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CNN Saturday Morning News
Interview With James Rubin
Aired March 30, 2002 - 07:41 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has called Yasser Arafat an enemy of Israel and he's blaming the Palestinian leader personally for the attacks that have left at least 30 people dead since Passover began.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we're going to step away from the front lines just for a little bit more of an analysis. We've been doing this all morning on the latest events that are happening in the Middle East.
James Rubin is the former chief spokesperson and top policy adviser for the State Department. He's in our London bureau this morning.
Jamie, good to see you.
JAMES RUBIN, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Nice to be with you.
PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about the United States and its role now. Does it need to move beyond the security issue and link up political process with a cease-fire? All right?
RUBIN: Well, I think the various plans on the table do envisage linking security issues with the political issues. The United States, over the last 24 hours, has sent a combined message to the region. On the one hand, explaining that Americans can understand the rage caused by terrorist acts against Israelis, rage very similar to the rage Americans felt when the World Trade Center was destroyed and therefore, a response by the Israelis is certainly justified.
On the other hand, the administration has also made clear that the response the Israelis are choosing may not be the wisest course.
I think, personally, if you look back over the last several months when the Israeli leaders have decided to enter Ramallah and other Arab territories and use force against Chairman Arafat's infrastructure and his power base, the result has not been less terrorism and arguably, whatever power Arafat does or doesn't have to stop terrorism, it certainly weaker when he doesn't have telephones and electricity and his policemen and security people are arrested or killed.
PHILLIPS: Now, Jamie, interesting, you say Chairman Arafat and I think one thing that we noticed yesterday with Yasser Arafat's interview with Christiane Amanpour, he insisted on being called General Arafat, which leads to an e-mail that Miles has here.
O'BRIEN: Well, yeah, this comes from Nikki. "Yesterday in the interview with Christiane Amanpour -" full disclosure here, that is the spouse of Jamie Rubin, "am I the only one who noticed that in his anger about the question she asked, he referred to himself as General Arafat? What does that say about how feels toward terrorism? Once a terrorist always a terrorist?"
Jamie, did he give himself a new rank?
RUBIN: Well, I think on different days Mr. Arafat is a different person. And during my time in government, there were days in which he seemed to want to be a political leader who cared about the future of his country and on other days, he seemed more interested in the internal struggle with the Israelis.
Certainly, uniform worn, gun in front of him in a compound that's under heavy tank and artillery and machine gun fire. It's not surprising that he would don the role of General Arafat, but it does raise the question that's always been out there -- is why has Chairman Arafat, Mr. Arafat not chosen to use the influence he has, however limited it may be, to try to convince the Palestinian people that ever time a suicide bomber goes into an Israeli pizza parlor or goes in and kills 22 people as they did the other night, that the Palestinian people end up suffering. The Palestinians are not gaining by terrorism; they're just convincing the Israelis that force is the only thing they understand.
And so, Chairman Arafat, when he's playing his general role may not be serving his people in the political role that he has often taken as President of the Palestinian Authority.
PHILLIPS: Another e-mail question, Jamie. This one comes from Bruce. "I remember many years ago, Arafat coming to the United Nations with a gun on his holster. It seems to me that Arafat is a terrorist. He's always been a terrorist and always will be a terrorist. Should not Israel treat Arafat in the same manner that the United States treats Osama bin Laden?"
RUBIN: Well, there are differences between Osama bin Laden and Mr. Arafat. Certainly, Chairman Arafat has not done what he should do to rein in terrorism. And he is, therefore, responsible for many of these activities that have taken place that have resulted in the mass murder of innocent men, women and children. And in that sense, he is responsible for terrorist activity.
On the other hand, it was the Israelis themselves who chose to deal with him, who made him a partner in the peace process, who signed peace agreements with him in Oslo and in -- on the White House lawn and it was the Israelis themselves who chose to (OFF-MIKE) last 10 years.
So this decision about how to deal with Arafat has to take into account the long history the Israelis have of dealing with him terrorist or not because you don't make peace with your enemy -- or with your friends. You make peace with your enemies and that's what Israeli leaders have decided to do in the last decade.
O'BRIEN: All right, James Rubin, thank you very much.
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