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CNN Saturday Morning News

Kabul, Washington Reports of Convoy Attack in Afghanistan Differ

Aired December 22, 2001 - 11:06   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Another topic coming out of Afghanistan now, conflicting reports about a U.S. air strike on a convoy near Tora Bora in eastern Afghanistan.

Dozens of people were reportedly killed; however, their identity is in dispute. CNN's Jonathan Aiken joins us once again from the Pentagon with an update on this -- John.

JONATHAN AIKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Leon, all morning, in fact since yesterday when this convoy was first attacked and we got word of it during the Pentagon briefing, the Pentagon and the U.S. Central Command said that this convoy was a legitimate target.

Some more information is coming out this morning, but first let's recap for viewers what we're talking about. We have a map to show you specifically where we're heading.

In Afghanistan, you can see up by Tora Bora, the kind of crust. This is where it all began, according to the Central Command. A convoy was spotted by U.S. reconnaissance, leaving what is being called a command and control center.

And, it left that command and control center not long before it was attacked by fighter aircraft, dispatching the aircraft carrier Stennis in the Arabian Sea. Also used were heavily armored gun ships designed to concentrate their machine gun fire on specific target locations.

Now the central command tells us that there was a sizable number of vehicles destroyed, an unknown number of people killed. We were told a lot. The Associated Press is reporting there could be up to 60 people dead in this attack.

Command tells us too that, and this is new information, that after the United States fighter jets fired on this convoy, there was return fire from the convoy in the form of at least two shoulder- launched missiles. Neither hit their targets. All U.S. planes safely returned to the Stennis.

Now intelligence indicated that there was either Taliban or al Qaeda leadership in this group of people, and about a dozen or so vehicles. Some local officials have said that this convoy was heading to Kabul. It was filled with local tribal leaders heading to the inauguration of the new government.

Pentagon officials have been standing by their story, although they aren't going into too many details.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. PETER PACE, VICE CHAIRMAN JOINT CHIEFS: I'd like not to address the specific indicators that caused us to strike that particular convoy. But the intelligence that we gathered at the time indicated to us that this was, in fact, leadership and we struck the leadership and we will -- as we will do the next time we get that kind of intelligence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AIKEN: That was General Peter Pace from the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In yesterday's briefing, Friday's briefing, just a few minutes ago the U.S. Central Command in Tampa told us that in the past 24 hours or so, more intelligence has come in to the United States.

In the words of the official we spoke with, "validates the legitimacy of this convoy as a target." Again, not much, Leon, in the way of details.

Some other new information for you, a suspected al Qaeda leader now in the hands of U.S. Marines at the air base at Kandahar Airport, that just outside the city some 16 detainees are at that facility now, along with eight detainees on board the assault ship, the USS Peleliu in the Arabian Sea. So this brings to 24 now, the number of detainees in U.S. custody.

We're also getting word too that possibly some time this weekend, there may be an infusion of ground troops, U.S. ground troops into the Tora Bora area, and perhaps some elements of the U.S. Marines, maybe the 10th Mountain Division of the U.S. Army.

They have some people stationed up in Uzbekistan. Both these groups familiar with mountain work there. Their job will be heading into the caves and tunnel complexes at Tora Bora that were hit by U.S. aircraft and overrun by opposition forces, and they're going to do a cave-by-cave search to see, not only what is left of those caves, but also to see if there's anybody living or dead in them, and that would include Osama bin Laden.

To aid in that effort, a new weapon is being rushed into production and sent over to Afghanistan. It is a new kind of cluster, bunker buster. It is called a thermobaric weapon.

It's a high temperature weapon that creates a tremendous amount of air pressure, and in that explosion there's more heat and more flame that more effectively destroys underground complexes and anything that's in the U.S. arsenal.

There are only 10 of them available now in the United States and they're all being brought over to Afghanistan to be used in this effort. Leon. HARRIS: John, quickly, the Marines -- you say more are coming in to start their aid in this cave-by-cave search process. What does this say about the state of that search process, and about how long this is going to go on, as we continue to look for perhaps an endgame here.

Does it appear now that perhaps this is going to go on for a lot longer than we had imagined?

AIKEN: Well yes, and the imagination has been mostly on our part. The Pentagon has always said that they're not putting a time frame on how long this will take, and this is going to be a long time in coming, this search.

What has been going on, ever since the opposition forces have made their way up into Tora Bora with the help of U.S. Special Forces troops, they've been heading into those caves, systematically checking them out.

There are a lot more caves to be checked out than U.S. officials had first thought. And, what the Pentagon has done, is apparently in the same way that a MASH unit would triage injured victims out in the field, they've come up with a priority list of caves and tunnels they want to check out first.

Once those top priority tunnel systems are checked out, other caves will be explored. But you're right, Leon, this could be a systematic search and indeed a long one.

HARRIS: Jonathan Aiken at the Pentagon, thank you very much.

AIKEN: Thank you.

HARRIS: Kyra.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well let's go to our CNN Military Analyst for an update on all the happenings going on, retired Air Force Major General Don Shepherd has been joining us all morning. He's live again in Tucson, Arizona. Hi, General.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's go back to Amanda Kibel's report just a moment ago. She's traveling with the former core commander of Jalalabad, and she's talking about the Taliban handing over the weapons, the soldiers handing over their weapons.

How do you secure a roundup like this? How do you know that it's not going to be, have an adverse effect?

SHEPPERD: Well you're going to have to be very, very careful about this, Kyra. When you capture weapons, if you disperse those weapons to other people that you think are on your side, those people in the Eastern Alliance can change sides again. That's been the habit in Afghanistan. So you have to be very, very careful. Many of these weapons will be destroyed or put in storage locations and then as the military emerges under the new government, then hand it back out as weapons for a new military under a friendly regime that's dedicated to the preservation of Afghanistan, as opposed to destruction.

But it's always dicey business trying to decide what to do and who to do it with.

PHILLIPS: Another story, of course you're reporting on today, the air strike in eastern Afghanistan off the John Stennis, and the controversy over the type of convoy that was struck.

From an aviator's perspective, a military perspective, will you tell us how the military goes about gaining this intelligence and confirming its target, because I know they don't drop these bombs unless they're darn sure that it's what they're looking for.

SHEPPERD: Yes, let me put it together for you, Kyra, without revealing anything. First of all, we have an emerging situation on the ground here. The Taliban and the al Qaeda have reportedly fled from Tora Bora, and now you have emerging targets.

Now we're watching those targets from the ground, with things such as Special Operations, Special Forces, and CIA. We're also watching from the sky, with Predators, C-130 gun ships, fighters, rivet-joined JSTARs, U-2s and satellites.

As these are identified, they are subjected to intelligence analysis and they use fusion engines if you will, computer engines to decide whether these are real targets or not.

And then when this information is collated, it's given to a targeting system that basically has levels of approval. Down at the low level, you have through the rules of engagement, the ability to attack certain targets; for instance, those that are immediately threatening you, and then other vehicles and that type of thing.

But the targeting process will give approval to strike a convoy such as this. Remember early in the war, reportedly the CIA from one of its Predators had Mullah Omar in its sights and the process was too slow. So it's a very deliberate process.

Hopefully, they made the right decision. Hopefully, it wasn't someone that Mullah - people en route to the Kabul ceremonies. Hopefully it was al Qaeda or Taliban leadership and the Pentagon says it was, so we'll have to wait and see.

KYRA: All right, another question before we let you go, General. The cave process, the troops on the ground going inside these caves. Once they get inside the cave complexes, what's the process?

SHEPPERD: As dangerous as it gets. If you watch on TV people breaking down doors and enter rooms and clearing the rooms of drug addicts and that type of thing, that's about what goes on underground. Now in many cases, you will throw in concussion devices for people that are in there, giving them opportunity to surrender and come out. But in the end, you'll go in with night vision devices. They may be booby trapped. There may be mines on the floor.

You will be in a shooting mode, if you will, and it's very, very dangerous work. Think of clearing an inner city in the dark underground. That's what it's about, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Wow, what an analogy. Retired Air Force Major General Don Shepperd, thank you so much sir.

SHEPPERD: Pleasure.

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