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CNN Saturday Morning News

Weather, Transportation Officials Investigate Wellstone Crash

Aired October 26, 2002 - 09:10   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Federal investigators are combing a wooded area in Eveleth, Minnesota, for clues to the cause of the plane crash that killed Senator Paul Wellstone. Also on board the private plane, Wellstone's wife and daughter and five others.
Joining us now from Eveleth with more on the investigation is Trish Volpe with our affiliate KDLH.

Trish, the NTSB wasn't offering up too much information. They're on their way to the scene. Have they left, first of all, for the inaccessible site?

TRISH VOLPE, KDLH/EVELETH, MINNESOTA: Investigators have not yet left this morning for the crash scene, but they are expected to get there a little bit later this morning. The National Transportation Safety Board is here, the FBI, as well as local authorities.

What they will be looking for first and foremost is the voice recorder, the cockpit voice recorder. That will really be key in determining what caused this plane crash, helping investigators piece together the final moments before the crash.

Investigators will also look at radar tapes and weather information from the type of the accident. But NTSB officials have had some trouble getting to the crash site.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL CARMODY, ACTING CHAIR, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: It's a very, very difficult area in terms of terrain. We had to go out in twos and threes, using alternative-terrain vehicles sort of like tractors. It's very marshy, it's very difficult to walk.

We got a preliminary look at wreckage. We were looking, of course, primarily for the cockpit voice recorder, which we did not find last night. We're going to resume looking this morning first thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VOLPE: Senator Wellstone, his family, and three office aides were headed to a funeral in Eveleth. The local sheriff says that the plane was moments away from the runway when it crashed. Once again, NTSB investigators will be headed to the crash site this morning to continue their search for answers, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Trish Volpe with our affiliate KDLH, thank you very much for being with us, we appreciate it.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And we want to talk more about the weather in Minnesota, because, of course, it may have affected the plane itself and it may have been one of the causes for the crash, I guess.

O'BRIEN: Yes, low ceilings, low visibility, some freezing rain, known icing conditions. Not a good day for flying.

COSTELLO: No. Galen Crader, can you tell us more about the weather there and what it's like now?

GALEN CRADER, CNN WEATHER: Well, what I can tell you now is that the radar picture is very, very quiet. Very settled, as a matter of fact. There's not a whole lot going on in the way of precipitation. But I think the satellite picture might tell you that there's still some cloud cover in this area.

In fact, I'm going back a day to the actual time of the crash and when we think it happened to show you what conditions were like then. Again, not a great deal of rain. I've put this on top of the radar picture as well. But the cloud cover, I think it's safe to say the visibility from 3,000 up until about 20,000 feet certainly very, very poor. And sometimes that is enough, if you're not a terribly experienced pilot in terms of instrument flying.

That type of visibility can really tend to confuse you and get things very messed up for you, which is a chance that that is what happened. But, of course, that's to be seen.

Now, here's a little push-in on the particular area here. Again, quiet conditions right now on the radar. A little bit of snow to the north of that. A little rain to the south. But all in all, around the search area, things look pretty good. And but that's really not going to be the case into Sunday. Some more inclement weather headed their way.

And I'll have your more complete forecast a little later on in this hour, but for now, let's go back to Miles and Ms. Costello.

COSTELLO: All right, thank you very much, Galen.

O'BRIEN: All right. Worth pointing out, though, that the captain of that flight was an air transport pilot. That means...

COSTELLO: Very experienced, yes.

O'BRIEN: ... he would have been qualified to fly an airliner, very experienced, and they still were right at minimums. It was not illegal for them to engage in that approach. So we'll just leave that caveat out there before we press on.

A team from the National Transportation Safety Board is in Eveleth, Minnesota. They are on the way to the scene of the plane crash that killed Senator Paul Wellstone and seven others as soon as day breaks there. What will they be looking for as they begin their investigation?

To give us some insight, the former vice chairman of the NTSB, Bob Francis, is joining us from Washington.

Mr. Francis, good to see you again.

ROBERT FRANCIS, FORMER VICE CHAIR, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: Good to be back.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the cockpit voice recorder. Yesterday we had a conversation, and I ,said according to some specs I saw, a cockpit recorder might very well be on there. You've heard some conflicting information. Miss Carmody, who is the acting chair now of the NTSB, says they have reason to believe there is a cockpit voice recorder.

What -- I guess the question I have for you is, how crucial a piece of the puzzle might that be?

FRANCIS: It could be extraordinarily helpful, particularly given the circumstances, the weather, the kinds of things that might have caused the accident. If you had discussion between the two pilots on issues of loss of control or were having trouble seeing the ground or whatever, that could be a big help.

At the same time, as you and I have discussed, I think there may be a recorder on there, and actually, recorders for commercial aircraft like this, for charters, when I was at the safety board, we made recommendations that the FAA require them.

So it's a great thing if it is on there. It's just that, you know, the aircraft was not delivered with one originally. Is it possible somebody put one in the 20-plus years that that airplane has been flying? Yes. Is it likely? I would think a little unlikely.

O'BRIEN: I -- see, I thought -- and we should, we got to do some more homework on this -- but I thought above a certain weight, and this plane was about 12,000 pounds, that they were supposed to be retrofitted in. But I don't know if you know that chapter and verse. We probably should need to check it out.

FRANCIS: That was the thing that we made the recommendation on three, four years ago.

O'BRIEN: OK. Let's step back for a minute, though, CDR (ph) or not, and look at the possible scenarios and what the crash team will be doing today. As you approach a scene like this, what goes -- what's -- systematically, and it is very systematic, Bob Benson and this team, what will they be doing today in the initial stages?

FRANCIS: Well, first thing I would say is, and I told you yesterday, Bob is the best the NTSB has got as an investigator. They will have, if they didn't have it last night, an organizational meeting where they will get everyone together, the airport people, presumably folks from the FAA -- well, FAA folks, they'll be interested in air traffic, the manufacturer of the airplane will presumably by now have someone there, the company.

So they'll all get together and organize, and there will be different groups set up for the aircraft, for systems, for air traffic control, for power plants, certainly for weather, very important group for this accident, for airports. And there will be representatives on those groups of each of the parties, and they will go forth and look for evidence in these different areas.

Probably -- maybe one from maintenance, also.

O'BRIEN: Now, you have been involved in some cases which remain open to discussion to this day, and there are many other cases which get solved very quickly. Do most of them -- is it one of those things where investigators get to the scene and they can sort of coalesce around a conclusion in a very short period of time? Is that accurate to say?

FRANCIS: I think in this -- certainly in the vast majority, that is the case. And I would think in this case that they will -- they will have a pretty good idea within -- well, I hate to guess, a couple of days, three days. You're never certain, but this kind of accident, particularly with the weather situation, I think that it will not be one of those that's a puzzle two months from now.

O'BRIEN: All right. And just to give us a sense, very quickly, if in fact icing were a cause here, and there were not a cockpit voice recorder or air traffic control communications that would lead one to believe icing was an issue, how might investigators determine that icing would have been a problem?

FRANCIS: Well, they -- whether the -- whether looking at the aircraft now will help or not, they certainly know the kinds of conditions that would be -- that would be conducive to icing. I would assume that there will be at that airport some kind of weather information. And then they start looking at the wreckage, and they'll be able to tell how the aircraft hit the ground.

And that will be indicative of -- if there is no mechanical reason for an aircraft, for instance, to hit 90 degrees down on its right wing, the chances are that they will be able to conclude that that was some kind of contamination on the wing or contamination of the controls.

O'BRIEN: That's kind of a grim case of putting the pieces together, quite literally. All right.

FRANCIS: Absolutely. But these guys are very, very good at that.

O'BRIEN: They are the best. Bob Francis, former vice chair of the NTSB. As always, we appreciate your insights in these situations.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Crash>


Aired October 26, 2002 - 09:10   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Federal investigators are combing a wooded area in Eveleth, Minnesota, for clues to the cause of the plane crash that killed Senator Paul Wellstone. Also on board the private plane, Wellstone's wife and daughter and five others.
Joining us now from Eveleth with more on the investigation is Trish Volpe with our affiliate KDLH.

Trish, the NTSB wasn't offering up too much information. They're on their way to the scene. Have they left, first of all, for the inaccessible site?

TRISH VOLPE, KDLH/EVELETH, MINNESOTA: Investigators have not yet left this morning for the crash scene, but they are expected to get there a little bit later this morning. The National Transportation Safety Board is here, the FBI, as well as local authorities.

What they will be looking for first and foremost is the voice recorder, the cockpit voice recorder. That will really be key in determining what caused this plane crash, helping investigators piece together the final moments before the crash.

Investigators will also look at radar tapes and weather information from the type of the accident. But NTSB officials have had some trouble getting to the crash site.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL CARMODY, ACTING CHAIR, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: It's a very, very difficult area in terms of terrain. We had to go out in twos and threes, using alternative-terrain vehicles sort of like tractors. It's very marshy, it's very difficult to walk.

We got a preliminary look at wreckage. We were looking, of course, primarily for the cockpit voice recorder, which we did not find last night. We're going to resume looking this morning first thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VOLPE: Senator Wellstone, his family, and three office aides were headed to a funeral in Eveleth. The local sheriff says that the plane was moments away from the runway when it crashed. Once again, NTSB investigators will be headed to the crash site this morning to continue their search for answers, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Trish Volpe with our affiliate KDLH, thank you very much for being with us, we appreciate it.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And we want to talk more about the weather in Minnesota, because, of course, it may have affected the plane itself and it may have been one of the causes for the crash, I guess.

O'BRIEN: Yes, low ceilings, low visibility, some freezing rain, known icing conditions. Not a good day for flying.

COSTELLO: No. Galen Crader, can you tell us more about the weather there and what it's like now?

GALEN CRADER, CNN WEATHER: Well, what I can tell you now is that the radar picture is very, very quiet. Very settled, as a matter of fact. There's not a whole lot going on in the way of precipitation. But I think the satellite picture might tell you that there's still some cloud cover in this area.

In fact, I'm going back a day to the actual time of the crash and when we think it happened to show you what conditions were like then. Again, not a great deal of rain. I've put this on top of the radar picture as well. But the cloud cover, I think it's safe to say the visibility from 3,000 up until about 20,000 feet certainly very, very poor. And sometimes that is enough, if you're not a terribly experienced pilot in terms of instrument flying.

That type of visibility can really tend to confuse you and get things very messed up for you, which is a chance that that is what happened. But, of course, that's to be seen.

Now, here's a little push-in on the particular area here. Again, quiet conditions right now on the radar. A little bit of snow to the north of that. A little rain to the south. But all in all, around the search area, things look pretty good. And but that's really not going to be the case into Sunday. Some more inclement weather headed their way.

And I'll have your more complete forecast a little later on in this hour, but for now, let's go back to Miles and Ms. Costello.

COSTELLO: All right, thank you very much, Galen.

O'BRIEN: All right. Worth pointing out, though, that the captain of that flight was an air transport pilot. That means...

COSTELLO: Very experienced, yes.

O'BRIEN: ... he would have been qualified to fly an airliner, very experienced, and they still were right at minimums. It was not illegal for them to engage in that approach. So we'll just leave that caveat out there before we press on.

A team from the National Transportation Safety Board is in Eveleth, Minnesota. They are on the way to the scene of the plane crash that killed Senator Paul Wellstone and seven others as soon as day breaks there. What will they be looking for as they begin their investigation?

To give us some insight, the former vice chairman of the NTSB, Bob Francis, is joining us from Washington.

Mr. Francis, good to see you again.

ROBERT FRANCIS, FORMER VICE CHAIR, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: Good to be back.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the cockpit voice recorder. Yesterday we had a conversation, and I ,said according to some specs I saw, a cockpit recorder might very well be on there. You've heard some conflicting information. Miss Carmody, who is the acting chair now of the NTSB, says they have reason to believe there is a cockpit voice recorder.

What -- I guess the question I have for you is, how crucial a piece of the puzzle might that be?

FRANCIS: It could be extraordinarily helpful, particularly given the circumstances, the weather, the kinds of things that might have caused the accident. If you had discussion between the two pilots on issues of loss of control or were having trouble seeing the ground or whatever, that could be a big help.

At the same time, as you and I have discussed, I think there may be a recorder on there, and actually, recorders for commercial aircraft like this, for charters, when I was at the safety board, we made recommendations that the FAA require them.

So it's a great thing if it is on there. It's just that, you know, the aircraft was not delivered with one originally. Is it possible somebody put one in the 20-plus years that that airplane has been flying? Yes. Is it likely? I would think a little unlikely.

O'BRIEN: I -- see, I thought -- and we should, we got to do some more homework on this -- but I thought above a certain weight, and this plane was about 12,000 pounds, that they were supposed to be retrofitted in. But I don't know if you know that chapter and verse. We probably should need to check it out.

FRANCIS: That was the thing that we made the recommendation on three, four years ago.

O'BRIEN: OK. Let's step back for a minute, though, CDR (ph) or not, and look at the possible scenarios and what the crash team will be doing today. As you approach a scene like this, what goes -- what's -- systematically, and it is very systematic, Bob Benson and this team, what will they be doing today in the initial stages?

FRANCIS: Well, first thing I would say is, and I told you yesterday, Bob is the best the NTSB has got as an investigator. They will have, if they didn't have it last night, an organizational meeting where they will get everyone together, the airport people, presumably folks from the FAA -- well, FAA folks, they'll be interested in air traffic, the manufacturer of the airplane will presumably by now have someone there, the company.

So they'll all get together and organize, and there will be different groups set up for the aircraft, for systems, for air traffic control, for power plants, certainly for weather, very important group for this accident, for airports. And there will be representatives on those groups of each of the parties, and they will go forth and look for evidence in these different areas.

Probably -- maybe one from maintenance, also.

O'BRIEN: Now, you have been involved in some cases which remain open to discussion to this day, and there are many other cases which get solved very quickly. Do most of them -- is it one of those things where investigators get to the scene and they can sort of coalesce around a conclusion in a very short period of time? Is that accurate to say?

FRANCIS: I think in this -- certainly in the vast majority, that is the case. And I would think in this case that they will -- they will have a pretty good idea within -- well, I hate to guess, a couple of days, three days. You're never certain, but this kind of accident, particularly with the weather situation, I think that it will not be one of those that's a puzzle two months from now.

O'BRIEN: All right. And just to give us a sense, very quickly, if in fact icing were a cause here, and there were not a cockpit voice recorder or air traffic control communications that would lead one to believe icing was an issue, how might investigators determine that icing would have been a problem?

FRANCIS: Well, they -- whether the -- whether looking at the aircraft now will help or not, they certainly know the kinds of conditions that would be -- that would be conducive to icing. I would assume that there will be at that airport some kind of weather information. And then they start looking at the wreckage, and they'll be able to tell how the aircraft hit the ground.

And that will be indicative of -- if there is no mechanical reason for an aircraft, for instance, to hit 90 degrees down on its right wing, the chances are that they will be able to conclude that that was some kind of contamination on the wing or contamination of the controls.

O'BRIEN: That's kind of a grim case of putting the pieces together, quite literally. All right.

FRANCIS: Absolutely. But these guys are very, very good at that.

O'BRIEN: They are the best. Bob Francis, former vice chair of the NTSB. As always, we appreciate your insights in these situations.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Crash>