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CNN Saturday Morning News

Interview With Edward Abington, Alon Pinkas

Aired April 06, 2002 - 07:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now Israel says that it's rooting out terrorists, the Palestinians say the Israelis are conducting state terrorism. Well, we have a couple of guests to talk about this this morning on both sides of the Mideast divide.

Edward Abington, a consultant to the Palestinian Authority, joins us from Washington...

EDWARD ABINGTON, CONSULTANT TO PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY: Good morning.

PHILLIPS: ... and Israeli Consul General Alon Pinkas joins us from New York. Good morning to both of you.

ALON PINKAS, ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL: Good morning, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Mr. Pinkas, I should get you to respond, obviously, firsthand to Saeb Erakat and the discussion we just had.

PINKAS: I have to tell you that, you know, I really don't appreciate the comparison that he makes between the democratically elected leader Arafat and the democratically elected president of the United States, George Bush. I think that's an insult to the -- to people's intelligence.

Look, Saeb Erakat is making good points. Saeb Erakat has always been a man of peace. Saeb Erakat has always been a reasonable, pragmatic, realistic Palestinian negotiator.

Problem is, Kyra, that Saeb Erakat doesn't call the shots, doesn't have the authority, does not negotiate unless he's told what to do. And he's a minority, he's a negligible minority at that.

The problem is Arafat, and the problem centers on Arafat for good reasons. This is a bankrupt leader who has done nothing that he committed to do, who has complied with no agreement that he's signed, who disavowed every promise that he has made, who lied to President Clinton, lied to President Bush, lied to Secretary Albright, lied to Secretary Powell, and lied his way through five Israeli prime ministers.

It's quite natural for people to be upset with him.

PHILLIPS: Mr. Abington, is Yasser Arafat's credibility shot? ABINGTON: Well, if you listen to Mr. Alon, obviously it is. But I think that's a pretty one-sided point of view of history. Arafat has carried out commitments, he has lived up to commitments.

Look, this is a situation in which both sides -- and, I might say, both leaders, Sharon and Arafat -- have got themselves into a terrible situation. Saeb Erakat is right, Arafat is the elected leader of the Palestinian people. And Mr. Alon said that Saeb Erakat doesn't call the shots. He's right, Yasser Arafat does.

You have to deal with Yasser Arafat whether you like it or not. And I am confident that Secretary Powell, when he gets to Jerusalem, will end up meeting with Mr. Arafat.

PHILLIPS: You mentioned that Yasser Arafat has stuck by a number of commitments. Can you lay those out for us? Can you give us a few examples?

ABINGTON: Yes, let me give you an example. In 1980 -- 1998- 1999, when the process seemed to be moving forward, there was good security cooperation between Israeli and Palestinian security officials. In 1999, there were fewer Israelis killed by terrorism, by Palestinian terrorism, than any time since 1967.

Very clearly, this happened not only because of Israeli efforts to control terrorism, but because there was a working partnership between Israelis and Palestinians.

PHILLIPS: So...

ABINGTON: So things have been done, things have been accomplished. One cannot claim it as a totally black and white picture.

PHILLIPS: So obviously when you bring up these examples, shows the power that Yasser Arafat has to speak and people will listen. So back to the question that's been asked a number of times, why does Yasser Arafat not come out in Arabic and call for a stop to these suicide bombings?

ABINGTON: He has done that. He did it on December 16. You know, let's face it, both sides are in a situation in which each is attacking the other as hard as they can. And I think that President Bush recognized this in his speech day before yesterday, and he is offering a lifeline not only to the Palestinians but also to the Israelis to find a way out of this.

I deeply and sincerely believe after working in this region for over 30 years, there is no military solution to this problem.

PHILLIPS: Mr. Pinkas, a lifeline.

PINKAS: The lifeline exists in the form of the Tenet plan and the Mitchell plan. The lifeline existed in the form of Camp David. I agree, I agree with Ed that what the president is trying to do is -- could be very constructive, could end up being very effective. The end game here has to do with the political process. There's no doubt about it. No one in his right mind in Israel would disagree with what Ed just said, that there's no military solution. And I don't think we're after a military solution, nor do we think that it's viable or doable if indeed we go -- we proceed with the military operation.

But the impediment to any political solution is terrorism, to any political arrangement, to any political process is terrorism. You cannot deal with a leadership that idealizes death and glorifies martyrs on their road to Jerusalem.

Enough with this nonsense that these are speeches made for domestic consumption. And we have to -- we all have to be sensitive, we in the West, we in America, we in England, we have to be sensitive to Arab political culture.

These suicide bombers, or homicidal maniacs, because they don't just commit suicide, they murder people, get their marching orders through these speeches. These speeches are made by Arafat. These speeches of incitement and hate have been condoned by Arafat, not just made by Arafat. And this is exactly what the president was referring to in both his statements, the one he gave at the White House two days ago and the one I saw on CNN this morning in an interview that he gave to British television.

PHILLIPS: Before we -- I know both of you are going to be with us every hour this morning, and we'll discuss a number of topics, of course, with this issue. But before I let you go this hour, the significance of Colin Powell's trip, how much of an impact do you think that this could make? Is it important that Colin Powell meets with Yasser Arafat? Let's start with you, Mr. Abington.

ABINGTON: I think Colin Powell's trip is extremely important because secretary -- or President Bush has given a new context to U.S. diplomatic efforts. President Bush has recognized Israel's very, very legitimate security concerns, but he has also acknowledged the Palestinians' political agenda. And in fact he has linked the two together, for the first time.

So what Secretary Powell is going to do, and it's going to be an extraordinarily difficult task, is to try to go out and come up with a game plan which addresses Israeli security requirements but also links and addresses Palestinian political aspirations.

And as I said, I am absolutely confident that Powell will meet with Mr. Arafat.

PHILLIPS: Alon Pinkas?

PINKAS: Every trip by a U.S. secretary of state to the region, certainly at a time of crisis, is important and has a tremendous potential to succeed, but also tremendous potential to fail. Israel, on its part, will do everything to facilitate the success. We have a special relationship with the United States of America. We have a special relationship with this administration. And I think that if the secretary indeed comes up with a game plan or an end game, as indicated, Israel will cooperated -- cooperate, rather, with it fully.

PHILLIPS: Gentlemen, we'll see you both next hour. Thank you so much.

PINKAS: Thank you.

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