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CNN Saturday Morning News

Interviews With Gideon Meir, Michael Tarazi

Aired April 13, 2002 - 07:11   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, we're going to hear from both sides of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. A bit later we'll talk with a Palestinian representative.

But first, joining me from Jerusalem is Gideon Meir, a senior Israeli foreign ministry official.

Mr. Meir, hello.

GIDEON MEIR, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: Hello. Hi, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's start with my first question. Taking a look at the situation in Jenin right now, you can't help but ask, why are (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- why are Israeli troops not being pulled out of the occupied territories?

MEIR: Because what we found there is a huge infrastructure of terror, a whole industry of terror, upper ground and underground. You know, Jenin is a capital of the suicide bomber. Jenin is a capital of Palestinian terror. And we must make sure that this infrastructure of terror will be once and for all eliminated.

I know it's not easy, I know it is difficult. Our forces have a very big fight there with the Palestinians. They gave us a fight there. And we have to make sure that the suicide bombers, at least from Jenin, will not come to kill our innocent people here in the streets of Israel.

I want to mention one figure, 23 suicide bombers out of 100 came out of Jenin. This is the explanation and the rationale why Israel defense forces are in Jenin.

PHILLIPS: So do you feel that this Israel sweep must finish before negotiations can even take place?

MEIR: Look, we are not going to stay there forever. We don't want to reoccupy the -- this terror -- these places. We want to go back where we have been before. We want to go back to the negotiating table.

But one must understand, terror must be eradicated before peace will prevail, because peace will not be able to prevail if terror will continue. If we will continue to see the same terror attacks which we saw yesterday on the eve of our Sabbath -- and by the way, always these attacks are coming or Passover or on the Sabbath -- if this will not be eliminated, we will never be able to go back to the negotiating table.

Therefore, the Powell mission is very important, because at the end of the day, it's only the American administration who have the power to bring a cease-fire and to get back the both parties to the negotiating table. But first and most -- first and foremost, terror must be eradicated.

PHILLIPS: Now, you talk about the importance of Powell's mission, yet Israel is putting pressure on Powell not to meet with Arafat due to the suicide bombing on Friday. However, Powell still met with Ariel Sharon, even though he is not going forward with following U.S. requests. So why not encourage Powell to meet with Arafat?

MEIR: I have -- I am totally unaware of any pressure which is being put from the Israeli government on Secretary Powell not to meet with Yasser Arafat. We might not like it, but I think this is a decision that the American administration has to make. They make it, it's their decision.

And the other part of your question, about Sharon, we have to understand, Ariel Sharon is the result, he's not the reason for what is happening. This all terrorist campaign started when Ehud Barak was prime minister, when Yasser Arafat got the best offers which he ever can dreamed about, a Palestinian state, 97 percent of the territory. And he decided to launch this vicious terror attack against our citizens.

So I don't see any reason why pressure should be put on us. We are the suffering, we are the bleeding nation, not the Palestinians.

PHILLIPS: Well, sir, I was looking at this pre-interview done with you by our bookers, and it says here that you said the Israelis put pressure on Powell to postpone his meeting with Arafat following Friday's suicide bombing.

MEIR: I'm saying I was -- I am totally unaware of any pressure. I think that when Secretary Powell has asked the Israeli government to meet with Chairman Yasser Arafat, the answer was yes. We might not be pleased with this meeting, but the answer to secretary was yes, because at the end of the day, as I said before, the American administration is the only game in town right now.

PHILLIPS: Sir, are you worried about Colin Powell's safety right now?

MEIR: Could you please repeat your question? I couldn't hear it.

PHILLIPS: Are you concerned with the safety of Secretary of State Colin Powell right now?

MEIR: We want Secretary Powell to succeed in his mission. It is very important for us that he will succeed, the same way it was important for us that General Zinni would succeed in his previous missions. It was the Palestinians who always prepared a red carpet for the American emissaries, carpet full of Jewish blood, red blood.

And therefore, we must make sure that this kind of terrorist attacks will be eliminated. Because as I said before, without having this kind of quiet, neither will be able -- neither side will be able to achieve a real cease-fire. And at the end of the day, it will be to the benefit of the Palestinians as well as to this Israelis to go back to the negotiating table.

But if Palestinian terror will continue, we have no other choice. We do it because we both have a choice. We want to protect our people. Believe me, in the past 10 days, my children were able to walk freely on the streets of Jerusalem. My family was free to walk. We want to see us going back to business as usual, and not to continue this kind of massacre, which are really killing whole families in the state of Israel.

PHILLIPS: Gideon Meir, thank you for your time, sir.

MEIR: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Coming up next, more on Powell postponing his meeting with Arafat. We'll get the Palestinian reaction from one of the PLO's legal advisers, coming right up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, you just heard the Israeli perspective on the Middle East crisis. Now let's hear from the Palestinian side.

Joining me from Jerusalem, Michael Tarazi, a legal adviser for the PLO.

Hello, sir, good to see you.

MICHAEL TARAZI, PLO LEGAL ADVISER: Nice to see you.

PHILLIPS: Well, considering another suicide bombing on Friday, still Arafat is not coming out and condemning these bombings. Why not?

TARAZI: Well, it's always been the Palestinian position to condemn the killing of innocent civilians, whether they be Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian extremists, or Palestinians killed by the Israeli government with the financial back of the United States.

The debate right now that's going on within the Palestinian leadership is a debate that's also reflected among Palestinians in general. Palestinians are asking themselves, Why are we always the ones who have to condemn the killing of innocent civilians, when Israel seems to be able to kill innocent civilians with impunity?

And considering right now this has come up at a time when there are reports of hundreds of Palestinians being killed in Jenin, in Nablus, and elsewhere in the occupied territories, that the United States hasn't condemned those killings either.

Palestinians are wondering, why is there a double standard like this, and what do we get by cooperating with this double standard?

PHILLIPS: But when you see these continuous suicide bombings, and even Al Aqsa Brigade coming out, a faction of Arafat's movement, taking responsibility for this, you have to wonder why, at this point -- such a crucial point -- he doesn't come out and say, This must stop. It seems disrespectful. Powell is just miles away, moments away from a conversation, yet these bombings are still taking place.

TARAZI: Well, he's also moments away from where massacres are taking place in Jenin and Nablus, and yet he hasn't said anything about that, Mr. Powell. And this is exactly what Palestinians are concerned about.

We have no problem condemning the killing of innocent civilians, and in fact we have repeatedly, and President Arafat did so in an op- ed in ""The New York Times," which was reprinted in Arabic and in Hebrew.

The issue is not condemnation. The issue is American credibility. Can the United States play a balanced role here in the Middle East? And if it's prepared to meet with Sharon, even though Sharon has told him repeatedly that he will not abide by any recommendation of the United States, and he will not abide by the Security Council resolutions, why then are there obstacles put in the way of a meeting with President Arafat?

PHILLIPS: Do you think Arafat is losing respect from his followers, as these bombings continue to take place?

TARAZI: Well, I don't think it's a question of losing respect or not respect. It's a question, again, of whether or not the U.S. is going to play a neutral role in this. And if President Arafat is constantly seen as jumping through hoops for the American administration, when the American administration really never comes out and treats the Palestinians as equal parties in this process, then I think it will erode Palestinian confidence, not only in President Arafat but also in the United States and in the entire peace process.

And right now, we have to encourage people to believe in that process rather than discourage them from that process.

PHILLIPS: How are you advising the PLO legally right now?

TARAZI: Well, we act as advisers with respect to all of the ongoing negotiations. The problem is, is that international law doesn't seem to be the operative law here, it's really a question of Israeli power and its ability to impose a solution on the Palestinians.

We have to remember that what the Israelis have done here for the last 35 is in violation of the fourth Geneva Convention, humanitarian law, human rights law. However, no one has ever forced Israel to abide by those laws. So we're encouraged right now by a growing awareness in Europe, particularly, to impose sanctions in order to enforce the law. What we really need here is an enforcement of international law, and the United States has not said that they will abide by the rule of law here, and that's a real problem.

PHILLIPS: Do you believe that Powell and Arafat should meet?

TARAZI: Absolutely. You have to remember, President Arafat is the democratically elected president of the Palestinian people. What is the message that Powell has given if he does not meet with one of the parties here? And the party that is currently suffering massacres and occupation, and the party that actually is supported by international law, even though the law is never enforced?

What he's in effect saying is, he's not going to abide by the democratic process, he's not going to respect Palestinian democracy. And I think that's a very dangerous message that he would be giving to the Palestinians.

It would also seriously undermine American credibility and America's ability to really impact the current impasse.

PHILLIPS: Michael Tarazi, legal adviser for the PLO, thank you for your side this morning, sir.

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