Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Saturday Morning News

U.S. Searches Caves in Tora Bora

Aired January 05, 2002 - 07:08   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. forces are now searching the caves that they bombed for days on end at Tora Bora. So far, they have searched seven of the eight major cave complexes there, and here's what they found.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. TOMMY FRANKS, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: We have found, as we have gotten into these complexes, is evidence of considerable loss of life, obviously, in there. We have found intelligence information that indicates that al Qaeda was in fact using that very heavily in that area. We have found larger weapons, in some cases we have found, I think, one or two tanks in some of these cave adits. We have found large quantities of ammunition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Franks says the last cave for U.S. soldiers to search is very high in the mountains, and he said there is no rush to conduct that operation.

Finding tanks in a hidden cave, heavy al Qaeda casualties, and the first American soldier to die from enemy fire in Afghanistan -- plenty to go over this morning with CNN military analyst Major General Don Shepperd. And let's get right to it.

Good morning to you, general.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Morning, Martin.

SAVIDGE: What do we know about the circumstances of the death of this Green Beret?

SHEPPERD: Well, what we know is, this Green Beret died doing what Green Berets do, out in front of everybody in enemy territory, liaison with the enemy. He was ambushed, reportedly. We don't know exactly the circumstances yet. They haven't been reported, whether this was indeed just a random ambush that he got caught in, or whether it was a setup. But this is the type of thing these young kids do all the time.

Now, they operate in small teams, although we don't know how many was in this team. Sometimes they operate as individuals out there. But they're out in front of everybody, gaining intelligence, making liaisons, trying to find out where targets are and doing what we ask them to do. Amazing people.

SAVIDGE: They certainly are. There was a CIA officer that was also wounded. They were extricated. Why is it that the force that got them out wasn't there to protect them in the first place?

SHEPPERD: Yes, the reason we don't do that is, of course, it would compromise where they are and who they are. In all these cases, we don't just throw people out in the middle of enemy soldiers with no support. They have radio contact, they have cellular phone contact, that type of thing, so they can call a quick reaction force. But the quick reaction force is designed to get in and give them support and then get them out. But it doesn't mean that they won't be killed in an ambush-type thing. It's just plain dangerous work, and we got people that do it. That's what this kid was doing.

SAVIDGE: And this -- is this likely to change the methods of how they conduct business now as a result of this?

SHEPPERD: No. This is exactly what the special forces are designed for, again, to go in and make a liaison. By the way, all over the world these things are going on as we speak. And many of the other countries that we're interested in, special forces people are there now, doing exactly the same thing. It's just in the combat that this one got caught in, that this gentleman got caught in down in the Khowst area, again, a tragic, tragic situation.

SAVIDGE: You heard Bill Hemmer talking about a number of significant detainees now, one of them being the former ambassador to Pakistan, and another being the head of the training camps for the Taliban, or the al Qaeda. How significant are these arrests, and what information might they glean?

SHEPPERD: Very significant, the arrests. We've got a top 20 list, and right now, reportedly, we've got three of the top 20 under -- apprehended by us, let's put it that way. Former ambassador Zaeef to Pakistan is under our care, also Ibn Al-Shaykh al-Libi, the head of the training camps, and then former general Mullah Fasel Masoom (ph), the head of the Taliban army.

These people have significant information on the operating areas, on bin Laden himself, on the al Qaeda, on where they came from. They have key information that we want, and we'll be extracting that information to go not only in Afghanistan but in other places to follow these people to the source of the problems.

SAVIDGE: You might have heard Jonathan Aiken reporting from the Pentagon that there are observation flights apparently going on over Yemen and Somalia. What are we to make of those?

SHEPPERD: Basically, increasing our surveillance everywhere across the world. We're hearing about Somalia and Yemen. There's things going on in other places as well. What they're doing is, they're listening, they are taking pictures, and they're comparing levels of activity with known areas that is normally gathered by human intelligence on the ground.

So again, we're establishing these liaisons that we may need later. In some of these areas, you'll see forces inserted likely in military action. In others, you'll never see it. People will just disappear, organizations will disappear, funds will be cut off. But people are in action, and the P-3s from the Navy, in this case, are part of it.

SAVIDGE: And is it that we believe that something is being planned there, or is this a place perhaps that some of the al Qaeda network may be fleeing to?

SHEPPERD: This is both. First of all, they are well-known places where al Qaeda have trained and gathered in the past, so we've got information on that. They also will likely be fleeing back there as they get out of Afghanistan. Many of them cannot go to their home countries. And so it's a likely place where they would gather. And again, we're tightening the net not only in Yemen and in Somalia, but Sudan, many other places around the world.

SAVIDGE: And aside from bombs and bullets, are there other weapons that can be brought to bear to fight there?

SHEPPERD: There are other weapons. Again, one of the best weapons is to have the people in these countries do it themselves, get the people, put them in jail, put them out of commission. And we do a lot of that with money as well as bombs from military forces. In fact, military often is the last resort. The ideal would be to have the countries have their own police forces, their own intelligence services, get these people and either hand them over to us or put them in jail in those countries.

SAVIDGE: But does a country, say, like Somalia have a police force or have the authorities in place to take care of the job for us?

SHEPPERD: No, they do not, that's the problem in Somalia, and that's why it makes it such a haven. There is no organized government in Somalia. It's a lawless land of clans and tribes. And so we -- again, we try to establish liaison with people on the ground there. We try to get inside their cells, we try to get them to do things for us. And it's a murky, nasty business. This is what spies, the CIA, special forces, people like that do all over the world, never seen, never heard, never heralded by any of us. Dangerous work.

SAVIDGE: It is, it's already been proven. Thank you very much, General Shepperd, we'll talk to you again later.

SHEPPERD: Pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com