Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Saturday Morning News

Weekend House Call: Teen Violence

Aired February 08, 2003 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: As we keep an eye on this morning's developing stories, we also want to focus on the issue of teen violence.
Joining us this week for our weekend house call is Dr. Drew Pinsky. Doctor Drew, as he is known by millions of fans of his nationally syndicated radio show "Love Line," is also a practicing physician, and it is great to have you with us.

I want to start by saying, I don't think any of us are going to forget for a very, very long time the terrible images in Colorado of the Columbine shooting.

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, "LOVELINE": You whispered to me, before we went on the air, that you actually covered those tragedies. That's the kind of thing we want to explore this morning, and what it is that makes someone do that, what is it about our society and our world that people come to that point, and what is that like. I mean, really, what goes on?

COLLINS: We will be talking a little bit, too, about parents and the role that parents have?

PINSKY: Absolutely. We'll talk about parents and what it is that sets this up, what the biological circumstances are. Listen, stories of acts of violence with our youth are too often headlines. And I think in this day and age, we've got to look at it very carefully and realistically, and figure out what exactly is behind all this.

COLLINS: OK, very good. Looking forward to that. "House Call" is coming up in just a few minutes. For now, we will be back. Right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Dr. Drew Pinsky joining us now. We're going into our "House Call" segment. Today, unfortunately, we're going to be talking about a tough subject, teen violence. But, as we were saying before the break, there are so many stories out there, that it's something we do have to talk about.

PINSKY: That's right, Heidi. Stories of violent acts committed by our youth are too often headlines. As you mentioned, many of the famous cases, such as the high school in Columbine, where Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, killed 12 students, one teacher, and wounded 20 others. And recently, amazingly, a woman in Riverside, California was killed by her two sons, age 20 and 15, saying that they were inspired by an episode of the HBO series "The Sopranos." They cut off their mother's head and hands.

Grim stories such as these make us take notice, but, on the whole, is youth violence a problem? A quick look at the statistics from the CDC will answer that question. According to a 2002 survey, 6 percent of high school students had carried a weapon. More than one- third had been in a physical fight. And homicide is the second leading cause of death among Americans age 10 to 19.

But despite these numbers, the problems have actually improved in recent years. This chart shows the rate of homicide committed by teens age 14 to 17. You can see that the rates started to rise in the late '80s and peaked about '93, where it was three times more common than it was in 1980. Since then, the rates have come back down a bit. But what caused the spike in the '90s and what is really behind these gruesome headlines? I want to really dig in, Heidi, I want to get behind it and talk about what is going through someone's mind, what sets this up, to find out what is at the heart of the problem.

Joining us now is Dr. Joseph Haraszti. He is a psychiatrist, primary specialty in the area of adolescent psychiatry. He is also an expert in forensic psychiatry. He is medical director of Los Encinas hospital in Los Angeles, California. He joins us from the CNN Los Angeles bureau. Thank you, Dr. Haraszti for joining us.

DR. JOSEPH HARASZTI, PSYCHIATRIST: Thank you.

PINSKY: What is behind this unbelievable behavior? How does it get set up?

HARASZTI: Well, Drew, there's not any single cause. There are multiple causes, and they all play a role, but there isn't anything that we could identify as a single cause. There are biological, there are social, and there are psychological factors.

PINSKY: Let me ask a question. We all heard Michael Jackson in an interview, I guess Friday night, this amazing history of profound abuse. And yet, Michael Jackson doesn't end up as a murderer, he ends up as Peter Pan. What are the cofactors to go together to make someone -- I imagine abuse is one of the big cofactors?

HARASZTI: Yes. Abuse is one of the big cofactors. Absolutely. There is a cycle of violence, there's intergenerational violence. Children who are exposed to seeing their parents, their mother abused. It's even if they just observe violence and they are not directly abused themselves. That has a tremendous impact on their psyche.

PINSKY: Is that a behavioral thing? Or is that some biological impact on the brain? Or are they both the same thing?

HARASZTI: They are both the same. There are some innate factors, and there are external, environmental factors. The two interplay and ultimately in response to a lot of different things; there's a theory about the frustration that leads to ultimate aggression. This combined with certain biological things in the brain, such as hormone levels, low levels of serotonin. Metabolized, for example.

PINSKY: Some become suicidal, some become violent against others.

Let's take an e-mail. It says, "In my experience, a spanking or a smacked hand is much more likely to modify a child's behavior than a "time-out" will. Could the lack of corporal punishment in grade schools and at home contribute to an increase in teen violence later?"

What do you think, Dr. Haraszti?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I feel Heidi whispering here next to me.

COLLINS: Heidi has just learned about time-out. I have a very young son who's only 2 years old, but we are doing the time-out thing now, because you figure you set up the behavior for later on.

PINSKY: Look, Dr. Haraszti, correct me if I'm right on this, but there is absolutely no intervention that is as bad as physical violence. In other words, that's the worst thing to do to a child is hit them.

HARASZTI: The worst thing you can do is hit them, but also emotional abuse, verbal abuse, verbal taunts. Loss of face. For example, the common denominator in the school shooting seems to be constant taunts and verbal abuse by others, and the buildup of frustration and eventually, the explosion in violence, which the best example is Columbine. But this is really a public health he epidemic.

PINSKY: We have a kindergarten teacher on the line. Her name is Joyce. Joyce, are you with us?

CALLER: Yes, I am. I appreciate the past couple of minutes. It's been wonderful hearing both of you speak. My comment is the link between what I experience as a kindergarten teacher, where a child would bump into someone and spin around and clobber them good, and say my mom said if anyone hit me, I could hit them back, or I could kick them back. When really, it had just been an accident. Time-out was a beautiful procedure that I used, and I know there isn't time to go into that.

PINSKY: There's a book out there called "Time-out for Toddlers" that tells you how to apply that technique. And it is a technique. It is a behavioral technique.

CALLER: It worked beautifully, because it was a misunderstanding that was resulting in violence. And giving them time to work together and discuss it while I could teach the rest of the room worked brilliantly. And then they came back as a team and reported their resolution.

PINSKY: Did you see more problems in the kids you saw smacking other kids? Did you see them as teenagers later?

CALLER: Well, that was my question. Then we have Columbine. And I know no teacher that taught bring guns to school and shoot people up. My question is where did that teaching, and teens finding it as a right way of life, where it did come from?

PINSKY: Joyce, that's an interesting question, and I think it goes right to the heart of the matter, whether or not what's in our environment, whether our social, and climate, our cultural climate, our media, influences this. Dr. Haraszti?

HARASZTI: I would be the last to participate in any kind of media bashing. I don't think that the media causes violence. I think media reflects what goes on in our culture and our society. It is not the cause of violence.

However, it has been shown in some studies that when children view violence over and over, whether in the media, whether in video games, there does seem to be a cumulative effect. Children, and also teens, tend to imitate. For instance, we have known, whenever there's a TV show on teen suicide, there's a rash of teen suicides after this. This has been shown in a number of studies.

PINSKY: And I imagine it really is just kids who are predisposed in some way and we then, Heidi, expose them to this material.

Thanks, Dr. Haraszti. We're going to keep asking these tough questions. We've got to go to break right now.

COLLINS: That's right, we do. I guess we just become desensitized.

PINSKY: Well, that's -- desensitization, I think you'll hear from Dr. Haraszti, is one of the issues.

COLLINS: We are going to take a quick break right now. Certainly we hit on a topic that's close to a lot of people, so we do want to take your e-mails and your phone calls. They keep pouring into us, so we appreciate that. We will hear from more of our viewers when we come back. Stick around, everybody.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Welcome back to our "Weekend House Call." Our hot topic today, teen violence. We are joined by Dr. Drew Pinsky. We appreciate you being here, very much.

You have an interesting perspective on this, as well. We were talking about my toddler, who has a long way to go before he hits the teenage years, but you have 10-year-old triplets!

PINSKY: Isn't that crazy?

COLLINS: It is crazy!

PINSKY: I earned this gray hair. COLLINS: Yes, you did. But you're kind of getting ready to go through this next phase?

PINSKY: Absolutely. Oh, my goodness. And you know, evidence is, really, you want to get kids early. We're going to talk a little bit later about the sort of epidemic proportions of the problems we have with teenagers, but the real issue is, get them by the time they're eight. That's really when you want to intervene.

Also joining us this morning is Dr. Joseph Haraszti, medical director of Las Encinas Hospital. We're going to go to a phone call to start out, Dr. Haraszti. This gentleman's name is Victor. He's calling from Florida. Victor, are you there?

CALLER: Yes, sir.

PINSKY: You had a question for us. Go right ahead.

CALLER: I have a teen, a 19-year-old, that he's always drinking and taking drugs, like benzodiazepine, and he gets very violent when he does that.

PINSKY: Xanabars, right?

CALLER: Xanabars.

PINSKY: Xanabars, unbelievable. One milligram Xanax tablet.

Dr. Haraszti, you know, I was looking at the statistics on violence, and it seems to sort of mirror what's happening with drug use in this country, to a certain extent. Do you think maybe amphetamine use plays a big role here?

HARASZTI: Yes. Definitely. Certain drugs have been associated with greater frequency in violent acts. Alcohol in low doses seems to have an increased effect because of this, in addition, on violence. At higher doses, of course, it's a lesser effect as a person becomes more intoxicated and less able to respond physically. However, cocaine, amphetamines, and the hallucinogens are most commonly associated in violet behavior. Especially in amphetamines.

PINSKY: Yes. I was going to say, Dr. Haraszti, David Smith at the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic in San Francisco came up with the term "speed kills" back in the '60s. He said he really never intended that to mean if you use speed you die, he meant that people on speed kill other people. Speed kills.

Victor, listen. I would just simply advise you to -- it's going to sound crazy, maybe, but you going to Al Anon, a family member going to Al Anon co-dependancy program, increases the probability that you're going to get the identified person in to recovery. Sounds like your son needs to be detoxed, needs to be in a hospital, needs to be thoroughly treated.

And that's really one of our points this morning, is that treatment works. If you identify a kid who's in trouble, treatment works. We know that now. I don't care if the child is 18 or a 15- year-old, get them to proper care. And it sounds like Victor's son really needs appropriate help.

We have Dean now, calling from Florida. Dean?

CALLER: Yes, good morning. In fact, this segues into my question, Dr. Drew, regarding speed kills. There are so many products that are over-the-counter that contain ephedra, and other things. Items such as Ritalin. I saw an increase in ages 2 to 6. So my question is, gentlemen, isn't that when our child's brain is starting the very formation? So aren't we truly taking away, perhaps, that mechanism by medicating them so early to where maybe later on they do acts of violence?

PINSKY: Let me tackle that a little bit, first. When I first saw the incidence of ADD being treated with stimulants increasing so rapidly, I thought, no wonder I'm seeing so many speed addicts, we're creating them young. But if you really look at this data, the fact is the kids that are treated actually turn out better. Dr. Haraszti, do you agree?

HARASZTI: Yes, that's absolutely true. I think the point is well made though, that perhaps we might be over diagnosing some children with ADD. However, when the diagnosis has been made correctly and accurately, stimulants can be very effective. And now we have a new drug available, which is a non stimulant medication that also seems to have a great deal of promise in the treatment of ADHD.

PINSKY: Is there any evidence that methamphetamine damages? We know it damages the brain. Is the kind of damage we're seeing from methamphetamines something that predisposes to the desensitization that is associated with violence?

HARASZTI: It may very well. Chronic methamphetamine use has all kinds of central nervous system effects, all kinds of brain effects. The increased violence may be one of them, yes. Organic brain disorders can cause violent behavior.

PINSKY: You bring up an interesting question. Is the fact that our ventilator sciences have advanced to the point that we're having premature kids live into adulthood. Are a lot of these kids brain- damaged from the early injuries, and is that where the violence is coming from? You can't really say, I guess.

HARASZTI: No. But, you know, the one thing we do know is that children who are born to mothers who are addicted to crack while the mother is pregnant, they have all kinds of behavioral problems and the tremendous amount of impulse behavior, impulsivity, that can translate into violence.

PINSKY: We have now Paulette calling us from Wisconsin. Paulette, you have a question?

CALLER: Yes, I'm not sure if it's really a question. It's a concern. I teach junior high in Wisconsin and I know that in the past, this has been addressed with music and teens, but I see the kids with the headphones on all of the time, and the lyrics to some of these songs are so bad. There's a song out right now, and I'm trying to figure out what the name of it is, but the lyrics are...

PINSKY: The Eminem song?

CALLER: ... mommy, I want to go out tonight. Mommy, I want to take a life. Mommy, I'll take the kitchen knife.

The music is awesome, and then when you listen to what these words are, could that not be an influence on our teens today?

PINSKY: Right. Dr. Haraszti, does that desensitize them, does that encourage them?

HARASZTI: Yes, well, one of the things that happens is that kids are very impressionable, that they learn, for example, "The Sopranos" episode translating into this particular incident. I don't think "The Sopranos" incident caused that to happen, but it certainly provided them with a new means of doing something. The desensitization is the other thing, where they see it over and over, after a while, it stops having a real emotional impact. And, finally, there's this inhibition. So they just lose the inhibition to perform some of these things, if they see it often enough. So there seems to be a cumulative effect to this. Yes, words are powerful and they can ultimately influence behavior.

PINSKY: Interesting. Thanks very much.

I really want to explore a little more, if we have any time left over, exactly what is that person like, who's cutting off his mother's head and hand? Are they gleeful? Are they dissociated? What does that state? We'll examine a little bit how they get into that state.

I'm afraid not, I'm going to have to say goodbye to Dr. Haraszti. Thanks Dr. Haraszti for joining us this morning. I will give final thoughts on abuse violence when we get back.

COLLINS: I want to touch on quickly, if we can when we get back, what a parent should do.

PINSKY: We need another hour on this.

COLLINS: We can get that, can't we? Come on, people!

PINSKY: Keep going.

COLLINS: We are going to be back in just a few minutes. Stay with us, everybody.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: We're back with our "Weekend House Call," and Dr. Drew Pinsky, we appreciate you being with us. The subject is teen violence.

PINSKY: We could go on all day. I want to get at, too, what is the state someone's in when they're doing that? Are they gleeful? Somebody's able to do that, that, to me, is suggesting profound biological changes.

COLLINS: Detached, wouldn't you think?

PINSKY: Dissociated, detached is the big issue, and maybe we'll do another show on that. One point I want to make is people do need to be aware of this and identify it in kids early and risk factors such as seeing kids hurt animals, erratic behavior, anything where they think --

COLLINS: Starting fires?

PINSKY: Another one. They think the kid might need evaluation. It's never too early. There's things that can be done. Let's go ahead and do them.

COLLINS: So parents, what? Keep your eyes open?

PINSKY: Keep your eyes open. Even if you have a 19, 20-year-old like Victor did, there is treatment available, and we ought to take advantage of that. We really should.

COLLINS: As far as treatment goes, just in case people have absolutely no idea where to go. We hear about these tough love, boot camp-type situations and psychiatrists. Where do they start?

PINSKY: So where do people go? The boot camp situation can work for some people. It's very risky. Probably just about as likely to go bad as to go good. I think the important thing is have a specialist who's trained to deal with the age group that you're dealing with, that is a mental health professional, and get a thorough, complete evaluation. You come up with a diagnosis, and you come up with a plan, and you follow the plan to the letter.


Aired February 8, 2003 - 08:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: As we keep an eye on this morning's developing stories, we also want to focus on the issue of teen violence.
Joining us this week for our weekend house call is Dr. Drew Pinsky. Doctor Drew, as he is known by millions of fans of his nationally syndicated radio show "Love Line," is also a practicing physician, and it is great to have you with us.

I want to start by saying, I don't think any of us are going to forget for a very, very long time the terrible images in Colorado of the Columbine shooting.

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, "LOVELINE": You whispered to me, before we went on the air, that you actually covered those tragedies. That's the kind of thing we want to explore this morning, and what it is that makes someone do that, what is it about our society and our world that people come to that point, and what is that like. I mean, really, what goes on?

COLLINS: We will be talking a little bit, too, about parents and the role that parents have?

PINSKY: Absolutely. We'll talk about parents and what it is that sets this up, what the biological circumstances are. Listen, stories of acts of violence with our youth are too often headlines. And I think in this day and age, we've got to look at it very carefully and realistically, and figure out what exactly is behind all this.

COLLINS: OK, very good. Looking forward to that. "House Call" is coming up in just a few minutes. For now, we will be back. Right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Dr. Drew Pinsky joining us now. We're going into our "House Call" segment. Today, unfortunately, we're going to be talking about a tough subject, teen violence. But, as we were saying before the break, there are so many stories out there, that it's something we do have to talk about.

PINSKY: That's right, Heidi. Stories of violent acts committed by our youth are too often headlines. As you mentioned, many of the famous cases, such as the high school in Columbine, where Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, killed 12 students, one teacher, and wounded 20 others. And recently, amazingly, a woman in Riverside, California was killed by her two sons, age 20 and 15, saying that they were inspired by an episode of the HBO series "The Sopranos." They cut off their mother's head and hands.

Grim stories such as these make us take notice, but, on the whole, is youth violence a problem? A quick look at the statistics from the CDC will answer that question. According to a 2002 survey, 6 percent of high school students had carried a weapon. More than one- third had been in a physical fight. And homicide is the second leading cause of death among Americans age 10 to 19.

But despite these numbers, the problems have actually improved in recent years. This chart shows the rate of homicide committed by teens age 14 to 17. You can see that the rates started to rise in the late '80s and peaked about '93, where it was three times more common than it was in 1980. Since then, the rates have come back down a bit. But what caused the spike in the '90s and what is really behind these gruesome headlines? I want to really dig in, Heidi, I want to get behind it and talk about what is going through someone's mind, what sets this up, to find out what is at the heart of the problem.

Joining us now is Dr. Joseph Haraszti. He is a psychiatrist, primary specialty in the area of adolescent psychiatry. He is also an expert in forensic psychiatry. He is medical director of Los Encinas hospital in Los Angeles, California. He joins us from the CNN Los Angeles bureau. Thank you, Dr. Haraszti for joining us.

DR. JOSEPH HARASZTI, PSYCHIATRIST: Thank you.

PINSKY: What is behind this unbelievable behavior? How does it get set up?

HARASZTI: Well, Drew, there's not any single cause. There are multiple causes, and they all play a role, but there isn't anything that we could identify as a single cause. There are biological, there are social, and there are psychological factors.

PINSKY: Let me ask a question. We all heard Michael Jackson in an interview, I guess Friday night, this amazing history of profound abuse. And yet, Michael Jackson doesn't end up as a murderer, he ends up as Peter Pan. What are the cofactors to go together to make someone -- I imagine abuse is one of the big cofactors?

HARASZTI: Yes. Abuse is one of the big cofactors. Absolutely. There is a cycle of violence, there's intergenerational violence. Children who are exposed to seeing their parents, their mother abused. It's even if they just observe violence and they are not directly abused themselves. That has a tremendous impact on their psyche.

PINSKY: Is that a behavioral thing? Or is that some biological impact on the brain? Or are they both the same thing?

HARASZTI: They are both the same. There are some innate factors, and there are external, environmental factors. The two interplay and ultimately in response to a lot of different things; there's a theory about the frustration that leads to ultimate aggression. This combined with certain biological things in the brain, such as hormone levels, low levels of serotonin. Metabolized, for example.

PINSKY: Some become suicidal, some become violent against others.

Let's take an e-mail. It says, "In my experience, a spanking or a smacked hand is much more likely to modify a child's behavior than a "time-out" will. Could the lack of corporal punishment in grade schools and at home contribute to an increase in teen violence later?"

What do you think, Dr. Haraszti?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I feel Heidi whispering here next to me.

COLLINS: Heidi has just learned about time-out. I have a very young son who's only 2 years old, but we are doing the time-out thing now, because you figure you set up the behavior for later on.

PINSKY: Look, Dr. Haraszti, correct me if I'm right on this, but there is absolutely no intervention that is as bad as physical violence. In other words, that's the worst thing to do to a child is hit them.

HARASZTI: The worst thing you can do is hit them, but also emotional abuse, verbal abuse, verbal taunts. Loss of face. For example, the common denominator in the school shooting seems to be constant taunts and verbal abuse by others, and the buildup of frustration and eventually, the explosion in violence, which the best example is Columbine. But this is really a public health he epidemic.

PINSKY: We have a kindergarten teacher on the line. Her name is Joyce. Joyce, are you with us?

CALLER: Yes, I am. I appreciate the past couple of minutes. It's been wonderful hearing both of you speak. My comment is the link between what I experience as a kindergarten teacher, where a child would bump into someone and spin around and clobber them good, and say my mom said if anyone hit me, I could hit them back, or I could kick them back. When really, it had just been an accident. Time-out was a beautiful procedure that I used, and I know there isn't time to go into that.

PINSKY: There's a book out there called "Time-out for Toddlers" that tells you how to apply that technique. And it is a technique. It is a behavioral technique.

CALLER: It worked beautifully, because it was a misunderstanding that was resulting in violence. And giving them time to work together and discuss it while I could teach the rest of the room worked brilliantly. And then they came back as a team and reported their resolution.

PINSKY: Did you see more problems in the kids you saw smacking other kids? Did you see them as teenagers later?

CALLER: Well, that was my question. Then we have Columbine. And I know no teacher that taught bring guns to school and shoot people up. My question is where did that teaching, and teens finding it as a right way of life, where it did come from?

PINSKY: Joyce, that's an interesting question, and I think it goes right to the heart of the matter, whether or not what's in our environment, whether our social, and climate, our cultural climate, our media, influences this. Dr. Haraszti?

HARASZTI: I would be the last to participate in any kind of media bashing. I don't think that the media causes violence. I think media reflects what goes on in our culture and our society. It is not the cause of violence.

However, it has been shown in some studies that when children view violence over and over, whether in the media, whether in video games, there does seem to be a cumulative effect. Children, and also teens, tend to imitate. For instance, we have known, whenever there's a TV show on teen suicide, there's a rash of teen suicides after this. This has been shown in a number of studies.

PINSKY: And I imagine it really is just kids who are predisposed in some way and we then, Heidi, expose them to this material.

Thanks, Dr. Haraszti. We're going to keep asking these tough questions. We've got to go to break right now.

COLLINS: That's right, we do. I guess we just become desensitized.

PINSKY: Well, that's -- desensitization, I think you'll hear from Dr. Haraszti, is one of the issues.

COLLINS: We are going to take a quick break right now. Certainly we hit on a topic that's close to a lot of people, so we do want to take your e-mails and your phone calls. They keep pouring into us, so we appreciate that. We will hear from more of our viewers when we come back. Stick around, everybody.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Welcome back to our "Weekend House Call." Our hot topic today, teen violence. We are joined by Dr. Drew Pinsky. We appreciate you being here, very much.

You have an interesting perspective on this, as well. We were talking about my toddler, who has a long way to go before he hits the teenage years, but you have 10-year-old triplets!

PINSKY: Isn't that crazy?

COLLINS: It is crazy!

PINSKY: I earned this gray hair. COLLINS: Yes, you did. But you're kind of getting ready to go through this next phase?

PINSKY: Absolutely. Oh, my goodness. And you know, evidence is, really, you want to get kids early. We're going to talk a little bit later about the sort of epidemic proportions of the problems we have with teenagers, but the real issue is, get them by the time they're eight. That's really when you want to intervene.

Also joining us this morning is Dr. Joseph Haraszti, medical director of Las Encinas Hospital. We're going to go to a phone call to start out, Dr. Haraszti. This gentleman's name is Victor. He's calling from Florida. Victor, are you there?

CALLER: Yes, sir.

PINSKY: You had a question for us. Go right ahead.

CALLER: I have a teen, a 19-year-old, that he's always drinking and taking drugs, like benzodiazepine, and he gets very violent when he does that.

PINSKY: Xanabars, right?

CALLER: Xanabars.

PINSKY: Xanabars, unbelievable. One milligram Xanax tablet.

Dr. Haraszti, you know, I was looking at the statistics on violence, and it seems to sort of mirror what's happening with drug use in this country, to a certain extent. Do you think maybe amphetamine use plays a big role here?

HARASZTI: Yes. Definitely. Certain drugs have been associated with greater frequency in violent acts. Alcohol in low doses seems to have an increased effect because of this, in addition, on violence. At higher doses, of course, it's a lesser effect as a person becomes more intoxicated and less able to respond physically. However, cocaine, amphetamines, and the hallucinogens are most commonly associated in violet behavior. Especially in amphetamines.

PINSKY: Yes. I was going to say, Dr. Haraszti, David Smith at the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic in San Francisco came up with the term "speed kills" back in the '60s. He said he really never intended that to mean if you use speed you die, he meant that people on speed kill other people. Speed kills.

Victor, listen. I would just simply advise you to -- it's going to sound crazy, maybe, but you going to Al Anon, a family member going to Al Anon co-dependancy program, increases the probability that you're going to get the identified person in to recovery. Sounds like your son needs to be detoxed, needs to be in a hospital, needs to be thoroughly treated.

And that's really one of our points this morning, is that treatment works. If you identify a kid who's in trouble, treatment works. We know that now. I don't care if the child is 18 or a 15- year-old, get them to proper care. And it sounds like Victor's son really needs appropriate help.

We have Dean now, calling from Florida. Dean?

CALLER: Yes, good morning. In fact, this segues into my question, Dr. Drew, regarding speed kills. There are so many products that are over-the-counter that contain ephedra, and other things. Items such as Ritalin. I saw an increase in ages 2 to 6. So my question is, gentlemen, isn't that when our child's brain is starting the very formation? So aren't we truly taking away, perhaps, that mechanism by medicating them so early to where maybe later on they do acts of violence?

PINSKY: Let me tackle that a little bit, first. When I first saw the incidence of ADD being treated with stimulants increasing so rapidly, I thought, no wonder I'm seeing so many speed addicts, we're creating them young. But if you really look at this data, the fact is the kids that are treated actually turn out better. Dr. Haraszti, do you agree?

HARASZTI: Yes, that's absolutely true. I think the point is well made though, that perhaps we might be over diagnosing some children with ADD. However, when the diagnosis has been made correctly and accurately, stimulants can be very effective. And now we have a new drug available, which is a non stimulant medication that also seems to have a great deal of promise in the treatment of ADHD.

PINSKY: Is there any evidence that methamphetamine damages? We know it damages the brain. Is the kind of damage we're seeing from methamphetamines something that predisposes to the desensitization that is associated with violence?

HARASZTI: It may very well. Chronic methamphetamine use has all kinds of central nervous system effects, all kinds of brain effects. The increased violence may be one of them, yes. Organic brain disorders can cause violent behavior.

PINSKY: You bring up an interesting question. Is the fact that our ventilator sciences have advanced to the point that we're having premature kids live into adulthood. Are a lot of these kids brain- damaged from the early injuries, and is that where the violence is coming from? You can't really say, I guess.

HARASZTI: No. But, you know, the one thing we do know is that children who are born to mothers who are addicted to crack while the mother is pregnant, they have all kinds of behavioral problems and the tremendous amount of impulse behavior, impulsivity, that can translate into violence.

PINSKY: We have now Paulette calling us from Wisconsin. Paulette, you have a question?

CALLER: Yes, I'm not sure if it's really a question. It's a concern. I teach junior high in Wisconsin and I know that in the past, this has been addressed with music and teens, but I see the kids with the headphones on all of the time, and the lyrics to some of these songs are so bad. There's a song out right now, and I'm trying to figure out what the name of it is, but the lyrics are...

PINSKY: The Eminem song?

CALLER: ... mommy, I want to go out tonight. Mommy, I want to take a life. Mommy, I'll take the kitchen knife.

The music is awesome, and then when you listen to what these words are, could that not be an influence on our teens today?

PINSKY: Right. Dr. Haraszti, does that desensitize them, does that encourage them?

HARASZTI: Yes, well, one of the things that happens is that kids are very impressionable, that they learn, for example, "The Sopranos" episode translating into this particular incident. I don't think "The Sopranos" incident caused that to happen, but it certainly provided them with a new means of doing something. The desensitization is the other thing, where they see it over and over, after a while, it stops having a real emotional impact. And, finally, there's this inhibition. So they just lose the inhibition to perform some of these things, if they see it often enough. So there seems to be a cumulative effect to this. Yes, words are powerful and they can ultimately influence behavior.

PINSKY: Interesting. Thanks very much.

I really want to explore a little more, if we have any time left over, exactly what is that person like, who's cutting off his mother's head and hand? Are they gleeful? Are they dissociated? What does that state? We'll examine a little bit how they get into that state.

I'm afraid not, I'm going to have to say goodbye to Dr. Haraszti. Thanks Dr. Haraszti for joining us this morning. I will give final thoughts on abuse violence when we get back.

COLLINS: I want to touch on quickly, if we can when we get back, what a parent should do.

PINSKY: We need another hour on this.

COLLINS: We can get that, can't we? Come on, people!

PINSKY: Keep going.

COLLINS: We are going to be back in just a few minutes. Stay with us, everybody.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: We're back with our "Weekend House Call," and Dr. Drew Pinsky, we appreciate you being with us. The subject is teen violence.

PINSKY: We could go on all day. I want to get at, too, what is the state someone's in when they're doing that? Are they gleeful? Somebody's able to do that, that, to me, is suggesting profound biological changes.

COLLINS: Detached, wouldn't you think?

PINSKY: Dissociated, detached is the big issue, and maybe we'll do another show on that. One point I want to make is people do need to be aware of this and identify it in kids early and risk factors such as seeing kids hurt animals, erratic behavior, anything where they think --

COLLINS: Starting fires?

PINSKY: Another one. They think the kid might need evaluation. It's never too early. There's things that can be done. Let's go ahead and do them.

COLLINS: So parents, what? Keep your eyes open?

PINSKY: Keep your eyes open. Even if you have a 19, 20-year-old like Victor did, there is treatment available, and we ought to take advantage of that. We really should.

COLLINS: As far as treatment goes, just in case people have absolutely no idea where to go. We hear about these tough love, boot camp-type situations and psychiatrists. Where do they start?

PINSKY: So where do people go? The boot camp situation can work for some people. It's very risky. Probably just about as likely to go bad as to go good. I think the important thing is have a specialist who's trained to deal with the age group that you're dealing with, that is a mental health professional, and get a thorough, complete evaluation. You come up with a diagnosis, and you come up with a plan, and you follow the plan to the letter.