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CNN Saturday Morning News

America's New War

Aired September 16, 2001 - 15:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Just watching the mayor, I think New Yorkers know this -- I don't know if people outside the country do -- it's actually been a very tough year for they mayor. He's battled prostate cancer. And this year he's also been involved in a very messy public divorce. And it would be uncomfortable wherever you were but in New York where the tabloids -- the two tabloids -- battle over such things as who can come up with the most detail on such matters, it's made it especially difficult.

It has tended to diminish in some sense, I think, how people view the mayor. But I doubt there are many people in this city, even people who have a fair about of difficulty with Mayor Giuliani who would not say that he has looked anything but diminished in this week. He has been all over town, all over the area, accessible always and generally getting very high marks for his handling of the crisis of his administration, which is coming to an end. Tuesday was Election Day here, in fact, to begin the process of selecting his replacement.

Perhaps this has been mentioned. I'm not sure. But it's the first time I've seen it so let me pass it along. The president will meet, at some point, on -- well, I was going to say Monday. Now, I'm not sure it's Monday, but in any case, there's a plan for the president to meet with the executives of the nation's airlines. The nation's airlines are having -- were having a very difficult time before this, in fact. Obviously, this has been a devastating week for them. In the prospects, moving ahead, aren't very good either. And there's a lot of concern about their financial stability.

Continental is talking about laying off 12,000 people and cutting its flights back. Once it even gets to whatever normal is going to be, cutting its regularly scheduled flights back by 20 percent. Northwest Airlines saying much the same thing. Other airlines are having trouble.

The House, last night, began work on a bill that would make direct cash payments of about -- of a little more than $2 billion to the airlines plus another $12 billion in loan guarantees. The Transportation Secretary is saying that they're quite concerned about the financial stability of the nation's airlines. This is a hugely important industry.

And Wall Street will get back to business as normal Monday morning. And in fact, they are testing the systems and they are getting encouraging news that the electronics that's helped communications and the like down on Wall Street is working fine. So that business will get back to normal or whatever normal is now on Monday.

It's going to be a long time before the airline industry gets back to anything approaching normal. And that is a -- that is just one but it is a very serious economic impact issue. This thing is not simply about the damage done. It's going to be extraordinarily expensive to rebuild and the rest. But you have, going forward, serious economic questions that need to be addressed. And none of them is going to cheap.

And the mere notion that Congress is talking about a two plus billion dollar direct payment to the nation's airlines -- that is cash to them to keep them going, gives you some idea of how serious that situation is being seen certainly by the representatives of the airlines who are working the halls of Congress to try and get some help. The administration has taken no position on that yet.

Martin Savidge down in the streets of New York where the recovery operation goes on -- Marty.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, obviously, we've been focusing on the rescue effort. We've been focusing on the victims and they are first and foremost, both those topics, in the minds of everyone. But I wanted to show you some other people who are victims here as well.

If you look off on the corner that is just underneath the sign advertising about roses, that group of people, there have been people lining up there all day long. These are people that are local residents. People that live inside the exclusion zone immediately in the area surrounding what used to be the World Trade Center. And they are people that no longer have a home. Their home still exists. Their apartment still exists but they cannot live in it. They have all been evacuated.

And what they are waiting for is that they will be given the opportunity to be escorted to their apartment and under escort, they have 10 minutes -- 10 minutes to grab whatever it is they think they need, whatever they believe they need to carry on and that's it, then they leave. You see many of them coming down the street with whatever belongings they could grab in that short amount of time. And all day long, people have been coming and going doing that. It's likely that they will be out of their apartments for quite some time.

And joining me to talk more on that subject and others is Michael Beman. He is with FEMA here in New York, in the New York region. And that is of course, the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

Michael, thank you for being with us.

MICHAEL BEMAN, FEMA: No problem.

SAVIDGE: Let's talk about these people who have displaced. There is assistance that can be available to them. BEMAN: They very easily could be eligible for federal assistance, if rental assistance. If they have been displaced from the apartments down here because of this disaster, they are eligible for federal assistance for that. There's a lot of categories people are eligible for such as medical assistance, funeral assistance, the rental assistance that we talked about. And there are a lot of other categories.

They simply need to call a 1-800 number that we've been putting out. It's 1-800-462-9029. And once they call there, it's a seamless process. They provide the information. They're given a case number. From that there on it's tracked by that case number as to what their eligibility will be. And then they'll start receiving funds from the federal government.

SAVIDGE: How quickly though will they get the money?

BEMAN: Actually, at some of our disasters in the past, we've been able to get checks out as quickly as three days after we've started taking in the information. It depends on the category of assistance that they're applying for.

SAVIDGE: And that number once more just so people can...

BEMAN: It's 1-800-462-9029.

SAVIDGE: Let's talk about something else. We have spoken a great deal about communications that people had with those cellular telephones, many people who were inside the building.

BEMAN: Right.

SAVIDGE: Now, through technology, it's sort of -- we're trying to work it in reverse in that you are trying not necessarily to communicate with the individual but to their cell phone. Tell us how that is working.

BEMAN: Right, Lucent Technology came forward to us some time in the last day or two and said we have the technology to be able -- if you can get us the numbers and send the signal to them, we'll be able to go ahead and figure out where those cell phones or pagers are. So we were asking anybody that knows of anyone missing and they have a cell phone number or a pager number for them or other -- some other communication device. Some Palm Pilots, I understand, are able to have communication devices. If that call that number and they give us those numbers that they know of so that we can that signal sent to us. So Lucent can give us some idea of where we should be looking for those people that are still missing.

That number is 877-348-8579. And we really appreciate that you log -- getting on it nationally because these numbers could be anywhere in the country, that somebody knows of somebody that's missing and has a cell phone or pager that they're used to calling. So we'd appreciate getting as much of this word out across the country.

SAVIDGE: Give us another idea of some of the other things that FEMA is directly involved in.

BEMAN: Well, there -- since FEMA is the agency responsible, it has the kind of the orchestration of all other federal agencies of drawing in whatever resource is there. I know that Health and Human Services' people involved. They have the disaster mortuary affairs teams in here. They also have the disaster or medical assistance teams in here.

The Coast Guard is deeply involved right now because, of course, they're only allowing so many ships into the ports about an hour-and- a-half apart before the ships come in and make sure all the paperwork's in line.

But there are an outnumbering list of federal agencies that are directly involved in this operation and trying to help this community recover from it.

SAVIDGE: Michael Beman, we know that we will be hearing from FEMA and probably from you over the next days and weeks. Thank you very much. We wish your organization good luck.

BEMAN: Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

SAVIDGE: You might have heard the applause there and you might think it's a bit out of place so close to the proximity of the World Trade Center here. But actually, this being a Saturday afternoon, many people have been drawn down to this particular point. And each time that they see firefighters and rescuers coming out, every one of them, they treat to a round of applause. It gives you the sense of the feeling here on the streets even as close as we are to what used to be the World Trade Center -- Aaron.

BROWN: Martin, thanks. I was -- my eye is drawn behind you to that -- I'm sure you know what I'm looking at, that string of American flags that line the street behind you. Has that been there for the last couple of days or is that new today?

SAVIDGE: It -- flags have been appearing down here recently, within the past number of days, it's been growing. Not just flags that are buildings, flags that are on people. We were over on the west side highway. There, there was a gentleman there that bought a huge bolt of cloth with the American flag in place, all over it. And what he was doing was cutting out little flags and handing it to each of the firefighters and police officers and pinning it on the backs of them so that as they go into do their job, that the American flag would be with them and be worn properly.

BROWN: This is -- just as you were saying that a Verizon -- Verizon is a phone company here -- a truck went by with a flag on it. We're coming in; we saw cabs with flags, cars on the highway with flags.

Thank you Marty. Martin Savidge down on the ground there.

One quick note, I want -- and I want to go to the Pentagon. I came across this a moment ago and just a sense of how jittery things are in the country. A man was taken off a Delta Airlines flight, Boston -- that would be Boston Logan and you see the significance there -- to Atlanta for what's described as suspicious and rowdy behavior. The man was -- quote -- "vaguely Arab looking" -- end quote -- I don't have a clue what that means to be honest -- and kept changing seats in first class. It's very jittery there. It's very jittery period.

We saw a little bit ago, about an hour or so ago, some new pictures of the Pentagon and the damage that was done there. We want to show you those again and talk some about the effort to put the Pentagon back together. Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre joins us now.

Jamie, good afternoon.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Aaron. Well, Pentagon officials today, specifically, the manager of the Pentagon renovation project because as you know, the Pentagon is undergoing a 10-year renovation, vowed to rebuild the Pentagon as good as new, perhaps even better than new, even replicating the historic limestone facade of the Pentagon that was built during World War II, at -- originally built in 16 months as part of the build up to World War II. The Pentagon now has let the first contract; $145 million to a local Virginia firm to put it back together.

As they went through and showed us some of the pictures in side the building, they noted that in the new section, the blast resistance windows did not shatter, even the news right near where the plane went in. While in the old section of the Pentagon that had not yet be renovated, some of those windows had broken. And people I've talked to here who were in the offices with those new, shatter resistant windows said they thought they saved their lives. There's also a sprinkler system and many other modern features in the renovated part of the building.

The Pentagon -- officials here say this building has not been up to code since 1953. That was the last time it met all the fire and electrical codes. And they're going to change that now as part of the renovation.

This is, of course, the world's largest government office building. They're going to have to remove approximately 350 million pounds of debris. And they're going to have to demolish the Pentagon down the concrete columns and fort floor slabs and then rebuild a space that's equivalent to more than two Empire State Buildings as part of this renovation. It's going to take years but they say they will do it as quickly as possible and get people back into that building, which they say will be better than new -- Aaron.

BROWN: It's a building, Jamie; you go to work in every day. We were talking, I think it was yesterday afternoon, about the fact that for all of the power of television, television doesn't necessarily do these sorts of things justice, that when you see it firsthand, up close, in person, not on a 26 inch screen, it is much, much worse. I almost said much more impressive -- much worse than ever. Is that your impression as you look at it there? MCINTYRE: You know, I was reviewing some of this video that they released today and sometimes it's the smallest things that really touch you. One of the shots showed a desk with a computer. You can see a bowl of overturned fruit and candy, a pair of eyeglasses on the desk, an Army coin that all survived the blast right where somebody had died. And when you see that, it really brings home that these were people working at these desks at the time this event happened. And it just -- it really does bring home the magnitude of what has happened here.

It -- there's the shot -- one of the shots I was talking about on the air now, the eyeglasses there on the desk.

BROWN: Yes. And the suddenness of it all.

MCINTYRE: Exactly. There you see the overturned bowl. And it just -- it's also incredible though, when you think about it, how low the death toll was considering that in this wedge of the building, this side of the building, nearly 10,000 people work -- five and 10,000 work in this area. But because this was a part that was under renovation and some people were moving and because of simply the sturdiness of the building, 189 people died. A tragic number but it could have been worse if not for the fortress quality, the way this building was built back during World War II.

And you know, at the time, they didn't have much steel because steel was needed for the war effort. So they had to use a lot of concrete to make this building strong enough to withstand it. And originally, they didn't think the Pentagon was going to be used after World War II. They thought it would probably become a storage facility so they made the specifications strong enough that it could hold thousands of pounds of records and you know, how heavy those can be.

So the Pentagon is very solidly built. And so when they rebuild it, they'll be putting more steel in to reinforce it. It'll be even stronger.

BROWN: And just to briefly underscore something, when we -- and 189 is a lot of people and in those senses, it's intended to minimize that but that includes the 44 people, I think...

MCINTYRE: Sixty-four people.

BROWN: ... on the airplane.

MCINTYRE: Sixty-four people.

BROWN: Yes, who were on the airplane. So actually, the death toll for people who were actually working at the Pentagon...

MCINTYRE: Was 125.

BROWN: And that's particularly -- that number is especially low when you consider some of the earlier reports. Jamie, as we go along, we need to begin, I think I do at least, focusing more on how not to the building but to the people inside the building, what they're doing and what plans may be in play as we go along this afternoon and tonight. I suspect we'll be heading in that direction. Thanks for your work today.

No one believes by the way that there are any more survivors in the rubble of the Pentagon. That number now is a pretty firm number. Not the case here in New York where it's still unclear if any of the 5,000 or so people who are listed as missing may still be alive, which is why people continue to come to the armory in New York, to bring information about their missing loved ones. Elizabeth Cohen remains on duty there -- Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, exactly. That's why they come to the armory. And today, they have a new reason to come to the armory. The officials inside are taking DNA swabs. They're swabbing the inside of the blood relatives' cheeks to try to cross match with DNA found on the sight. And we'll talk about that a little later.

Before we get to the DNA, I want to introduce you to Mary Hart- Wolfenberger (ph) and her nephew, Jed Hart (ph). They're looking for Mary's brother, John Hart (ph).

Thank you for coming out here with us. I want to ask you, he was in the second tower.

MARY HART-WOLFENBERGER (ph), SISTER OF VICTIM: Yes.

COHEN: And after the first explosion managed to call his wife.

HART-WOLFENBERGER (ph): Yes, my brother was in the south tower. And after the first plane hit, he did call his wife in California and told her that he was fine. They were evacuating and that he would call her as soon as he was safe. We have reports that he did make it to the ground floor but that he went back in to try to help other people.

After the second plane hit, John did go -- did call his wife again on his cell phone and tell her that he was in trouble. And the cell phone did go dead and that was the last we have heard from my -- from my brother. But we're working hard here and trying to get every -- all the information we can to the authorities inside the armory, trying to provide them with any information that might help John's family, to bring John home.

I wanted to encourage all of the folks who are down working in that terrible rubble where my brother is. And the folks who are going to be receiving the DNA samples that we gave today, that they're telling us those DNA samples are being sent to Albany. And there must be an army of lab workers up there who are going to be working with that and we really want to encourage those folks and tell them how important it is to help us find my brother, John, and bring him home.

COHEN: This is your brother's Christmas card right down here. HART-WOLFENBERGER (ph): Yes.

COHEN: Can you -- can you introduce us to his family?

HART-WOLFENBERGER (ph): Yes, this is my brother's family in California, in Danva (ph), California. This Emily who is five years old, Weston who is seven, Amy who's a senior in high school and Jeff who is a sophomore at Kent State University in Ohio and...

COHEN: And he was -- they live in California. Tell me why he was here.

HART-WOLFENBERGER (ph): John is an employee of Franklin Templeton, the mutual fund company and they have a subsidiary at the World Trade Center, Fiduciary Trust. My understanding is Fiduciary had more than 700 employees in the south tower. John was here to teach a seminar on the day of the disaster. And all of the employees at Fiduciary who were in that seminar are missing.

COHEN: Mary, thank you, thank you.

HART-WOLFENBERGER (ph): Thank you so much.

COHEN: Mary went in and gave a swab today as John's sister. The swabs are best actually not from a sibling but from a parent or a child. And Mary was describing what sounds to me like a very sad scene. People, yesterday, weren't bringing their children in here because of course, how could they help but today, they can so children are inside having their cheeks swabbed so that they can help find their parents. They've set up a little playroom with toys for the children.

But again, the children and the parents are the best people to swab. So people are bringing their children in. They're swabbing their cheeks so they can match the DNA up with their parents -- Aaron.

BROWN: Elizabeth, I don't believe we've talked much about this but when you watch the workers behind us, over at the Trade Center site, it is such a meticulous effort and they are looking for -- and this is gruesome -- but any remains they can find because -- and that's where this DNA comes in. And the reason they do this is because people need this sense of -- I hate this word but closure, of completion. They need something that says their person, their friend, their husband, their wife, whatever has come home in some way.

COHEN: Absolutely. Absolutely. They need a sense -- actually, Mary told me, when we were -- I interviewed her off camera and she said, "I am feeling pessimistic now. I have less hope but I want him to come home one way or another."

BROWN: Yes. Elizabeth, thank you. We'll be checking in again. Down at -- really, they're -- I think I saw the number 4,700 have been -- are a good deal of number of people who have been checked into hospitals. And it actually goes on even now because it's dangerous down in the work site. People slip, fall, get hurt, get things in their eye. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is down there for us. Doc, what is the scene?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Aaron, that's exactly right. We don't have as many patients here as I think the doctors were expecting originally. In fact, there's only about 30 to 35 patients that are still in hospital today, four days later from Tuesday.

But we do see a lot more, as -- and you can see behind me, Aaron -- it's really, really striking, a sort of missing persons wall with many people gathered around it. You can see an American flag. A lot of folks are coming up here, putting up the signs of their loved one -- the poster of their loved ones. And a lot of neighbors, friends, relatives are coming by to check those things out.

As people and the -- and the leadership of this country are looking, investigating who might have committed this tragedy, there are other sorts of investigations as well. A little bit more grizzly and that is the identification of the bodies. And there are many different techniques. Elizabeth, and you just sort of were talking about DNA.

I spoke to a couple of the medical examiners that talked specifically about other techniques they might use. One thing is they told that was rather striking is that almost never do they use visualization alone, looking at a picture of a corpse. That is almost never the only way a body is verified. They look at x-rays, dental x- rays. They look at x-rays of the patient they have had beforehand. They look at all sorts of different skin markings such as tattoos and certainly DNA, any DNA of a razor, toothbrush, hairbrush, anything that can be brought in that can be compared. And certainly, the DNA of the parents is also the most useful.

These are what the medical examiners are dealing with now. It is a grizzly task. About 92 bodies, only, have been identified as of yet. So they have a lot of work in front of them -- Aaron.

BROWN: I was just thinking, as you were talking about -- when you said it's not as busy, thank goodness as it was -- maybe as the people expected. What it must have been like at St. Vincent's would you -- and I think the closest, big hospital, at least to the Trade Center, what it must have been like there Tuesday at about noon as the flood of injured came in.

GUPTA: That's right. I talked to a lot of -- a lot of the doctors here, some of whom are my close friends, Aaron. And they said -- they said that they were expected thousands of patients. They were on stand-by. They were calling people to have them ready to come in should the demand be there. And frankly, they were surprised.

After that first wave of patients that they referred to as the walking wounded, people who had many abrasions, smoke inhalation, eye injuries, things like that, they weren't seeing a lot more patients. And that certainly was a sort of harbinger that they did not want to see, Aaron.

BROWN: I was going to say, it -- I'm sure they would have liked to have been a lot more busy in that regard than it turned out.

Doc, thanks for -- thanks for your work here. We appreciate it.

GUPTA: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Back to Atlanta for a bit. A special edition of "TALKBACK LIVE" with Bobbie Battista.

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