Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Saturday Morning News

Reporter's Notebook: The Olympic Games

Aired February 23, 2002 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We have operators standing by to take your questions and we'll pass them along and put you on the box, talking to our friends Carol Lin, leading our coverage out there in Salt Lake City, looking marvelous in a parka, as always, CNNSI's Phil Jones in Park City, Utah -- I'll let you decide how he looks -- and Susan Casey with "Sports Illustrated Women."

I don't know...

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: I know what you said about her.

O'BRIEN: I don't know what's -- Susan well enough to comment on that either. She's in New York.

Thanks to all of you for being with us this morning.

We have some good e-mails, let's get right to them. This is a pair I want to bring you, and we can sort of bat this around. Jim Coddington has this, "Why is it that we Americans are always the fall guys? I don't care who does something, it always comes back to us. If the Russians want to go home, let them. Just don't let the door hit them on the way out." That's from Jim.

And then sort of...

PHILLIPS: Ooh.

O'BRIEN: Yes, yes, it's kind of grim. Not in the spirit of the Olympic movement, you might say. Kevin Porter in Capital Heights, Maryland, has this. "I feel the protests by the Russian Federation on behalf of Irina Slutskaya is purely biased. If they objectively compare her performance to Sarah Hughes, they should be able to see the difference between silver and gold."

All right, Carol, take it away. Let's comment on this whole -- it's like the cold war all over again, isn't it?

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, yes, and that's exactly what the Russians have been saying. And I can understand why these Americans are e-mailing in this manner, because it does seem like sour grapes. But when you speak to the Russians, the Russian Sports Federation actually was wandering around on our rooftop here yesterday trying to get their point of view across, when you hear what they're saying, you can understand how they feel. I mean, they feel like they've come here to participate in these games, and they're under attack. You know, they were telling me about how they were watching Jay Leno the other night and how Jay Leno was making fun of Irina Slutskaya's name, as you can imagine where you can take that. They were talking about how every time they flip the channels in the free media world here, that the Russians are being criticized, Oh, it's the Soviet -- former Soviet bloc of judges that penalized the Canadian skaters. Oh, it's the Russians who are now complaining about this, that, or the other.

So they're very sensitive, and I think what they were trying to do yesterday by filing this complaint for that second gold was simply to make a point, and which was, Quit it, you know, we're here to participate, and we feel that we're becoming target practice just because the Americans are feeling a little sensitive while being on the world stage.

PHILLIPS: Well, Laura in Boston has a question, talking about the Russians, Laura in Boston has called in, has a question. Go ahead, Laura.

CALLER: Hello.

PHILLIPS: Can you hear us OK, Laura?

CALLER: Yes, I can hear you now.

PHILLIPS: Oh, I'm sorry, I got the wrong person. Who is this?

CALLER: This is Edward Smith.

PHILLIPS: Edward, OK, Edward, what is your question? We'll direct it to the right person.

CALLER: I was -- my question is why, in the middle of Black History Month, the media, especially the D.C. and Baltimore media, fail to recognize Ms. Flowers and her accomplishment in winning the gold medal in the bobsled? It just really hurts the black people at this time that the media just ignored that accomplishment.

PHILLIPS: Actually, I remember giving -- we reported on that heavily, Edward, yes. And maybe Phil, do you want to talk about that?

O'BRIEN: Let's see what these folks who've been out there have been saying. I feel like that was reported on. But, you know, this is a very subjective thing. Phil?

PHILLIPS: Sure, sure.

PHIL JONES, CNN/SPORTS ILLUSTRATED: I think it was heavily reported on. We certainly covered it on CNN, CNN International, Headline News. It was a big story. The caller there mentioned it was in a certain area. Maybe, maybe the local press didn't pick up on that story as he would have liked.

But certainly as for national exposure, she's had plenty. I saw her on the rival networks, the "Today" show, for example, and on the Medal Plaza, she was crying her eyes out the other night. That was one of the most poignant pictures of this games so far. She was delighted to be the first African-American to win a gold medal, and she did get the publicity, I believe, and will continue to do so.

O'BRIEN: Edward, perhaps you should change your media outlet. Who knows? Let's go to an e-mail from Jeremy Bryson. "After Sarah Hughes skated, the Russians skated and scored higher than Sarah, and then Michelle Kwan, who skated better than the Russian, tied with the Russian, or so it seems. Sarah Hughes won. I was glad the person who had performed best won the gold, but I don't understand."

Susan Casey, you want to get -- take us into the arcane world of judging figure skating, if you will.

SUSAN CASEY, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED WOMEN": Arcane is certainly the right word, and I'm afraid that I know more now about the mathematical intricacies of figure skating then I ever thought I would.

O'BRIEN: Don't you wish you'd studied math a little harder in college? You know...

CASEY: Oh, you -- I don't -- it would have been back in grade two, because you're talking about ordinals, and numbers from one to six, and in fact, the competition between Michelle, Irina, and Sarah Hughes was incredibly difficult to explain. Because of Sarah Hughes' fourth-place performance in the short program, it required not only that she beat Irina -- or -- sorry, that she beat Michelle in the long program, but that Irina beat Michelle.

So the whole scoring thing in this particular instance is -- would need a blackboard to sort out. But it was the exact same margin as the pairs skating. It was one single judge whose vote pro or con for Irina Slutskaya would have made all the difference for Sarah Hughes.

And I think that's the reason behind the Russian protest. It's a sort of a tit-for-tat protest, you know, here you have the subjective marks working in the Americans' favor, and you're very happy about that, and when they work in the Russians' favor, you're not, you're hollering, so...

O'BRIEN: Ah, yes, it depends on whose ox is being gored, doesn't it?

CASEY: Right.

O'BRIEN: All right. Kyra Phillips, take it away.

PHILLIPS: Hey, we found Laura in Boston. She's on the line. Laura, what's your question?

CALLER: Hi. My question is, the Russian Federation, do they have a legitimate gripe here, or is it just sour grapes? Because usually it's such a powerhouse when it comes to racking up the medals in the Olympics, and this year they're not. PHILLIPS: That's sort of a free-for-all. Carol, I see you nodding your head. What do you think?

O'BRIEN: I think Carol...

PHILLIPS: No, I think we did lose our feed there.

O'BRIEN: Have we lost Carol?

PHILLIPS: Phil, can you hear us all right, Phil?

JONES: Yes, yes, I can hear you OK.

LIN: Yes, yes, it's coming in and out.

PHILLIPS: OK, Phil, go ahead...

LIN: It's coming in and out.

PHILLIPS: Why don't you answer that one, Phil?

JONES: Well, yes, I think there are lots of bits of wine going to be drunk this weekend, because there are so many sour grapes throwing around here and being trampled on by the Russians. No gripe. After the figure skating controversy, where the pairs was concerned, I could understand their gripe there, because that gold medal for Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze was somewhat tarnished. I think they had a point, and there was talk of collusion between the French judge and the Russians.

And I don't think there was ever any great evidence that the Russians were involved. After that, they complained about the aerials judging, no case to answer as far as I could see on that score. They complained about the refereeing in the hockey quarter final against the Czech Republic. Yes, they were penalized a lot in that game, but they won it, 1-0, they got through to the semifinals.

They complained against the USA, they said that the refereeing again was unfair. But, you know, in the first two periods, they were out short 30 to 11. Now there's talk of the Russian team pulling out. I thought they already had in those first two periods of that game, to be honest. The team didn't show up. They did in the third period. But I really don't think they've had a case to answer after that first pairs figure skating.

And it is -- it does smack of sour grapes to me.

PHILLIPS: Susan, are they just crying wolf?

CASEY: Well, I think that we have to look at the unintended consequences of what happened when they suddenly decided to give out four gold medals in the pairs skating. And at the time, everybody was very happy, thinking, well, justice has been done.

But I think that, in a sense, it was damage control, and it was done very quickly, and perhaps the feelings of the North American audience were considered more than the feelings of the Russian audience, and perhaps that decision...

O'BRIEN: All right. I take that point, Susan, but I just want to point out, it seems to be forgotten here that in the case of the Canadian pairs skaters, there was a judge who admitted wrongdoing.

CASEY: I still...

O'BRIEN: And that is a big difference, isn't it?

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: But does that mean you're (UNINTELLIGIBLE) all the judges...

O'BRIEN: Doesn't that change it?

PHILLIPS: ... though, should...

(CROSSTALK)

CASEY: ... well, I don't know that it was the right or wrong thing to do. I do think they did it awfully quickly. And to this day, I don't think it's been clearly explained exactly who did what and why. And I think that we are owed that explanation.

However, I think also we're going to see disputes over judged events all the time in the future as a result of this.

O'BRIEN: Carol, are you with us now, I hope? We got those Dixie cups fixed up and the string all together? All right.

LIN: Yes, the wires are together now.

O'BRIEN: Good.

LIN: Hey, listen, everybody said after the second gold medal was awarded to the Canadians that this set a precarious precedent in terms of judging. In terms of the Russian complaint, yes, the big difference between giving the gold -- the second gold medal to the Canadians in the pairs skating competition is that there was concrete evidence, a judge came forward and said that she had been manipulated, that she had been influenced.

We don't know what happened there. But the fact of the matter, a judge has come forward and made those statements to eyewitnesses. There was no such controversy within the judging, no judge, no misrepresentation, no signs of influence in the women's figure skating competition.

But everybody, including the Russians, has gone back to that pairs skating competition and said, Aha, you did it before, you can do it again. It is at your discretion.

O'BRIEN: All right.

LIN: And that's where the Russians are standing. O'BRIEN: All right...

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... good work -- Go ahead, Phil.

JONES: I was just going to say, if I could add a point on this, one thing that's been overlooked, I think, in all of this is that there was a 10th judge on the panel that also voted. Only nine judges count. But there was a judge from the Czech Republic who, in the case of somebody being found guilty of misconduct on that judging panel, their marks are then included. That particular judge voted in favor of the Canadian pair.

So if they'd actually -- the ISU, the International Skating Union, had gone by the letter of the law, those judges' marks should have been included, and then the gold medal would have gone to Canada, Russia would have got the silver. So, you know, that's another way of looking at it.

O'BRIEN: All right.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: ... more twisted.

O'BRIEN: Here, we got another e-mail here. This comes from Larry. "I found the replay" -- this is another controversy -- "I found the replay of the speed skating where the South Korean was disqualified inconclusive. It appeared our skater," referring to Apolo Ohno, "did more acting, like a basketball player faking a foul. Are the Koreans still pressing forward with the complaint?"

Carol?

LIN: Yes, the Koreans are pressing forward. They're not going to boycott the remainder of the games, but they are going to go to a court of arbitration, which is like an emergency court here at the Winter Olympics. That court has the power to make some sort of decision, which is supposed to be binding within 24 hours.

But we don't really know if that's going to actually happen, because the closing ceremonies are tomorrow.

In terms of that dramatic act that the e-mailer is talking about, I believe he's talking about when Ohno threw up his arms, as we've shown in the photographs. And from what I understand is, Phil can better answer this, that is standard procedure. Isn't that right, Phil? I mean, wasn't that a normal thing for Apollo Ohio to do if he felt like there was cross-tracking or leaning that prevented him from crossing?

JONES: Yes, Carol, there's -- he was a little bit theatrical, but when the replay was shown -- you know, initially I thought it was harsh. I thought the South Korean was dealt with harshly in that race initially. When I saw the replay, he definitely cut across Apollo Ohno's line. You're not allowed to do that on the straightaway, on that back straight.

So the referee there, who was an Australian, by the way, decided that it was an illegal move by Kim Dong Sung, and that he should be disqualified and Ohno should get the gold medal.

Yes, he was a little bit theatrical, he sold it somewhat. But there was an infringement.

But when you saw the race before that, where they all fell at the line in the 1,000 meters, and the Australian came through from the back to take the gold medal, there was so much, you know, argy-bargy, as we call it in Britain, that it struck me as a little bit odd that in this race, this little nudge, or the guy from Korea cutting across Ohno was penalized so heavily, and there was, you know, all kinds of mayhem in that previous race.

O'BRIEN: Phil, Phil, argy-bargy? How do you spell that?

JONES: A-R-G-Y...

O'BRIEN: I think -- I think...

JONES: ... B-A-R-G-Y.

O'BRIEN: Argy-bargy.

PHILLIPS: He just repeated the same letters.

JONES: There you go.

O'BRIEN: Argy-bargy. All right...

JONES: You can use that, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Can I use that? Is that all right?

JONES: Yes, go for it.

O'BRIEN: All right, thank you. All right, go ahead.

PHILLIPS: We have a phone call, Denita in Alabama...

O'BRIEN: I like that, argy-bargy.

PHILLIPS: ... what's your question, Denita?

CALLER: I was wondering, I see the Canadians and the Russians last night in their exhibition, and I was wondering, they're getting along fantastically there. Is it just for show, or is it something that we're seeing on TV and then boom, they don't talk to each other afterwards?

PHILLIPS: Susan, what do you think?

CASEY: I think that they've all had media training. However, I also think that if Phil is right and the reserve judge's marks came out for the Canadians and the Russians know that, it's probably in their best interests to play along.

O'BRIEN: All right, maybe they weren't feeling to argy-bargy.

Let's do an e-mail, because I invited some e-mails on the old NBC coverage, and...

PHILLIPS: This is in support of you, Carol.

O'BRIEN: All right, just a couple quickies here. "Yesterday I was watching USA versus Russia in the ice hockey. I live in Toronto. The game was televised on several channels, CBC, TSN, and NBC. What I found most annoying was that NBC ran commercials as the game was being played. At least when CBC" -- the Canadian feed -- "showed the Canadian game, it was commercial-free during the game." That from Nigel.

And then this one, "I was very angry that NBC put a commercial prior to the medals ceremony for the two female gold medalists," calls them "idiots," that's Kathleen Markel's term.

And finally, this point which you hit on earlier, "I think Jay Leno -- and the term they used, folks, is "sucks," this is Eric Jennings' words -- "for poking fun at Irina Slutskaya. He is a tasteless fatso who owes that young lady a public apology. Irina Slutskaya is a class act that deserves more respect than that."

All right, take that all in sum, and all three of you, let's talk about NBC's coverage of the games. Carol, you first.

LIN: NBC's coverage of the games, well, that's it, I mean, we don't have any access. We've ended up producing pieces and talking about things that we can't show you, which is a great challenge for a broadcast journalist. But, you know, the fact of the matter is, it's a commercial enterprise. We talked about this last week, Miles. The CBC is owned and run by the government. NBC News is owned and run by General Electric, and they're here to make money.

So how much money did they make with that commercial break before the medals ceremony? You know, I mean...

O'BRIEN: All right, Carol, I got to jump in here, you...

LIN: ... free enterprise.

O'BRIEN: ... I got to jump in real quick because after we did that, I got a call from a high-level CBC guy, actually an e-mail, and they do get a government subsidy, but they do -- their programming has to hold its own weight fiscally, if you will. I just want to set the record straight so I don't hear from him again.

Go ahead, Carol.

LIN: But the point being that their mission statement at the CBC is not a commercial one per se.

O'BRIEN: Exactly, yes. LIN: I mean, you know, NBC is here to make jillions of dollars. They paid close to half a billion dollars for the rights to broadcast this game. And what maybe a lot of people don't know is though we look at this as a news event, this was sold as a sporting event in the same way that the Academy Awards broadcast is sold as an entertainment event.

So we as journalists do not have access unless it becomes truly a news event, which would be the equivalent of the Olympic Park bombing during the Olympics in '96 in Atlanta.

O'BRIEN: And we don't want that to happen, of course.

LIN: So we're...

O'BRIEN: All right.

LIN: And we don't want that to happen.

O'BRIEN: All right.

LIN: But that's the distinction here. They have the right to sell that time.

O'BRIEN: Phil?

JONES: I'm so frustrated by NBC's coverage. I think they do a wonderful job, it's very slick. They have some great anchors, great reporters. But I come from a BBC background, where, again, it's government run, no commercials, and they show sport live. That's what sport's all about. I follow sport...

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much.

JONES: ... all the time...

O'BRIEN: Boy.

JONES: ... and we like to see sporting events live. There's nothing...

O'BRIEN: Live is good, yes.

JONES: Live is the best.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

JONES: And what frustrates me about NBC is that they don't give us the option. You know, why not, in the morning, when the Alpine events are taking place, show those events live, let people who want to see it live tune in then, and then do their slick, glossy packages later in the day in the evening for the prime time audience? They're still going to get millions of people tuning into that. You know, they're assuming that everybody's going to tune in to the evening.

That doesn't work that way. There are people who are going to be off during the day who want to see it, there are going to be people who are working at night who don't see it.

They could show live events, package it with the slick reporter they do in between their ads live (ph) takes, if you like, and it would be a better package all around, and they'd be pleasing many, many more people, me included.

PHILLIPS: All right, we got to take...

O'BRIEN: All right, Susan -- no, no, let's get Susan in here on this round a roll (ph) on NBC, let's keep it going here.

CASEY: I would love to see more, just more of everything, more action, more live things, more wrap-ups, and certainly more explanation of how some of these sports are judged, how -- what is important. Sometimes there's commentary that's -- it's good, but there's other time there's commentary that's pretty inane.

And really, what could be done better is to explain the rules of some of the sports that people aren't as familiar with, like short- track speed skating or even things like moguls or aerials, where you really only get to see them televised nationally about once a year. I mean, or once every four years.

O'BRIEN: Instead, we hear about the root canal they had when they were 6 years old.

CASEY: Exactly.

O'BRIEN: And how they recovered from that.

JONES: Miles...

O'BRIEN: All right...

JONES: Miles, can I tell you another thing here?

PHILLIPS: Phil, we're going to ask you guys to hold on...

O'BRIEN: We got to...

PHILLIPS: ... we got to take a quick break.

JONES: OK.

PHILLIPS: We got to -- because we have commercials to run. We'll be right back, we'll continue this discussion.

O'BRIEN: Phil first, though.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Time for all kinds of important things here on "Reporter's Notebook"...

O'BRIEN: Well...

PHILLIPS: ... bashing NBC...

O'BRIEN: Well, and...

PHILLIPS: ... for about the last 20 minutes. I can see the writeups...

O'BRIEN: And to that end...

PHILLIPS: ... right now.

O'BRIEN: ... to that end, let's go to Phil Jones. He has another little barb he wants to hurl, he wants to argy-bargy in here and get in on NBC's case.

JONES: Yes, bit more argy-bargy. I was just going to make the point that for the next decade, you know, this is something, if you're living in the States, get used to it, basically, having very little live coverage from the Olympic Games, because these games are in the States. We can get some live prime time coverage. The next few games, Athens, Turin, Beijing, forget about it. Packaged material all the way for NBC, unless they have a radical, radical rethink, which I doubt.

PHILLIPS: All right, we're going to take a totally different turn here. We're going to talk about curling, you guys. We got a question from Gary in South Carolina. Go ahead, Gary.

O'BRIEN: That's a curling hotbed, South Carolina.

CALLER: I haven't heard anybody explain how the scoring system works and whether each person has to take a turn at throwing the stone.

O'BRIEN: I know Phil Jones knows this.

LIN: That's a laugh.

CALLER: Anybody?

PHILLIPS: Phil actually...

CALLER: Does anybody have a...

PHILLIPS: ... used to be a pro curler.

CALLER: Does anybody have a...

(CROSSTALK)

CALLER: ... technical knowledge, rather than political insights?

JONES: I wish. You know Britain won a gold medal in curling. That's our only gold medal of these games, and it was our first since '84, when Torbelin Dean (ph) won.

I know it's a big sport in Scotland, but I'm from England, so I'll have to...

O'BRIEN: Ah.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Susan...

JONES: ... all I, all I know...

PHILLIPS: Susan...

JONES: ... is that they do, they do, they do take turns, and there is a skip who is the key member of the team, if you like, who predominantly plays the crucial final telling shots, the last stone, as happened with Rhonda Martin for the British team when they won the gold in the women's event the other day.

PHILLIPS: Susan or Carol, you want to add to that about the scoring, our caller Gary?

LIN: I'm working on learning the scoring...

CASEY: I'll...

LIN: ... for curling.

PHILLIPS: Gary, you got a great question, you brought up a very good point. We're going to pursue this.

CALLER: Nobody seems to tell about it...

CASEY: I know that the stone...

CALLER: ... while they're doing it...

CASEY: It's true, he's quite right.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... Susan's point, that was Susan's point, that it...

CASEY: We need to understand this.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... it's never (UNINTELLIGIBLE) yes.

All right, one final e-mail, Sherilyn Beaumont, and this is kind of -- sums up the whole thing, in my mind. "What does the amateur/professional status have to be of the athletes? I thought an athlete could not receive compensation for their sport, and yet the hockey team is professional, as the basketball and baseball teams have been." Is it just silly to even call this an amateur event any more? And we'll just -- we'll go -- start with Carol and move it down the line, see if we have time. LIN: Well, mine, Miles, would only be a personal opinion. Yes, it is silly to call it an amateur sport. I mean, it is professionalized in every sense of the word. Michelle Kwan here, performing as a so-called amateur, gets some $2 million in endorsements every year.

O'BRIEN: Geez.

LIN: This young woman is not an amateur in that sense. She has every privilege of a professional athlete.

O'BRIEN: All right, Phil?

JONES: Each federation's different. I know that the International Skating Union has different rules, say, from the hockey guys. So it really just depends, and they'll make rules according to their own governing body. You know, you've got people alongside Michelle Kwan making her $2 million like Derek Power in speed skating, who is working at Home Depot to subsidize his training. The same with Tristan Gale (ph), who won gold in the women's luge. She works at the Home Depot here as well.

It's very different across the board. I just know that...

O'BRIEN: All right.

JONES: ... when the sports moved on so much over the years that it was foolish to ever think that the Olympics wouldn't become professional. It is professional.

O'BRIEN: All right, we're almost out of time. Susan, you get the last word, very quickly, please.

CASEY: Yes, clearly at this point, and I think the basketball and hockey pros that came into the Olympics really kicked that door open. It is not a bastion of amateur sport any longer.

O'BRIEN: Excellent work, all three of you.

PHILLIPS: Susan Casey, "Sports Illustrated Women," Phil Jones in Park City, Utah, and CNN's Carol Lin in Salt Lake. Thanks, you guys.

O'BRIEN: Carol Lin is just champing at the bit. She's going skiing today.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

O'BRIEN: For research purposes.

LIN: You bet.

O'BRIEN: Have a great day.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com