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CNN Saturday Morning News

Reporter's Notebook: Sniper Shootings

Aired October 26, 2002 - 09:34   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: We've been talking about the sniper attacks and arrests all morning long.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now it is time for our panel to take your e-mail questions. They have anxiously been awaiting this, as have we. The phone number, as we've told you, is 800-807-2620.

COSTELLO: And here to field your questions, CNN security analyst Kelly McCann, who's in Washington, CNN criminologist Casey Jordan in New York, and from Montgomery County, Maryland, CNN's Carol Lin.

O'BRIEN: Welcome to you all.

Let's begin with Kelly and an e-mail, actually a pair of related e-mails. The first one is, "Is a discernible motive emerging in the D.C. sniper killings?" That from our veteran e-mailer, Dale Friesen in Burnaby. And, "Has CNN verified reports that John Allen Mohammed was a member of a militant black Islam Farrakhan group as a bodyguard to Farrakhan and a part of their security force?" That one from A. Schimmer at aol.com.

Kelly?

KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: As far as motive goes, I'll defer, other than the obvious, money, to Casey. But the second one, there is information existing that says that he provided security at the Million Man March here in D.C. Now, what, in what capacity, whether he was just there to provide en route security, in other words, at the periphery of the event, or whether, in fact, he was actually protecting Louis Farrakhan, which I cannot believe, because he has an existing protective detail that is very, very unlikely to have changed just to include him.

I wouldn't know.

O'BRIEN: All right. They call it the Fruit of Islam, I believe.

Do we have a question on the phone?

COSTELLO: Do we have Arch on the phone from Canada?

CALLER: Yes, you do.

COSTELLO: Arch, take it away. What's your question?

CALLER: Yes, I have a question for any member of your panel. In view of the fact that it's alleged one of the snipers phoned in the lead that led the authorities to them, is he, in fact, now eligible for any part of the reward?

COSTELLO: Who wants to take that one?

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that part of the reward process is that it's actually -- the task force itself, which is going to be making the bulk of the decisions, what they're going to do is, they're going to review -- that's an -- actually, an interesting question. They're going to review the body of evidence, and basically the criteria is that they're going to look at who provided the best evidence.

Once they've put together a timeline of the events, so they're putting a timeline together to see where these two suspects were in relation to the shootings, they're going to look at the body of evidence and each every and every individual location, and then whichever caller provided the best body of evidence.

So that's an interesting question, but I think it's highly unlikely that the task force that actually was hunting down these two men would actually provide them with $500,000 in cash.

(CROSSTALK)

CASEY JORDAN, CNN CRIMINOLOGIST: ... yes, and Carol, Carol... isn't the truck driver eligible for some of the reward money? The truck driver who spotted the car at that rest stop?

LIN: Yes, actually there were three critical calls in this case. The truck driver who actually spotted these two -- the blue Chevy Caprice at that rest stop outside of Frederick, Maryland.

Then you've got a Virginia Catholic priest who called officials to say that he had received a call from the sniper. The sniper talking about claiming responsibility for the Montgomery, Alabama, shooting.

And then you have a neighbor in Tacoma, Washington, who had called the task force complaining about his previous neighbor, John Muhammad, who had lived in a house across the street, and hearing a steady stream of gunfire there before Muhammad had moved out, about nine months prior.

So those are the three main telephone calls. But there are several other calls which came in to the hot line, all of which remain anonymous right now, because that, of course, is the deal between the task force and the public when you call in for I think information.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's...

JORDAN: And if I -- can I throw my two cents in on that? I just want...

O'BRIEN: Well, why not?

JORDAN: Most states do have laws, most people refer to them as the Son of Sam laws, which do forbid criminals from profiting from their crimes. So it's almost impossible. The only really outside possibility I can imagine is if one of the pair insists that the communications where they called for help because they wanted to turn themselves in and rat out the other person and get the immunity, but I don't think that's going to happen in this case.

O'BRIEN: All right, mighty Casey, you're still up to bat. Let's get another one from -- an e-mail from Carol in Homestead for you. "Who helped them? I believe that someone had to provide the tools, place, and idea of how to modify the car. Could this be the friend and co-owner in New Jersey? Why has he not come forward to answer questions? How many more cars have been fixed?" asks Carol ominously.

Casey?

JORDAN: Wow. It is -- first of all, don't discount the mechanical intelligence, the so-called street smarts of Mr. Mohammed and perhaps Mr. Malvo. I would not be surprised if they engineered this amazing killing machine, this car with the holes drilled in the trunk, the gun on the tripod, he very well could have come up with that himself. It would not surprise me. He was -- he was...

O'BRIEN: And it, well, he, we should remind our viewers, he at one point -- it was failed, but he did have an auto repair shop. So he was handy around cars.

JORDAN: Absolutely. Sure, and for years he worked in the Army in support systems, trying to figure out ways to make combat easier for the people who were actually engaged in it. So it is possible that the friend in New Jersey may prove to be a link in terms of getting the vehicle, because I think that was a task for him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he engineered that himself.

COSTELLO: Yes, and I believe we interviewed the guy that helped him get the car, the co-owner of that car. I remember that.

O'BRIEN: All right, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

COSTELLO: So he has spoken out.

O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

COSTELLO: Yes, Jim from Minnesota. Are you on the line?

CALLER: Yes, ma'am, I sure am.

COSTELLO: What is your question?

CALLER: OK. My question is, do they have the suspects under suicide watch? I know that they have caught them, but I want to know what kind of special precautions they have made as far as these Muslims taking their lives. I know it is an honor for them to take their lives. So...

COSTELLO: Well, let's ask Kelly that question, sir. Kelly?

MCCANN: That's a good question, but in a case like this, especially a high-visibility case where there may be other people not connected at all with his religious beliefs or anything, that would like to see him dead in retaliation, he's going to be, both of them are going to be well protected, and they're going to be protected from themselves to the absolute extent possible.

I'm sure they're being observed all the time, both their rights and but for their physical well-being. And I'm sure that anything that they could do harm to themselves with has been removed, has been removed.

LIN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- it's...

COSTELLO: They're in solitary confinement, too, right, most likely?

MCCANN: Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure, Carol, they're not given the opportunity to talk to anybody but investigators, absolutely, including each other.

O'BRIEN: I'm going to go out on a limb and say they're 24/7 coverage of these guys right now

COSTELLO: I think so.

O'BRIEN: We'll check that, but I'm -- I feel pretty confident of that.

We're going take a break. We're going to take some more questions via the e-mail and the telephone when we come back. So stay with us for more of Reporter's Notebook.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right, we're back with Reporter's Notebook. Our illustrious panel seen here, Kelly McCann screen left, mighty Casey Jordan screen middle, and Carol Lin, who is just as mighty herself, reporter on the scene there...

COSTELLO: Yes, she is small but mighty...

O'BRIEN: ... in Montgomery County (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

COSTELLO: ... our Carol Lin.

O'BRIEN: She is mighty.

Let's get an e-mail and then we got some great calls too.

Annabel in Herndon, Virginia, has this for you, Carol. "Where is John Lee Malvo's mother?" She's using the old name. We're not calling him John Lee any more. It doesn't matter, same guy, Malvo. "Was she so detached from him that she didn't know where he was heading?" I think she meant to say instead of leading.

LIN: Yes, that's a good question. And CNN is trying to track that down right now. We know very little about her other than her name is Uma James. According to "The Miami Herald," though, this morning, they are reporting that John -- well, John Lee Malvo, Lee Boyd Malvo, which was his birth name...

O'BRIEN: Whatever.

LIN: ... in Jamaica, whatever, that they had arrived on a cargo ship sometime around June 2001, and, according to "The Miami Herald" this morning, they went undetected in this country, they entered illegally and went undetected in this country all the way up until December 19, 2001, when apparently up in Bellingham, Washington, police had to respond to some complaint of a domestic dispute involving Muhammad, John Muhammad and Malvo's mother.

CNN has not confirmed what the relationship, if any, there was between John Muhammad and Malvo's mother, but we do know that John Muhammad and Malvo met sometime before -- or right about during when they were first detected in this country at about December of 2001.

So we're still trying to track down that information. We did talk with the father, the biological father of Malvo, as well as his half-brother. Neither had seen Malvo in several years, and nor did neither of them plan on coming to this country to try to see him while he is in detention.

COSTELLO: Very odd.

Dean from Florida, are you on the line? You have a question for Casey?

CALLER: Yes, good morning, folks. My question has really two parts. When it comes to the actual profile of the sniper, do you think the possibility that he did not fit the race profile is the reason why he was gone, it was gone on so long? And also, do you think this might possibly rewrite profiles in the future when looking for suspects like this that normally don't fit the profile?

O'BRIEN: Wow, wow, good question.

JORDAN: OK. I have to say by way of disclaimer that I really detest this word "profile," because everyone thinks that we go around getting white flashes of light and amazing intuition. It doesn't work that way at all.

We have to use previous cases that have been investigated, talking, interviewing previous known serial killers, to come up with typologies, I prefer that word, of different kinds of criminals. Now, that works to a certain extent if you have precedent for a certain type of crime.

In this case, we didn't have much precedence. You should know that African-American serial killers are extremely unusual, and you should also know that the people who have been trying to do analysis on television, including me, certainly know only as much as you do. We don't have all the information that the police have. They don't call us up and tune us in. I have to tell you also that had I been able to see these letters, I probably would have had a better clue. My first clue was on that Tarot card when it said "Dear Mr. Policeman," and maybe because it isn't really politically correct to go against statistics, I really didn't go and decide -- I decided against analyzing race, because there was too much that was unknown.

But looking in hindsight, I think that might have been a clue, and now that we have the letters, I think there were a lot of clues.

O'BRIEN: All right, Mr. McCann, you're up. Here's an e-mail for you. "Reports that John Muhammad was in sympathy with the September 11 attackers caused me to wonder if his alleged crimes might have been in obedience to Osama bin Laden's fatwah," which is an edict or order, "calling upon Muslims to kill the Americans and their allies, civilians and military, in any country in which it is possible to do it." That's from Alice in Maine. Good question, Alice.

MCCANN: Well, it's -- there's a lot of interesting questions here. He supposedly served in the -- during the Gulf War. We'd like to know where he served, in what capacity, where regionally he was located in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, if he went.

We'd like to know some other things, what mosque he attended in the Seattle area and for what length of time. We'd like to see his travel itinerary for the last six, seven years. I'd like to know if he just met Malvo, what, 15 months previously, is 15 months enough to bend someone that you didn't know previously to do, commit dual murders.

So, I mean, there is an awful lot questions. And believe me, investigators are going to busily search these down, because at this moment in time, a war against terror, we have to. I mean, there's no other choice. So I think in the coming weeks, we're going to see some interesting information.

COSTELLO: Yes. And just to -- so our the audience understands, there's been no established links between these guys...

MCCANN: Exactly.

COSTELLO: ... and al Qaeda or anything like that.

Another e-mail?

O'BRIEN: We'll leave it that.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: Leave it at that for now.

MCCANN: Absolutely, Carol, I mean, the bottom line is, is, that that's a link that's going to have to be confirmed. But you're right, right now there is no link by evidence.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's get one final e-mail in. This goes to Carol Lin. "What happened to the white van that everyone said they saw when the snipers were around? What did everyone do? Did they make up a white van or white panel truck, like, since they heard a white van was doing the shooting, everyone just saw a white van? I think these men they have arrested are just part of the snipers, and that's why police don't have a white van yet." Laura is kind of -- subscribes to the grassy knoll theory that there's a conspiracy out there.

But I think there's just a lot of white vans out there. Right, Carol?

LIN: Yes, you're absolutely right. And in fact, we're headquartered here at the Montgomery County police headquarters. This is our command post. And even they use white vans with ladder racks, all right? There are white vans with ladder racks across the street from us at these office buildings.

The fact of the matter is, there were eyewitness reports, initially, number one, reporting a dark-colored burgundy or blue Caprice...

O'BRIEN: Yes.

LIN: ... all right, in the first weeks of the shootings, I think it was right around October 3...

O'BRIEN: It was right after the D.C. incident, I believe, wasn't it? Yes.

LIN: Right. It was right after Pascal -- yes, exactly, it was right after the 72-year-old man was shot in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Washington.

O'BRIEN: And it was kind of overlooked, it really was.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Well, it was overlooked, it was overlooked. Well, it wasn't so much overlooked. It was noted, all right, it was noted that an eyewitness had spotted a dark-colored blue or burgundy Chevy Caprice. But then within a few short days they found a burnt-out Caprice in a garage. Because there weren't a number of eyewitnesses that continually came out to say, Oh, we saw a Caprice at this location, we saw a Caprice at this location, it wasn't so much that it was discounted as it was set aside.

Then all of a sudden, you have all these eyewitness accounts coming out initially of white vans. Could it be because there are just a number of white vans? Very possibly. But there was this echo effect, because then the investigators came out with not, you know, one but I think three separate illustrations, graphic illustrations of white vans.

And then it just kind of compounded itself. I mean, Chief Ramsey of the Washington, D.C., police department said it best. You know, we were looking for two white guys in a white van, and it turned out we ended up arresting two black guys in a blue Caprice.

Eyewitness accounts can be very tricky. Casey, you know, and Kelly can certainly talk to this point...

JORDAN: Well, you know what, you know what else, Carol?

LIN: ... that people truly believe what they saw.

JORDAN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), just a thought. This Caprice was a former police vehicle, and they use those cars because they are so nondescript.

LIN: That's a good point. And obviously, a lot of trunk space and flexibility in which these men can actually work their operation, this killing machine that they actually set up in this car.

But we can't blame eyewitnesses for coming to and doing the best job that they can, and we can't blame the police for coming out and playing off those -- that testimony.

But despite the number of times they said, Look, we don't want you to, we don't want you to put blinders on and only look at white vans, we just want you to keep your eye out. Here are a couple of illustrations to help.

But frankly, the public doesn't distinguish in that manner, and I think it just -- it excluded a lot of possibilities in people's minds.

O'BRIEN: All right. Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it that. We could go on. Couldn't we?

COSTELLO: Oh, yes, we could. But thanks to all of you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired October 26, 2002 - 09:34   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: We've been talking about the sniper attacks and arrests all morning long.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now it is time for our panel to take your e-mail questions. They have anxiously been awaiting this, as have we. The phone number, as we've told you, is 800-807-2620.

COSTELLO: And here to field your questions, CNN security analyst Kelly McCann, who's in Washington, CNN criminologist Casey Jordan in New York, and from Montgomery County, Maryland, CNN's Carol Lin.

O'BRIEN: Welcome to you all.

Let's begin with Kelly and an e-mail, actually a pair of related e-mails. The first one is, "Is a discernible motive emerging in the D.C. sniper killings?" That from our veteran e-mailer, Dale Friesen in Burnaby. And, "Has CNN verified reports that John Allen Mohammed was a member of a militant black Islam Farrakhan group as a bodyguard to Farrakhan and a part of their security force?" That one from A. Schimmer at aol.com.

Kelly?

KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: As far as motive goes, I'll defer, other than the obvious, money, to Casey. But the second one, there is information existing that says that he provided security at the Million Man March here in D.C. Now, what, in what capacity, whether he was just there to provide en route security, in other words, at the periphery of the event, or whether, in fact, he was actually protecting Louis Farrakhan, which I cannot believe, because he has an existing protective detail that is very, very unlikely to have changed just to include him.

I wouldn't know.

O'BRIEN: All right. They call it the Fruit of Islam, I believe.

Do we have a question on the phone?

COSTELLO: Do we have Arch on the phone from Canada?

CALLER: Yes, you do.

COSTELLO: Arch, take it away. What's your question?

CALLER: Yes, I have a question for any member of your panel. In view of the fact that it's alleged one of the snipers phoned in the lead that led the authorities to them, is he, in fact, now eligible for any part of the reward?

COSTELLO: Who wants to take that one?

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that part of the reward process is that it's actually -- the task force itself, which is going to be making the bulk of the decisions, what they're going to do is, they're going to review -- that's an -- actually, an interesting question. They're going to review the body of evidence, and basically the criteria is that they're going to look at who provided the best evidence.

Once they've put together a timeline of the events, so they're putting a timeline together to see where these two suspects were in relation to the shootings, they're going to look at the body of evidence and each every and every individual location, and then whichever caller provided the best body of evidence.

So that's an interesting question, but I think it's highly unlikely that the task force that actually was hunting down these two men would actually provide them with $500,000 in cash.

(CROSSTALK)

CASEY JORDAN, CNN CRIMINOLOGIST: ... yes, and Carol, Carol... isn't the truck driver eligible for some of the reward money? The truck driver who spotted the car at that rest stop?

LIN: Yes, actually there were three critical calls in this case. The truck driver who actually spotted these two -- the blue Chevy Caprice at that rest stop outside of Frederick, Maryland.

Then you've got a Virginia Catholic priest who called officials to say that he had received a call from the sniper. The sniper talking about claiming responsibility for the Montgomery, Alabama, shooting.

And then you have a neighbor in Tacoma, Washington, who had called the task force complaining about his previous neighbor, John Muhammad, who had lived in a house across the street, and hearing a steady stream of gunfire there before Muhammad had moved out, about nine months prior.

So those are the three main telephone calls. But there are several other calls which came in to the hot line, all of which remain anonymous right now, because that, of course, is the deal between the task force and the public when you call in for I think information.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's...

JORDAN: And if I -- can I throw my two cents in on that? I just want...

O'BRIEN: Well, why not?

JORDAN: Most states do have laws, most people refer to them as the Son of Sam laws, which do forbid criminals from profiting from their crimes. So it's almost impossible. The only really outside possibility I can imagine is if one of the pair insists that the communications where they called for help because they wanted to turn themselves in and rat out the other person and get the immunity, but I don't think that's going to happen in this case.

O'BRIEN: All right, mighty Casey, you're still up to bat. Let's get another one from -- an e-mail from Carol in Homestead for you. "Who helped them? I believe that someone had to provide the tools, place, and idea of how to modify the car. Could this be the friend and co-owner in New Jersey? Why has he not come forward to answer questions? How many more cars have been fixed?" asks Carol ominously.

Casey?

JORDAN: Wow. It is -- first of all, don't discount the mechanical intelligence, the so-called street smarts of Mr. Mohammed and perhaps Mr. Malvo. I would not be surprised if they engineered this amazing killing machine, this car with the holes drilled in the trunk, the gun on the tripod, he very well could have come up with that himself. It would not surprise me. He was -- he was...

O'BRIEN: And it, well, he, we should remind our viewers, he at one point -- it was failed, but he did have an auto repair shop. So he was handy around cars.

JORDAN: Absolutely. Sure, and for years he worked in the Army in support systems, trying to figure out ways to make combat easier for the people who were actually engaged in it. So it is possible that the friend in New Jersey may prove to be a link in terms of getting the vehicle, because I think that was a task for him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he engineered that himself.

COSTELLO: Yes, and I believe we interviewed the guy that helped him get the car, the co-owner of that car. I remember that.

O'BRIEN: All right, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

COSTELLO: So he has spoken out.

O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

COSTELLO: Yes, Jim from Minnesota. Are you on the line?

CALLER: Yes, ma'am, I sure am.

COSTELLO: What is your question?

CALLER: OK. My question is, do they have the suspects under suicide watch? I know that they have caught them, but I want to know what kind of special precautions they have made as far as these Muslims taking their lives. I know it is an honor for them to take their lives. So...

COSTELLO: Well, let's ask Kelly that question, sir. Kelly?

MCCANN: That's a good question, but in a case like this, especially a high-visibility case where there may be other people not connected at all with his religious beliefs or anything, that would like to see him dead in retaliation, he's going to be, both of them are going to be well protected, and they're going to be protected from themselves to the absolute extent possible.

I'm sure they're being observed all the time, both their rights and but for their physical well-being. And I'm sure that anything that they could do harm to themselves with has been removed, has been removed.

LIN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- it's...

COSTELLO: They're in solitary confinement, too, right, most likely?

MCCANN: Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure, Carol, they're not given the opportunity to talk to anybody but investigators, absolutely, including each other.

O'BRIEN: I'm going to go out on a limb and say they're 24/7 coverage of these guys right now

COSTELLO: I think so.

O'BRIEN: We'll check that, but I'm -- I feel pretty confident of that.

We're going take a break. We're going to take some more questions via the e-mail and the telephone when we come back. So stay with us for more of Reporter's Notebook.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right, we're back with Reporter's Notebook. Our illustrious panel seen here, Kelly McCann screen left, mighty Casey Jordan screen middle, and Carol Lin, who is just as mighty herself, reporter on the scene there...

COSTELLO: Yes, she is small but mighty...

O'BRIEN: ... in Montgomery County (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

COSTELLO: ... our Carol Lin.

O'BRIEN: She is mighty.

Let's get an e-mail and then we got some great calls too.

Annabel in Herndon, Virginia, has this for you, Carol. "Where is John Lee Malvo's mother?" She's using the old name. We're not calling him John Lee any more. It doesn't matter, same guy, Malvo. "Was she so detached from him that she didn't know where he was heading?" I think she meant to say instead of leading.

LIN: Yes, that's a good question. And CNN is trying to track that down right now. We know very little about her other than her name is Uma James. According to "The Miami Herald," though, this morning, they are reporting that John -- well, John Lee Malvo, Lee Boyd Malvo, which was his birth name...

O'BRIEN: Whatever.

LIN: ... in Jamaica, whatever, that they had arrived on a cargo ship sometime around June 2001, and, according to "The Miami Herald" this morning, they went undetected in this country, they entered illegally and went undetected in this country all the way up until December 19, 2001, when apparently up in Bellingham, Washington, police had to respond to some complaint of a domestic dispute involving Muhammad, John Muhammad and Malvo's mother.

CNN has not confirmed what the relationship, if any, there was between John Muhammad and Malvo's mother, but we do know that John Muhammad and Malvo met sometime before -- or right about during when they were first detected in this country at about December of 2001.

So we're still trying to track down that information. We did talk with the father, the biological father of Malvo, as well as his half-brother. Neither had seen Malvo in several years, and nor did neither of them plan on coming to this country to try to see him while he is in detention.

COSTELLO: Very odd.

Dean from Florida, are you on the line? You have a question for Casey?

CALLER: Yes, good morning, folks. My question has really two parts. When it comes to the actual profile of the sniper, do you think the possibility that he did not fit the race profile is the reason why he was gone, it was gone on so long? And also, do you think this might possibly rewrite profiles in the future when looking for suspects like this that normally don't fit the profile?

O'BRIEN: Wow, wow, good question.

JORDAN: OK. I have to say by way of disclaimer that I really detest this word "profile," because everyone thinks that we go around getting white flashes of light and amazing intuition. It doesn't work that way at all.

We have to use previous cases that have been investigated, talking, interviewing previous known serial killers, to come up with typologies, I prefer that word, of different kinds of criminals. Now, that works to a certain extent if you have precedent for a certain type of crime.

In this case, we didn't have much precedence. You should know that African-American serial killers are extremely unusual, and you should also know that the people who have been trying to do analysis on television, including me, certainly know only as much as you do. We don't have all the information that the police have. They don't call us up and tune us in. I have to tell you also that had I been able to see these letters, I probably would have had a better clue. My first clue was on that Tarot card when it said "Dear Mr. Policeman," and maybe because it isn't really politically correct to go against statistics, I really didn't go and decide -- I decided against analyzing race, because there was too much that was unknown.

But looking in hindsight, I think that might have been a clue, and now that we have the letters, I think there were a lot of clues.

O'BRIEN: All right, Mr. McCann, you're up. Here's an e-mail for you. "Reports that John Muhammad was in sympathy with the September 11 attackers caused me to wonder if his alleged crimes might have been in obedience to Osama bin Laden's fatwah," which is an edict or order, "calling upon Muslims to kill the Americans and their allies, civilians and military, in any country in which it is possible to do it." That's from Alice in Maine. Good question, Alice.

MCCANN: Well, it's -- there's a lot of interesting questions here. He supposedly served in the -- during the Gulf War. We'd like to know where he served, in what capacity, where regionally he was located in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, if he went.

We'd like to know some other things, what mosque he attended in the Seattle area and for what length of time. We'd like to see his travel itinerary for the last six, seven years. I'd like to know if he just met Malvo, what, 15 months previously, is 15 months enough to bend someone that you didn't know previously to do, commit dual murders.

So, I mean, there is an awful lot questions. And believe me, investigators are going to busily search these down, because at this moment in time, a war against terror, we have to. I mean, there's no other choice. So I think in the coming weeks, we're going to see some interesting information.

COSTELLO: Yes. And just to -- so our the audience understands, there's been no established links between these guys...

MCCANN: Exactly.

COSTELLO: ... and al Qaeda or anything like that.

Another e-mail?

O'BRIEN: We'll leave it that.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: Leave it at that for now.

MCCANN: Absolutely, Carol, I mean, the bottom line is, is, that that's a link that's going to have to be confirmed. But you're right, right now there is no link by evidence.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's get one final e-mail in. This goes to Carol Lin. "What happened to the white van that everyone said they saw when the snipers were around? What did everyone do? Did they make up a white van or white panel truck, like, since they heard a white van was doing the shooting, everyone just saw a white van? I think these men they have arrested are just part of the snipers, and that's why police don't have a white van yet." Laura is kind of -- subscribes to the grassy knoll theory that there's a conspiracy out there.

But I think there's just a lot of white vans out there. Right, Carol?

LIN: Yes, you're absolutely right. And in fact, we're headquartered here at the Montgomery County police headquarters. This is our command post. And even they use white vans with ladder racks, all right? There are white vans with ladder racks across the street from us at these office buildings.

The fact of the matter is, there were eyewitness reports, initially, number one, reporting a dark-colored burgundy or blue Caprice...

O'BRIEN: Yes.

LIN: ... all right, in the first weeks of the shootings, I think it was right around October 3...

O'BRIEN: It was right after the D.C. incident, I believe, wasn't it? Yes.

LIN: Right. It was right after Pascal -- yes, exactly, it was right after the 72-year-old man was shot in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Washington.

O'BRIEN: And it was kind of overlooked, it really was.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Well, it was overlooked, it was overlooked. Well, it wasn't so much overlooked. It was noted, all right, it was noted that an eyewitness had spotted a dark-colored blue or burgundy Chevy Caprice. But then within a few short days they found a burnt-out Caprice in a garage. Because there weren't a number of eyewitnesses that continually came out to say, Oh, we saw a Caprice at this location, we saw a Caprice at this location, it wasn't so much that it was discounted as it was set aside.

Then all of a sudden, you have all these eyewitness accounts coming out initially of white vans. Could it be because there are just a number of white vans? Very possibly. But there was this echo effect, because then the investigators came out with not, you know, one but I think three separate illustrations, graphic illustrations of white vans.

And then it just kind of compounded itself. I mean, Chief Ramsey of the Washington, D.C., police department said it best. You know, we were looking for two white guys in a white van, and it turned out we ended up arresting two black guys in a blue Caprice.

Eyewitness accounts can be very tricky. Casey, you know, and Kelly can certainly talk to this point...

JORDAN: Well, you know what, you know what else, Carol?

LIN: ... that people truly believe what they saw.

JORDAN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), just a thought. This Caprice was a former police vehicle, and they use those cars because they are so nondescript.

LIN: That's a good point. And obviously, a lot of trunk space and flexibility in which these men can actually work their operation, this killing machine that they actually set up in this car.

But we can't blame eyewitnesses for coming to and doing the best job that they can, and we can't blame the police for coming out and playing off those -- that testimony.

But despite the number of times they said, Look, we don't want you to, we don't want you to put blinders on and only look at white vans, we just want you to keep your eye out. Here are a couple of illustrations to help.

But frankly, the public doesn't distinguish in that manner, and I think it just -- it excluded a lot of possibilities in people's minds.

O'BRIEN: All right. Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it that. We could go on. Couldn't we?

COSTELLO: Oh, yes, we could. But thanks to all of you.

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