Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Saturday Morning News

Manhunt Under Way for Serial Sniper in Maryland

Aired October 05, 2002 - 08:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: And we do begin in Maryland this morning, where there is an intense manhunt underway for a serial killing sniper. Police have now linked four of the six shooting deaths to the same weapon. They're urging the gunman to surrender.
CNN's Kathleen Koch joining us now live from Montgomery County, Maryland with the very latest -- what do we know this morning?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Catherine, the latest breaking news actually came last night when authorities learned through some forensics testing that a 72-year-old man who was shot in northern Washington, D.C. last Thursday night, that he was shot with the very same gun that was used in at least three of the killings here in Montgomery County, Maryland.

Now, that gentleman was standing on a corner in northwest Washington minding his own business, going about, you know, average mundane activities, the corner of Georgia Avenue and Calmea Road (ph), when he was shot directly in the chest and died not long afterwards. And that shooting occurred just about four miles south of where the shootings here in Montgomery, Maryland occurred.

Now, the wild card in all of this is whether or not this killing which occurred then late yesterday afternoon, late Friday afternoon in Fredericksburg, Virginia, is that killing now in some way linked to these now six killings?

What they're finding, at least in the Virginia case, it was a woman alone shopping, loading packages into her van outside of a Michael's crafts store when she was shot in the lower back. The bullet exited her body and police on that scene were able to find a single shell casing and that now is what they're trying to, they're looking at and trying to find out whether or not it's connected.

Now, here with me today is Montgomery County Executive Doug Duncan.

And Mr. Duncan, can you tell us anything about who has that shell casing, what they're looking at, what they may have learned from that?

DOUG DUNCAN, MONTGOMERY COUNTY EXECUTIVE: Well, any evidence they gathered from the Virginia shooting is now in Montgomery County. ATF is doing their analysis to see if the weapon that was used in Virginia was the same weapon that was used in Montgomery County and the District of Columbia. So, ATF has the evidence. It's in Montgomery County and they are going to process that as quick as they can.

KOCH: Do we have any idea as to how quickly they'll know? I mean some of the...

DUNCAN: That, we don't know. It depends on the condition of the evidence that they have, how quickly they can determine whether it was the same weapon or not. And this is their highest priority and they have said this is their highest priority and they're working very hard on it.

KOCH: How are they doing with the bullet fragments on two of the other five shootings here in Montgomery County?

DUNCAN: They are still working on it. The two shootings in the county that we don't have which weapon it was is because the condition of the evidence is very tough. So they're working very hard to try to see if they can do it. They said last night that they might not be able to because they don't have enough of the physical evidence there. They might not be able to say for sure which weapon it came from.

KOCH: But, again, because of the pattern, because of the M.O. in this case, they still believe, though, that the same shooter was responsible for the five in Montgomery?

DUNCAN: They're all, yes. They feel that it's all related here in the County and then we got confirmation that it was in the District. And there are enough similarities in the Virginia shooting that ATF sent investigators down to Virginia. Montgomery County police, our police went down to Virginia to help with the investigation there. And the ATF is now handling the evidence analysis.

KOCH: Now, when it comes to suspects and then this white box truck, what are you looking for? Last night you gave us some very detailed information. Can you tell us about that?

DUNCAN: We have a witness who saw a white box truck fleeing the scene of one of the shootings with two people inside and we have some details on the truck, with some lettering on it, some dark lettering on it, either dark purple or black lettering. The first row of lettering is about six inches high. The second row of lettering is about three inches high. There's some damage to the rear of the truck, as well. And we are asking people to just call us and give us any information on that truck or anything else they think might help. And we've gotten over 500 leads from the public, who have been calling in on our tip line here in the county.

KOCH: Doug Duncan, Montgomery County executive, thank you very much for joining us.

DUNCAN: Thank you.

KOCH: And, so, Catherine, here the manhunt continues as evidence and tips continue to pour in in a county that is right now very frightened and very worried -- back to you.

CALLAWAY: All right, thank you.

That's Kathleen Koch in Maryland.

Thanks, Kathleen -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's talk more about the killings and the forensics trail, the trail in general. For that we turn to Mike Brooks, who looks at matters relating to law enforcement for us. Mike, good to have you with us once again.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good to be here, Miles.

O'BRIEN: First of all, when we talk about this weapon being common to all these incidents, we are talking about the weapon, not the type of weapon, right? The forensics are such that it's almost like a fingerprint when you capture a slug or a cartridge, right?

BROOKS: Exactly. From the fragments that we're getting in, probably, and maybe from some of the other evidence they've gathered now, that Catherine said they've now got a shell casing, from this they can tell even if they have just a little piece and that they, it was able to compare it. In a rifle, a high powered rifle such as what they're, this perpetrator is using, it has lands and grooves. And there are imperfections in the metal from the tooling of the barrel. And it's almost like a fingerprint. So they can go back and say with, you know, specific, say, yes, this came from this particular weapon and it most likely is all the same kind of type, you know, the same type also.

O'BRIEN: All right, so we pretty much can say at this point, at least preliminarily, we're not talking about a copycat situation here. Probably one person based on the information we're getting publicly at least?

BROOKS: Right. And the other thing I find interesting, the first shooting, where no one was injured or killed, was at a Michael's craft store in Wheaton yesterday or on Wednesday. Yesterday's shooting in Spotsylvania Mall happened outside of a Michael's craft store. You know, is there any link or is this a sick copycat?

That's why I think there's enough interest with Montgomery County and with the ATF that they did send investigators down to Spotsylvania to gather as much evidence as they can and bring it back to the ATF lab.

O'BRIEN: So we haven't put that thread together just yet?

BROOKS: Not as of yet.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk, you know, what's interesting about this weapon, morbidly interesting, is that you can be very far away from your target.

BROOKS: Yes. O'BRIEN: And if you're a good shot, we're talking on the order of 500 yards, I'm told. Probably inside that for somebody who's less of a good shot. But that obviously complicates matters and that's why people say they haven't seen anything.

BROOKS: Right. Even with 500 yards, you still have to know what you're doing. Anything outside of 300 yards I think you really have to be a trained marksman to do this.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

BROOKS: But, no, that's exactly right. It's not like someone's walking up to someone right there and then shooting them and it gathers the interest of people around, they look and they see a witness. You know, it didn't happen that way. It's, you know, somebody all of a sudden just dropped, you know, in these cases and they look around and, you know, where is the shot coming from?

O'BRIEN: Yes, well, that's obviously a difficult challenge when you're dealing with this kind of thing. I guess the other thing is when you look at cases that are not solved, murders that are not solved, generally they are the ones where there is no pattern to them or the person doesn't know the other person. There is no obvious motive.

BROOKS: Right. And that's the whole thing, what is the motive? When these first happened, I started thinking well, OK, you know, was it a hate crime? Was it not? You know, now it was, now we've got a white, you know, we've got victims who are white, black, Hispanic, young, old, middle aged. There's no set pattern here. So that's what makes it even more difficult.

O'BRIEN: Yes. Well, I suppose that's probably the worst kind of case that an investigator can get handed. Where do you go? You really have to wait for somebody to drop a dime. That's the old expression. What is it, drop a quarter now? Whatever.

BROOKS: Right, exactly. But what they're doing now, they're looking at it from two, they're trying to set up two profiles. One, a geological profile where they're going to try to find out exactly how far, where the shots came from, to try to draw any evidence they can from that particular -- those locations, and also a psychological profile of, you know, what this demented perpetrator, what, you know, what this person is made of.

O'BRIEN: All right, and just quickly before we get away, do you think it is likely this person will strike again? I know that's utter speculation, but based on profiles you've seen before?

BROOKS: Utter speculation and if the shooting in Spotsylvania County is connected, I would say yes.

O'BRIEN: OK, Mike Brooks, who looks at matters relating to law enforcement for us, as always, good to have you with us. We appreciate it.

BROOKS: Good to be here.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired October 5, 2002 - 08:01   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: And we do begin in Maryland this morning, where there is an intense manhunt underway for a serial killing sniper. Police have now linked four of the six shooting deaths to the same weapon. They're urging the gunman to surrender.
CNN's Kathleen Koch joining us now live from Montgomery County, Maryland with the very latest -- what do we know this morning?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Catherine, the latest breaking news actually came last night when authorities learned through some forensics testing that a 72-year-old man who was shot in northern Washington, D.C. last Thursday night, that he was shot with the very same gun that was used in at least three of the killings here in Montgomery County, Maryland.

Now, that gentleman was standing on a corner in northwest Washington minding his own business, going about, you know, average mundane activities, the corner of Georgia Avenue and Calmea Road (ph), when he was shot directly in the chest and died not long afterwards. And that shooting occurred just about four miles south of where the shootings here in Montgomery, Maryland occurred.

Now, the wild card in all of this is whether or not this killing which occurred then late yesterday afternoon, late Friday afternoon in Fredericksburg, Virginia, is that killing now in some way linked to these now six killings?

What they're finding, at least in the Virginia case, it was a woman alone shopping, loading packages into her van outside of a Michael's crafts store when she was shot in the lower back. The bullet exited her body and police on that scene were able to find a single shell casing and that now is what they're trying to, they're looking at and trying to find out whether or not it's connected.

Now, here with me today is Montgomery County Executive Doug Duncan.

And Mr. Duncan, can you tell us anything about who has that shell casing, what they're looking at, what they may have learned from that?

DOUG DUNCAN, MONTGOMERY COUNTY EXECUTIVE: Well, any evidence they gathered from the Virginia shooting is now in Montgomery County. ATF is doing their analysis to see if the weapon that was used in Virginia was the same weapon that was used in Montgomery County and the District of Columbia. So, ATF has the evidence. It's in Montgomery County and they are going to process that as quick as they can.

KOCH: Do we have any idea as to how quickly they'll know? I mean some of the...

DUNCAN: That, we don't know. It depends on the condition of the evidence that they have, how quickly they can determine whether it was the same weapon or not. And this is their highest priority and they have said this is their highest priority and they're working very hard on it.

KOCH: How are they doing with the bullet fragments on two of the other five shootings here in Montgomery County?

DUNCAN: They are still working on it. The two shootings in the county that we don't have which weapon it was is because the condition of the evidence is very tough. So they're working very hard to try to see if they can do it. They said last night that they might not be able to because they don't have enough of the physical evidence there. They might not be able to say for sure which weapon it came from.

KOCH: But, again, because of the pattern, because of the M.O. in this case, they still believe, though, that the same shooter was responsible for the five in Montgomery?

DUNCAN: They're all, yes. They feel that it's all related here in the County and then we got confirmation that it was in the District. And there are enough similarities in the Virginia shooting that ATF sent investigators down to Virginia. Montgomery County police, our police went down to Virginia to help with the investigation there. And the ATF is now handling the evidence analysis.

KOCH: Now, when it comes to suspects and then this white box truck, what are you looking for? Last night you gave us some very detailed information. Can you tell us about that?

DUNCAN: We have a witness who saw a white box truck fleeing the scene of one of the shootings with two people inside and we have some details on the truck, with some lettering on it, some dark lettering on it, either dark purple or black lettering. The first row of lettering is about six inches high. The second row of lettering is about three inches high. There's some damage to the rear of the truck, as well. And we are asking people to just call us and give us any information on that truck or anything else they think might help. And we've gotten over 500 leads from the public, who have been calling in on our tip line here in the county.

KOCH: Doug Duncan, Montgomery County executive, thank you very much for joining us.

DUNCAN: Thank you.

KOCH: And, so, Catherine, here the manhunt continues as evidence and tips continue to pour in in a county that is right now very frightened and very worried -- back to you.

CALLAWAY: All right, thank you.

That's Kathleen Koch in Maryland.

Thanks, Kathleen -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's talk more about the killings and the forensics trail, the trail in general. For that we turn to Mike Brooks, who looks at matters relating to law enforcement for us. Mike, good to have you with us once again.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good to be here, Miles.

O'BRIEN: First of all, when we talk about this weapon being common to all these incidents, we are talking about the weapon, not the type of weapon, right? The forensics are such that it's almost like a fingerprint when you capture a slug or a cartridge, right?

BROOKS: Exactly. From the fragments that we're getting in, probably, and maybe from some of the other evidence they've gathered now, that Catherine said they've now got a shell casing, from this they can tell even if they have just a little piece and that they, it was able to compare it. In a rifle, a high powered rifle such as what they're, this perpetrator is using, it has lands and grooves. And there are imperfections in the metal from the tooling of the barrel. And it's almost like a fingerprint. So they can go back and say with, you know, specific, say, yes, this came from this particular weapon and it most likely is all the same kind of type, you know, the same type also.

O'BRIEN: All right, so we pretty much can say at this point, at least preliminarily, we're not talking about a copycat situation here. Probably one person based on the information we're getting publicly at least?

BROOKS: Right. And the other thing I find interesting, the first shooting, where no one was injured or killed, was at a Michael's craft store in Wheaton yesterday or on Wednesday. Yesterday's shooting in Spotsylvania Mall happened outside of a Michael's craft store. You know, is there any link or is this a sick copycat?

That's why I think there's enough interest with Montgomery County and with the ATF that they did send investigators down to Spotsylvania to gather as much evidence as they can and bring it back to the ATF lab.

O'BRIEN: So we haven't put that thread together just yet?

BROOKS: Not as of yet.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk, you know, what's interesting about this weapon, morbidly interesting, is that you can be very far away from your target.

BROOKS: Yes. O'BRIEN: And if you're a good shot, we're talking on the order of 500 yards, I'm told. Probably inside that for somebody who's less of a good shot. But that obviously complicates matters and that's why people say they haven't seen anything.

BROOKS: Right. Even with 500 yards, you still have to know what you're doing. Anything outside of 300 yards I think you really have to be a trained marksman to do this.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

BROOKS: But, no, that's exactly right. It's not like someone's walking up to someone right there and then shooting them and it gathers the interest of people around, they look and they see a witness. You know, it didn't happen that way. It's, you know, somebody all of a sudden just dropped, you know, in these cases and they look around and, you know, where is the shot coming from?

O'BRIEN: Yes, well, that's obviously a difficult challenge when you're dealing with this kind of thing. I guess the other thing is when you look at cases that are not solved, murders that are not solved, generally they are the ones where there is no pattern to them or the person doesn't know the other person. There is no obvious motive.

BROOKS: Right. And that's the whole thing, what is the motive? When these first happened, I started thinking well, OK, you know, was it a hate crime? Was it not? You know, now it was, now we've got a white, you know, we've got victims who are white, black, Hispanic, young, old, middle aged. There's no set pattern here. So that's what makes it even more difficult.

O'BRIEN: Yes. Well, I suppose that's probably the worst kind of case that an investigator can get handed. Where do you go? You really have to wait for somebody to drop a dime. That's the old expression. What is it, drop a quarter now? Whatever.

BROOKS: Right, exactly. But what they're doing now, they're looking at it from two, they're trying to set up two profiles. One, a geological profile where they're going to try to find out exactly how far, where the shots came from, to try to draw any evidence they can from that particular -- those locations, and also a psychological profile of, you know, what this demented perpetrator, what, you know, what this person is made of.

O'BRIEN: All right, and just quickly before we get away, do you think it is likely this person will strike again? I know that's utter speculation, but based on profiles you've seen before?

BROOKS: Utter speculation and if the shooting in Spotsylvania County is connected, I would say yes.

O'BRIEN: OK, Mike Brooks, who looks at matters relating to law enforcement for us, as always, good to have you with us. We appreciate it.

BROOKS: Good to be here.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com