who have made judgments about the nature of Mr. Yates' grief, taking really a very public sort of grief. What are your thoughts on that?

FRIEDMAN: Yes, this is something of great importance to the Grief Recovery Institute and to -- really to everyone in America. Everyone is putting their own spin on how he looked in that first night, and clearly he had to have been in some kind of state of shock. You know, you don't have to be a doctor to figure that out. But there are six major myths that people use incorrectly in dealing with grief, and we talk about them a lot. But the one that seemed most obvious to me, that he was in this crisis, being strong for his wife. Being strong for others or being strong is one of the major myths that people use to try to deal with loss. And although it's touching that he is very, very concerned for her, it seems -- it kind of looks like it has separated him from his own grief.

And I think people are judging him without -- obviously I wouldn't judge him, I have never talked to him. I would -- I guarantee you his heart is broken in a million pieces. I just get sad when I see people making a judgment about someone who's got cameras in his face after his five children died, and I think everyone needs to back off and say, Wow, I can't imagine what it would be like if that happened to me.

O'BRIEN: All right. Good point.

Rosalia, I don't know her last name, offers this. "What I do not understand about the tragic killings in Texas is, if the mother was so distraught and suffered from postpartum badly, why would she have been left alone with her five children?"

Ed Lavandera, any explanations on that?

LAVANDERA: Well, actually, from what Mr. Yates told us earlier in the week, she didn't spend a whole lot of time alone with the children. He told us that kind of the routine of a normal day would be that he left for work -- he worked at -- he's a computer engineer on the space shuttle program at NASA -- he would leave for work shortly before 9:00 in the morning, and Mrs. Yates's mother or his mother would come to the house about 10:00, an hour later. And then she would stay throughout the day until when Mr. Yates arrived home from work, and then he'd be there in the evening.

So, you know, it's not really sure exactly how much alone time she had with the kids, without someone else being around.

O'BRIEN: All right. And one other thing, "Isn't this a case of a very sick woman who really needs hospitalization now? It seems like every time we hear about these stories, the woman immediately is placed in a cell. Are we a civilized society, or are we a vindictive society?" That from Peter Anderson.

Dr. Gupta, I'll let you take that first. You know, this is a woman who by most accounts has some mental illness issues. Is jail the appropriate place for her right now?

GUPTA: Well, it is difficult to speculate, Miles. It certainly sounds like she fits some of the patterns of what is known as postpartum psychosis. Postpartum psychosis, postpartum depression affects many women in the postpartum period. Whether or not, you know, she needs to be treated for that now, or this is something that should be addressed, figured out, diagnosed, and treated later is something that we're going to have to wait and see.

O'BRIEN: All right. Mr. Friedman, I'll let you finish it up with another thought on that.

FRIEDMAN: Yes, one of the things is, as I read over everything last night, one of the comments Russell Yates made was about the death of his wife's father recently. And he said, "And she just spiraled down after that." One of the tip-offs, in addition to what Dr. Gupta is saying, with whatever pathology there is, when you add a major grief issue, it just can spiral everything completely out of control.

So you have a broken-hearted person on top of whatever chemistry and pathology in her body, and it just made -- as Russell Yates said so poignantly, "I know she did it, but it wasn't her." And I heard that line, and it tore my heart out.

And I think we need -- the other thing, if I can just say quickly, the children of America in the age bracket of the eldest boy need help from their parents to guide them in how to deal effectively with loss and their own fears because of their age bracket. And our book "When Children Grieve" really focuses on helping the parents help the children effectively.

Because the children are going to be scared, there's no doubt about it, and I want them to get as much up as they can.

O'BRIEN: All right. Russell Friedman, we want to thank you in particular for getting up early in Los Angeles and joining us. And the book that you just referred to, "When Children Grieve," is available at Amazon or a bookstore near you. We invite you to check that out.

FRIEDMAN: Thank you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: And thank you very much for being with us. Also thank you to Ed Lavandera in Houston and Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who joined us here in Atlanta, for taking some tough questions on a very difficult story.

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