Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Saturday Morning News
Interviews With Marc Ginsberg, Mark Perry
Aired June 22, 2002 - 09:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush is calling on all parties in the Middle East to do everything possible to reject terror. IT was the president's first public response to the Mideast crisis since deciding to hold off unveiling a new blueprint for peace.
Today in Jenin, Palestinians mourn three children killed by Israeli forces in a market yesterday. The Israeli army says the shooting was an error.
Joining us now, a couple of our regular weekend guests, Mark Perry, journalist and author of "A Fire in Zion: The Israeli- Palestinian Search for Peace," and Marc Ginsberg, the former U.S. ambassador to Morocco. Gentlemen, good to have you back. We appreciate it, as always.
MARK PERRY, AUTHOR, "A FIRE IN ZION": Hello, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about this latest incident, where the Israeli Defense Forces apparently had some confusion about curfews, or maybe the confusion was on the other side. Nevertheless, now they're saying, oops, we're sorry.
Mark Perry, does that play in the Palestinian refugee camps? Do they believe that?
PERRY: Frankly, Miles, they don't believe it, and especially after the bus bombing yesterday, the Palestinians are likely to look at this as just a revenge killing.
I don't think that that's accurate. I believe the Israelis when they say, oops. And there was confusion in Jenin yesterday about when the curfew was supposed to be let up, if it was supposed to be let up. And when you're in these West Bank cities and they're under curfew, and I've been there, it's not always announced. You just kind of feel your way through it.
And it's a situation that's fraught with incredible danger on both sides, for Israelis and Palestinians. So it was a terrible tragedy, and it highlights what we have to do in this country to try to get this peace process going again.
O'BRIEN: I guess, Marc Ginsberg, it goes to the issue of the credibility each side presents to the other. Must be at an all-time low, don't you think? MARC GINSBERG, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO MOROCCO: Miles, there's no doubt that the violence is wrecked havoc on whatever trust may have been left, which is all the more reason why both parties keep looking to the United States for direction and leadership, because after 18 months of a cycle of violence where families and children are victims of both the terrorism as well as counterattacks, it's going to take an outside force to try to under -- stop the cycle of violence.
And this is where I think we have to focus all our energies.
O'BRIEN: Mark Perry, let me ask you this. We're expecting some kind of blueprint for peace. Who knows how many blueprints we've seen thus far? But in this context, it happens, as the Israelis are talking very seriously about a reoccupation of the West Bank. That doesn't really set the stage for negotiations, does it?
PERRY: No, it doesn't. And I think that that is why the president -- that and the terrorist attack last week -- is why the president has really postponed his statement.
I think we've invested far too much in this statement. The president alone can't bring these parties back to the table. There have to be confidence-building measures, a lot of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) security. The streets in the West Bank and Gaza and in Israel are boiling with rage.
I think we're likely to be disappointed in what the president has to say. It's going to be another incremental plan, which is probably the best we can do right now until something happens in the Middle East to change the situation.
I'd like the United States to get much more involved. I'd like the president to propose something that is a little bit more substantive. But I do believe we're going to be disappointed.
O'BRIEN: Marc Ginsberg, would you agree with your colleague, Mr. Perry, that the White House, the administration, the U.S., doesn't have a silver bullet here?
GINSBERG: No, I may not. I happen to think that the president's problems are not -- have nothing to do with the violence, but the fact that within his administration they can't seem to come to grips with whether or not they are just trying to temporarily deal with this conflict in order to get to Iraq and to deal with Iraq as a way of -- which is their foremost objective, or whether or not they really want to invest the time and effort to really make the effort that President Clinton did, which is try to resolve the conflict once and for all.
And that's where the dilemma is. I don't think what the president has to say is going to change attitudes on either side. The problem is, because the president's trying to thread the needle between what moderate Arab states want him to say, and that is that he supports a deadline-imposed Palestinian state, and the Israeli government, that feels that terrorism would only be rewarded by declaring a specific deadline for the establishment of a Palestinian state. So the president's speech, if it ever comes to pass, is going to try to walk that fine line between these two particular competing political pressures.
O'BRIEN: All right. We're about out of time. Mark Perry, quick response to that, then we got to go, unfortunately.
PERRY: Well, I actually agree with that. I think that the president's going to try and satisfy both parties, Israelis who want to fight terrorism, Americans who want to fight terrorism, and Arabs who say there has to be a -- the most effective way to do that is to have a Palestinian state.
Very difficult challenge for him. I think that we're in, unfortunately, for more violence.
O'BRIEN: Messrs. Perry and Ginsberg, thanks again. We'll see you again soon.
GINSBERG: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
O'BRIEN: All right, we appreciate your insights as always.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
