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CNN Saturday Morning News

Interview With Judy Mueller, Ann Crittenden

Aired March 02, 2002 - 07:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The role of women has been changing over the years. They are still the primary caregivers of children and the elderly, but many women are also holding down demanding jobs. How can they juggle family and career? Well, a conference is under way today in Washington that explores that issue.

Joining me from Washington to talk about it is Judy Mueller, executive director of The Women's Center, and Ann Crittenden, author of "The Price of Motherhood" -- good to see you both. Judy, let's talk...

ANN CRITTENDEN, AUTHOR, "THE PRICE OF MOTHERHOOD": Thank you.

JUDY MUELLER, THE WOMEN'S CENTER: Glad to be here.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk to you first, Judy, and talk about you started this conference. What initiated the idea? Why did you get it going?

MUELLER: The concept of caregiving, taking care of the very young and the very old, has been women's historic role. But our times have changed, and women are working full-time around the clock, and our children and our elderly require caring. So Ann's wonderful study, her very academic approach, brings countable statistics to a huge economic and social crisis that our country faces, and we are so pleased that she is lending her expertise and research to dialogue around the issue of caregiving in our country.

PHILLIPS: And, Ann, you write about this in your book and in other articles. Why? What is it that has made this such an important issue for you?

CRITTENDEN: I think it's an important issue for society now for two reasons. One is women have made enormous progress, and we now know women are capable, highly skilled individuals. So we are now thinking it's -- we are beginning to realize that the caring work is also highly skilled, central to the economy, extremely important work. So as women rise in stature, we sort of take a new look at caring rises in stature I think.

And secondly, women's time is now worth money. We can make $20, $50, $100 an hour or more, and when we raise our children or someone is caring for young children, they are paid nothing or minimum wage. So this is a glaring discrepancy that is now raising the issue: Who is going to take care of our kids? And why should they be the world's cheap or unpaid labor?

PHILLIPS: You know, when I was back in college, the buzz phrase, it was "breaking the glass ceiling." Remember that? Is that even an issue now? I want both of you to address this -- Judy.

MUELLER: The value of caregiving is what we are addressing. Certainly, as Ann said, women have broken the glass ceiling, and 78 percent of all women in the United States are fully employed in the workforce. So they are actually commanding wonderful salaries, but there is a disconnect between what we pay people to take care of children and to take care of the elderly. We don't value the work of caregiving economically. There is no comparable increase in salaries. We pay parking lot attendants more than we provide to the caregivers of our children. And the value of caregiving must be reconciled with what we espouse and what we actually pay caregivers.

PHILLIPS: And, Ann, you think there should be a dollar amount put on this, right?

CRITTENDEN: Well, the dollar amount is put on it now, and it's often zero or, you know, $5 an hour. So there is -- it's not that there is no dollar amount.

I also want to add that in the workplace, there is still more of glass ceiling on mothers than on anyone else. We now have really good evidence that the difference in salaries between mothers and all others is really emerging as the big wage gap. Also there is very good research showing that if you have a college degree and you raise one child at least, your lifetime loss of earnings is going to be $1 million or more, a couple...

PHILLIPS: Wow.

CRITTENDEN: Yes. It's -- so that's, to me, one of the big issues we need to face.

PHILLIPS: So, Ann, do you think fathers should take medical leave?

CRITTENDEN: Sure, I do. No, I think we need to have paid family leave. We are one of five countries on the face of the earth that doesn't even offer any paid parental leave.

PHILLIPS: What do you think, Judy?

MUELLER: Absolutely. I think people have hesitated to take parental leave, men particularly, because they don't want to jeopardize their jobs. And it's quite shocking that we have the legislation now and the possibility, and people don't utilize it. So I am hoping that our talking and bringing this issue public for larger exploration will help affect the outcomes of caregiving for men as well as women.

PHILLIPS: Let's talk about the elderly too. Both of you brought this up previously. Is the time of homes -- nursing homes, is that just not what people are doing nowadays? Are more elderly folks living with families now? Because you talk about this also being a very big crisis.

MUELLER: All non-institutionalized elder care, 87 percent of it in the United States is provided by women. They are expected culturally, historically and presently to take care of the elderly. So, yes, it is a problem, and we are seeing that the elderly flourish, if they are allowed to be in their own homes and not put in off-site caregiving facilities. So we want to make this possible as a value, so the outcomes of understanding the data are Ann's contribution to exploring both day care and elder care.

CRITTENDEN: Can I add to that?

PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Ann.

CRITTENDEN: As I mentioned that if you raise children, you know, an intact family will lose well over $1 million, when they have a child, in lost wages. The same type of research has been done on elder care, and the study showed that the person caring for elderly parents, let's say, is likely to lose about $650,000 in lifetime earnings. So it's...

PHILLIPS: That's amazing when you look at the dollar figure.

CRITTENDEN: Yes. So when people urge others to respect family values, they -- you know, they have to take all of this into consideration.

PHILLIPS: Obviously a lot of topics you ladies want to discuss and want to address at this conference, but if you could walk away with at least one major accomplishment, what would it be? Both of you if you could give me your thoughts quickly before we wrap up. Go ahead, Judy.

MUELLER: Yes, the understanding that we have a changed world. We are all living to be much older, and that for the first time in history we have two generations of retired people living simultaneously. And all of us are caregivers and care-needers during our lifetime. We must reconcile our values with the economics of caring, because we, as people, are a moral society when we take care of one another. And our economic policies and the nexus of government and business must be reconciled.

PHILLIPS: Ann.

CRITTENDEN: It's very similar. I would say we have got to realize -- I would love to raise consciousness in the old fashioned sense -- that your first 20 years you are a dependent. Your last 15, 65 to 80, you are probably a dependent. So that at least almost half of human life involves dependency, and that means another bunch of people in the prime of life have to care for these individuals, so that we are all in this together. We have to care for each other, and we have to understand this is highly skilled, highly essential work that needs to be properly valued. That's what family values to me really means.

PHILLIPS: Ann Crittenden and Judy Mueller, thank you so much ladies -- we appreciate it -- great discussion.

CRITTENDEN: Thank you.

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