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CNN Saturday Morning News

The Novak Zone: Interview With Cardinal Theodore McCarrik

Aired December 28, 2002 - 09:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And now, to "The Novak Zone." Today Bob Novak discusses the struggles facing the Catholic Church from both within and without with the archbishop of Washington, D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT NOVAK, HOST: Welcome to "The Novak Zone." I'm Robert Novak.

Our guest this week is the Roman Catholic archbishop of Washington, Cardinal Theodore McCarrick. We're at the cardinal's headquarters in Hyattsville, Maryland.

Your eminence, do you think, do you worry that Christmas has become so commercialized, it is so much a matter of how much shopping is done that Christ has been taken out of Christmas?

CARDINAL THEODORE MCCARRICK, ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON, D.C.: Well, I remember years ago Archbishop Fulton Sheen said we have to be careful that he who is lost in the temple doesn't get lost in the tinsel. And I remember that great line, must have heard it about 50 years ago. But I think it's always a danger if people can become so involved in commercial things. People can even become so involved in gift giving that the gift itself becomes the object of love and not the love that promotes the gift.

We have to make sure that Christmas is a time of love and a time of peace, and a time of great faith. If we do that, then the gifts fall into their proper perspective. But that's something we always have to work on. All churches have to work on that.

NOVAK: Do you think that the Christmas season we've just finished has been marred here in your archdiocese in Washington by the scandals and controversy involving sexual abuse in the church?

MCCARRICK: Well, I'm sure has it left its scars. Everything -- whenever something of that nature comes into a situation, it always leaves scars. But we've been so fortunate here in Washington that we -- we've had two cases, as you know, but we have been -- we have really been preserved basically because of what my predecessor, Cardinal Hickey (ph), did seven years ago when we did have trouble.

And he immediately made sure that we were not going to fall into this problem again, and that God forbid, if we did, we knew how to handle it. And I think that now that is true in the whole United States. I think the bishops have gotten the message, they have heard the cries of the people and the anger of the people, and I think we've responded.

NOVAK: Your eminence, there was a remarkable poll that was shown on CNN not long ago by the Gallup organization, and it's a question -- they said for the first time, Protestants are more likely to go to church than Catholics.

And the methodology they used is, Did you go to church in the last seven days? And in the spring of 2000, 53 percent of Catholics said they went to church in the last seven days, 45 percent of Protestants. But just recently that had turned around. Only 41 percent of Catholics had gone to church, 47 percent of Protestants.

Do you find church attendance is down in your diocese?

MCCARRICK: It's not up, but it's steady. And I think that's a great blessing, because I know that in other places I have served, you see a -- sometimes a decline. I think it's demographically related, though, and it's also related to sometimes we're not doing our job in the right way.

Bob, they say that the largest single denomination in the United States are Catholics, and the second largest are fallen-away Catholics, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Catholics who don't practice anymore. Well, then it's our job somehow to get those parts of our family back into the active practice of their faith.

NOVAK: What do you mean when you say it's demographically related?

MCCARRICK: Well, I think like when I was archbishop of Newark, neighborhoods that were very Irish or very Italian, sometimes they change. And other ethnic groups come in, Asian people come in, who are not Christian at all. And, therefore you -- the big churches that you had in those places no longer are filled because the people have moved out to some other place, sometimes another diocese, sometimes another part of your own diocese.

So I think you always have to take the statistics and find out where they are taking them, are they taking them nationwide, are they doing them more in cities, more in countries, or whatever?

NOVAK: The -- one more poll if I could cite it, Cardinal McCarrick, and that is the Gallup organization says four out of 10 Catholics now say they are less likely to contribute to the church. Is that true in your diocese? Do you find that billfolds have been zipped up?

MCCARRICK: We -- our people have been wonderful, Bob, this has been one of great gifts that I think I have from my predecessors, the Catholic people in Washington are extraordinary. And even the Cardinal's Appeal this year has gone up. So -- and the parishes have not found that to happen. And because we're in a recession, and Washington's been hit hard, too, because of the fallout from 9/11. But, thank God, our people have been very, very good and very, very generous and very, very faithful. And I think they are very good to me.

NOVAK: Your eminence, the Conference of American Bishops meeting made a statement on Iraq. Do you think, with all of the spiritual needs of Catholics in America, that this is something that ought to be concerning the bishops, a foreign policy question?

MCCARRICK: Well, it has to, because people are asking us. You know, the Catholic people and other people around the country say to us, What about this war? Should we go to war? Do you think we ought to go to war? And they look to us for moral guidance. And we're not generals, and we're not politicians, we're not statesmen, so our answers are not always going to be to the date and to the moment and to the exact question.

But at least we can say, these are -- this is the rule, these are the rules of just war, and these are the rules that should guide moral decision-making. And so that's why we get in.

I don't know how helpful we are, but we should try to be. It's our responsibility not just as religious people but as American religious people.

NOVAK: And now the big question for Cardinal McCarrick.

Your eminence, you have a unique position, one of the very few in the world, that you as a member of the College of Cardinals may be voting on the next pope. Do you think, sir, that it is time to go beyond Europe in the selection of a pope? There has been such growth in the church in Latin America, Asia, Africa. Do you think it's time for a pope from one of those regions?

MCCARRICK: Well, I think the Holy Spirit will be guiding the cardinals when -- and who knows when, it could be 10 years from now when this holy father completes his service and the church moves on to finding a successor.

It's hard to know, because the election of a pope is something that is in the hands of God, we think. And as you look at the great popes we have had in this century, I think that it's pretty sure that there is some divine inspiration to give us the extraordinary men we've had now.

The church has become more universal, surely. The church has been involved in definitions (ph) much more than it had been in the past. And so who knows what will happen? The present holy father was the first non-Italian in 500 years.

So cardinals are not allowed to speculate, you know, so I...

NOVAK: I thought I might trap you into it.

Thank you very much... MCCARRICK: Thank you, Bob.

NOVAK: ... Cardinal McCarrick.

MCCARRICK: It's good to be with you.

NOVAK: And thank you for joining us in "The Novak Zone."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





McCarrik>


Aired December 28, 2002 - 09:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And now, to "The Novak Zone." Today Bob Novak discusses the struggles facing the Catholic Church from both within and without with the archbishop of Washington, D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT NOVAK, HOST: Welcome to "The Novak Zone." I'm Robert Novak.

Our guest this week is the Roman Catholic archbishop of Washington, Cardinal Theodore McCarrick. We're at the cardinal's headquarters in Hyattsville, Maryland.

Your eminence, do you think, do you worry that Christmas has become so commercialized, it is so much a matter of how much shopping is done that Christ has been taken out of Christmas?

CARDINAL THEODORE MCCARRICK, ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON, D.C.: Well, I remember years ago Archbishop Fulton Sheen said we have to be careful that he who is lost in the temple doesn't get lost in the tinsel. And I remember that great line, must have heard it about 50 years ago. But I think it's always a danger if people can become so involved in commercial things. People can even become so involved in gift giving that the gift itself becomes the object of love and not the love that promotes the gift.

We have to make sure that Christmas is a time of love and a time of peace, and a time of great faith. If we do that, then the gifts fall into their proper perspective. But that's something we always have to work on. All churches have to work on that.

NOVAK: Do you think that the Christmas season we've just finished has been marred here in your archdiocese in Washington by the scandals and controversy involving sexual abuse in the church?

MCCARRICK: Well, I'm sure has it left its scars. Everything -- whenever something of that nature comes into a situation, it always leaves scars. But we've been so fortunate here in Washington that we -- we've had two cases, as you know, but we have been -- we have really been preserved basically because of what my predecessor, Cardinal Hickey (ph), did seven years ago when we did have trouble.

And he immediately made sure that we were not going to fall into this problem again, and that God forbid, if we did, we knew how to handle it. And I think that now that is true in the whole United States. I think the bishops have gotten the message, they have heard the cries of the people and the anger of the people, and I think we've responded.

NOVAK: Your eminence, there was a remarkable poll that was shown on CNN not long ago by the Gallup organization, and it's a question -- they said for the first time, Protestants are more likely to go to church than Catholics.

And the methodology they used is, Did you go to church in the last seven days? And in the spring of 2000, 53 percent of Catholics said they went to church in the last seven days, 45 percent of Protestants. But just recently that had turned around. Only 41 percent of Catholics had gone to church, 47 percent of Protestants.

Do you find church attendance is down in your diocese?

MCCARRICK: It's not up, but it's steady. And I think that's a great blessing, because I know that in other places I have served, you see a -- sometimes a decline. I think it's demographically related, though, and it's also related to sometimes we're not doing our job in the right way.

Bob, they say that the largest single denomination in the United States are Catholics, and the second largest are fallen-away Catholics, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Catholics who don't practice anymore. Well, then it's our job somehow to get those parts of our family back into the active practice of their faith.

NOVAK: What do you mean when you say it's demographically related?

MCCARRICK: Well, I think like when I was archbishop of Newark, neighborhoods that were very Irish or very Italian, sometimes they change. And other ethnic groups come in, Asian people come in, who are not Christian at all. And, therefore you -- the big churches that you had in those places no longer are filled because the people have moved out to some other place, sometimes another diocese, sometimes another part of your own diocese.

So I think you always have to take the statistics and find out where they are taking them, are they taking them nationwide, are they doing them more in cities, more in countries, or whatever?

NOVAK: The -- one more poll if I could cite it, Cardinal McCarrick, and that is the Gallup organization says four out of 10 Catholics now say they are less likely to contribute to the church. Is that true in your diocese? Do you find that billfolds have been zipped up?

MCCARRICK: We -- our people have been wonderful, Bob, this has been one of great gifts that I think I have from my predecessors, the Catholic people in Washington are extraordinary. And even the Cardinal's Appeal this year has gone up. So -- and the parishes have not found that to happen. And because we're in a recession, and Washington's been hit hard, too, because of the fallout from 9/11. But, thank God, our people have been very, very good and very, very generous and very, very faithful. And I think they are very good to me.

NOVAK: Your eminence, the Conference of American Bishops meeting made a statement on Iraq. Do you think, with all of the spiritual needs of Catholics in America, that this is something that ought to be concerning the bishops, a foreign policy question?

MCCARRICK: Well, it has to, because people are asking us. You know, the Catholic people and other people around the country say to us, What about this war? Should we go to war? Do you think we ought to go to war? And they look to us for moral guidance. And we're not generals, and we're not politicians, we're not statesmen, so our answers are not always going to be to the date and to the moment and to the exact question.

But at least we can say, these are -- this is the rule, these are the rules of just war, and these are the rules that should guide moral decision-making. And so that's why we get in.

I don't know how helpful we are, but we should try to be. It's our responsibility not just as religious people but as American religious people.

NOVAK: And now the big question for Cardinal McCarrick.

Your eminence, you have a unique position, one of the very few in the world, that you as a member of the College of Cardinals may be voting on the next pope. Do you think, sir, that it is time to go beyond Europe in the selection of a pope? There has been such growth in the church in Latin America, Asia, Africa. Do you think it's time for a pope from one of those regions?

MCCARRICK: Well, I think the Holy Spirit will be guiding the cardinals when -- and who knows when, it could be 10 years from now when this holy father completes his service and the church moves on to finding a successor.

It's hard to know, because the election of a pope is something that is in the hands of God, we think. And as you look at the great popes we have had in this century, I think that it's pretty sure that there is some divine inspiration to give us the extraordinary men we've had now.

The church has become more universal, surely. The church has been involved in definitions (ph) much more than it had been in the past. And so who knows what will happen? The present holy father was the first non-Italian in 500 years.

So cardinals are not allowed to speculate, you know, so I...

NOVAK: I thought I might trap you into it.

Thank you very much... MCCARRICK: Thank you, Bob.

NOVAK: ... Cardinal McCarrick.

MCCARRICK: It's good to be with you.

NOVAK: And thank you for joining us in "The Novak Zone."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





McCarrik>