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CNN Saturday Morning News

Interview With Marc Miller, Jason File

Aired November 03, 2001 - 08:34   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Even before the bombs began falling in Afghanistan, President Bush warned Americans this would be a different kind of war; it's being waged both at home and abroad. This morning we're going to talk with the authors of this book: "Terrorism Factbook." It's aimed at helping Americans understand this new war.

Coauthor Marc Miller is a military historian and former Army captain. he joins us from Chicago. Coauthor Jason File is a terrorism specialist at Yale Law school.

Gentlemen, good morning.

JASON FILE, COAUTHOR, "TERRORISM FACTBOOK": Good morning.

MARC MILLER, COAUTHOR, "TERRORISM FACTBOOK": Good morning, Kyra..

PHILLIPS: Jason, why don't we begin with you. And tell me, tell all of us, what triggered this idea? Was it a lack of understanding among Americans, do you think, about terrorism?

FILE: Well, I think so. I think that any time that the media is covering something like terrorism, there are certain things that get pretty much all of the coverage. Right now we're seeing that with anthrax and a ground war.

But there are some certain problems with this, given that there's lots of background that people are not familiar with. And I think that it's important for Americans to become more familiar with the history involved so they can put these events in a greater context.

PHILLIPS: And you mentioned the background and the history and -- specifically, I'm thinking of page 23 -- I'm going to go to this quickly. And Marc, I'm going to ask you about this. And that is, you list almost all significant terror group -- terrorist groups. I guess I've got about 39 I counted up.

Now, all of these don't operate like al Qaeda, correct? I mean, for example, if you go to the Revolutionary People's Struggle in Greece or the Red Army Faction in Germany, not all these groups are anti-American, right?

MILLER: All of these groups are terrorist groups. They're characterized by being in nations where they feel like they have no power, and terrorism is the means by which they think they can get their message to the public.

FILE: And can I just add to that also; I think that in addition to the fact that many of them have different goals, and lots of them are domestic, we should also remember that there are other organizations that are structured very similar to the al Qaeda organization, with individual cells that are very difficult to capture. A good example is Sendero Luminoso in Peru.

PHILLIPS: And not all these are anti-American. I know I said that just a minute ago, but isn't that true?

FILE: That's absolutely correct. Lots of them have domestic goals that are involved with either the desire to secede from a particular government that they feel is not adequately representing their interests, as well as other international goals, which may not be United States-specific, but which may involve some of the economic issues that the world is facing today.

PHILLIPS: So where does pathological terrorism tie in here? Sort of that believe in a true cause versus just true craziness; Mark, what do you think?

MILLER: Kyra, you know, the experts classify terrorism in three ways. They say that there's political terrorism. There's criminal terrorism -- that's breaking your kneecaps if you don't pay the loan shark. And pathological terrorism, which is a true mental disorder.

Then the experts go on and break political terrorism into about 18 different subcategories, on religious right and religious left, and social right and social left, and single-issue and all those things.

But the truth is, the closer you get -- well,you have -- they don't do any subcategories on criminal or pathological terrorism. But the closer you get to this individual terrorism -- the person who carries the bomb or flies the airliner into a building, the closer you get to true pathological behavior.

FILE: And we should also add, what we mean by "pathological." I mean, are we talking about pathological according to the goals that they have, or pathological according to the means that they employ.

And I think that it's an important distinction when you're looking at terrorists, because what we find when we're talking about a pathological approach, is an approach that does not recognize the value of innocent human life; something which, I think, is one of the most basic principals in international society. But the goals themselves oftentimes are political goals that may have some rational basis.

PHILLIPS: When you mention "pathological," the first thing that comes to mind is this is someone who just loves to kill.

FILE: Absolutely. And it's something where there's not just a love to kill, but it's almost a need to, as part of an organization. I think that if you look specifically at al Qaeda in Afghanistan, lots of people who are recruited for that organization are individuals who have no hope, and are very easily convinced that they should have a grudge against the United States and the secular West in general.

And I think that it's that type of easy psychology -- that these people are easy to be preyed upon by people such as Osama bin Laden, that you can organize a group such as that.

PHILLIPS: You guys also mention -- make the point that it's not just bombing that's going to win this war; there are a lot of other aspects to this. Mark, you were a captain in the military, do you want to talk a little bit about that, what you think this book points out that people should definitely pay attention to -- maybe intelligence?

MILLER: Well, you know, there are many aspects to this war. And although we call it a war, and it's a military war, there are so many other things besides shooting a rifle at somebody that are going to help win this war. Psychological warfare -- the special operations actually going in and doing something besides just random bombing or artillery shelling. And, of course, the humanitarian aid that we see going in.

I think there are some cynics who say that the humanitarian aid is just trying to put a good spin on what we're doing, but the fact is we have dropped 1 million humanitarian aid rations on Afghanistan over the last four weeks. And that definitely has some help for people that we know are in dire straights.

FILE: Marc is making a great point, too; and I think that it's important to emphasize that humanitarian aid can also be linked to national security concerns for the United States. I think when we see an end to this war in Afghanistan, and we're left with the problem of what to do with a country with such a broken economy, we're going to have to think seriously about the type of humanitarian aid that we can provide, so as to ensure that this area does not become a breeding ground and a recruiting ground for terrorists in the future.

PHILLIPS: Yes, is it fighting a crime, here, or fighting a war? There's a big difference. How...

FILE: Yes, well it's a bit of both. It kind of depends on the circumstances. If you're in an area like Afghanistan, where the terrorist organizations behave much like a small army, I think it's certainly appropriate to treat that group as an army, and treat the response as a military response.

However, when you're talking about an organization which has tendrils which extend throughout the world to different cells in different cities in different countries, it's crucial that we look at it from a crime-control perspective as well, and see what we can do to prevent it and punish it on an international, legal level.

PHILLIPS: Marc Miller...

MILLER: But also...

PHILLIPS: Yes, go ahead. MILLER: But also because we're -- the legal methods that we used are constrained by different laws than the military methods that we use. And bringing in the military means that they can do things that FBI agents or international law enforcement agents can't do.

PHILLIPS: You mentioned -- unfortunately we have to let you guys go, but I do want to make the point of the interesting section about international law and why it's so important here. That's definitely an interesting chapter in your book.

"Terrorism Factbook" -- Marc Miller and Jason File, thank you so much. I also want to make the point that 10 percent of sales donated to the Red Cross, so relief efforts are coming out of this book. gentlemen, thank you so much.

FILE: Thank you Kyra.

MILLER: Thank you Kyra.

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