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CNN Saturday Morning News
The Novak Zone: Interview With Dick Armey
Aired January 18, 2003 - 09:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It's time now for "The Novak Zone." Here's Bob.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT NOVAK, HOST: Welcome to "The Novak Zone."
I'm Robert Novak, in the headquarters of Citizens for a Sound Economy in Washington, D.C. Our guest is Dick Armey, the former majority leader of the U.S. House of Representatives, now co-chairman of the Citizens for a Sound Economy.
Thanks for being with us, Dick.
DICK ARMEY, CO-CHAIRMAN, CITIZENS FOR A SOUND ECONOMY: Oh, it's my pleasure, Bob.
NOVAK: Mr. Armey, you had a gripping piece in "The Wall Street Journal," an essay called "Citizen Armey," last week, where you suggested that you could make a useful contribution to life even though you were an ex-politician. Has anybody ever done that, gone out of the House of Representatives and been useful?
ARMEY: Well, I don't know, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), we'll find out. I'm sure there have been other members of Congress that have gone on.
But the idea that I can now be free to speak in total candor with complete conviction and no concern about, you know, political responsibilities, through Citizens for a Sound Economy on a fair and decent honest tax forum, real retirement security for all Americans across all generations, real education opportunity for all children in America, rich and poor alike, and never have to worry about the political ramifications but be an advocate before the nation of these ideas, which I think will make our nation a better nation with greater opportunity.
NOVAK: You call that the freedom agenda, and it boils down to tax reform, school choice, Social Security reform, and tort reform. And you said in your essay that those items on the freedom agenda had gone unrealized even though the -- your -- the House -- the Republicans are beginning their ninth year of control of the House of Representatives.
Explain to me how you could be more effective as a private citizen when you had all of the power and might of the House majority leader's job before, and you couldn't get these things done.
ARMEY: Well, as majority leader, your voice is only as strong as the -- that member of your conference that stands on the thinnest political ice. So that, in fact, I spoke up with fairly great conviction with the Citizens for a Sound Economy tour on the flat tax.
We need to be more able to stay focused on that issue and be more candid in our -- what shall I say, our criticism of the alternatives to the flat tax. On the whole question of retirement security, as you know, for Republicans, where I was the majority leader, that was the third rail of politics.
So every time you try to speak up on the subjects of something like the Dement plan, of real opportunities for real people to use their own savings in the private capital markets, you always had some members of your conference that were a little scared to talk about that.
In the end, it is ideas that govern. And I can be a more unqualified servant of ideas as a citizen outside of Congress than I can as a leader in the House of Representatives.
NOVAK: Can we say that the Republicans -- a lot of Republicans interested in getting reelected, interested in bringing home the bacon for their district, are not that much interested in the freedom agenda?
ARMEY: No, I don't think that's the case. I do think where in politics always, you have the old adage that the urgent crowds out the necessary. People need to tend to their districts' needs.
But at the same time, we have a great cadre of young, bright legislative entrepreneurs, people like Jim Dement, Jim Nussell (ph), Rob Portman, in the House of Representatives that are creative and do get things done that have a broader range than just the jurisdictional interests of their district.
NOVAK: Dick Armey, you created a great stir last year when you warned against or expressed reservations about an unprovoked attack on Iraq by the United States. I use the words "unprovoked" and the -- what, the difficulty that would bring. Then you later became convinced that it might be necessary.
Have you had any second or third thoughts about that, whether, in the absence of compelling evidence that Iraq is about to prove a threat, that this might be a problem for the United States if we attack them?
ARMEY: Well, I think there could be a problem. I don't think the world will judge us very lightly if we just sort of launch an attack without a proper world justification. The fact of the matter is, we -- when Congress authorized the authority for the president to liberate Iraq, we felt at the time he would have a sense of caution and discretion about actually exercising it.
I think the president has been very good in terms of giving Saddam Hussein a chance to come into compliance with U.N. resolutions and with -- which I would say, international standards of decent conduct. And should -- Saddam is just sort of skirting around the edge of that. So the ball really rests in his court.
NOVAK: Are you concerned that we may be endangering some of our basic freedoms in the interests of making the country safer from terrorism?
ARMEY: This is a major concern, worry of mine. I heard too many voices after 9/11 saying, in so many words, Our threat is so great, and the threat is so insidious, that it is time for America to compromise its devotion to individual liberties in order to be secure.
If you give up liberty in the interests of security, you're likely to end up with neither.
NOVAK: And now the big question for Dick Armey.
Mr. Armey, the Nobel Laureate economist Milton Friedman has said there never will be tax reform because of the symbiotic relationship between members of Congress and the lobbying community, which likes complexity in the tax system. How do you break that relationship?
ARMEY: Oh, it is tough, and that's why, when I reintroduced the flat tax in '94, I said we will make this the law when America beats Washington. Ninety percent of all of the people in the world that make their living out of tax complexity make it here in Washington, D.C.
America, those of us that's scattered across the country, people at Citizens for a Sound Economy who are addressing it, have got to say we require this change. Politicians have got to be more afraid to say no to America than they are to say no to the Washington -- what should I say, lobbying interests.
NOVAK: Thank you very much, citizen Dick Armey.
And thank you for being in "The Novak Zone."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 18, 2003 - 09:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It's time now for "The Novak Zone." Here's Bob.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT NOVAK, HOST: Welcome to "The Novak Zone."
I'm Robert Novak, in the headquarters of Citizens for a Sound Economy in Washington, D.C. Our guest is Dick Armey, the former majority leader of the U.S. House of Representatives, now co-chairman of the Citizens for a Sound Economy.
Thanks for being with us, Dick.
DICK ARMEY, CO-CHAIRMAN, CITIZENS FOR A SOUND ECONOMY: Oh, it's my pleasure, Bob.
NOVAK: Mr. Armey, you had a gripping piece in "The Wall Street Journal," an essay called "Citizen Armey," last week, where you suggested that you could make a useful contribution to life even though you were an ex-politician. Has anybody ever done that, gone out of the House of Representatives and been useful?
ARMEY: Well, I don't know, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), we'll find out. I'm sure there have been other members of Congress that have gone on.
But the idea that I can now be free to speak in total candor with complete conviction and no concern about, you know, political responsibilities, through Citizens for a Sound Economy on a fair and decent honest tax forum, real retirement security for all Americans across all generations, real education opportunity for all children in America, rich and poor alike, and never have to worry about the political ramifications but be an advocate before the nation of these ideas, which I think will make our nation a better nation with greater opportunity.
NOVAK: You call that the freedom agenda, and it boils down to tax reform, school choice, Social Security reform, and tort reform. And you said in your essay that those items on the freedom agenda had gone unrealized even though the -- your -- the House -- the Republicans are beginning their ninth year of control of the House of Representatives.
Explain to me how you could be more effective as a private citizen when you had all of the power and might of the House majority leader's job before, and you couldn't get these things done.
ARMEY: Well, as majority leader, your voice is only as strong as the -- that member of your conference that stands on the thinnest political ice. So that, in fact, I spoke up with fairly great conviction with the Citizens for a Sound Economy tour on the flat tax.
We need to be more able to stay focused on that issue and be more candid in our -- what shall I say, our criticism of the alternatives to the flat tax. On the whole question of retirement security, as you know, for Republicans, where I was the majority leader, that was the third rail of politics.
So every time you try to speak up on the subjects of something like the Dement plan, of real opportunities for real people to use their own savings in the private capital markets, you always had some members of your conference that were a little scared to talk about that.
In the end, it is ideas that govern. And I can be a more unqualified servant of ideas as a citizen outside of Congress than I can as a leader in the House of Representatives.
NOVAK: Can we say that the Republicans -- a lot of Republicans interested in getting reelected, interested in bringing home the bacon for their district, are not that much interested in the freedom agenda?
ARMEY: No, I don't think that's the case. I do think where in politics always, you have the old adage that the urgent crowds out the necessary. People need to tend to their districts' needs.
But at the same time, we have a great cadre of young, bright legislative entrepreneurs, people like Jim Dement, Jim Nussell (ph), Rob Portman, in the House of Representatives that are creative and do get things done that have a broader range than just the jurisdictional interests of their district.
NOVAK: Dick Armey, you created a great stir last year when you warned against or expressed reservations about an unprovoked attack on Iraq by the United States. I use the words "unprovoked" and the -- what, the difficulty that would bring. Then you later became convinced that it might be necessary.
Have you had any second or third thoughts about that, whether, in the absence of compelling evidence that Iraq is about to prove a threat, that this might be a problem for the United States if we attack them?
ARMEY: Well, I think there could be a problem. I don't think the world will judge us very lightly if we just sort of launch an attack without a proper world justification. The fact of the matter is, we -- when Congress authorized the authority for the president to liberate Iraq, we felt at the time he would have a sense of caution and discretion about actually exercising it.
I think the president has been very good in terms of giving Saddam Hussein a chance to come into compliance with U.N. resolutions and with -- which I would say, international standards of decent conduct. And should -- Saddam is just sort of skirting around the edge of that. So the ball really rests in his court.
NOVAK: Are you concerned that we may be endangering some of our basic freedoms in the interests of making the country safer from terrorism?
ARMEY: This is a major concern, worry of mine. I heard too many voices after 9/11 saying, in so many words, Our threat is so great, and the threat is so insidious, that it is time for America to compromise its devotion to individual liberties in order to be secure.
If you give up liberty in the interests of security, you're likely to end up with neither.
NOVAK: And now the big question for Dick Armey.
Mr. Armey, the Nobel Laureate economist Milton Friedman has said there never will be tax reform because of the symbiotic relationship between members of Congress and the lobbying community, which likes complexity in the tax system. How do you break that relationship?
ARMEY: Oh, it is tough, and that's why, when I reintroduced the flat tax in '94, I said we will make this the law when America beats Washington. Ninety percent of all of the people in the world that make their living out of tax complexity make it here in Washington, D.C.
America, those of us that's scattered across the country, people at Citizens for a Sound Economy who are addressing it, have got to say we require this change. Politicians have got to be more afraid to say no to America than they are to say no to the Washington -- what should I say, lobbying interests.
NOVAK: Thank you very much, citizen Dick Armey.
And thank you for being in "The Novak Zone."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
