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CNN Saturday Morning News

Issue of New Afghan Government Takes Center Stage

Aired December 08, 2001 - 09:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN ANCHOR: The issue of developing a broad transitional government for Afghanistan takes center stage.

Someone who can shed some light on that is CNN Afghan specialist Thomas Gouttierre. He has served on the United Nations peacekeeping mission to Afghanistan.

Thanks for joining us today.

THOMAS GOUTTIERRE, CNN AFGHAN SPECIALIST: Nice to be with you, Jeanne.

MESERVE: Mr. Gouttierre, Nic Robertson is now in Kandahar. He reported to us this morning that there is some infighting amongst tribal factions in Kandahar. Is this just a small indication of what difficulties could lie ahead?

GOUTTIERRE: Well, it is an indication of some of the difficulties that remain in Afghanistan, and that really kind of boils down to the whole issue of past warlords. And that's why it's so important for the U.S. government to do what it can to help stabilize and, I think, make substantial and credible the interim government that we've worked so hard to -- with the Afghans to help with together.

There are these remaining pockets throughout the country. We have to remember that it has been 28 years since Afghanistan has had a truly representative government in which there has been any real credible central government. And so Afghans tend to think in terms of regional warlords, more in terms -- than in terms of a national government. And I hope we can help them to reverse that thinking.

MESERVE: Reports this morning that Mullah Mohammed Omar may have made his way out of Kandahar in the dead of night. How much trouble could he cause down the road?

GOUTTIERRE: Well, I think in many ways he has been discredited amongst most Afghans, and so in that regard, I don't know that he could be of any real political impact in the future.

But I think it's important that he be found, be apprehended, and be brought to trial. I think that the Afghans themselves have many, many issues that they would like to have -- to which they'd like to have him answer. And I feel that this needs to happen. It's important for the Afghans to have that in order for them to be able to turn the political page for their future.

MESERVE: Hamid Karzai has reportedly said now that his offer of amnesty for Mullah Omar has been revoked because he has not renounced terrorism. Talk to me a little bit about that, and what it says about the fine lines that he may be trying to walk.

GOUTTIERRE: Well, Hamid Karzai is a man who understands the political makeup of the southern part of Afghanistan, and particularly among the Pashtun tribes, better than anyone I know. He's a very decent, I think, sophisticated, and moderate Afghan who has a pulse on the Pashtuns, the Duranis (ph), the Gilzais (ph), and all. And I think his negotiating the -- with Mullah Mohammed Omar and other Taliban, the surrender of the Taliban, you know, is -- was a very important step, because it avoided the destruction of Kandahar, it avoided a lot of bloodshed.

And I'm sure that the more we read about this, you know, he was not intending to let Mullah Mohammed Omar just walk free in the streets of Kandahar thereafter.

So I think that was probably a walking of the fine line, as you suggest, but also one that I think he understood that he was doing probably to make his government more credible and to avoid the bloodshed that would likely have followed had there not been this surrender.

MESERVE: I've also heard some analysts suggest that Karzai has to do something to distance himself from the U.S., and yet he can't go so far that he would alienate his patrons in the U.S. Does he have the political skills to do that?

GOUTTIERRE: I don't think that he needs to distance himself from the United States, and I don't think that many Afghans feel that as well. I think that's one of the misconceptions that's kind of being internationally correct part of the whole process.

Afghans right now do not see in any way the United States an intrusion in their country, and I think they see us as their hope for trying to rebuild their country and trying to reconstruct their country.

And so I think Hamid, of course, has to show that he is, you know, his own man, and that he is Afghanistan's man. But I don't know that he needs to show that he is distancing himself from the United States. I think the Afghans have felt in the past that we distanced ourselves from Afghanistan after the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, and I think they are most hopeful, and their hope really is based very much on their expectations that we will be with them to reconstruct, not just go after Mullah Mohammed Omar, Osama bin Laden, and the others.

MESERVE: Thomas Gouttierre, thanks for your perspective.

GOUTTIERRE: You bet.

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