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CNN Saturday Morning News
Palestinian Authority Says No Elections Until Israelis Pull Back
Aired May 18, 2002 - 07:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Low-level violence continues in the West Bank, and Palestinian officials insist there will be no new elections until Israeli troops pull back.
CNN's Wolf Blitzer is on the scene.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat in Friday prayers in his Ramallah compound. But prayers alone won't eliminate his many headaches. He's under enormous pressure from the U.S. and Israel and his own Palestinian Authority to reform his organization and to hold new elections.
But Arafat says there won't be elections until Israel ends its military occupation.
YASSER ARAFAT, PRESIDENT, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY: As soon as we will finish this occupation for our land. According to the agreement, it was supposed to be at (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- at the beginning of '99.
BLITZER: The way things are going now, that could be a long time down the road.
The Palestinian leader spoke with reporters just as there was more gunfire elsewhere on the West Bank. Israeli tanks and armored vehicles rolled into the Jenin refugee camp, scene of the fiercest Israeli-Palestinian fighting during Israel's incursion last month.
Israeli military sources say they arrested about 20 Palestinians in the refugee camp as well as in the adjoining town. The Israelis say they had precise information, and as a result launched a limited preemptive strike.
GIDEON MEIR, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTRY: We went into the refugee camp, we are going out. There's no reason for Israel whatsoever to reoccupy the camp or to reoccupy Jenin.
BLITZER: Near Nablus, the Palestinian Red Crescent Society says a 7-year-old Palestinian boy was killed by Israeli gunfire, and that nine other Palestinians were injured. The Israeli military says it's checking the report. And in a separate incident, Israeli military sources say an Israeli-Arab woman was shot in the back and killed as she drove near the West Bank town of Tulkarem. It's unclear who fired the shot, though the woman's car had Israeli license plates.
Wolf Blitzer, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: For more perspective on the crisis in the Middle East, we're joined now by Ambassador Richard Murphy, a frequent guest of ours. He is a senior fellow for the Middle East at the Council on Foreign Relations, joins us, as always, from New York.
Ambassador Murphy, good to have you with us again.
AMB. RICHARD MURPHY, MIDDLE EAST FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Thank you, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about this apparent catch-22. Yasser Arafat says there will be elections if the Israelis pull out of occupied territories. That's a big if.
MURPHY: Well, I think it's very much in his interests and in the Palestinian community generally that the elections be held as soon as possible, whether...
O'BRIEN: Why is it in his interest? Why -- I mean, he's...
MURPHY: Well, because he's been criticized by the Israelis and questioned by others about his legitimacy as a leader for the -- over these past several years. He was elected back in '95-'96, I think, and yet he's been challenged as not representing anything but himself.
An election, if he is elected, would reinforce his position. If it's accompanied by an election of the parliament, the legislative council, and he gets into a more cooperative relationship with that council, that'll be good for everybody.
O'BRIEN: Well, how much support does Yasser Arafat have, though? Is it possible he...
MURPHY: Well, he's...
O'BRIEN: ... he would not prevail if elections were held?
MURPHY: I suppose it is possible. But remember that his popularity, which had been down among the Palestinians -- they had criticized his leadership over the last several years -- went up considerably as long as he was a prisoner of the Israelis in his Ramallah compound.
Now that he's out, he is trying to reestablish his contacts with the Palestinians, get things moving. He has started some of these reforms that Wolf Blitzer mentioned. The -- he has signed off on the independence of judges now. So he's trying to reestablish his leadership directly.
O'BRIEN: Ambassador Murphy, when you talk about Yasser Arafat's leadership style, I get the sense, just watching hit, that it's borderline chaos, the way he runs things. Is that true?
MURPHY: Well, it's been highly personal and highly centralized. He has not allowed any cadre to really come up into a position where they might conceivably challenge him. And he's kept strict controls over -- personal controls over the finances of the Palestine Authority, the project development plans, every aspect he's felt he had to personally be involved in.
And, of course, that's led to the Israeli charges that he is personally responsible for every single act of violence and terrorism committed by the Palestinians.
O'BRIEN: So it's kind of a mix of tyranny and anarchy.
MURPHY: That's not a bad comment.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's move on and talk about the Saudi proposal, because it seems to me until the Arab world gets more fully engaged, nothing's going to change vis-a-vis Yasser Arafat and the Palestinians. What about the Saudi proposal, what about the Arab foreign ministers considering it?
MURPHY: Well, today, in their first meeting in seven weeks since the Arab summit, where the Saudi proposal was adopted by the Arab League, by the Arab world, those foreign ministers are getting together on a follow-up basis to see how it can be promoted.
They are pessimistic, judging by the comments of the Arab League secretary general, Anwar Moussa (ph), that with the present Israeli policies, anything can move. They put the fault entirely on the Israeli side. They are saying any initiative from the Arab side will be based on that initiative, which is of Crown Prince Abdullah, which is return of the land occupied in '67, and in return, get normal relations with the Arab world.
It's a fine offer without any details how to bring it about.
O'BRIEN: Well, but once again, big catch-22 there, the Israelis aren't going to do that, are they?
MURPHY: You know, there are divisions, Miles, within Israel, obviously. It's not a monolithic approach. They're very interested in peace. They have yearned for years for normal relations. But the price is high. It means reversing the -- everything that has developed since the occupation in 1967 of the West Bank and Gaza.
That's going to be very painful to do. The Saudi initiative did not, in fact, call for a detailed -- did not present a detailed plan for withdrawal, and the Saudis have said, Look, we're not in the real estate business. This has to be negotiated between the Israelis, the Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese. So I think there's room to...
O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- it's kind of...
MURPHY: ... move there.
O'BRIEN: ... it's kind of convenient that they're glossing over those details. Those are very important details.
MURPHY: Well, to get something started, I don't see how you can get going without some ambiguity and some room to talk. And the Israelis, even those who were most negative at the beginning about the Saudi initiative, have said, Well, it's a possible beginning point for negotiations.
O'BRIEN: All right. Ambassador Richard Murphy, we're unfortunately going to have to leave it there. We appreciate your insights, as always. Former assistant U.S. secretary of state, Ambassador Murphy is now with the Council on Foreign Relations.
We'll see you again next time.
MURPHY: Thank you.
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