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CNN Saturday Morning News
Zinni Continues Efforts to Broker Cease-Fire in Mideast
Aired March 16, 2002 - 07:11 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's turn our focus now to the conflict in the Middle East. U.S. envoy Anthony Zinni is moving back and forth between Israeli and Palestinian officials trying to broker a cease-fire after 18 months of deadly clashes, an intifada, if you will.
Our Michael Holmes joining us live from Jerusalem with the latest on all of this.
Michael, what is the latest?
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Miles.
Yes, well, Anthony Zinni continues his efforts to try to bring about some sort of cease-fire here. He just a short time ago concluded a meeting with several senior Palestinians, including the chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat. He then had lunch with those senior officials, and Yasser Arafat came along too, so obviously some off-the-record, at least, talks there at that lunch.
Now, I can tell you that perhaps there is some news from this meeting. Palestinian sources tell us that talks, if they can be arranged, between the Palestinians and the Israelis will be including political talks and not just security issues.
Now, what this would mean is that they wouldn't be just talking about a cease-fire, which was General Zinni's -- really, his sole stated mission here, but would include broader political talks. That would be very significant indeed if they could go past the cease-fire and start talking about some of the other issues.
Palestinians were told -- also reiterated at that meeting today with General Zinni, that no substantive talks can take place until Israeli troops are out of all Palestinian-controlled areas, the so- called Areas A. IDF, Israeli Defense Force, troops do remain in several areas, including Bethlehem, where there were exchanges of fire last night, Friday night, here.
And there was a lot of firing going on for a period of time there in Bethlehem. And while we look -- while we see pictures of that occurring there, I can also tell you that Palestinian sources tell us that two Palestinians were also shot and killed by Israeli forces overnight in separate incidents. The circumstances of that were not entirely sure at the moment. Now, the Palestinians saying no substantive talks until encounters like that in Palestinian-controlled areas that you're looking at there now end, and all troops move out of those areas.
Back to General Zinni. He's later on today going to be meeting again with Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister. That meeting will be taking place at the prime minister's ranch, his farm, in southern Israel. And they will be talking once again.
Relative calm here overnight, despite those incidents we just discussed. There was also a funeral today that we should mention of a Palestinian woman, her three children and young nephew, killed when their donkey cart hit an explosive device. Palestinians claim it was set by Israelis, Israelis claim it wasn't them at all.
And it is, of course, the Sabbath today, the last two Saturday nights here have seen terrorist incidents or bombings. And if that were to occur again this week, it would certainly dampen Mr. Zinni's chances of getting these two sides to talk, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, CNN's Michael Holmes. We appreciate you joining us this morning.
A little bit later in our program we'll be taking your e-mails and your calls on this very subject. We invite you to send them to us now to wam -- W-A-M -- @cnn.com. Thoughts, comments about the Middle East and the prospects for peace there.
And our reporters this morning joining us, Michael Holmes, who you just saw. Along with him, Kelly Wallace will provide her perspective from the North Lawn of the White House, which she is so good at doing.
Now let's move on and continue further discussion about the Middle East. For that, we turn to an expert, Marc Ginsberg, a scholar with the Middle East Institute, former ambassador to Morocco. He joins us from Washington this morning.
Mr. Ginsberg, good to have you with us.
MARC GINSBERG, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO MOROCCO: Hi, Miles.
O'BRIEN: There seems to be a confluence of events coming together which actually call for a bit of optimism in the Middle East, and just to say that is a good thing.
First of all, let's talk about the first thing that seems to be at work here, and that's the general feeling of perhaps despair that this cycle of violence has created. In other words, for 18 months of tit for tat, this has led to nothing except more violence.
Is that a key factor, in your mind?
GINSBERG: It certainly has got to be a key factor, Miles, because with the despair and the violence and the killings and the destruction on either side, I think there's a -- clearly a -- hopefully some silent voices that are beginning to raise on both parts of the green line, that is, between the Palestinians and the Israelis, who want to see some political process at work.
Unfortunately, neither leader, Prime Minister Sharon or President Arafat, have clearly told their people exactly what sort of political process they're prepared to lead the negotiations into.
O'BRIEN: What do you mean by that?
GINSBERG: Well, on the one hand, Mr. Arafat is calling for a complete return of Israeli forces beyond the -- back to the 19 -- pre- 1967 borders. The proposal that may be unveiled by Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia does the same.
And on the other hand, the prime minister of Israel is dealing with the political reality that neither he nor his party are really prepared to make any real substantial pullback from the West Bank, largely because of the settlements that are there, and also because of the security considerations.
O'BRIEN: So it comes to... it comes back to that same old discussion on land for peace, and whether the Israelis are willing to do that. And so while we started off this discussion on the possibility there might be a shred of optimism in all that, when you hear that and you get back to that very familiar discussion and debate, it makes one a bit pessimistic, doesn't it?
GINSBERG: Well, it does. And part of the reason -- part of the problem here is that the United States is really engaged, in my judgment, at least -- even with the optimism right now, in what I could call over-the-counter diplomacy when we need major surgery.
We're going to have to come and bite the bullet about putting monitors and peacekeeping forces on the ground to separate these two forces. We don't know what'll happen with the Sabbath tonight, whether Hamas will fulfill its claim that it will continue terrorist activities against Israel.
Mr. Arafat has said one thing to Western audiences and then called for a jihad, or a holy war, against Israel to Arab voices. And Prime Minister Sharon is being torn between his right wing and his left-wing coalition partners who want to see some peace process begin.
The problem is, it's going to take both parties to recognize that neither is going to get exactly what they want. They're going to have to find a way to go back to what President Clinton put on the table back at the very end of his administration, that both -- that almost anyone recognizes were reasonable principles of compromise.
O'BRIEN: All right, well, one final point here, and this is another factor which seems to be at play here, is that the U.S. desire, the administration's desire to pursue the war on terrorism, specifically the target seems to be Iraq, that desire really couples very directly with the Middle East and what the administration might want to do or perhaps might desire to become more engaged, or maybe forced to become more engaged. Talk about the links between those two things.
GINSBERG: Well, Miles, there's a direct connection between settling or bringing down the level of violence in the Middle East and then Crown Prince Abdullah's willingness to unveil a peace process initiative at the Arab League summit on March 27 in Beirut, and then obtaining Arab support for a United States effort to overthrow the regime in Baghdad.
Without try -- without the United States demonstrating serious efforts to quell the violence, to bring the parties back to the peace process negotiating table, and to compel Mr. Arafat and Mr. Sharon to lay out a vision of peace that's acceptable to both, there can be no adequate support for the United States in the Arab world to overthrow the regime in Baghdad. And indeed, I suspect that that's what Mr. Cheney is hearing as he makes his way around the Middle East at this time.
O'BRIEN: I guess everything is linked in that part of the world.
Marc Ginsberg with the Middle East Institute, we thank you for your insights this morning. Thanks for being with us on CNN SATURDAY MORNING.
GINSBERG: Thank you, Miles.
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