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CNN Saturday Morning News

London May Have Biggest Anti-war Protest in Decades

Aired February 15, 2003 - 07:13   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN: Well, this morning we are tracking reaction to the Blix-ElBaradei report card on Iraq. You just heard from Mr. ElBaradei briefly.
Let's go to London now. Christopher Dickey is following the story for "Newsweek" magazine. Christopher, good -- well, I guess, good afternoon to you there in London, good to see you.

Give us a sense of the mood of the city.

CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, "NEWSWEEK" MAGAZINE: Well, I think there's a lot of expectation here. People are talking about the biggest demonstration in decades, maybe half a million people, conceivably even more. We don't see that many here behind us right now, but they're converging from several different points. So we'll see what happens.

O'BRIEN: Give us a sense -- the perception thus far has been that of all the potential allies out there, Britain is the staunchest for the U.S. Tony Blair this morning addressing some of the points that were brought forth in the United Nations yesterday, sort of hinting at the possibility that it might be necessary to allow a little more time for inspections. Is that a direct result of what we're going to see in the streets of London today?

DICKEY: Well, it certainly has an impact on what's going on, and what's going on has an impact on Blair's position. He's in a very weak position. His party's not behind him on this, his country's not behind him on this war. In fact, the European population generally, as I think we'll see today, is very much opposed to this war.

I'm not sure that that's a message that's really clear in the United States. It looks like it's just the Germans or just the French leadership. But in fact, there's just no support for this war as long as the inspections can continue to work.

O'BRIEN: Christopher, in postwar Europe, can you recall a rift this significant between the United States and European allies?

DICKEY: Well, I think there were major difficulties in the 1980s about the question of deploying cruise missiles, issues like that. And there was always a lot of tension in Germany about U.S. policy toward the Soviet Union. Was that confrontational? Would that turn Germany into a battlefield once again? But about a remote war, something that won't take place in Europe, bout something as distant as this, no, I think you'd have to go back to the Vietnam era to see this kind of dissension. And we've never seen this kind of division within NATO.

O'BRIEN: Help an American audience understand the depth of discontent there over this, and why Europeans are so reluctant to see the forcible disarming of Saddam Hussein.

DICKEY: Well, they're asking, What's the rush? basically. It's not that people want to see Saddam have weapons, it's not that they even want to see him in power. Most people would rather see him out, would really rather see him out.

But the problem is, they don't understand why, when you've got weapons inspectors looking in every corner of Iraq, why, when Iraq seems to be sort of cooperating, and you've got the weapons inspectors themselves saying there's room to maneuver, there's room to move forward, they're saying, Why rush to war? What's the imperative here? They say war should be a last resort, not part of a grand plan to remake the Middle East into something that nobody can really anticipate.

I think Europeans have a very strong sense that war always brings unpredictable results and very often makes things a lot worse, not a lot better.

O'BRIEN: As you've been talking, Christopher, we've seen some live pictures from Rome and now Paris, where there are -- at least to our camera's view, it seems as if significant numbers turning out. Does it really just boil down to a question of timing?

DICKEY: Well, I think timing is really the essential issue here. You hear a lot of discussion that makes it seem war-no war. Maybe for many of these people here -- you probably see placards behind us and elsewhere -- there's no war, war is never the solution. I don't think that's the general opinion. The general opinion is that there's no reason to rush to war right now. That's the position of the French, that's the position of most of the people polled in Europe, and many of the people polled in the United States.

So it is timing, I think, more than anything else.

O'BRIEN: A final thought here. Do you suppose that the report yesterday by Dr. Blix and Mr. ElBaradei to the United Nations is that buttressing the efforts of the antiwar protesters today? In other words, do they have new life as a result of what happened in New York yesterday?

DICKEY: Well, I think they probably do. I think certainly it weakened the Bush administration's position. What you have to understand is that under the United Nations resolution, Blix really has the power to determine whether there is war or peace. He doesn't need to wait for any set time. Any time he wants to, he can say, Iraq is in noncompliance, they're not playing ball, they're stonewalling, we've got to pull out, we've got to use other means. He didn't say that, very far from that. And until he does, I don't think there's going to be much backing for a war from the Europeans.

O'BRIEN: So it all pivots around Dr. Blix. Interesting. We'll be watching all of that very closely. Christopher Dickey, who looks at Europe for "Newsweek" magazine for us on occasion, we appreciate you being with us today on CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 15, 2003 - 07:13   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN: Well, this morning we are tracking reaction to the Blix-ElBaradei report card on Iraq. You just heard from Mr. ElBaradei briefly.
Let's go to London now. Christopher Dickey is following the story for "Newsweek" magazine. Christopher, good -- well, I guess, good afternoon to you there in London, good to see you.

Give us a sense of the mood of the city.

CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, "NEWSWEEK" MAGAZINE: Well, I think there's a lot of expectation here. People are talking about the biggest demonstration in decades, maybe half a million people, conceivably even more. We don't see that many here behind us right now, but they're converging from several different points. So we'll see what happens.

O'BRIEN: Give us a sense -- the perception thus far has been that of all the potential allies out there, Britain is the staunchest for the U.S. Tony Blair this morning addressing some of the points that were brought forth in the United Nations yesterday, sort of hinting at the possibility that it might be necessary to allow a little more time for inspections. Is that a direct result of what we're going to see in the streets of London today?

DICKEY: Well, it certainly has an impact on what's going on, and what's going on has an impact on Blair's position. He's in a very weak position. His party's not behind him on this, his country's not behind him on this war. In fact, the European population generally, as I think we'll see today, is very much opposed to this war.

I'm not sure that that's a message that's really clear in the United States. It looks like it's just the Germans or just the French leadership. But in fact, there's just no support for this war as long as the inspections can continue to work.

O'BRIEN: Christopher, in postwar Europe, can you recall a rift this significant between the United States and European allies?

DICKEY: Well, I think there were major difficulties in the 1980s about the question of deploying cruise missiles, issues like that. And there was always a lot of tension in Germany about U.S. policy toward the Soviet Union. Was that confrontational? Would that turn Germany into a battlefield once again? But about a remote war, something that won't take place in Europe, bout something as distant as this, no, I think you'd have to go back to the Vietnam era to see this kind of dissension. And we've never seen this kind of division within NATO.

O'BRIEN: Help an American audience understand the depth of discontent there over this, and why Europeans are so reluctant to see the forcible disarming of Saddam Hussein.

DICKEY: Well, they're asking, What's the rush? basically. It's not that people want to see Saddam have weapons, it's not that they even want to see him in power. Most people would rather see him out, would really rather see him out.

But the problem is, they don't understand why, when you've got weapons inspectors looking in every corner of Iraq, why, when Iraq seems to be sort of cooperating, and you've got the weapons inspectors themselves saying there's room to maneuver, there's room to move forward, they're saying, Why rush to war? What's the imperative here? They say war should be a last resort, not part of a grand plan to remake the Middle East into something that nobody can really anticipate.

I think Europeans have a very strong sense that war always brings unpredictable results and very often makes things a lot worse, not a lot better.

O'BRIEN: As you've been talking, Christopher, we've seen some live pictures from Rome and now Paris, where there are -- at least to our camera's view, it seems as if significant numbers turning out. Does it really just boil down to a question of timing?

DICKEY: Well, I think timing is really the essential issue here. You hear a lot of discussion that makes it seem war-no war. Maybe for many of these people here -- you probably see placards behind us and elsewhere -- there's no war, war is never the solution. I don't think that's the general opinion. The general opinion is that there's no reason to rush to war right now. That's the position of the French, that's the position of most of the people polled in Europe, and many of the people polled in the United States.

So it is timing, I think, more than anything else.

O'BRIEN: A final thought here. Do you suppose that the report yesterday by Dr. Blix and Mr. ElBaradei to the United Nations is that buttressing the efforts of the antiwar protesters today? In other words, do they have new life as a result of what happened in New York yesterday?

DICKEY: Well, I think they probably do. I think certainly it weakened the Bush administration's position. What you have to understand is that under the United Nations resolution, Blix really has the power to determine whether there is war or peace. He doesn't need to wait for any set time. Any time he wants to, he can say, Iraq is in noncompliance, they're not playing ball, they're stonewalling, we've got to pull out, we've got to use other means. He didn't say that, very far from that. And until he does, I don't think there's going to be much backing for a war from the Europeans.

O'BRIEN: So it all pivots around Dr. Blix. Interesting. We'll be watching all of that very closely. Christopher Dickey, who looks at Europe for "Newsweek" magazine for us on occasion, we appreciate you being with us today on CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com