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CNN Saturday Morning News
Discussion on Preparation for Iraq Inspections
Aired November 23, 2002 - 07:10 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLOWAY, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to turn our attentions now this morning to the Iraqi weapons hunt. United Nations weapons inspectors are inching their way toward Baghdad. They will assemble in Cyprus before departing for the Iraqi capital on Monday. And the top inspector says that this time Iraq knows it does not have much wiggle room.
For a closer look at the preparations and the inspections set up -- set to begin midweek, we're going to turn now to former chief weapons inspector Richard Butler.
Thank you, Mr. Butler, for being with us this morning.
RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Pleasure, Catherine.
CALLOWAY: Let's talk about first about where we are going into these inspections. We have seen a general declaration in Prague at the NATO meeting there presenting a united front going into these -- into this situation. But is there anything going on behind the scenes?
BUTLER: That's a great question, Catherine. I think here is. The declaration said the sort of things you would expect it to say, that NATO is solid on two things, its opposition to terrorism, and its wish that Iraq should obey the law passed by the Security Council, let those inspectors do their job, and get rid of the weapons of mass destruction.
But that's the surface of it. What we know, I think, is that two other things have been going on behind the scenes. One, the United States has instructed 50 of its ambassadors to say to the countries where they're accredited, where they are ambassador, that, We want you to come on board and form a coalition of willing states who would go to war with Iraq if and when that becomes necessary.
Catherine, that's a big exercise, 50 countries, big-time effort to put that together.
And on the other hand, we hear that the French have made clear that they would not be prepared to accept the United States simply deciding to go to war if it doesn't like Iraq's declaration on its weapons of mass destruction. Viewers will remember that Iraq has to make such a declaration by the eighth of December.
CALLOWAY: All right...
BUTLER: And the French have said it won't be enough for the U.S. to say...
CALLOWAY: But what, what kind of a (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BUTLER: ... We don't like your declaration.
CALLOWAY: But let's say we -- it doesn't, the U.S. doesn't have the French support. What kind of effect would that really have on a possible war with Iraq?
BUTLER: That's not very clear at this stage. But I would make this point. The unity of the Security Council behind this new resolution is something that people wouldn't have predicted even a few months ago. It's something that evaporated when I was doing the job for years ago and led to a period, a long period, of no inspections in Iraq.
That unity has become crucial to the business of getting the inspectors back in there.
CALLOWAY: Right.
BUTLER: It was remarkable that the president went to the U.N. in the way that he did, because a lot of people thought he wouldn't do that.
Now, if that unity crumbles, then I expect that there would be very, very considerable anxiety in the world about the United States deciding to go it alone, and that's a big factor, a big concern.
CALLOWAY: OK...
BUTLER: And I think we're seeing the possibility of such an eventuality in the French attitude, as expressed in the NATO meeting.
CALLOWAY: Right, that's a valid point.
Let's get to the challenges that this group is going to be facing. Certainly a little bit different-
BUTLER: Right.
CALLOWAY: ... than the ones that you faced. What about the new technology? We've heard so much about that this past week with things like rapid...
BUTLER: Right.
CALLOWAY: ... you know, able to detect all of these molecules and microbes that could detect things like...
BUTLER: Right.
CALLOWAY: ... chemical warfare. But, you know, isn't the real problem here going to be where to point those little gadgets?
BUTLER: Well, up to a point, Catherine. Again, I think that's a great question. But, you know, one of the things the inspectorate did do in the four years that they weren't allowed to be in Iraq was that they put together a pretty extensive database on Iraq's past weapons programs, where they made the stuff and stored the stuff in the past.
And I think they've been given a lot of current intelligence from countries like the United States and others.
Now, that together with the new equipment they have -- and by the way, that includes better observation from the sky than we had four years ago. They're still going to have the U2 aircraft, but they're going to have more than that, I think satellite observation...
CALLOWAY: Satellite, right.
BUTLER: ... as well. And with ground-penetrating radar and gamma ray detection machines, you know, to detect if there are nuclear materials buried underground. Those things will help them a lot.
But, you know, Catherine, I would still have to emphasize this. Their enemy is formidable here.
CALLOWAY: Right.
BUTLER: The Iraqis have had a long time to try to hide what they may want to hide, and it's going to test even this modern equipment and technology.
CALLOWAY: Do you think that setting up in Cyprus is going to have any effect on how this is going to maneuver -- how they're going to be able to maneuver? Is this going to help them or hurt them setting up there this time?
BUTLER: No, no, it's a staging point operation, as far as I can see. We had a similar operation in the past in Bahrain, and I and my team always flew into Bahrain, put our gear and everything together there...
CALLOWAY: Right.
BUTLER: ... and then went into Baghdad.
Now, I think Bahrain is probably a little less comfortable about that now than they were four years ago. We were starting to feel that, you know, as they felt the pressure from Iraq. Cyprus is almost as close. It's not far away. And Cyprus, obviously, is...
CALLOWAY: And...
BUTLER: ... proving to be a more convenient staging point and -- at present.
CALLOWAY: And Mr. Butler, let me to -- first ask you before we leave, because we don't have much time left here, December 8...
BUTLER: Right. CALLOWAY: ... is the deadline that's been set. Is that, you know, a steadfast time, or do you think that we could see another, another deadline set up after that?
BUTLER: Oh, my God, that's another terrific question. It is a steadfast time, it's laid down in the resolution. But here's the other problem. As soon as that resolution was adopted, the Russian ambassador said, You know, maybe 30 days, which is December 8...
CALLOWAY: Right.
BUTLER: ... maybe 30 days is a bit short. Would it matter that much if Iraq took a little more time? And you see, there's another signal, Catherine, that this is not going to be absolutely plain sailing.
CALLOWAY: Right.
BUTLER: The Russians and the French have their concerns about this declaration, and it's going to be fascinating to see...
CALLOWAY: It will be.
BUTLER: ... how Iraq plays that in the days ahead.
CALLOWAY: Mr. Butler, thank you very much for being with us this morning. That's Richard Butler.
BUTLER: My pleasure.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 23, 2002 - 07:10 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLOWAY, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to turn our attentions now this morning to the Iraqi weapons hunt. United Nations weapons inspectors are inching their way toward Baghdad. They will assemble in Cyprus before departing for the Iraqi capital on Monday. And the top inspector says that this time Iraq knows it does not have much wiggle room.
For a closer look at the preparations and the inspections set up -- set to begin midweek, we're going to turn now to former chief weapons inspector Richard Butler.
Thank you, Mr. Butler, for being with us this morning.
RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Pleasure, Catherine.
CALLOWAY: Let's talk about first about where we are going into these inspections. We have seen a general declaration in Prague at the NATO meeting there presenting a united front going into these -- into this situation. But is there anything going on behind the scenes?
BUTLER: That's a great question, Catherine. I think here is. The declaration said the sort of things you would expect it to say, that NATO is solid on two things, its opposition to terrorism, and its wish that Iraq should obey the law passed by the Security Council, let those inspectors do their job, and get rid of the weapons of mass destruction.
But that's the surface of it. What we know, I think, is that two other things have been going on behind the scenes. One, the United States has instructed 50 of its ambassadors to say to the countries where they're accredited, where they are ambassador, that, We want you to come on board and form a coalition of willing states who would go to war with Iraq if and when that becomes necessary.
Catherine, that's a big exercise, 50 countries, big-time effort to put that together.
And on the other hand, we hear that the French have made clear that they would not be prepared to accept the United States simply deciding to go to war if it doesn't like Iraq's declaration on its weapons of mass destruction. Viewers will remember that Iraq has to make such a declaration by the eighth of December.
CALLOWAY: All right...
BUTLER: And the French have said it won't be enough for the U.S. to say...
CALLOWAY: But what, what kind of a (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BUTLER: ... We don't like your declaration.
CALLOWAY: But let's say we -- it doesn't, the U.S. doesn't have the French support. What kind of effect would that really have on a possible war with Iraq?
BUTLER: That's not very clear at this stage. But I would make this point. The unity of the Security Council behind this new resolution is something that people wouldn't have predicted even a few months ago. It's something that evaporated when I was doing the job for years ago and led to a period, a long period, of no inspections in Iraq.
That unity has become crucial to the business of getting the inspectors back in there.
CALLOWAY: Right.
BUTLER: It was remarkable that the president went to the U.N. in the way that he did, because a lot of people thought he wouldn't do that.
Now, if that unity crumbles, then I expect that there would be very, very considerable anxiety in the world about the United States deciding to go it alone, and that's a big factor, a big concern.
CALLOWAY: OK...
BUTLER: And I think we're seeing the possibility of such an eventuality in the French attitude, as expressed in the NATO meeting.
CALLOWAY: Right, that's a valid point.
Let's get to the challenges that this group is going to be facing. Certainly a little bit different-
BUTLER: Right.
CALLOWAY: ... than the ones that you faced. What about the new technology? We've heard so much about that this past week with things like rapid...
BUTLER: Right.
CALLOWAY: ... you know, able to detect all of these molecules and microbes that could detect things like...
BUTLER: Right.
CALLOWAY: ... chemical warfare. But, you know, isn't the real problem here going to be where to point those little gadgets?
BUTLER: Well, up to a point, Catherine. Again, I think that's a great question. But, you know, one of the things the inspectorate did do in the four years that they weren't allowed to be in Iraq was that they put together a pretty extensive database on Iraq's past weapons programs, where they made the stuff and stored the stuff in the past.
And I think they've been given a lot of current intelligence from countries like the United States and others.
Now, that together with the new equipment they have -- and by the way, that includes better observation from the sky than we had four years ago. They're still going to have the U2 aircraft, but they're going to have more than that, I think satellite observation...
CALLOWAY: Satellite, right.
BUTLER: ... as well. And with ground-penetrating radar and gamma ray detection machines, you know, to detect if there are nuclear materials buried underground. Those things will help them a lot.
But, you know, Catherine, I would still have to emphasize this. Their enemy is formidable here.
CALLOWAY: Right.
BUTLER: The Iraqis have had a long time to try to hide what they may want to hide, and it's going to test even this modern equipment and technology.
CALLOWAY: Do you think that setting up in Cyprus is going to have any effect on how this is going to maneuver -- how they're going to be able to maneuver? Is this going to help them or hurt them setting up there this time?
BUTLER: No, no, it's a staging point operation, as far as I can see. We had a similar operation in the past in Bahrain, and I and my team always flew into Bahrain, put our gear and everything together there...
CALLOWAY: Right.
BUTLER: ... and then went into Baghdad.
Now, I think Bahrain is probably a little less comfortable about that now than they were four years ago. We were starting to feel that, you know, as they felt the pressure from Iraq. Cyprus is almost as close. It's not far away. And Cyprus, obviously, is...
CALLOWAY: And...
BUTLER: ... proving to be a more convenient staging point and -- at present.
CALLOWAY: And Mr. Butler, let me to -- first ask you before we leave, because we don't have much time left here, December 8...
BUTLER: Right. CALLOWAY: ... is the deadline that's been set. Is that, you know, a steadfast time, or do you think that we could see another, another deadline set up after that?
BUTLER: Oh, my God, that's another terrific question. It is a steadfast time, it's laid down in the resolution. But here's the other problem. As soon as that resolution was adopted, the Russian ambassador said, You know, maybe 30 days, which is December 8...
CALLOWAY: Right.
BUTLER: ... maybe 30 days is a bit short. Would it matter that much if Iraq took a little more time? And you see, there's another signal, Catherine, that this is not going to be absolutely plain sailing.
CALLOWAY: Right.
BUTLER: The Russians and the French have their concerns about this declaration, and it's going to be fascinating to see...
CALLOWAY: It will be.
BUTLER: ... how Iraq plays that in the days ahead.
CALLOWAY: Mr. Butler, thank you very much for being with us this morning. That's Richard Butler.
BUTLER: My pleasure.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
