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CNN Saturday Morning News

U.S. Uses Specialized Weapons to Kill al Qaeda in Caves

Aired December 22, 2001 - 09:19   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Let's go to our CNN military analyst right now, retired Air Force major general Don Shepperd. He joins us again from Tucson, Arizona.

All call -- all kinds of things going on, general, we can talk about.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Indeed.

PHILLIPS: Why don't we start with the BLU-18, this new explosives that was launched in these recent air strikes?

SHEPPERD: Yes, BLU-118, a lot of information, conflicting information, coming out about that. Originally it was talked about as a fuel air explosive. Now we're being told it's not a fuel air explosive but rather works on the principle of a grain silo explosure -- explosion. Again, it goes into a cave, it -- fine particles are ex -- are put into the area, and then it's called a thermobaric blast in which pressure builds up over time, and then is ignited in a delayed fashion.

It sends concussion waves throughout the caves as well as heat, and will kill anyone in those caves without reportedly collapsing the caves, necessarily, so you may be able to go in there and find out who was really in there even after the damage has been done, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And it...

SHEPPERD: So a little bit of conflicting information coming out about it.

PHILLIPS: That's understandable. Well, has it been confirmed that there are active cave complexes right now at this moment? Is that what intel is saying?

SHEPPERD: No. I think the caves obviously exist, and we want to go into the Tora Bora area and find out what we've already killed and what remains in there in the way of people or information, or, of course, of bin Laden or in the case of the Kandahar area, Omar is still there.

Now, I don't know that we have any information that any of them are still active, but we're going to go find out. We're going to find out one by one, and it's our job to find out now, probably with not a lot of help from the remaining opposition forces in the area. It's our job to dig them out.

PHILLIPS: Now, I haven't asked you about this in the past hours. Let's talk about John Walker a little bit, the man fighting for the Taliban, the American, young American man. Are you surprised, the fact that he might face the desk pen -- death penalty?

SHEPPERD: Not surprised at all. This kid, in whatever fashion, is in deep trouble. As you watch his father on TV, you have to feel for any parent, if you're a parent himself, that this kid somehow went awry. Any time you take up arms against your country, whatever your motivation for doing so, you're in trouble. It appears as though John Walker will be subjected to the U.S. civil system as opposed to a military tribunal, because that has been designated for people that are not U.S. citizens.

It would not surprise me at all, charges perhaps up to treason, although treason very difficult to prove, and also some of the terrorist support activities do carry the death penalty. So lots to be played out here, but the kid's in trouble no matter what.

PHILLIPS: Now, I'm just curious, from a personal side of things, general, in your wartime experiences through the years, did you ever come across a John Walker type?

SHEPPERD: No, never have, although if you look through the history books, there have been examples of people that have switched sides, and there have been examples of this. Also, as you know, there are three Australians reportedly detained. There are soldiers of fortune all over the world who do it, some for money, some for the cause, that type of thing. People get disoriented in some fashion and go decide to do this.

And when they do, they're going to be in deep trouble when their nation finds them, as this young man will.

PHILLIPS: No doubt. General Don Shepperd, thanks so much again. We'll see you again in about an hour.

SHEPPERD: Pleasure.

PHILLIPS: All right, sir.

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