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CNN Saturday Morning News

U.S. Continues Assaults on Tora Bora

Aired December 15, 2001 - 08:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: First, though, to the front lines in eastern Afghanistan. Today, more U.S. bombs raining down on the mountains near Tora Bora, where terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden may still be hiding.

Ben Wedeman now on the scene in that area joins us live now with the latest once again this hour -- Ben, we talked about 60 minutes ago. Bring us up to date with what you have right now.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bill, just a few moments ago we saw a fairly bright flash coming from the mountains. As you can see, it is night now, but nonetheless the bombing does continue. We're also seeing forest fires in the mountains where those al Qaeda positions are believed to be. That just another indication of the intensity of the bombing that has gone on for the last few days.

Now, the bombing has been intense, but apparently at the front lines it's fairly quiet. There's been no incoming fire from the al Qaeda positions. My colleagues Brent Sadler and Nic Robertson were up there. They say they saw the fighters, the mujahideen, collecting firewood from up there and he says there's no signs -- they said there were no signs of prisoners or rather a surrender of al Qaeda members nor are there any preparations to do so.

But they are still up there. The al Qaeda fighters are still entrenched. We've been listening to them on the radio throughout the day. They're very, they sound stressed, I'll tell you. They don't sound like they're having a good time. They're complain -- I've heard them talking about the need for medicine. In one case just after a bomb fell one, I heard over the radio one Qaeda member calling to another to come quickly, they needed urgent medical help.

Also, there was a reference to the sheikh in one of these conversations. I overhead one Qaeda member telling another to change his radio channel to the sheikh's channel. And, of course, the sheikh, some people believe, is a reference to Osama bin Laden.

Otherwise, I also overhead them say, one of them, that they were running low on ammunition, which is another indication that after all this fighting of the last 10 days or so that their supplies are running low -- Bill.

HEMMER: Ben, when we talk about al Qaeda troops, do you have a good idea just yet how many there may still be there? WEDEMAN: No, Bill. Unfortunately the estimations vary widely. In fact, we heard from one senior Pentagon official saying that there could be anywhere between 300 and 1,000. That's quite a range. Certainly there are, there's a considerable number up there. Many of the al Qaeda members from throughout Afghanistan gradually made their way to this area.

Also, we know in this area, from having visited up there, that that was a terrorist training camp. So 300 is probably a low estimate, a thousand a high estimate. But it's somewhere in between, no doubt about it -- Bill.

HEMMER: Got it, Ben.

OK, Ben Wedeman in eastern Afghanistan. Ben, thank you.

The American captured while fighting for the Taliban now out of the country of Afghanistan. U.S. officials say John Walker was transferred to the USS Peleliu yesterday. He will remain there on that ship until it's determined whether military or civilian authorities will handle his case.

Walker was captured during an uprising by Taliban prisoners near Mazir-e Sharif just about a month ago.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: As U.S. forces try to tighten the noose on al Qaeda and close in on Osama bin Laden, let's get some more perspective on the military operation.

Joining us once again this morning from Tucson, Arizona, CNN military analyst and Retired Air Force Major General Don Shepperd.

Good to see you, General.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Before we talk about military operations, quickly just let me ask you about John Walker. Bill just mentioned that he was being taken to the USS Peleliu. Why is he being taken to the ship?

SHEPPERD: Well, basically the idea is for his own safety. This is detention of a federal prisoner is what it amounts to. The military is the mechanism, but he's going to be treated like a federal prisoner.

When he is transported, he will be handcuffed, he'll be fed, he'll be taken care of. He's not being tortured. He will be continually interrogated for information, people talking to him all the time. But he's going to be taken to U.S. territory, which is a United States ship, and be held there. And then he'll be taken to a port at some time and then transported to the United States to meet the justice system just as though he were a drug kingpin or anybody that we get in the justice system throughout the world.

PHILLIPS: All right, back to military operations. We're seeing more special forces in this war in Afghanistan, also beefing up United States presidents around Tora Bora, or presence, rather, around Tora Bora. What are you seeing here?

SHEPPERD: Well, what I'm seeing is bin Laden is in the Tora Bora area. That's the conclusion that I draw from everything that's going on there. And I don't know anything intelligence wise that anybody else doesn't and I think General Franks doesn't know for sure whether he's there. But all indications are from the radio transmissions, from the intelligence, from the news media, from the military action going on, from the way the al Qaeda are fighting in that area, they are clearly not only protecting their own lives, but something else that's very important.

So I suspect he's in that area. We're building up the special forces so, again, we can gain intelligence so we can mark for air strikes and so we can join in the battles. And in the end, the special forces or, perhaps, the Eastern Alliance themselves will go in and get him when they say he's in that cave.

PHILLIPS: So if intelligence says he, indeed, is in one of those caves, let's talk again about escape routes and what is the preparation that's going on right now to prevent that? And what sort of escape routes are we talking about?

SHEPPERD: Well, Pakistan is key. The porous border from Pakistan, which is just to the south of the area that's being bombed there in Tora Bora, you've got a big mountain range and two valleys on each side and into the south you've got the border with Pakistan. And the Pakistan military, a very good military, by the way, is there blocking that escape route.

The other thing is he could have all sorts of other ways -- somebody paid to come in and get him by helicopter. Obviously we would be watching for that. But there's all sorts of ways that he could escape. Now, one thing he would be doing through his escape is leaving his al Qaeda people protecting him, his forces, if you will, on the battlefield to die. So if he escapes in that area, it's probably going to be into Pakistan, although I suppose there's other ways you could do it. But it's going to be a tough way out because there's a lot of people looking for him.

PHILLIPS: Well, and with that in mind, I have to ask you this, as a military person and also knowing the minds of the soldiers that are now protecting the freedom for all of us here in the United States, do you really think Osama bin Laden is going to come out alive?

SHEPPERD: I don't think he's going to come out alive. I think in the end he will probably take his own life. But in the end if a special forces team goes in to get him, it's going to be a young American sergeant that figures out whether he's going to live or die. If he holds up a white flag and tries to surrender, they will accept his surrender as long as they do not feel they are personally in danger or the people around them in danger. And they will capture him if they can. They will follow their orders to try to bring him out alive if at all possible. But it'll be a young American sergeant, despite all the politicians involved, despite the prestige of the United States, the prestige of the United States in the end rests on our young people, as it always does.

PHILLIPS: All right, and those will be the people we will definitely want to be talking to.

General Don Shepperd, thanks so much, sir.

SHEPPERD: A pleasure.

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