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CNN Saturday Morning News
The Novak Zone: Interview With James Webb
Aired December 07, 2002 - 09:38 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: It's been well stated that Iraq could soon become the latest combat zone for U.S. forces. And this week, former Secretary of the Navy James Webb joins Robert Novak in The Novak Zone.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT NOVAK, HOST: I'm Robert Novak. Welcome to The Novak Zone.
My guest is James Webb, former secretary of the Navy, highly decorated Marine Corps combat veteran of Vietnam, novelist and journalist. We're at the U.S. Marine Corps Memorial just outside Washington.
Secretary Webb, the U.S. military is gearing up for what looks like a major military operation in Iraq. Is the United States, are the American people, ready for war?
JAMES WEBB, FORMER SECRETARY OF THE NAVY: I think that people support the idea of the use of military force to combat international terrorism. I think they have demonstrated that in the polls after Afghanistan and this sort of thing.
But the question really becomes, against whom and for what? And in that respect, I have to say I believe this administration has squandered an historic opportunity that it had certainly after 9/11.
At that time, we had the international community almost overwhelmingly with us. The idea was that we would join together and rid ourselves of this evil that sort of does not know national borders. And the issue, unfortunately, over the past year, sort of morphed into an obsession just with the Iraqi situation.
And that, I think, gives a number of people pause, people who want to be loyal, who want to be loyal to the administration and to the idea of international terrorism, but still have uncertainties about the Iraqi situation.
NOVAK: Why do you think there is an obsession with Iraq when the entire problem of terrorism is much broader than that?
WEBB: Personally, I think from watching this over the past year that there is a small group of people inside the administration who were very influential in getting the Iraq issue to the forefront early. They got the president on board early. I'm not saying that the Iraq situation does not deserve attention, but it's clearly a question of priority and timing.
And what we have here is, we have now committed the nation to at least some level, at the same time that people don't really understand how far the nation is going to be committed. What is this about? Is it about weapons of mass destruction, is it about regime change, is it about assassinating a foreign leader? Is it about occupying Iraq for a period of time? Is it about changing the entire region, the culture of the entire region?
We don't know. All these things have been thrown around, and so people have become extremely uncomfortable.
NOVAK: Since the answers are not known, do you think the American people will tolerate a high level of casualties? After all, in the operation in Kosovo, there was zero American casualties.
WEBB: I think that the American people, when they are shown a reason, will support their troops. In this situation, we've got another divide which occurred sort of during the middle of the Vietnam War, in that there are a large percentage of people in this country, most of them, who only are approaching the issue intellectually rather than emotionally. They don't have a child or a spouse or a father at risk.
So it's difficult to measure the mood. But Americans are fair, they're concerned about international terrorism. The question, again, is, where the president is going to take us here, and how far.
I don't think that there's going to be a large measure of support if this is done, A, unilaterally, and I don't mean unilaterally with these false alliances that have been put together by coercion, or B, for a long period of time when, number one, the microscope has gone only onto this region when our strategic concerns are much wider. And if these other things start happening, Pakistan, North Korea, et cetera.
So I think the president is really in a very delicate position here.
NOVAK: Mr. Secretary, I was -- recently addressed a conservative group in New York City at lunch, and rather upper bracket in salary, conservative, supporters of the president. And I asked for a show of hands on how many people had children or grandchildren serving in the armed forces at the present time.
The answer was zero. Not a hand went up. Does that bother you?
WEBB: Bothers me a lot. I mean, in terms of these sorts of engagements, I hear it said a lot that, well, these people step forward, they volunteer, they took their money, they should go do it. And lord knows, they're going to do their duty, and they are very fine people.
But at the same time, when you're conducting essentially a war at your own discretion, as opposed to a war where you have been attacked, it's very difficult to look at these people. And I have, you know, family members, and my daughter's boyfriend deploys today with the Marine Corps. It's very difficult to look at these people and say, Yes, this is the nation speaking, as opposed to these individuals.
And something else that really concerns me. When I look at this region and what we're doing and the lack of clear enunciation of what the goal is going to be -- in other words, we need to think about something, and I haven't seen it discussed very much. The last time that the United States got involved directly in regime change in this region, we ended up trading the shah of Iran for the Ayatollah Khomeini.
NOVAK: Bad trade.
WEBB: Yes. So in term of unintended consequences, it's not simply the battlefield, it's the dynamics of the region.
NOVAK: You gave a speech in Monterey to the Naval Postgraduate School not recently, and you, which was critical of the impending operation in Iraq, and you got a lot of favorable comments from the naval military there. Do you think the officer corps has second thoughts about this operation?
WEBB: I think that we make a mistake when we simply assume, as some of these writers have assumed from the neoconservative group, when we assume that people in the military should be kind of unthinking robots who are in effect going to carry out the edicts of whoever is above them.
The people in the military are thinking people. They are very special people to me. I came out of that community, I was born into it. They will do their duty, but that does not mean that they support everything that is going on.
NOVAK: All right, the big question for James Webb, the military is planning to put in journalists with the troops for the first time on an intimate basis since World War II. Good idea or bad idea?
WEBB: Good idea that they're being trained, as long as it's not just for show. And how they use them, I would go to the operational commander. If I were a company commander I'd want to say, If I'm really going to do this, does this group fit into my operational environment, or does it impede it?
But I think it's a good idea they have been shown a little bit of the other side.
NOVAK: James Webb, thank you very much.
WEBB: Thank you.
NOVAK: And thank you for joining us in The Novak Zone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 7, 2002 - 09:38 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: It's been well stated that Iraq could soon become the latest combat zone for U.S. forces. And this week, former Secretary of the Navy James Webb joins Robert Novak in The Novak Zone.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT NOVAK, HOST: I'm Robert Novak. Welcome to The Novak Zone.
My guest is James Webb, former secretary of the Navy, highly decorated Marine Corps combat veteran of Vietnam, novelist and journalist. We're at the U.S. Marine Corps Memorial just outside Washington.
Secretary Webb, the U.S. military is gearing up for what looks like a major military operation in Iraq. Is the United States, are the American people, ready for war?
JAMES WEBB, FORMER SECRETARY OF THE NAVY: I think that people support the idea of the use of military force to combat international terrorism. I think they have demonstrated that in the polls after Afghanistan and this sort of thing.
But the question really becomes, against whom and for what? And in that respect, I have to say I believe this administration has squandered an historic opportunity that it had certainly after 9/11.
At that time, we had the international community almost overwhelmingly with us. The idea was that we would join together and rid ourselves of this evil that sort of does not know national borders. And the issue, unfortunately, over the past year, sort of morphed into an obsession just with the Iraqi situation.
And that, I think, gives a number of people pause, people who want to be loyal, who want to be loyal to the administration and to the idea of international terrorism, but still have uncertainties about the Iraqi situation.
NOVAK: Why do you think there is an obsession with Iraq when the entire problem of terrorism is much broader than that?
WEBB: Personally, I think from watching this over the past year that there is a small group of people inside the administration who were very influential in getting the Iraq issue to the forefront early. They got the president on board early. I'm not saying that the Iraq situation does not deserve attention, but it's clearly a question of priority and timing.
And what we have here is, we have now committed the nation to at least some level, at the same time that people don't really understand how far the nation is going to be committed. What is this about? Is it about weapons of mass destruction, is it about regime change, is it about assassinating a foreign leader? Is it about occupying Iraq for a period of time? Is it about changing the entire region, the culture of the entire region?
We don't know. All these things have been thrown around, and so people have become extremely uncomfortable.
NOVAK: Since the answers are not known, do you think the American people will tolerate a high level of casualties? After all, in the operation in Kosovo, there was zero American casualties.
WEBB: I think that the American people, when they are shown a reason, will support their troops. In this situation, we've got another divide which occurred sort of during the middle of the Vietnam War, in that there are a large percentage of people in this country, most of them, who only are approaching the issue intellectually rather than emotionally. They don't have a child or a spouse or a father at risk.
So it's difficult to measure the mood. But Americans are fair, they're concerned about international terrorism. The question, again, is, where the president is going to take us here, and how far.
I don't think that there's going to be a large measure of support if this is done, A, unilaterally, and I don't mean unilaterally with these false alliances that have been put together by coercion, or B, for a long period of time when, number one, the microscope has gone only onto this region when our strategic concerns are much wider. And if these other things start happening, Pakistan, North Korea, et cetera.
So I think the president is really in a very delicate position here.
NOVAK: Mr. Secretary, I was -- recently addressed a conservative group in New York City at lunch, and rather upper bracket in salary, conservative, supporters of the president. And I asked for a show of hands on how many people had children or grandchildren serving in the armed forces at the present time.
The answer was zero. Not a hand went up. Does that bother you?
WEBB: Bothers me a lot. I mean, in terms of these sorts of engagements, I hear it said a lot that, well, these people step forward, they volunteer, they took their money, they should go do it. And lord knows, they're going to do their duty, and they are very fine people.
But at the same time, when you're conducting essentially a war at your own discretion, as opposed to a war where you have been attacked, it's very difficult to look at these people. And I have, you know, family members, and my daughter's boyfriend deploys today with the Marine Corps. It's very difficult to look at these people and say, Yes, this is the nation speaking, as opposed to these individuals.
And something else that really concerns me. When I look at this region and what we're doing and the lack of clear enunciation of what the goal is going to be -- in other words, we need to think about something, and I haven't seen it discussed very much. The last time that the United States got involved directly in regime change in this region, we ended up trading the shah of Iran for the Ayatollah Khomeini.
NOVAK: Bad trade.
WEBB: Yes. So in term of unintended consequences, it's not simply the battlefield, it's the dynamics of the region.
NOVAK: You gave a speech in Monterey to the Naval Postgraduate School not recently, and you, which was critical of the impending operation in Iraq, and you got a lot of favorable comments from the naval military there. Do you think the officer corps has second thoughts about this operation?
WEBB: I think that we make a mistake when we simply assume, as some of these writers have assumed from the neoconservative group, when we assume that people in the military should be kind of unthinking robots who are in effect going to carry out the edicts of whoever is above them.
The people in the military are thinking people. They are very special people to me. I came out of that community, I was born into it. They will do their duty, but that does not mean that they support everything that is going on.
NOVAK: All right, the big question for James Webb, the military is planning to put in journalists with the troops for the first time on an intimate basis since World War II. Good idea or bad idea?
WEBB: Good idea that they're being trained, as long as it's not just for show. And how they use them, I would go to the operational commander. If I were a company commander I'd want to say, If I'm really going to do this, does this group fit into my operational environment, or does it impede it?
But I think it's a good idea they have been shown a little bit of the other side.
NOVAK: James Webb, thank you very much.
WEBB: Thank you.
NOVAK: And thank you for joining us in The Novak Zone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
