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CNN Saturday Morning News

Reporter's Notebook: March Madness

Aired March 30, 2002 - 09:36   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: March Madness coming to a head. Four men's college basketball teams are in Atlanta this morning, the Final Four, to compete today to see who will hoop it up Monday for the national title.

And the women are down to two in San Antonio, by the way. Let's not forget that. A little Title Nine moment there.

Let's toss it to Kyra Phillips downstairs on the "TALKBACK" set. She's used to talking back a lot.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: I always talk back to you, don't I?

O'BRIEN: That's right. We've got a lot of e-mails up here, Kyra. And we got -- did you grab some people out of the Dunkin' Donuts line?

PHILLIPS: Yes, we have some folks down here.

And, you know, I'm so excited, I'm surrounded by three sports studs. Did you know that?

O'BRIEN: Well, I'm sure you're quite pleased.

PHILLIPS: Yes, I'm very excited. I'm going to introduce them to you, OK.

We're going to start off and show you we have "Sports Illustrated's" Seth Davis, "Basketball America's" David Scott, and from the "Indianapolis Star," Terry Hutchens.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us.

SETH DAVIS, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": Thank you.

PHILLIPS: So have we all been getting along OK?

DAVIS: So far. I just came down to get a doughnut. I don't know why -- they just pulled me out here and said, "can you talk about basketball?"

DAVID SCOTT, "BASKETBALL AMERICA": I feel like Bachelor Number Two.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: And Bachelor Number Three, would you please -- you know, I probably could set you guys up. Are you looking for a date?

SCOTT: I -- yes, absolutely.

TERRY HUTCHENS, INDIANAPOLIS STAR": My wife is watching in Connecticut; I'll stay out of that one, too.

SCOTT: I win.

PHILLIPS: So I want to know: Do we all agree on who the final team is going to be, or do we all disagree with each other?

DAVIS: I'm sure we disagree.

SCOTT: Absolutely.

HUTCHENS: I hope we disagree.

PHILLIPS: Seth, what are you calling?

DAVIS: I'm calling Maryland. But at this point, as we were talking before we went on the air, we're all guessing right now. Everyone wants these expert opinions, but you got Maryland and Kansas; I think they've been the two best teams in the country, really, all season long.

But you have to wonder if whoever comes out of that game is going to have to expend so much energy just to get to Monday night that maybe they won't have what it takes.

But I'll go with Maryland.

But you disagree Terry, right?

PHILLIPS: Terry?

HUTCHENS: I like Kansas to beat Maryland. And then, like you said, I mean, whoever comes out of that game is going to be so spent, I think whoever wins the first game has a pretty good shot to win it all.

DAVIS: You have to pick who's going to win the first game, you can't just...

SCOTT: Can we get on with this? Oklahoma -- have you seen Oklahoma?

DAVIS: I've seen Oklahoma; very impressive.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: There's an Oklahoma thing going on too, because you've got the women's Final Four Oklahoma and the guys, so there's kind of a vibe happening here. SCOTT: The difference there is U-Conn women are too dominant; much too dominant.

She threw in the Title Nine thing. I thought you said we were off that.

PHILLIPS: All right, we're not going to go into detail.

DAVIS: I still haven't gotten my donut, is what I'm...

SCOTT: And I haven't gotten my date, so...

PHILLIPS: Terry, any requests?

HUTCHENS: On donuts?

PHILLIPS: Yes -- or women, anything?

HUTCHENS: No, that's for him.

PHILLIPS: Why don't we get right to the e-mails? What do you say?

SCOTT: Absolutely.

PHILLIPS: All right, with the three cards here.

Miles, fire it away. What do we have?

O'BRIEN: All right. You know, you mentioned the -- is it politically correct to say the fairer sex? No, probably not, right? I'm not going to say that. The females.

Bruce Gather has this question: "Sooner girls are in the finals, Sooner men play in the semis today. Average attendance was 60 when Coale took over" -- talking about he Sooner girls' coach -- "they're now playing to 30,000 Sooner -- 30,00 people. Sooner football coach Bob Stoops makes $2 million. Shouldn't Sherry Coale be paid a man's salary for doing a man's job?"

SCOTT: When Sherry Coale generates the revenue that the Oklahoma men's basketball and football team does, absolutely.

But until then, she's duly compensated for what she is doing. And I hope we didn't offend you with that, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Oh, you could never offend me, I'm just going to kick your butt later.

SCOTT: I look forward to it.

PHILLIPS: Seth?

DAVIS: Well, I agree. I mean, the bottom line is the money; and to make money, you have to be on television. And you know, I think that the women's game really does make a mistake by playing its tournament at the same time that the men do, playing its Final Four at the same time that the men do.

If they want more exposure, more attention, I think they need to either move it up or move it back -- somehow get their own niche.

PHILLIPS: Boy, wouldn't it be nice, though, if we could have it at dueling times and all be, you know, making the same amount of money, the same type of attention.

I don't know. Terry, what are your thoughts?

HUTCHENS: I just think that, you know -- I just don't think the women's game is to the point where the men's game is. I mean, you know, you have the -- you know last night you had a big game with Connecticut and...

DAVIS: Tennessee.

HUTCHENS: Tennessee, thank you.

And, you know, I mean, I that that's as big as women's basketball gets right there. But I don't know, I...

SCOTT: It's definitely gotten bigger. The women's game has definitely come along.

PHILLIPS: People are talking about it a lot.

(CROSSTALK)

DAVIS: ... highest-attended women's basketball...

PHILLIPS: Yes, record crowd. Record crowd.

DAVIS: ... so I think that's terrific.

But I think that, you know, the women also have to, I think, make some changes to get a little bit more parity in the game. I think that's really -- the explosion of the men's game happened when you had legitimate upsets in the post-season.

Right now with women, you still have most of the same suspects, although Oklahoma, I think, is an example of a program that's built. So they have come a long way.

PHILLIPS: Darcy (ph), we got questions from some folks hanging around the set this morning. That's right -- up bright and early.

Go right ahead, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question as a high school coach, why is there so much media attention on the two coaches of Indiana and not more media attention putting on the kids who have worked hard, done the practice, gone to class and plan on graduating? SCOTT: Fair question, but sex sells. We're in a business that wants the story that's going to be there day-in and day-out.

And the sexy story, the one that people want to hear about is about Bobby Knight and Mike Davis, and if there's any tension still existing.

He's a guy from Indiana -- he can tell you they're selling newspapers because Bobby Knight's name is still in it.

It's a great question, it's very fair, but unfortunately that's the business we're in.

PHILLIPS: But Bobby Knight's not the coach, and look how well this team is doing, there's no controversy surrounding the team right now.

HUTCHENS: You know, in Indiana Bob Knight is still king to a lot of people. Mike Davis is trying to escape from under that shadow. And, I mean, that is the big story in Indiana, there's no doubt about it.

But, I mean, I think a lot of people would like to get past that. I think the Bob Knight faction maybe is becoming less outspoken in Indiana. There's more Mike Davis supporters; we've been hearing that all week in Indiana.

I just think that, you know, at some point we're going to get past that, they're going to be able to focus on the kids more, like you're talking about.

But I just don't know if it's quite there yet.

PHILLIPS: Seth?

DAVIS: Well I just -- I think it's a great question, because Mike Davis, unlike a lot of college coaches, will say, well, I think it should be about the kids. Mike Davis really wants it to be about the kids. He's a very humble, honest guy.

And, you know, I think it's a same that Bob Knight down in Lubbock, Texas still hasn't called him since Mike Davis took the job. And, you know, I would like to believe that at some point we can get behind -- beyond this whole Knight thing, but I think it's going to be some time.

PHILLIPS: Real quick, we've got to go to break, I see you shaking your head.

SCOTT: No, never; you'll never get past it. Bobby Knight was Indiana, Indiana was Bobby Knight. And Mike Davis knew that when he took the job. He's done a great job; he's here this weekend because of it. But Bobby Knight is always going to be the Indiana story.

PHILLIPS: All right, we're talking about the Final Four, basketball and all kinds of other stuff when it comes to what's happening here in Atlanta when it comes B-ball.

We're going to take more e-mails and more viewer questions as soon as we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: We're taking e-mails and we're talking about the Final Four, the big game that's here in Atlanta, Georgia.

With me, three distinguished guests talking about the subject matter, Seth Davis with "Sports Illustrated," David Scott, "Basketball America," and Terry Hutchens, "Indianapolis Star."

Miles, we have more e-mails up there, right?

O'BRIEN: Yes, we've got some good e-mails, as always, Kyra.

This one is -- well, this is going to stretch our guests ability to answer. "Please tell me how these young people manage to play these tournaments and maintain a grade-point high enough to stay eligible? I think there is something not quite right here. Most students at an academically challenging school such as Duke have all they can do to keep up with a full-time class schedule. I think there is an incredible double standard here."

And that's signed Wondering Walter.

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: ... himself, because he went to Duke and he wants to get their plug-in for not being here.

DAVIS: Can't we talk about Tom Coverdale's ankle? I mean, we're really weighing in on heavy topics. It's early for that.

SCOTT: This is issue television.

(CROSSTALK)

DAVIS: All I know is I barely made it through four years of Duke, and I didn't do anything outside...

PHILLIPS: And here you are.

DAVIS: And here I am with these two gentlemen.

PHILLIPS: On CNN.

DAVIS: You know, I think you have to have a sense of trust in these schools. You don't have a choice but to trust these schools to an extent, that they are, you know, upholding some sense of academic integrity.

Most big-time programs have a lot of tutoring going on, especially on the road, they take academic advisers on the road, so they're very hands-on with their students. Sorry, Dave. No, it's definitely -- listen, they have a lot of -- obviously they spent a lot of time on this stuff. But actually, studies will show you that athletes tend to do better during the season academically than in the off-season, because their schedules are a lot more regimented.

So some people will make the argument that because of that infrastructure, they actually are getting a lot more attention academically. But it's obviously -- I mean, they're on the road for three weeks during the tournament, so they're missing a little bit of class time there.

SCOTT: Absolutely. It depends on the institution, how committed the institution as a whole is.

Bottom line, it's a business, and they're out there to win games. And if the winning takes precedence over the learning, well that's what's going to happen.

Now, at a fine institution like the one that Seth attended at Duke, it probably doesn't happen. But as the studies have shown and as the numbers are showing in a recent "USA Today" editorial, these Final Four teams, if there was a 50 percent mandatory graduation rate, you'd only have one of these teams here, and the other three would be sitting at home.

So there is a discrepancy, but there are so many other problems that need to be fixed -- the problems of agents, the problems of the sneaker companies -- that to look into the education, I know is sounds silly -- that you're supposed to be looking at education first -- but that's almost third or fourth on the list.

PHILLIPS: Yes, that is a big reality, though; the money draws them in. And we look back at the news stories of all the colleges that were caught for certain discrepancies about sliding through classes and getting certain grades and the athletes taking the easy majors. I remember all that criticism when I was in school, too. I won't name my fine institution, because we were investigated for it.

But anyway, Terry, what do you think?

HUTCHENS: How long were you at SMU?

PHILLIPS: Hey, I do remember the SMU scandal. That was a while ago.

HUTCHENS: Indiana has always made a big deal about how they do graduate a real high percentage of their athletes, maybe -- I'd have to say they're probably in the top 20 percent, anyway, of all the schools in the country.

But, you know, talking to kids this week, they've all talked about the same things -- is that they're having to bring more stuff on the road. Kyle Hornsby, a junior guard for Indiana, was talking about how his three classes -- or three tests, three presentations next week, he has all of this stuff to prepare for. He says it's all about practice, study, practice, study, a little bit of rest in between.

But I know these guys are doing a lot of studying on the road.

PHILLIPS: We've got a phone call. Go ahead and tell us who you are, sir; I know you're from Indiana. That's all I heard.

Go ahead.

CALLER: I'm just questioning how they select the officials for the Final Four.

SCOTT: Good question.

DAVIS: Supposedly on merit.

SCOTT: Yes, it's a merit system. And it's funny, when you're asking who is going to win the Final Four, it's the fifth team, the referees, because they're going to decide who wins the Final Four.

If Oklahoma is allowed to get up and down the court and play a physical game, they have a distinct advantage. If Kansas is allowed to run, they have a distinct advantage. And the referees do matter.

But it is on a merit system, and it's obviously, most of the time, the bigger conference referees that are there.

DAVIS: They also -- they get evaluated throughout the tournament. So they have -- any time that you have officials on the floor, you have supervisors and people on press row basically grading their performance throughout.

But it's also seniority and, dare I say politics comes into play as well?

SCOTT: And political correctness as well. You'll notice the makeup of the referees -- there will be a diverse group. And that's on purpose.

HUTCHENS: And it's selected every step of the way, too. I mean, these guys don't know at the regional if they're going to the Final Four until after the regionals are over. So it's -- the nine officials that were at the regional level are evaluated, and then from there they go on to the next level.

DAVIS: One thing we do know is no matter who is refing the games, all the coaches will think they're terrible.

I always watch these games where I see...

PHILLIPS: There's going to be a fight no matter what.

DAVIS: Both coaches, they're always mad at the refs. And I'm thinking well, if they're helping you, they got to be hurting you. And no one is ever happy with the refs, so that's the only thing we really know.

PHILLIPS: Minus Bobby Knight, though, it could be very quiet.

Darcy (ph), you got a question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is: Why do you think that tonight's game between Kansas and Maryland is considered a final game rather than a semifinal game?

SCOTT: Because people are morons.

DAVIS: Wow.

HUTCHENS: Wow, that was strong.

SCOTT: It's not all people.

PHILLIPS: David, tell us how you really feel.

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: No, people want to re-seed the Final Four at this time of the year, and you hear it every year. It's not a good idea. What happens is it's luck of the draw. That's how you get to this point in the tournament.

And for Kansas and Maryland to be considered the championship game, you're ignoring that Oklahoma-Indiana match-up, and you're making them even more upset. So you're looking at a very fair and balanced Final Four.

DAVIS: Not only that, I think it's kind of a surprise to Oklahoma. Oklahoma beat both Kansas and Maryland this year, so it must be kind of a surprise to them. But we got one Sooner fan in the house.

PHILLIPS: One Sooner?

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: Are you just getting home from last night?

DAVIS: I think that's be a bad idea if they re-seeded.

PHILLIPS: All right, let's take another e-mail. Miles, what do you got?

O'BRIEN: All right, a couple here. This one comes from Sonny, and this is for Seth: "Well, since Duke is out of it, I really don't care who wins. My teams are first UNC then Duke; the rest don't count as far as I'm concerned."

All right, that was gratuitous, but I thought I'd throw it in.

All right, this one is from...

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: You can't be for USC and Duke.

O'BRIEN: UNC and Duke? Yes, that is kind of...

SCOTT: You can't root for both of them. It's against the law.

O'BRIEN: They must be bipolar. I don't know.

Anyway, this is from Conja Summerland (ph): "I hope Indiana beats OU today for two reasons. First, OU recently beat KU. Secondly, according to an op-ed piece in the "New York Times," they have a graduation rate of zero. I don't think that's right."

Is that true, first of all?

SCOTT: I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but...

DAVIS: Zero is the number.

SCOTT: ... the problem is you can make numbers say anything you want. It's all about the spin that you put on those numbers.

That ignores kids who left because they transferred. It ignores kids who left for the NBA. And schools will always try and spin and massage those numbers in order to get them to their appeal. So that 0 percent is a little misleading.

DAVIS: Hard to spin the number zero, though. I mean, you know...

SCOTT: Well, it rolls nicely.

PHILLIPS: Yes, zero, zero and zero.

SCOTT: Good PR people can spin that.

DAVIS: In all fairness, that statistic does not necessarily cover all of Calvin Sampson's regime. He's in there for part of it; but the time frame that they did those studies for, it hasn't caught up...

(CROSSTALK)

HUTCHENS: ... back 10 years. And it's a long way back. Right, but I mean the other thing is that when you're talking about kids that are -- I mean, so many kids are only in the program for one year or two years and they're gone. I mean, it's hard to get the complete graduation rates, too.

PHILLIPS: Darcy (ph) has another question from our audience.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I'd like to know why Coach Sampson and the Oklahoma Sooners do not get the respect that they deserve. He's got an outstanding program there. Year after year they challenge anybody. He doesn't have the marquis players; and he has new players, and yet he blends them in to top-flight basketball players year after year. Go Oklahoma Sooners.

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: By being here, he has gaining the respect. And I'm with you; I'm with Oklahoma tonight. And I'd like to know where you'll be tonight because I want to be next to you when they win. And I'd like to be there on Monday as well, because...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me a pass where I can sit next to you and I'll be there.

SCOTT: He is getting the respect now.

PHILLIPS: He's scamming that good ticket.

SCOTT: He's getting respect.

DAVIS: He'll trade a ticket for a date, just so you know.

PHILLIPS: Can you handle that?

SCOTT: I can handle that.

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: Go Sooners.

DAVIS: I do agree. I think for a while Calvin Sampson has been a secret. This is not the first time his teams have -- they play very hard, they play well together, they play very smart.

But you know, you really got to make it happen in the tournament for him to break through to the Final Four, I think maybe...

PHILLIPS: Terry, final thoughts.

HUTCHENS: The Final Four is what gets you that respect, too. I mean, I think that's what Mike Davis at Indiana is feeling this week, you know Sampson is feeling it, Roy Williams, I mean, all of them.

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: Gary Williams had it last year, and he gets it again this year. And now he needs to make the next step. If he does, he gets the ultimate vindication; otherwise, he's a guy that, like the Buffalo Bills, just gets there.

PHILLIPS: David Scott, Seth Davis, Terry Hutchens, thanks so much, guys. Appreciate it.

All right, we'll get you that date.

SCOTT: Appreciate it.

PHILLIPS: Can you get some tickets for my parents? SCOTT: Absolutely, yes.

PHILLIPS: We can have a little trade.

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: Do you have sisters?

PHILLIPS: Our producer Darcy (ph) is actually -- I don't have sisters, but Darcy (ph) is single. See our producer right there? Give a little wave Darc. There you go.

Could you take her to the game?

SCOTT: Oh, no question; sure.

How about a donut for Seth?

PHILLIPS: I'll get you a donut, Seth.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: All right, we're going to take a break and throw it back up to you, Miles.

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