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CNN Saturday Morning News

Interview With Ra'anan Gissin

Aired December 15, 2001 - 09:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: New violence flares in the Middle East, and the United States shoots down an anti-Israeli resolution in the U.N.

We get more now on these developments from CNN's Chris Burns. He's live in Jerusalem. Hello again, Chris.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra. That violence centered in the town of Beit Hanun, that's a Palestinian town in the Gaza Strip where Israeli tanks and other security forces moved in as part of their crackdown against attacks that have left dozens of Israelis dead in various terrorist attacks.

That crackdown since Wednesday, and that has continued in air strikes overnight, and this crackdown in the town of Bet Hanun, tanks facing off with protesters. Protesters took to the streets, where people on the ground say thousands of protesters, many of them rock- throwing youths. Some were gunmen exchanging fire with the Israeli forces.

Now, the death toll is now at four, 48 others are wounded, according to Palestinian medical officials. They also say that four among those wounded are in critical condition. So the death toll could rise.

Also, the Israelis say that in that exercise, part of the crackdown against suspected Palestinian militants, they arrested more than -- or at least 10 Palestinians.

Funerals today by the Palestinians, one in the Gaza -- in Gaza and two in the West Bank. In Gaza, it was for a suspected suicide bomber the Israelis say that they shot and killed as he was entering a Jewish settlement in Gaza. Also on the West Bank, two of the eight Palestinians who died, who were shot and killed by the Israelis during other incursions on the West Bank.

This, of course, happening as the U.N. Security Council had tried to reach some kind of resolution on this conflict, the Security Council overnight failed to pass a resolution calling for an end to the violence and also calling for international monitoring.

That was vetoed by the U.S. delegation, that because the U.S. says it doesn't mention anything about the terror attacks against Israel, Israel saying that such a move -- (inaudible) if such a measure were approved, it would take the pressure off of is -- of off Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, who's been pressured by the Americans and the Israelis and the United Nations and the European Union to crack down further on those militants.

The Palestinians come back and say that this crackdown is a form of collective punishment against the Israelis (sic).

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: I just want to ask President Bush one question. What if Texas or any part of the United States were to become under foreign occupation? Would you call upon the American people to surrender to this occupation? For God's sakes, what should have been vetoed last night is the Israeli occupation.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BURNS: In other words, what he's saying is, how do you ask a Palestinian people to sit still after 34 years of Israeli occupation? On the other hand, how do you ask the Israelis to sit still after so many terror attacks that left dozens of people dead?

That is the tough nut to crack that Anthony Zinni, the U.S. mediator, has been trying to solve. He's been unable to, in fact, the violence is worsening. He's spending the weekend in Jordan and in Egypt. His future plans unclear, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, our Chris Burns live in Jerusalem, thank you.

Well, Israel is praising the U.S. veto of a Security Council resolution that called for international monitors to protect Palestinians. Joining us by phone with the Israeli reaction is Dr. Ra'anan Gissin, an adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

Dr. Gissin, hello.

RA'ANAN GISSIN, ADVISER TO ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Good morning to you.

PHILLIPS: Why don't we begin by talking about what exactly you expect from Yasser Arafat at this point?

GISSIN: I think it's not just what we expect, it's what his people should expect from him, it's what the world and international community should demand from him. It's that he put himself on the side of those who fight against terrorism, or else be branded as another Taliban-type regime or a terrorist, that's all.

That's what he was doing for the past 14 months against our people. He launched a campaign of terror when he had an opportunity to reach a compromise solution.

PHILLIPS: Now, chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat was on our air on tape and also live with Bill Hemmer, and he is saying that they are condemning terror, that Sharon is the one that does not want to negotiate, but they are making arrests, that they've made more than 130 arrests of these militants.

GISSIN: I'm sorry to say, you know, Mr. Saeb Erakat, my good friend, is sounding again and again like a broken record. They're making declaration. They had taken no steps against terrorism. As a result of their terrorist activity, since General Zinni (UNINTELLIGIBLE) it was a very important mission, to achieve a cease- fire. We have buried 44 people, and 300 other wounded, from a massive wave of terrorist activity.

And this comes from Yasser Arafat's territory. After September 9 (sic), no one who harbors terrorists, no one who supports them, no one who gives them shelter can be exonerated. And the reason that we are taking the actions today in Gaza and elsewhere is to defend our citizens. We're exercising our right to self-defense, and no thought about historical wrongdoing -- and believe me, I'm quoting President Bush in that -- can justify any kind of terror activity, the kind of which we were subjected for the past 15 months.

PHILLIPS: So how long will you continue to carry out retaliation and those air strikes?

GISSIN: Well -- well...

PHILLIPS: ... I mean, what's it going to take for...

GISSIN: This is not retaliation, this is a sustained effort to try and dismantle the terrorist infrastructure, to bring to the arrest of terrorists, to do exactly what Yasser Arafat pledged he would do but is not doing. The minute the Palestinian Authority will start taking the necessary steps, as required, according to their obligation, to stop terrorism...

PHILLIPS: What's the necessary step...

GISSIN: ... we will...

PHILLIPS: ... what's the necessary step that you will receive right now?

GISSIN: The necessary step has been spelled out by General Zinni. They have to make real arrests, not televised arrests. They have to interrogate, they have to stop, they have to close the Islamic Jihad, Hamas, in their own security forces, who are now participating in terrorism, and that's why we're attacking their targets.

PHILLIPS: So you're see -- you're saying...

GISSIN: Once they do that, we won't be there...

PHILLIPS: And you...

GISSIN: ... we won't be there.

PHILLIPS: You're saying you want to see these Palestinian militants in jail. You want to see pictures, you want to see proof. GISSIN: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, not just pictures. It's not pictures. They know exactly what has to be done. Because if they don't do it today, by the way, these Hamas and Islamic Jihad will be all over them in a couple of months. These are organizations that have nothing to do with peace, that have nothing to do with a compromise solution. All they want is the destruction of Israel. And in the process will also destroy the Palestinian Authority. That's for sure.

PHILLIPS: Doctor...

GISSIN: So they're living -- Arafat is living now on borrowed time. He could decide either he wants to find himself in the garbage can of history with other terrorists which are finding their way there today, or he wants to make history for his people and really lead them on the path to full peace. The options are in his hands. But we will defend our citizens as long as he doesn't do what he was supposed to do. Once he does it, believe me, we will be the first ones to reciprocate, because we're a peace-loving nation.

We want peace. All our -- since the beginning of time, we're a 4,000-year-old nation that always was striving to achieve peace. The Palestinians must understand, they have only one option if they want to live here peacefully in the region in -- with us, they have to recognize Israel's right to exist and stop terrorism. Then, believe me, both nations could have a better future.

PHILLIPS: Dr. Ra'anan Gissin, adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, thank you so much, sir.

GISSIN: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: President Bush is keeping a close eye on the Middle East from the White House.

CNN's Kelly Wallace joins us from the White House with more on that. Kelly, great to see you.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Great to see you too, Kyra.

President Bush definitely keeping a close eye on those tensions in the Middle East, and first to this veto, Kyra, the Bush administration saying the reason it used its veto power at the United Nations is because it does not believe the United Nations is the proper forum to resolve Middle East tensions.

Also, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations saying he believes this resolution would have pushed the Israelis and the Palestinians away from each other in setting -- instead of forcing both sides to exert their own political will and eventually find their way back to security talks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that the Security Council should not take an action that will turn the parties away from the efforts needed to improve an already extremely tense situation. It is with regret that the United States has decided to make use of its veto to block this resolution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Another reason the U.S. would never have supported this resolution is that it did not call for a halt to these suicide bombings and attacks against Israelis. So what the administration is doing now, it is continuing to put the pressure on Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. We heard President Bush say again yesterday very forcefully that he does not believe that Mr. Arafat is doing enough to crack down on suspected terrorists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Chairman Arafat has said that he intends to fight terror, to bring those to justice who are killing, murderers in the Middle East, and now it's his time to perform. The world expects Chairman Arafat to lead, and so do I.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And of course, you have the Israelis saying that they believe Mr. Arafat is irrelevant right now. Well, Kyra, what I'm told is, U.S. officials are conveying behind the scenes to the Israelis that, number one, Mr. Arafat is the elected leader of the Palestinian people, that they will eventually have to deal with them, and number two, that the Israelis have to know there will be repercussions and consequences to their actions, and again, that eventually they're going to have to find a way to get back to security talks with the Palestinians to try to bring an end to all this violence.

As for, Kyra, where the United States goes from here, you know the U.S. envoy to the region, retired Marine Corps general Anthony Zinni, continues to remain in the region. He's talking with Arab allies. But the word is he's likely to return from the region back to Washington soon to give a status report to Secretary of State Colin Powell -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Kelly. Another item on the agenda here, the economic stimulus package. You've got to get an update on that, of course.

WALLACE: Absolutely. That will be the focus of President Bush's radio address, which we'll hear less than an hour from now. Look for the president, Kyra, to try to put more pressure on lawmakers to get a measure that would give a boost to the economy and help laid-off workers pass before they leave on recess.

But there was a real sort of sticking point here over accelerating tax cuts and also health care benefits for the unemployed. The White House is going to release -- we can't tell you the details yet, it's embargoed till 10:00 -- but release a report it says showing the number of people who have lost their jobs over these past couple of months and show the need for this economic stimulus package.

So the White House trying to put as much pressure on lawmakers. It is just not clear if they're going to be able to resolve their differences between the Democrats and the Republicans -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, our Kelly Wallace live from the White House, thanks so much.

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