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CNN Saturday Morning News
Analyst of Cardinal Law's Resignation
Aired December 14, 2002 - 07:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHELLE NEVILLE, CNN ANCHOR: Well, according to Vatican sources, the pope accepted Law's resignation because he realized Law's presence was damaging the credibility of the church.
John Allen, our Vatican analyst, joins us now from Rome to talk about, more about Law's resignation.
And good morning, John. First of all, Cardinal Law is on the way back to the U.S. following a trip to Rome. Speaking of Rome, does Rome blame the American media for this story blowing up?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, you know, Rome is one of these sort of convenient journalistic fictions we use, like the White House or the American people, as if there's only one way of seeing things out there. The truth is, there are different views in Rome.
But certainly there are those in Rome who think that part of the public furor that's surrounding the sex abuse scandals, and part of the loud clamor to have Law's head on a platter, came from people who perhaps don't like Law and don't like the Catholic Church, for reasons unrelated to the sex abuse crisis, maybe because they don't like their stand on abortion, or they don't the stand the Vatican has taken on the Middle East, or whatever it may be.
But I think, you know, at the end of the day, I think that the pope's decision to accept this resignation, which cuts against all of the institutional logic of the Vatican and cuts against the pope's own strong personal bias that bishops shouldn't walk away when the going gets tough, that decision illustrates that finally there came a recognition that the meltdown in Boston was just beyond control. It wasn't being invented by anyone, it was a reality.
NEVILLE: And let's talk about the interim replacement here. I mean, can he be effective at all? And ultimately, who do you think's going to replace Law?
ALLEN: Yes, I think this is a very interim replacement. My Vatican sources tell me that they're going to move exceptionally quickly to try to name a permanent successor, because under the code of canon law, which is the law of the Catholic Church, this apostolic administrator is supposed to be just a maintenance appointment. He's not really suppose to do anything dramatic or different until the permanent successor arrives.
And this, of course, is a moment where Boston needs anything but maintenance. I mean, they need some dramatic steps forward to try to heal the divisions and also solve some of the extremely pressing problems, including the prospect of bankruptcy and all that civil litigation, and now the possibility of some criminal indictments.
So in terms of who might that person be, the names being floated in U.S. discussions (UNINTELLIGIBLE) would include Bishop Wilton Gregory, who is the president of the Bishops' Conference...
NEVILLE: Right.
ALLEN: ... and Archbishop Harry Flynn out in St. Paul, who has been the chair of the Ad Hoc Committee on Sex Abuse. However, I think from a Roman point of view, both of those men are actually long shots, Gregory because a number of people in Rome don't- have some very serious doubts about his appointment of Frank Keating, the former Oklahoma governor, to be the head of the Lay Review Board, and the whole concept of how that board is working.
Flynn, because he was the architect of the sex abuse policies the bishops adopted in Dallas in June, which of course the Vatican didn't like.
I think on this side of the ocean, more probable candidates would include Archbishop Edwin O'Brien, who's the head of the military archdiocese in the States and was the rector of the American Seminary here. And possibly Sean O'Malley. He's a bishop down in Palm Beach, was put there after two bishops in that diocese, one after the other, had to resign under the weight of sex abuse scandals. And O'Malley, therefore, is someone who was vetted very thoroughly by Rome for that appointment, and who should be able to hit the ground running in Boston.
NEVILLE: Now, let's talk about Law. I mean, even though he resigned, he still has all the standings of a cardinal, and so I ask you, though, what's the possibility or likelihood that the Vatican would demote him?
ALLEN: Oh, I think there's almost no possibility of that at all. I mean, the clearest sort of comparison would be in 1995, when Cardinal Hans Herman Gror (ph) in Vienna, Austria, had to resign, in that case because he himself had been accused of acts of sex abuse earlier in his life.
And it was an enormous scandal, rivaling, I think, the intensity and the furor of Boston in all its particulars. Gror did eventually resign, but he remains to this day a fully accredited member of the College of Cardinals, and I'm sure that will be the case for Law as well.
You know, one of the ironies there is that Law is a member of tow of the most important congregations. Those are the offices in the Vatican that do the work of the Vatican. One is the Congregation for Bishops, which oversees the work of bishops, including Law himself, and the Congregation for Clergy, which will deal with the bankruptcy question.
So in a way, I mean, Bernie Law has not completely removed himself from this story quite yet.
NEVILLE: Yes. And finally, I wanted to ask you if you think the Vatican would protect Law from any potential criminal charges.
ALLEN: No, I don't think so. I mean, two years ago here in Italy we had a situation where the cardinal of Naples, Michaeli Giordano (ph), faced criminal charges for alleged involvement in a loan-sharking scheme run by his brother. And he was actually indicted criminally, and there was a trial. Now, in the end, he was acquitted, but of course no one knew it was going to turn out that way.
There were constant rumors the Vatican was going to pull Giordano out of Naples and bring him on the inside to protect him, and in fact, they never did. And at the end, they took the position that that guy, you know, created a problem, and he needed to deal with it.
I think that's actually been one of the misconceptions about this all along, that from the United States, we think, if the cardinal isn't fired, somehow they're protecting him. From the Vatican's point of view, in a way, the way to hold the man accountable is to insist that he stays in place and cleans up his own mess, which is, again, what makes the pope's ultimate decision to accept the resignation such a departure from the normal script.
NEVILLE: Interesting. John Allen, thank you so much for joining us this morning.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 14, 2002 - 07:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHELLE NEVILLE, CNN ANCHOR: Well, according to Vatican sources, the pope accepted Law's resignation because he realized Law's presence was damaging the credibility of the church.
John Allen, our Vatican analyst, joins us now from Rome to talk about, more about Law's resignation.
And good morning, John. First of all, Cardinal Law is on the way back to the U.S. following a trip to Rome. Speaking of Rome, does Rome blame the American media for this story blowing up?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, you know, Rome is one of these sort of convenient journalistic fictions we use, like the White House or the American people, as if there's only one way of seeing things out there. The truth is, there are different views in Rome.
But certainly there are those in Rome who think that part of the public furor that's surrounding the sex abuse scandals, and part of the loud clamor to have Law's head on a platter, came from people who perhaps don't like Law and don't like the Catholic Church, for reasons unrelated to the sex abuse crisis, maybe because they don't like their stand on abortion, or they don't the stand the Vatican has taken on the Middle East, or whatever it may be.
But I think, you know, at the end of the day, I think that the pope's decision to accept this resignation, which cuts against all of the institutional logic of the Vatican and cuts against the pope's own strong personal bias that bishops shouldn't walk away when the going gets tough, that decision illustrates that finally there came a recognition that the meltdown in Boston was just beyond control. It wasn't being invented by anyone, it was a reality.
NEVILLE: And let's talk about the interim replacement here. I mean, can he be effective at all? And ultimately, who do you think's going to replace Law?
ALLEN: Yes, I think this is a very interim replacement. My Vatican sources tell me that they're going to move exceptionally quickly to try to name a permanent successor, because under the code of canon law, which is the law of the Catholic Church, this apostolic administrator is supposed to be just a maintenance appointment. He's not really suppose to do anything dramatic or different until the permanent successor arrives.
And this, of course, is a moment where Boston needs anything but maintenance. I mean, they need some dramatic steps forward to try to heal the divisions and also solve some of the extremely pressing problems, including the prospect of bankruptcy and all that civil litigation, and now the possibility of some criminal indictments.
So in terms of who might that person be, the names being floated in U.S. discussions (UNINTELLIGIBLE) would include Bishop Wilton Gregory, who is the president of the Bishops' Conference...
NEVILLE: Right.
ALLEN: ... and Archbishop Harry Flynn out in St. Paul, who has been the chair of the Ad Hoc Committee on Sex Abuse. However, I think from a Roman point of view, both of those men are actually long shots, Gregory because a number of people in Rome don't- have some very serious doubts about his appointment of Frank Keating, the former Oklahoma governor, to be the head of the Lay Review Board, and the whole concept of how that board is working.
Flynn, because he was the architect of the sex abuse policies the bishops adopted in Dallas in June, which of course the Vatican didn't like.
I think on this side of the ocean, more probable candidates would include Archbishop Edwin O'Brien, who's the head of the military archdiocese in the States and was the rector of the American Seminary here. And possibly Sean O'Malley. He's a bishop down in Palm Beach, was put there after two bishops in that diocese, one after the other, had to resign under the weight of sex abuse scandals. And O'Malley, therefore, is someone who was vetted very thoroughly by Rome for that appointment, and who should be able to hit the ground running in Boston.
NEVILLE: Now, let's talk about Law. I mean, even though he resigned, he still has all the standings of a cardinal, and so I ask you, though, what's the possibility or likelihood that the Vatican would demote him?
ALLEN: Oh, I think there's almost no possibility of that at all. I mean, the clearest sort of comparison would be in 1995, when Cardinal Hans Herman Gror (ph) in Vienna, Austria, had to resign, in that case because he himself had been accused of acts of sex abuse earlier in his life.
And it was an enormous scandal, rivaling, I think, the intensity and the furor of Boston in all its particulars. Gror did eventually resign, but he remains to this day a fully accredited member of the College of Cardinals, and I'm sure that will be the case for Law as well.
You know, one of the ironies there is that Law is a member of tow of the most important congregations. Those are the offices in the Vatican that do the work of the Vatican. One is the Congregation for Bishops, which oversees the work of bishops, including Law himself, and the Congregation for Clergy, which will deal with the bankruptcy question.
So in a way, I mean, Bernie Law has not completely removed himself from this story quite yet.
NEVILLE: Yes. And finally, I wanted to ask you if you think the Vatican would protect Law from any potential criminal charges.
ALLEN: No, I don't think so. I mean, two years ago here in Italy we had a situation where the cardinal of Naples, Michaeli Giordano (ph), faced criminal charges for alleged involvement in a loan-sharking scheme run by his brother. And he was actually indicted criminally, and there was a trial. Now, in the end, he was acquitted, but of course no one knew it was going to turn out that way.
There were constant rumors the Vatican was going to pull Giordano out of Naples and bring him on the inside to protect him, and in fact, they never did. And at the end, they took the position that that guy, you know, created a problem, and he needed to deal with it.
I think that's actually been one of the misconceptions about this all along, that from the United States, we think, if the cardinal isn't fired, somehow they're protecting him. From the Vatican's point of view, in a way, the way to hold the man accountable is to insist that he stays in place and cleans up his own mess, which is, again, what makes the pope's ultimate decision to accept the resignation such a departure from the normal script.
NEVILLE: Interesting. John Allen, thank you so much for joining us this morning.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
