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CNN Saturday Morning News

Experts Analyze Letter Left by Snipers at Ashland Shooting

Aired October 26, 2002 - 08:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And we begin this hour with the sniper case. Charges have now been filed against the two suspects in the sniper killing spree that claimed 10 lives and wounded three others. John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo are charged with first degree murder in six killings that took place in Montgomery County, Maryland.
Also, CNN has obtained a copy of the handwritten letter left at the scene of the Ponderosa shooting.

With all the details, we go to our Carol Lin, who is live in Montgomery County this morning -- tell us about this letter. It's chilling, isn't it?

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: It certainly is, and chocked full of clues for investigators. A very interesting point there, Carol. It is three pages long, neatly handwritten, some grammatical errors, but a detailed diatribe against the investigators who apparently did not take calls by the snipers seriously, as well as a detailed demand for $10 million.

I want to read you a portion of the letter we received here. These are the words of the sniper. "We have tried to contact you to start negotiation. These people took of call for a hoax or joke, so your failure to respond has cost you five lives. If stopping the killing is more important than catching us now, then you will accept our demand, which are non-negotiable. Try to catch us withdrawing. At least you will have less body bags. But if trying to catch us now more important, then prepare you body bags. If we give you our word, that is what takes place. Word is bond."

Also, Carol, detailed descriptions, angry descriptions of specifically six telephone calls to investigators which were not taken. Apparently the sniper was saying they were hung up on.

Also, so much detail in there about the police officer's name who actually handled the call, the telephone number which they dialed. They also claimed that they dialed the CNN's Washington bureau number, but our response to that is as a corporation, a CNN spokesperson saying to our knowledge no one at CNN received such a call.

But, again, this letter chock full of clues provided by the snipers to investigators.

I want to bring in our CNN security analyst, Kelly McCann, and Casey Jordan, the CNN criminologist, to talk a little bit more about the letter itself. Good morning.

J. KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Carol.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.

LIN: Good to see you.

I'm wondering, now that you've had a chance to see the text of the letter, Casey, do you know who wrote the letter? Would it be John Malvo, the younger one, or John Muhammad, the older man?

JORDAN: Well, based on initial reports, it would seem as if it might be the younger Malvo who would have written it, based, of course, on his, reports of his Jamaican heritage and failure to complete school. But I can say, and I'm not trying to be cute, I've had college compositions written in such poor English by people with high school educations. So we certainly should not rule out the idea that Mr. Muhammad wrote the letter or that it was written to be a little misleading in its wording so that we could not precisely detect who the author was.

LIN: Really? Do you think both men character have actually participated then, but that the younger one was maybe the chief author of the letter?

JORDAN: I have a hunch, this is only a guess work, but I have a feeling Mr. Muhammad was dictating it and Mr. Malvo was writing it. It was probably a collaborative effort.

LIN: Hmmm. Kelly, I'm just wondering, as you hear the text of the letter, does this confirm in your mind that money, in fact, was the motive in this case?

MCCANN: Oh, I think that coupled with their lifestyle and perhaps attempting to gain favor in some subversive group's eyes, sure. I think it definitely points that way, Carol.

LIN: So money would be the motive, and not just playing with the officers' minds. For example, in one portion of this letter it says that the demands are non-negotiable. They talk about withdrawing and once withdrawing that they would see fewer body bags.

Do you believe that they would be willing to stop the killing if they were to get that $10 million demand they were making?

MCCANN: I mean, no one's had the crystal ball on this thing, you know, and it's hard to tell. But one thing is for sure, which is, you know, sometimes the simplest answer is standing right in front of you, Akum's razor (ph). And in respect to money, in all the profiling, in all the kind of interpretation that went on, I think that you're going to some an amalgamation of profiles with these guys. I think there's a criminal element. I think that there's an insanity element and I think that there quite feasibly is a terroristic element.

LIN: A terroristic element? Casey, what I don't understand, though, is why so many clues? I mean not only all the telephone numbers they called, but they named, they named a visa card when they were trying to set up this ATM account. They named a stolen visa card, the name of the owners on the visa card, all 16 digits, the secret password. They named the police officers they talked to on the telephone. They named a Virginia priest whom they apparently called about the Montgomery, Alabama killing.

Why would a killer put so many clues in a single piece of evidence, so much so that it would lead investigators almost to their front doorstep?

JORDAN: Because, in my estimation, they fell prey to their own arrogance the more people that they killed successfully and got away. And even people who have looked at this amazingly engineered shooting machine in the back of the car, you know, how they came up with this idea of shooting through holes in the trunk, have to admit that the simplicity of it was brilliant.

I'm sure to them they thought they were the most brilliant things on the planet. And when egos get that big and inflated, it's very easy for people to start playing a game of one-upmanship with the police and trying to show off how successful they are, how smart they are, how incredibly clever they are.

They are so interested in patting themselves on the back that they become disingenuous, almost ridiculously idiotic in terms of how many clues they're giving out. Truly, they didn't believe they would ever be caught.

LIN: Right. And truly could they really, really believe that they were going to get $10 from authorities?

JORDAN: No, this is, it's kind of a game of self-brainwashing. I think that they almost brainwashed themselves into believing they were so omnipotent, that this was foolproof. After all, look at what they had accomplished and no one seemed to be getting close to them. In plain view they were practically hiding.

So you have people who are smart in some respects. There are people who are street smart...

MCCANN: Absolutely.

JORDAN: There are people who are people smart and militaristically, strategically smart, but certainly not a form of intelligence that would show them that laying low, being quiet, never communicating was their one hope of getting away.

LIN: Yes, but Kelly McCann, they were smart enough to get away with, or at least for a while, smart enough to stay away from authorities long enough to shoot 13 times, killing 10 people. And taking a look at this "Washington Post" headline this morning, police checked the suspects' plates at least 10 times during the times of the shootings.

MCCANN: Exactly. LIN: And one critical moment, it was just hours before in early October, before four people were shot and killed here in Montgomery County that they were actually stopped by a police officer, but because the Caprice was not a high profile vehicle because so much focus was on the white van or a cream colored Toyota, that this police officer let them go.

MCCANN: Hey, Carol, you know, it's kind of funny, the -- a forensic scientist at the NYU School of Medicine said that the cunning of these people was substantially overstated. You know, I tell you what, you go ask Williams what a gerund (ph) is or what syntax is, he won't be able to tell you. Ask him what a primary explosive is and what its relationship to a secondary explosive is, because he's a combat engineer, he'll tell you. Ask him what the characteristics of a sound suppressor for a supersonic round out of a rifle, he'll tell you.

You know, intelligence is relevant to your existence. And so many times the 500 pound brains roll out all kinds of vaunted theories without having ever firsthand experience with the criminal element or in the criminal world. And that's the fault. The problem is that these guys were good enough, weren't they?

LIN: They certainly were, at least for a while. But dumb enough to give the officers and investigators the clues they needed to track them down asleep in their car.

MCCANN: There you go.

LIN: And now they're being investigated for a series of crimes across the country. So who knows where this prosecution is going to end?

Thank you very much, Kelly McCann, CNN security analyst, and Casey Jordan, our CNN criminologist, for joining us this morning.

JORDAN: Thank you, Carol.

MCCANN: You bet, Carol.

LIN: Miles, Carol, we're going to have much more on the complex prosecution of this case, as well as potential additional charges, throughout the morning.

But I'm going to send it back to you, from Montgomery County.

COSTELLO: We thought things would slow down, but no.

O'BRIEN: That's right. No.

COSTELLO: They're just speeding up again.

Thank you, Carol.

O'BRIEN: It just enters a new phase, doesn't it?

COSTELLO: Yes, it does.

We want to know what you think about the media coverage of the sniper story. Kelly, Casey and Carol Lin will be along next hour for our reporter's notebook. Go ahead and e-mail your questions to wam@cnn.com.

O'BRIEN: And we should tell you, it's not just the media. They'll handle all manner of questions for you relating to media and just specific questions you might have about the case in general.

We also have a pair of experts on specifically the media issue, which will be fielding some of that, as well. So if you have questions on all aspects of this case, we invite you to send them in. And, my goodness, you already have. The e-mail box overfloweth here. And we appreciate that.

COSTELLO: Yes, we do.

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much. We have heard from you. We know how you feel now about the media.

COSTELLO: Oh, boy.

O'BRIEN: Later this morning, People In the News takes an in depth look at the sniper suspects, John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo. And, folks, we're calling him Lee now. That's not because we're half asleep this morning. He was John Lee and then it turns out tracing his birth certificate it is Lee Boyd Malvo. So that's why we're doing it.

COSTELLO: It makes you wonder where he adopted the name John and where that came from, doesn't it?

O'BRIEN: Oh, that it does.

COSTELLO: I'm sure you can draw your own conclusions so I won't speculate.

O'BRIEN: You go there yourself, 11:00 a.m. Eastern, 8:00

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Shooting>


Aired October 26, 2002 - 08:02   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And we begin this hour with the sniper case. Charges have now been filed against the two suspects in the sniper killing spree that claimed 10 lives and wounded three others. John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo are charged with first degree murder in six killings that took place in Montgomery County, Maryland.
Also, CNN has obtained a copy of the handwritten letter left at the scene of the Ponderosa shooting.

With all the details, we go to our Carol Lin, who is live in Montgomery County this morning -- tell us about this letter. It's chilling, isn't it?

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: It certainly is, and chocked full of clues for investigators. A very interesting point there, Carol. It is three pages long, neatly handwritten, some grammatical errors, but a detailed diatribe against the investigators who apparently did not take calls by the snipers seriously, as well as a detailed demand for $10 million.

I want to read you a portion of the letter we received here. These are the words of the sniper. "We have tried to contact you to start negotiation. These people took of call for a hoax or joke, so your failure to respond has cost you five lives. If stopping the killing is more important than catching us now, then you will accept our demand, which are non-negotiable. Try to catch us withdrawing. At least you will have less body bags. But if trying to catch us now more important, then prepare you body bags. If we give you our word, that is what takes place. Word is bond."

Also, Carol, detailed descriptions, angry descriptions of specifically six telephone calls to investigators which were not taken. Apparently the sniper was saying they were hung up on.

Also, so much detail in there about the police officer's name who actually handled the call, the telephone number which they dialed. They also claimed that they dialed the CNN's Washington bureau number, but our response to that is as a corporation, a CNN spokesperson saying to our knowledge no one at CNN received such a call.

But, again, this letter chock full of clues provided by the snipers to investigators.

I want to bring in our CNN security analyst, Kelly McCann, and Casey Jordan, the CNN criminologist, to talk a little bit more about the letter itself. Good morning.

J. KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Carol.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.

LIN: Good to see you.

I'm wondering, now that you've had a chance to see the text of the letter, Casey, do you know who wrote the letter? Would it be John Malvo, the younger one, or John Muhammad, the older man?

JORDAN: Well, based on initial reports, it would seem as if it might be the younger Malvo who would have written it, based, of course, on his, reports of his Jamaican heritage and failure to complete school. But I can say, and I'm not trying to be cute, I've had college compositions written in such poor English by people with high school educations. So we certainly should not rule out the idea that Mr. Muhammad wrote the letter or that it was written to be a little misleading in its wording so that we could not precisely detect who the author was.

LIN: Really? Do you think both men character have actually participated then, but that the younger one was maybe the chief author of the letter?

JORDAN: I have a hunch, this is only a guess work, but I have a feeling Mr. Muhammad was dictating it and Mr. Malvo was writing it. It was probably a collaborative effort.

LIN: Hmmm. Kelly, I'm just wondering, as you hear the text of the letter, does this confirm in your mind that money, in fact, was the motive in this case?

MCCANN: Oh, I think that coupled with their lifestyle and perhaps attempting to gain favor in some subversive group's eyes, sure. I think it definitely points that way, Carol.

LIN: So money would be the motive, and not just playing with the officers' minds. For example, in one portion of this letter it says that the demands are non-negotiable. They talk about withdrawing and once withdrawing that they would see fewer body bags.

Do you believe that they would be willing to stop the killing if they were to get that $10 million demand they were making?

MCCANN: I mean, no one's had the crystal ball on this thing, you know, and it's hard to tell. But one thing is for sure, which is, you know, sometimes the simplest answer is standing right in front of you, Akum's razor (ph). And in respect to money, in all the profiling, in all the kind of interpretation that went on, I think that you're going to some an amalgamation of profiles with these guys. I think there's a criminal element. I think that there's an insanity element and I think that there quite feasibly is a terroristic element.

LIN: A terroristic element? Casey, what I don't understand, though, is why so many clues? I mean not only all the telephone numbers they called, but they named, they named a visa card when they were trying to set up this ATM account. They named a stolen visa card, the name of the owners on the visa card, all 16 digits, the secret password. They named the police officers they talked to on the telephone. They named a Virginia priest whom they apparently called about the Montgomery, Alabama killing.

Why would a killer put so many clues in a single piece of evidence, so much so that it would lead investigators almost to their front doorstep?

JORDAN: Because, in my estimation, they fell prey to their own arrogance the more people that they killed successfully and got away. And even people who have looked at this amazingly engineered shooting machine in the back of the car, you know, how they came up with this idea of shooting through holes in the trunk, have to admit that the simplicity of it was brilliant.

I'm sure to them they thought they were the most brilliant things on the planet. And when egos get that big and inflated, it's very easy for people to start playing a game of one-upmanship with the police and trying to show off how successful they are, how smart they are, how incredibly clever they are.

They are so interested in patting themselves on the back that they become disingenuous, almost ridiculously idiotic in terms of how many clues they're giving out. Truly, they didn't believe they would ever be caught.

LIN: Right. And truly could they really, really believe that they were going to get $10 from authorities?

JORDAN: No, this is, it's kind of a game of self-brainwashing. I think that they almost brainwashed themselves into believing they were so omnipotent, that this was foolproof. After all, look at what they had accomplished and no one seemed to be getting close to them. In plain view they were practically hiding.

So you have people who are smart in some respects. There are people who are street smart...

MCCANN: Absolutely.

JORDAN: There are people who are people smart and militaristically, strategically smart, but certainly not a form of intelligence that would show them that laying low, being quiet, never communicating was their one hope of getting away.

LIN: Yes, but Kelly McCann, they were smart enough to get away with, or at least for a while, smart enough to stay away from authorities long enough to shoot 13 times, killing 10 people. And taking a look at this "Washington Post" headline this morning, police checked the suspects' plates at least 10 times during the times of the shootings.

MCCANN: Exactly. LIN: And one critical moment, it was just hours before in early October, before four people were shot and killed here in Montgomery County that they were actually stopped by a police officer, but because the Caprice was not a high profile vehicle because so much focus was on the white van or a cream colored Toyota, that this police officer let them go.

MCCANN: Hey, Carol, you know, it's kind of funny, the -- a forensic scientist at the NYU School of Medicine said that the cunning of these people was substantially overstated. You know, I tell you what, you go ask Williams what a gerund (ph) is or what syntax is, he won't be able to tell you. Ask him what a primary explosive is and what its relationship to a secondary explosive is, because he's a combat engineer, he'll tell you. Ask him what the characteristics of a sound suppressor for a supersonic round out of a rifle, he'll tell you.

You know, intelligence is relevant to your existence. And so many times the 500 pound brains roll out all kinds of vaunted theories without having ever firsthand experience with the criminal element or in the criminal world. And that's the fault. The problem is that these guys were good enough, weren't they?

LIN: They certainly were, at least for a while. But dumb enough to give the officers and investigators the clues they needed to track them down asleep in their car.

MCCANN: There you go.

LIN: And now they're being investigated for a series of crimes across the country. So who knows where this prosecution is going to end?

Thank you very much, Kelly McCann, CNN security analyst, and Casey Jordan, our CNN criminologist, for joining us this morning.

JORDAN: Thank you, Carol.

MCCANN: You bet, Carol.

LIN: Miles, Carol, we're going to have much more on the complex prosecution of this case, as well as potential additional charges, throughout the morning.

But I'm going to send it back to you, from Montgomery County.

COSTELLO: We thought things would slow down, but no.

O'BRIEN: That's right. No.

COSTELLO: They're just speeding up again.

Thank you, Carol.

O'BRIEN: It just enters a new phase, doesn't it?

COSTELLO: Yes, it does.

We want to know what you think about the media coverage of the sniper story. Kelly, Casey and Carol Lin will be along next hour for our reporter's notebook. Go ahead and e-mail your questions to wam@cnn.com.

O'BRIEN: And we should tell you, it's not just the media. They'll handle all manner of questions for you relating to media and just specific questions you might have about the case in general.

We also have a pair of experts on specifically the media issue, which will be fielding some of that, as well. So if you have questions on all aspects of this case, we invite you to send them in. And, my goodness, you already have. The e-mail box overfloweth here. And we appreciate that.

COSTELLO: Yes, we do.

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much. We have heard from you. We know how you feel now about the media.

COSTELLO: Oh, boy.

O'BRIEN: Later this morning, People In the News takes an in depth look at the sniper suspects, John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo. And, folks, we're calling him Lee now. That's not because we're half asleep this morning. He was John Lee and then it turns out tracing his birth certificate it is Lee Boyd Malvo. So that's why we're doing it.

COSTELLO: It makes you wonder where he adopted the name John and where that came from, doesn't it?

O'BRIEN: Oh, that it does.

COSTELLO: I'm sure you can draw your own conclusions so I won't speculate.

O'BRIEN: You go there yourself, 11:00 a.m. Eastern, 8:00

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Shooting>