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CNN Saturday Morning News

Interview With James Rubin

Aired October 13, 2001 - 07:18   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. is taking great pains to portray Operation Enduring Freedom as a war against terrorism, and not a war against Islam. But the Muslim world isn't entirely convinced, and anti-U.S. demonstrations are becoming common in some areas.

Secretary of State Colin Powell is heading to the region next week to shore up support for the U.S. war against terrorism.

Joining us today with some insight on Powell's task is former assistant secretary of state James Rubin.

Good morning to you, Mr. Rubin, or good afternoon, where you are. Thank you for joining us.

JAMES RUBIN, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Good morning to you.

SAVIDGE: Let me ask you this. What is the primary purpose, what is it that Colin Powell has to achieve as he visits Pakistan and the region now?

RUBIN: Well, I think he's got two aspects of his trip. He's going to go to India and Pakistan. With the Indians, he's got to make them feel a little better about being left out in the cold. They were the first country, probably, in the world to offer the use of their bases for American soldiers in the event of an attack on Afghanistan.

When the Pakistani position changed, and they offered to cooperate with us, we said thanks but no thanks to the Indians. And perhaps they're feeling a little left out in the cold.

In Pakistan, I think it's a very simple task. General Musharraf has made a very bold and brave decision to reject the views of a small but very vocal minority of his population who support the Taliban, who oppose the United States' action, and probably cheered the murder of innocent people on September 11. He's opposing those people. It's imposing a cost. There's going to be crackdowns, and he very much wants to get the support of the United States in the days and weeks ahead, so that the cost of this support of American policy brings some benefits to him in the long run.

SAVIDGE: One of the things that Americans may not understand, the names of nations involved, or said to be involved, in this coalition may sound the same as the Gulf War, but the situation is definitely not the same, one of the big differences being that those nations are not threatened by attack.

How difficult does that make for the U.S. to keep the coalition?

RUBIN: Well, it is very difficult. This is a different coalition than the one in the Gulf War. And the best example of that is that Russia and China tend to be fully supportive of what the United States is doing here, and neither of them were particularly supportive of the Gulf War on the ground.

The Arab states feel that they have to support us privately, give us air space, give us overflight rights, give us intelligence information, but publicly, because, let's face it, so much of American foreign policy is resented in that part of the world, they do not want to be too publicly associated with it.

It's a simple reality. There are a whole bunch of reasons, some fair and some unfair, that American foreign policy and America itself is resented very much in the Arab world. And so many of these governments cannot be as public as they were in the Gulf War, when an Arab state had invaded another Arab state, and the United States was defending the Arabs against this aggressor, Saddam Hussein.

SAVIDGE: One of the things that makes it more awkward for these Middle Eastern nations is that amongst their people, Osama bin Laden is being perceived almost as a cult figure here, very popular. How do you combat that?

RUBIN: Well, this is a very difficult task. The reality is that because he's cleverly adopted the Palestinian cause or the opposition in the Arab world to American air strikes and sanctions against Iraq, or the American support for the Saudi and Egyptian monarchs, he is perceived as a friend of the underdog, as the man of the people.

The way to confront it, in my opinion, is to go directly to the Arab media and to the Arab world and say to the people, Do you really want to live in the world that Osama bin Laden envisions for you, a world like the Taliban's Afghanistan, a Stone Age caliphate with no freedom, no rights, no economy, and no future? If that's what you want, to live the way the poor people of Afghanistan live, then support Osama bin Laden.

And I think they -- the more they think about the world he's trying to create, the less they're going to like it. But it's a very difficult message to get across.

SAVIDGE: Do you think the United States has done that? Have they been skilled at trying to get that message out there?

RUBIN: Probably not. I think so much of this conflict to date has been about assuring and reassuring the American people, and that's been understandable, because this was, after all, an attack on the United States that led to all of this. And I think they've been a little slow at figuring out what are the best ways to confront Osama bin Laden in the Arab world, in Pakistan, through propaganda and through well-placed interviews and through good arguments. And that's understandable, because it's usually the last thing on your list. But I certainly hope they get to it soon. The more the rest of the world sees this war as one designed only to make Americans safe, rather than civilized countries all over the world safe, the harder it is going to be to maintain support for our just cause.

SAVIDGE: It is going to be difficult. James Rubin, former assistant secretary of state, thank you very much for joining us this morning.

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