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CNN Saturday Morning News

America's New War: Terrorism Expert Discusses Osama bin Laden

Aired September 15, 2001 - 13:23   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me now, Peter Bergen, who is writing a book on Osama bin Laden. Peter, I just want to cite something else the president said today. He said, "it's a conflict without battlefield or beachheads, a conflict with opponents who believe they are invisible, and yet they are mistaken." Do they believe they are invisible, Peter?

PETER BERGEN, TERRORISM EXPERT: Well, they are certainly in a country they know intimately well, and the United States knows very little about. The United States closed its embassy in Afghanistan in 1989, we don't have any information on the ground about the situation there, really. We have to rely on other people like the Pakistanis for information.

So if you're considering a ground campaign in Afghanistan, you're going to go into, A, one of the most inhospitable places in the world; B, a place bin Laden know intimately well because he's been there on and off since 1986; and C, a place we have very little information about.

WOODRUFF: Let me ask you about the neighboring country of Pakistan. As you know, the president, the administration has laid down -- thrown down the gauntlet ,in effect, to Pakistan and other countries, saying you're either with us or you're against us. Here are specific things we want you to do, and you're either on our side or you are not.

My question to you is, how likely is it that Pakistan is going to go along with some of these things?

BERGEN: I think the Pakistani leader General Musharraf is in a very difficult position. He obviously wants to go along with the United States. Pakistan has traditionally been an ally of the United States. But you've got remember that in Pakistan, Osama bin Laden is a very popular man in Pakistan. It's a common first name now for sons, Osama. You see Osama bakeries springing up. On the street in Pakistan, Osama is a bit of a folk hero.

So, Musharraf has to a balance the interest of A, you know, being somewhat accommodating to the United States; but B, the political reality that Osama bin Laden is a rather popular man in his own country. So what that will mean in practice we don't know yet from the Pakistanis -- does that mean we'll give you airspace, does that mean we'll allow you to use our country as a staging ground for a ground operation?

WOODRUFF: Air face, let's talk about staging. Are there bases already in Pakistan that the U.S. could use if it decided to go after bin Laden and his people in Afghanistan?

BERGEN: There are bases. I mean, actually an interesting historical note -- Gary Powers, remember the U-2, the pilot who was shot down by the Russians in '62, took off from a base inside Pakistan, so there are plenty of air bases near the border that one could use. I just think it is going to be politically very hard for Musharraf to kind of sign onto that.

WOODRUFF: But if he doesn't, he must know there are consequences.

BERGEN: Yes. I mean, he's in a very tough spot. But I think that last time we sent cruise missile attacks in Osama bin Laden's direction, we didn't actually inform the Pakistanis anything about that plan until the cruise missiles were actually in the air, and a general actually went to the leadership of the country and said, "you're not under attack from India, your traditional rival, these are the United States cruise missiles going against bin Laden."

Obviously, this time we're not going to -- everybody will be informed. One last note, Judy -- surprise is key to any military operation. We clearly have sacrificed that ability at that moment. Bin Laden must be planning some kind of, you know, counter-veiling measure.

WOODRUFF: And I asked you about that when you and I talked about this a day or so ago. I said, "every day that goes by with the administration talks about or says it's talking about what it plans to do gives them -- whether it's bin Laden or any of the people who support him -- time to hide, to go off and make other plans and makes it all the more harder for us to carry out a retaliation."

BERGEN: I'm reminded a little bit of how President Bush's father who -- you know, there was basically this coalition building that's going on. I mean, you sacrifice surprise, but you do build a coalition if you have enough time, which is obviously what his son is doing now.

WOODRUFF: All right. Peter Bergen, formerly a producer for CNN, now writing a book about Osama bin Laden. Peter, thank you very much.

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