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CNN Saturday Morning News

Is bin Laden in Tora Bora?

Aired December 15, 2001 - 07:09   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Certainly the question still resonating most deeply from the battlefield of the war rooms, is Osama bin Laden trapped in the Tora Bora region? A closer look now, a military perspective, retired major general Don Shepperd, the U.S. Air Force, with us live this morning.

General, thanks for getting up really early today. Good morning to you.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: What do you make of these numbers coming out of the Pentagon? Jonathan just talked about them, 230 bombs dropped on one area on Thursday, 180 more in the same place on Friday. It's getting hit pretty hard, huh?

SHEPPERD: It's getting hit very hard. That's a lot of bombs in a small area. But it's also, if you think just a second about the Aspen ski complex, Aspen and that whole area there, and if you think of 230 bombs spread over all those mountains, it sounds like a lot, but it's not really a lot when you consider the whole area.

On the other hand, if you've got good intelligence about where these people are, where the cave openings are, where the concentrations of men are on the ground, then that does mean it's a lot, because it's going on the right targets, Bill.

HEMMER: General, did you hear Tommy Franks yesterday? He said right now the al Qaeda fighters are between a hammer and an anvil. Gives you a pretty good analogy and description for what they're facing right now. Would you agree with it?

SHEPPERD: I would agree with it. Basically what you've got is, you've got a situation where you've got a mountain range with two valleys on either side, the Agam (ph) Valley on the east side and the Wazir Valley on the left side. And then you got the forces from Pakistan on the south blocking the exit into Pakistan.

Now, the other important things that General Franks said were -- was that we can wait longer than they can. This is a very impressive military operation using the Eastern Alliance, using air power and not rushing in either Special Forces or Eastern Alliance troops into a pitched battle before you've applied all the air power that you can. And so I'm very, very impressed with this military operation and the way General Franks is going about it.

HEMMER: And general, you know that mountainous region there, sometimes peaks of 15,000 feet. We're given indications that some troops moved as many as two kilometers yesterday, about 1.2 miles. That's pretty good movement in an area that's tough terrain like that.

SHEPPERD: It really is, because remember, it's not like the flatland where you can roll the tanks and move quickly. In fact, tanks become big targets in the mountains regions there. So it's very, very jagged, it's very, very difficult. Snow has come in that area. We've seen some snow already, making it even more difficult, on the other hand, making infrared targets or heat sources stand out even more.

But it's very difficult, it's very forested with thick cedars and thick fir trees. So it's a tough area to operate.

HEMMER: Yes, general, I don't know if you saw, there's a military analyst -- analysis in "The New York Times" this morning if you get a chance to read it, pick it up. They think, and they are concluding through this report based on the information they're getting, that it's possible, they say, that all the fighting is being carried out by these special operations forces, the special commandos on the ground there.

Would you buy into that theory?

SHEPPERD: No, I would not buy into it at all. I think the Eastern Alliance is carrying the brunt of it. I think our special forces are there to mark targets, gain intelligence. But 80 -- 70 or 80 fighters reportedly in the area from special forces are not going to carry this battle. They're going to be used for specific targets and go into specific areas and mark air targets for the Eastern Alliance. That's not a lot of troops in there, Bill, so they're not carrying the brunt of the battle at all.

HEMMER: If that's the case, then move from eastern Afghanistan to southern Afghanistan here, and if the al Qaeda troops are eventually surrounded and capitulated, if Osama bin Laden, whether he's in there or not, the next step in that country goes where?

SHEPPERD: Well, basically the next step in that country after you capture bin Laden and capture Omar, or are sure they're dead, is to stabilize the whole country, dig out the remaining pockets, which are going to be many, and then assess what the multinational force and stabilizing the new government there. It's going to be a big task, and we're going to be there for quite awhile, Bill, it's not over.

HEMMER: Then even if bin Laden is caught, captured, or killed, is the strength against Omar the same intensity?

SHEPPERD: Yes, and it's going on at the same time. It's not receiving the attention that we are because there's no pitched battle because we don't have him located within a few kilometers. But the intense search for him is going on with Marines and special forces over there in the western part of the country as well.

And I'm convinced we'll get both of these guys one way or the other. But it's still, it's still discouraging that we don't have them in the next few hours. It's just a tough -- it's tough everywhere we go over there to find people.

HEMMER: Got it. Well, we'll see you a lot this morning, we'll see you in our next hour here. General, thanks, Don Shepperd with us live this morning.

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