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CNN Saturday Morning News
The Novak Zone: Interview With Rod Paige
Aired February 22, 2003 - 09:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: In President Bush's budget proposal, he earmarks more than $53 billion for the Department of Education. The man who will manage the money is Education Secretary Rod Paige, who sat down with our Robert Novak in "The Novak Zone."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT NOVAK, HOST: Welcome to "The Novak Zone."
I'm Robert Novak from the U.S. Department of Education headquarters in Washington, D.C. My guest is the secretary of education, Roderick Paige.
Mr. Secretary, the Congress specifically ruled out school choice, school vouchers, from the leave-nobody-behind education bill in the first two years of the Bush administration. Yet President Bush is asking in the new budget for $756 million to provide private and parochial school education for individuals. Can you explain that inconsistency?
ROD PAIGE, SECRETARY OF EDUCATION: Well, let me say that, first of all, that school choice, I think, is a necessary condition for authentic school reform. In other words, schools are not going to be reformed until we get school choice.
What is different about what the president has recommended now is that we're going to get accountability for the spending. Heretofore, I don't think we've had much accountability.
NOVAK: But if the Congress turned it down, how come they have the money in the budget? I guess is what I'm asking.
PAIGE: If the -- well, this is a new Congress that we see now, and I hope that we'll be able to make more progress. I think we made some progress, great progress on the No Child Left Behind, but choice is a matter whose time has come, and it's time for us now to really move forward much more aggressively about choice.
We cannot pin students to schools that are not helping them.
NOVAK: In other words, you're saying that if the public schools are not working, that the parent should have an option.
PAIGE: Absolutely. Unequivocally, the parent should have an option. No parent should have that child tied to a school that's not serving them well. NOVAK: Now, here in the District of Columbia, there's been a big problem with public schools, and the president is proposing a $75 million trial program on school choice, trying to provide education, if the local authorities in the District of Columbia approve it. Now, I understand the mayor, Anthony Williams, is against it. Is that correct?
PAIGE: I understand that to be the case. But this is not about the mayor and some others, it's about students. And so what the Congress is going to do and what the president is going to do is keep the students in their minds. And the students, we think, would be benefited by choice.
KARL: So you're going to go ahead with the D.C. program even if the mayor doesn't want it there?
PAIGE: We're going to be moving forward with that program, yes.
KARL: Now, can you explain to me, Mr. Secretary, why it is that these politicians, that the school boards -- School Board Association of America had a statement the other day in opposition to your program. Why are they so opposed to a school choice program?
PAIGE: Well, I think it's a mixture of different reasons. One reason, I think, is a lack of understanding. School choice helps public schools, yet they're arguing the opposite. The research that's in now, it's real clear that when schools have choice, schools perform better, not only for the kids who leave the school and go to the other site, but also to the students who remain.
So school choice is good for public schools.
NOVAK: Now, the argument made by the critics, almost exact -- all use the same word, that it's going to drain money from public schools, put it into private and parochial schools. How do you answer that?
PAIGE: Well, first of all, the money is not for the school. The money is for the child. Critics would say, We want to protect a system. That's choosing a system above the child. The -- for example, the Constitution in Texas has a phrase that goes something like this, Every Texas child is due a free and appropriate education at public expense.
And so whether that comes through a system operated by private schools, or charter schools, or cyberschools, or what we call our public schools, it is still a public education. Public education is a concept, not a construct.
NOVAK: Would you say that this means that there will be less money for public schools?
PAIGE: No, I don't think so. I think it will be more money for children, and the money that is spent would be getting better results, especially for minority kids. NOVAK: As far as I know, a school referendum has never passed. It was defeated in California, it was defeated a few years ago in Michigan. Why is that?
PAIGE: I think it's been explained wrong. And what -- and most people focus on the child who has the voucher and goes to a different site. And they say that's taking money away from the public schools. And we've had 200 or more years of endearment with public schools, and they miss the point that this helps public schools, because what is going to happen is the public school is going to respond by getting better.
Competitions make schools better and make systems better. Monopolies don't work.
NOVAK: Now, there has been reports, and analytical reports, that the middle-class white suburbanite is opposed to this program. Why is that?
PAIGE: Well, I think that's -- a little of that is still there, and I think that they are opposed because they don't want to change the ethnic makeup of the communities that they have. So a little of that is there, and we just have to work through that.
NOVAK: That's a little racist, isn't it?
PAIGE: All right, absolutely.
NOVAK: And there is great support in the African-American community for this program, isn't there?
PAIGE: Yes, and growing support in the African-American community, because African-American (UNINTELLIGIBLE) want their children to have an excellent education. And I think they're getting a little sick and tired of the leadership regarding their education by capturing, keeping their students captured in schools that are not serving them well.
NOVAK: And now the big question for Secretary of Education Roderick Paige.
Mr. Secretary, the Democrats on the Hill are saying that you passed the leave-no-child-behind bill, but you're not funding it because of the tax cuts for the rich. What's your answer to that?
PAIGE: I think that's a -- almost an absurd statement. There is more money for the public education and for the No Child Left Behind Act than ever before in the history of mankind. And it's just some rhetoric that we're going to have to contend with as we go forward.
But the funding is adequate for the bill. And so far, we should be concerned about the lack of getting results from the money we spent in the past. That's what they should concentrate on.
NOVAK: We're almost out of time, but I have a quick personal question for you. Do you ever wish, after more than two years of dealing with this huge federal government, you were back running the Houston public schools?
PAIGE: Well, I loved running the Houston public schools, but I'm getting dug in on this issue now, and I think we can make some progress here.
NOVAK: Thank you very much, Secretary of Education Roderick Paige.
And thank you for being in "The Novak Zone."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 22, 2003 - 09:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: In President Bush's budget proposal, he earmarks more than $53 billion for the Department of Education. The man who will manage the money is Education Secretary Rod Paige, who sat down with our Robert Novak in "The Novak Zone."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT NOVAK, HOST: Welcome to "The Novak Zone."
I'm Robert Novak from the U.S. Department of Education headquarters in Washington, D.C. My guest is the secretary of education, Roderick Paige.
Mr. Secretary, the Congress specifically ruled out school choice, school vouchers, from the leave-nobody-behind education bill in the first two years of the Bush administration. Yet President Bush is asking in the new budget for $756 million to provide private and parochial school education for individuals. Can you explain that inconsistency?
ROD PAIGE, SECRETARY OF EDUCATION: Well, let me say that, first of all, that school choice, I think, is a necessary condition for authentic school reform. In other words, schools are not going to be reformed until we get school choice.
What is different about what the president has recommended now is that we're going to get accountability for the spending. Heretofore, I don't think we've had much accountability.
NOVAK: But if the Congress turned it down, how come they have the money in the budget? I guess is what I'm asking.
PAIGE: If the -- well, this is a new Congress that we see now, and I hope that we'll be able to make more progress. I think we made some progress, great progress on the No Child Left Behind, but choice is a matter whose time has come, and it's time for us now to really move forward much more aggressively about choice.
We cannot pin students to schools that are not helping them.
NOVAK: In other words, you're saying that if the public schools are not working, that the parent should have an option.
PAIGE: Absolutely. Unequivocally, the parent should have an option. No parent should have that child tied to a school that's not serving them well. NOVAK: Now, here in the District of Columbia, there's been a big problem with public schools, and the president is proposing a $75 million trial program on school choice, trying to provide education, if the local authorities in the District of Columbia approve it. Now, I understand the mayor, Anthony Williams, is against it. Is that correct?
PAIGE: I understand that to be the case. But this is not about the mayor and some others, it's about students. And so what the Congress is going to do and what the president is going to do is keep the students in their minds. And the students, we think, would be benefited by choice.
KARL: So you're going to go ahead with the D.C. program even if the mayor doesn't want it there?
PAIGE: We're going to be moving forward with that program, yes.
KARL: Now, can you explain to me, Mr. Secretary, why it is that these politicians, that the school boards -- School Board Association of America had a statement the other day in opposition to your program. Why are they so opposed to a school choice program?
PAIGE: Well, I think it's a mixture of different reasons. One reason, I think, is a lack of understanding. School choice helps public schools, yet they're arguing the opposite. The research that's in now, it's real clear that when schools have choice, schools perform better, not only for the kids who leave the school and go to the other site, but also to the students who remain.
So school choice is good for public schools.
NOVAK: Now, the argument made by the critics, almost exact -- all use the same word, that it's going to drain money from public schools, put it into private and parochial schools. How do you answer that?
PAIGE: Well, first of all, the money is not for the school. The money is for the child. Critics would say, We want to protect a system. That's choosing a system above the child. The -- for example, the Constitution in Texas has a phrase that goes something like this, Every Texas child is due a free and appropriate education at public expense.
And so whether that comes through a system operated by private schools, or charter schools, or cyberschools, or what we call our public schools, it is still a public education. Public education is a concept, not a construct.
NOVAK: Would you say that this means that there will be less money for public schools?
PAIGE: No, I don't think so. I think it will be more money for children, and the money that is spent would be getting better results, especially for minority kids. NOVAK: As far as I know, a school referendum has never passed. It was defeated in California, it was defeated a few years ago in Michigan. Why is that?
PAIGE: I think it's been explained wrong. And what -- and most people focus on the child who has the voucher and goes to a different site. And they say that's taking money away from the public schools. And we've had 200 or more years of endearment with public schools, and they miss the point that this helps public schools, because what is going to happen is the public school is going to respond by getting better.
Competitions make schools better and make systems better. Monopolies don't work.
NOVAK: Now, there has been reports, and analytical reports, that the middle-class white suburbanite is opposed to this program. Why is that?
PAIGE: Well, I think that's -- a little of that is still there, and I think that they are opposed because they don't want to change the ethnic makeup of the communities that they have. So a little of that is there, and we just have to work through that.
NOVAK: That's a little racist, isn't it?
PAIGE: All right, absolutely.
NOVAK: And there is great support in the African-American community for this program, isn't there?
PAIGE: Yes, and growing support in the African-American community, because African-American (UNINTELLIGIBLE) want their children to have an excellent education. And I think they're getting a little sick and tired of the leadership regarding their education by capturing, keeping their students captured in schools that are not serving them well.
NOVAK: And now the big question for Secretary of Education Roderick Paige.
Mr. Secretary, the Democrats on the Hill are saying that you passed the leave-no-child-behind bill, but you're not funding it because of the tax cuts for the rich. What's your answer to that?
PAIGE: I think that's a -- almost an absurd statement. There is more money for the public education and for the No Child Left Behind Act than ever before in the history of mankind. And it's just some rhetoric that we're going to have to contend with as we go forward.
But the funding is adequate for the bill. And so far, we should be concerned about the lack of getting results from the money we spent in the past. That's what they should concentrate on.
NOVAK: We're almost out of time, but I have a quick personal question for you. Do you ever wish, after more than two years of dealing with this huge federal government, you were back running the Houston public schools?
PAIGE: Well, I loved running the Houston public schools, but I'm getting dug in on this issue now, and I think we can make some progress here.
NOVAK: Thank you very much, Secretary of Education Roderick Paige.
And thank you for being in "The Novak Zone."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
