Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Saturday Morning News

Does Human Rights Record Make China an Unfit Olympics Host?

Aired July 14, 2001 - 09:14   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Some critics are saying that China's human rights record makes it an unfit host for the 2008 Olympic Games.

BRIAN NELSON, CNN ANCHOR: But the Beijing government views its Olympic victory as a worldwide vote of confidence. Some 200,000 people celebrated into the night at Tiananmen Square after the International Olympic Committee announced that China, Beijing, had indeed won the 2008 Games.

For more on the controversy surrounding Beijing's winning bid now, we're joined live from New York by Sidney Jones, the Asia director for the Human Rights Wash -- Watch, that is, excuse me -- and live from Moscow is Philip Hersh, Olympic and international sports specialist for "The Chicago Tribune."

Thank you both for joining us this morning.

I guess I'll begin with the first question to you, Miss Jones. The awarding of the Games to Beijing, do you see that as Beijing, China, getting a free pass on its human rights record?

SIDNEY JONES, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: I think it certainly is cause for concern. We had asked that the International Olympic Committee, the IOC, seek guarantees from the Chinese government first on human rights issues, such as, for example, that there would be no discrimination against people from Taiwan or Tibet, or that during the process of building Olympic sites, there wouldn't be people swept off the streets and detained in special centers for vagrants.

None of these guarantees were forthcoming, and we don't think that the Games by themselves are going to open up China.

NELSON: Well, Philip Hersh, were you surprised by the announcement, the awarding of the Games to Beijing?

PHILIP HERSH, "THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE": Not at all, Brian. I also think you might note that China was so confident it was going to win the Games, it didn't have any public relations release of prisoners and did go ahead with that trial today, even though, of course, the eventual decision of deportment means that they could have it both ways.

So I was not surprised at all, and obviously neither was China. PHILLIPS: Sidney, let's put in perspective the human rights issues here. Everybody talks about human rights abuses, but can we get specific? Are we talking about executions? Are we talking about labor issues, Tibet, Falun Gong?

JONES: We're talking about all of the above, Kyra. We're talking about systematic arrest and detention of people whose views don't coincide with the Chinese government's. We're talking about more executions in the last three months than the rest of the world over the last three years. We're talking about people -- anybody who in any way has threatened the Chinese government's sense of its own power and legitimacy being detained.

And we see these scholars of Chinese descent having been systematically detained over the last six or seven months. We've only had one person deported today, there are several others who are in detention who never should have been arrested.

PHILLIPS: Did the IOC, the International Olympic Committee, even try to get any guarantees on human rights through all this, do you know?

JONES: Not to our knowledge. It's clear that every member of that International Olympic Committee got hundreds or thousands of e- mails, letters, and so on urging them to take human rights into account, so that the human rights issue became one of the key debates on the selection.

But as far as we know, the IOC didn't even seek guarantees from the government.

NELSON: I have a question for both of you. We've -- you just mentioned the trial of this individual, this American passport holder. We've also seen the continued oppression, I guess, would be the word, of Falun Gong. And we've had that confrontation with the United States over the spy plane.

All of this has taken place in the run-up to the awarding of the Games, and Beijing has apparently had no worries at all, has been almost immune to any pressure, any fear that it might lose the Games, and has just gone ahead with behavior as normal.

So what kind of controls will now be in Beijing, if there are any, on its human rights record now that the city has won the Games?

JONES: I think one of the things that will be...

HERSH: Well, the International Olympic Committee, it...

NELSON: Let's...

HERSH: Sorry. The International Olympic Committee has...

NELSON: Go ahead. Go ahead.

HERSH: The International Olympic Committee has insisted that opening up the Games would be a good way to try to get more scrutiny of China. I'm not so sure that that's going to really make any difference. If -- what kind of scrutiny they can have and what kind of threats that they can have against China if they don't meet whatever amorphous demands for improvements in human rights the IOC has sort of hinted at, the threat of taking away the Olympic Games is obviously there, but it's not a very realistic threat, because you can't just move the Olympic Games around from day to day.

If in five years they start an enormous crackdown on dissidents, and more executions and other reprehensible behavior, at that late date, there'll be almost no chance to move the Olympics.

The IOC simply was swayed by the argument that the most populous country on earth deserves it regardless of its political and social system.

NELSON: Sidney Jones, was that a good argument, was that reasonable?

JONES: It was clearly an argument that it was not based on an assessment of the political and economic developments in China.

But I would say that I think now the -- one of the sources of pressure on human rights could well be the corporate sponsors. There's going to be a huge number of companies that are underwriting the financial costs of these Games. I think it would be in the interests of, for example, media companies and computer companies to try and press, over the next seven years, for a lifting of all controls over Internet content, for example. It's in those companies' interests to do that.

So I think now the burden shifts to the corporate sponsors.

PHILLIPS: And freedom of expression, I would assume, would be something you think that everybody should take part in, from the corporate side to the media side. How does that happen if there are rules and regulations not allowing for that?

JONES: I think the money -- that money is going to...

HERSH: Well, the Chinese have...

PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Philip, and then Sidney.

HERSH: I'm sorry. The Chinese government, the Chinese people here in the bid committee all said that there will be greater media freedom. Of course, that remains to be seen. Our -- speaking of freedom, our correspondent in Beijing reported last night that at approximately 2:00 a.m. Beijing time, the Chinese herded -- police herded people off the streets in Tiananmen Square, and some of them likened the herding off the streets to the way that they were herded off the streets at Tiananmen Square 12 years ago.

So it's clear that China has a long way to go in a million areas, and press freedom, which they claim that there will be more of, is something that definitely needs to be monitored. PHILLIPS: All right, Sidney, wrap us up.

JONES: Just to say once again that the Games by themselves are not going to open a repressive government, but that if you have systematic pressure from outside, from governments, from corporations, and so on, maybe, just maybe, the Games could be a positive force.

NELSON: All right, on that note, we thank you both for joining us this morning. From New York, Sidney Jones, the Asia director for the Human Rights Watch, and from Moscow, Philip Hersh, Olympic and international sports specialist for "The Chicago Tribune." Appreciate you both being with us.

PHILLIPS: Great insight.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com